Up next in 10
Liz Patt took a spin in the hosting chair for the first time this week, with Joe and Liz and Cory on board to keep her on her toes. The raid schedule for Midnight is enough to keep anyone on their toes, not to mention Mythic dungeons, Delves, and ABUNDANCE. Not everyone is a fan of ABUNDANCE, for technical reasons, though it's been adjusted a bit to try to cut down on the lag. If that wasn't enough, we also have a ton of new information about patch 12.0.5, including a Dave the Diver-like spearfishing adventure.
With Liz Patt hosting, the Diablo franchise was given its due, with season 12 starting, and more information about Lord of Hatred. The crew is bemused at another step Diablo 4 is taking to be more like Diablo 3, which actually has a seasonal rollover coming soon. They remembered to flick the drinky bird.
We also had some indie news. The Subnautica 2 lawsuit just wrapped, and the details are so, so stupid. We also talked a bit about former Overwatch developer Jeff Kaplan's new project, The Legend of California. We're also excited to see what dinoflask makes of the announcement of the open world western, and Jeff's 10 hour long "development and chill" stream.
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Show More Show Less View Video Transcript
0:10
Hello and welcome to the Blizzard Watch
0:13
podcast. I am Liz Pat, one of the
0:16
writers for Blizzard who has decided to
0:19
curse you all with my ongoing work. I'm
0:22
just kidding. But I am taking over uh
0:24
hosting duties for tonight so that our
0:27
uh beloved uh main hosts Joe and Liz H
0:32
can get some breathing space. Say hello
0:36
beloved hosts.
0:38
>> Hello beloved hosts.
0:41
In addition, we are uh blessed with one
0:45
of our voices from the frozen north
0:47
whose devotion to Heroes of the Storm uh
0:51
I think rivals most other folks. Corey,
0:54
say hi.
0:56
>> Hi there. They keep I keep sneaking in.
0:58
They keep letting me stay
1:00
>> because we love you.
1:00
>> It's because if you're here and you rant
1:03
about Heroes of the Storm, it means I'm
1:05
not alone. So, I'm not I don't look as
1:07
crazy. This is This is all calculated.
1:09
Ah, of course it's all so clear now.
1:12
>> Just uh just picture Joe in front of his
1:15
uh Charlie Day uh Mad Theory Silva.
1:20
Yeah, sorry.
1:23
>> But uh instead of uh cultural references
1:28
of the TV variety, instead we're here to
1:30
talk about video games. And the first
1:33
one we're going to start with is World
1:34
of Warcraft because Midnight Season 1
1:38
started March 17th. And uh friends, the
1:43
raid release schedule is a little
1:46
offthe-wall, a little bonkers,
1:48
>> something we've not seen before. But
1:51
>> no, tell us why you hate it, Joe. I am a
1:56
firm believer in I don't like staggered
1:59
rollouts for raid content when it comes
2:02
to normals and and or or in this case
2:06
what raids are available because there
2:07
are going to be three raids this tier uh
2:10
three individual locations that you must
2:12
go to
2:13
>> and I don't
2:14
>> what did this happen?
2:15
>> Yeah, I I am I am not a fan of it. Um,
2:19
>> so right now we get uh the normal heroic
2:23
and raidfinder version of the voidspire
2:26
raid. Um, which or no I think it's just
2:30
the normal version, right? Mythic is No,
2:32
is it three?
2:33
>> Normal normal heroic and the first wing
2:35
of LFR are this week.
2:37
>> Yeah. And then like we get the next one
2:41
on the 24th, so the week after today of
2:45
the time of this recording. Uh which
2:47
will be Mythic Dream Rift, Mythic Void
2:49
Spire.
2:50
>> Um and then Yeah, like Sorry. Go ahead,
2:53
Liz.
2:53
>> Uh and uh story mode is next week as
2:57
well, I think.
2:58
>> Yep. And then we have to wait until
3:00
>> And then we have to wait till March. It
3:03
is nice to have story mode. Uh, but we
3:04
have to wait till March 31st to get the
3:06
march on Quel Das. Like again, this this
3:10
feels weird to me. I don't know. I don't
3:13
like staggered roses like this. Just
3:14
make all normal available. Make story
3:16
mode available. Like I don't understand
3:18
why that has to be gated. Um,
3:21
>> like maybe it has to do with the quests
3:23
and quest rewards that are available,
3:24
but like
3:25
>> come on. I do wonder I do wonder if
3:28
that's part of the story mode delay
3:30
because they are rolling out uh a weekly
3:33
story quest and maybe it's just next
3:36
week we're going to hit the conclusion
3:38
of that story quest which will send you
3:40
to story mode version of the raid.
3:42
>> But I mean we'll see. When you're
3:44
rolling out patches as consistently as
3:47
they have been, they could easily easily
3:50
easily have integrated the mini raids
3:53
into your off majors. So 05 and 07
3:57
progresses the story a little more, a
3:59
little more, and lines you up for 12.1.
4:02
And then you have much more drawn out
4:05
longer engagement than
4:08
>> It's true,
4:09
>> a spike and then a drop. So, I think my
4:12
my counter argument to that though and
4:14
and I understand that the the the player
4:16
engagement is a metric that they still
4:18
care about. I understand that.
4:20
>> But there's so much content going on
4:22
right now.
4:23
>> You you get to and literally we were
4:25
talking about this in in guild. I I
4:26
logged in a little bit earlier cuz I'm
4:28
still trying to finish leveling my my
4:30
druid and we can talk about that later
4:32
because I have thoughts on that as well
4:34
which are good and bad. Um they were
4:36
talking about like there is a choice
4:38
paralysis happening. there is so much to
4:41
do
4:42
>> that like you know and I I'll say it
4:44
like our our friend Lamort was talking
4:46
about
4:47
>> I am completely overwhelmed by all of
4:50
the things that I am able to do right
4:52
now
4:53
>> and when when players are feeling like
4:55
that you don't need to a stagger content
4:58
anymore because the dangling effect
5:01
doesn't really matter because there's no
5:02
content drought essentially right now um
5:06
>> you the players have too much to do so
5:09
Like if there was not enough to do, I
5:11
can understand maybe stretching out that
5:12
player engagement, making people, you
5:14
know, stay subscribed longer, dangle the
5:17
content, but it's really not the problem
5:20
right now. So that I I don't know, like
5:23
it just it feels like at least right
5:25
this second with everything we're able
5:27
to do in Midnight, it doesn't need to be
5:30
staggered.
5:31
>> It's not even staggered that much. It's
5:33
it's weird that they would stagger it at
5:35
all because it's it's three weeks
5:37
really.
5:38
>> Yeah. Yeah, two. Yeah, pretty much.
5:40
>> Which is basically nothing for a two
5:42
boss raid.
5:43
>> I Yeah, I do wonder if they're
5:45
staggering it in part for narrative
5:47
reasons to to line up with the quests.
5:50
You know, Quelton is obviously going to
5:54
be a big story beat and I'm looking
5:56
forward to seeing that one. But I mean,
5:58
maybe that
6:00
>> I maybe I am willing to give the benefit
6:02
of the doubt and say maybe that needed
6:04
to be spaced out a little narratively.
6:06
And Blizzard, even though they space
6:08
this stuff out, Blizzard has been uh
6:11
putting stuff closer together. They
6:13
haven't been spacing it out as much as
6:14
they used to because
6:16
it used to be the norm for Blizzard to
6:18
roll out, you know, your normals and
6:20
your heroics and then like two weeks
6:22
later an LFR and then two weeks after
6:25
that a second wing of LFR and two weeks
6:28
after that uh a third wing of LFR and
6:30
sometimes there's a fourth wing. So you
6:33
would wind up LFR wouldn't release until
6:35
like 6 weeks after the full raid
6:38
>> and that was really lame. Now they're
6:42
spacing them out a week apart. And I do
6:44
think there's there's some value in not
6:48
rolling out so much content that players
6:51
are going to kill themselves over. You
6:53
know, I I just mean that players are
6:56
going to feel like, "Oh, there's so much
6:57
content. I have to do it all right now.
6:58
Oh, I have to do all the wings of LFR
7:01
right now, today, immediately. And cuz
7:04
content can be overwhelming and
7:06
sometimes sometimes it can be better to
7:08
staggered out just so players have a
7:10
it's a little more bite-sized for
7:11
players. But even saying that, and even
7:14
with it staggered out over the course of
7:16
the month, there's a lot happening right
7:19
now, one of the most confusing parts of
7:22
this roll out, I think, is uh the Mythic
7:24
Plus roll out.
7:26
>> Yeah. Well, yes and no. I I we we let's
7:29
talk about it. You gave your stuff.
7:30
>> It's like we had Mythic Zeros, but they
7:33
were non-seasonal mythic zeros.
7:35
>> So, they're just Mythic Zero versions of
7:38
the Midnight Raids. But now Midnight
7:40
Season 1 has started. So, we have
7:42
>> dungeons dungeons. Sorry, not raids,
7:44
dungeons.
7:45
>> Um, but now Midnight Season 1 has
7:47
started, so we have mythic zero of the
7:51
seasonal raids. So, not not necessarily.
7:55
Oh my gosh. I thank you so much. Thank
7:58
you, Joe. I
8:01
So, we have Mythic Zero of the seasonal
8:04
dungeons, which are not all midnight
8:07
dungeons because they
8:09
Blizzard mixes and matches some dungeons
8:11
in here,
8:12
>> but we only So, the season has started,
8:15
but we only have Mythic Zeros this week.
8:18
It's next week for Mythic Pluses. And I
8:20
think that's I I think that's left some
8:22
confusion. I don't think uh I don't
8:25
think Blizzard usually staggers the
8:27
Mythic Plus schedule quite like this.
8:29
Okay, then I it's just me who's
8:31
confused. It's only me. That's fine.
8:33
>> No, no. It can be confusing. And the the
8:35
biggest point of confusion, this is
8:37
something that a lot of players have
8:37
really commented on as well is when a
8:42
new expansion drops and you have mythic
8:45
uh dungeons available, you have that uh
8:49
expansions dungeons all available as
8:51
mythic zeros. Then when the season
8:53
starts, you have your mythic zeros for
8:55
that season, which excludes uh some of
8:59
the dungeons from the current expansion
9:02
and then inserts several of older ones,
9:05
in this case, four and four split. Um,
9:07
so in in for midnight the schedule or
9:10
the the available pool is Magister's
9:13
Terrace, the new one, the midnight
9:14
version. Uh, uh, Mysara Caverns, Nexus
9:18
Point, Zenus, Windrunner Spire, and then
9:21
you, those are the new ones. And then
9:22
the old ones are Agathar Academy from
9:24
Dragonfly, which I love that. I love
9:26
that. I will run that all day long. Uh,
9:28
Seed of the Trium from Legion, Sky Reach
9:31
from Warlords of Drainer, which that's a
9:34
wild pick for me. and my nemesis, Pit of
9:36
Sauron from Wrath of the Lich King. Now,
9:39
the idea of making that pool available
9:42
as Mythic Zeros before keys start being
9:44
available makes perfect sense to me.
9:47
>> Go, especially with old dungeons that
9:49
are being revamped or retuned for the
9:51
current game. Here are your new pool. Go
9:54
see what the new changes are. Go see
9:56
what the new paths are. go see where the
9:58
new uh mobs are so that you don't like
10:01
accidentally pull 8,000 leaping ghouls
10:04
from the middle of the pit of Saron into
10:06
the boss encounter that wasn't in sorry.
10:08
Um and then when you go into keys you're
10:11
you're a little more prepared for it. So
10:13
that that part makes sense at least to
10:15
me. The part that I don't think it makes
10:18
a whole lot of sense is taking away the
10:21
rest of the dungeons as like
10:24
I I don't want to say like as mythic
10:25
zeros cuz I think they're still
10:27
technically there but not advertising
10:29
that they're still there and just saying
10:31
hey all these are still available as
10:33
mythic zeros but these new ones are
10:36
these four and these four are going to
10:37
be your keys this this season go forth
10:41
like they could be a little more clear
10:43
in their communication about it
10:45
>> but It does make in my opinion it does
10:48
make sense in the staggered roll out for
10:51
this particular set of content.
10:53
>> Now you know what doesn't make sense to
10:55
me though that our beloved
10:58
abundance has seen a nerf.
11:00
>> Good. Maybe less people are running I'll
11:02
have less world lag. Sorry.
11:06
>> I've seen so many not be less abundant
11:08
though.
11:09
>> For everything there is a season.
11:11
>> For everything there is a season. And
11:13
unfortunately, it's no longer the season
11:15
of abundance. Um although I believe uh
11:18
the hat is still is still a common uh
11:22
reward. Uh everybody was talking about
11:25
that earlier or at least I saw Anna and
11:27
Liz talking about that earlier. Uh but
11:31
the nerfs look to be there's still uh no
11:36
confirmation in patch notes. So, this is
11:39
all, I guess you could say, word of
11:41
mouth, uh, that abundance orbs are
11:44
shared amongst players and despawn
11:47
quicker. So, it makes getting to the cap
11:51
inconsistent. And for something where
11:53
you're you're burning a key, or not
11:57
really a key, but like there's a trigger
12:00
to the abundance uh, setup. uh using the
12:03
shard, you know, you don't you don't
12:05
want to see it
12:07
>> drop off. Although, you know, maybe it's
12:10
maybe it's just a perception. It's not
12:12
everybody. Has anybody uh run an
12:15
abundant abundance? Gosh, it's really
12:19
hard to say that clearly.
12:21
>> No, but I I'll I'll call out Flanigan in
12:23
chat who uh just had a hecking great
12:25
abundance. Um, so like players are still
12:29
having very very
12:31
>> good abundances. I think
12:33
>> um unpopular opinion and I can see
12:36
people from staff probably trying to
12:37
come for me. Please don't murder me.
12:39
>> I'm glad they nerfed this.
12:41
>> Um, I noticed an immediate change in
12:43
world lag.
12:44
>> Um, especially because the orbs being
12:47
shared amongst players is huge. The
12:50
server load of all of those objects
12:52
loading for all the individual players.
12:54
when we were going to I want to say it
12:57
was Windrunner Spire to to go through a
13:00
Mythic Zero and there was a good 8 to 10
13:05
second delay between button pushes and
13:08
effects appearing in game because
13:10
Abundance was taking up like just a
13:12
massive amount of bandwidth. And
13:14
>> that's insane.
13:16
>> And like we know that's what it is
13:17
because there's been comments on
13:19
multiple threads and and stuff like
13:21
that. um and it just caused an issue and
13:24
and and Anna in chat I'm not sure why
13:27
they didn't instance abundance they did
13:30
um part part of it and it uses phasing
13:32
which uses an instance stack the problem
13:34
is anything else that uses phasing and
13:36
an instance stack is going to be
13:37
affected by it as well by the number of
13:39
of essentially I want to say sprites
13:42
yeah
13:42
>> um so the more players that are
13:44
participating in it the more uh mobs
13:46
essentially are spawn because think of
13:47
each orb as an individual mob
13:49
>> uh or half a mob or whatever the math is
13:52
so if you if the four of us are doing
13:55
it, every orb is four orbs, right? It's
13:58
just it's insane the server.
14:00
>> It's it's a multiplicative
14:02
>> Yeah.
14:03
>> Yeah. Although I'm sorry in in the year
14:06
of our Loramar uh 2026
14:10
um that level of performance impact like
14:14
there are ways to mitigate that. I mean,
14:16
not just not just with nerfs, but
14:19
>> well, I mean,
14:20
>> that this is happening still because
14:21
we've seen these kinds of world events
14:23
that attract large crowds of players all
14:26
at once.
14:27
>> I'm going to I'm going to counter argue
14:28
I'm going to counter argue in their
14:30
favor. Um, not that I want to give them
14:32
too much credit, but you don't doing
14:35
this stuff in a beta environment and
14:38
doing this on live servers after
14:40
everything has gone live are two
14:42
completely different animals
14:43
>> because you don't know how many players
14:45
are going to engage with this at a
14:46
single point in time.
14:48
>> And that makes all the difference in the
14:50
world. You can stress test it to your
14:51
heart's content. um you can trust it for
14:56
15,000 concurrent players in a zone on
14:58
an instant stack, but then that 15,000
15:01
and first player decides on live that
15:02
they're going to join in and everything
15:04
goes cattywampus. Like it's
15:08
>> it you can't always plan for it. Now, to
15:10
their credit,
15:12
>> to their credit,
15:13
>> they adjusted quickly, realized what the
15:16
problem is, and made an adjustment
15:19
faster than they would have in the past.
15:21
So I I'm I'm while it it stinks for that
15:26
we had to deal with it for a little
15:27
while, they reacted very quickly. So I
15:30
got to give them some credit for
15:31
>> Yeah. I mean, turn and and in general, I
15:33
think like bug fix tour turn because you
15:36
know I'm thinking back to
15:38
uh the emerald dream super bloom event
15:43
and how you 8 to 10 seconds of reaction
15:47
at that at that final um battle cluster
15:51
where it had the two gates open and mobs
15:53
spawning was you know the low end I
15:57
would argue starting out it it
15:59
absolutely crawled when everyone one was
16:01
running it consistently the first couple
16:04
weeks. So, the fact that they got a fix
16:06
out this quickly is, you know,
16:08
definitely nice. I'm still sad that, you
16:10
know, no longer as abundantly
16:12
abundanced.
16:14
How many times can I say abundance
16:16
before it stops sounding like a real
16:17
word?
16:18
>> Many, many, many times.
16:19
>> At least one more.
16:20
>> Uh, speaking of
16:21
>> an abundance of times.
16:23
>> An abundance of times. But I hope you're
16:26
all feeling abundant because, you know,
16:30
it's time for the charity pet as well.
16:32
Roffus, the absolutely adorable little
16:36
dog in the theme of dogs right now in
16:40
World of Warcraft, is available in the
16:42
shop until May 12th. I know we talked
16:45
about this last week, but Rufus is
16:47
available. Thank you for the applause.
16:50
Uh he's he's so darn cute, friends. He's
16:53
so cute. I mean, don't you just want to
16:55
take him home with you? Cuz like he
16:57
wants he has a little bed to get set up
17:00
at your player house and his and you can
17:04
have him in both classic and although
17:07
classic he doesn't get a house. Sorry,
17:09
because you don't get a house in
17:10
classic,
17:11
>> but
17:12
>> gosh, he's cute. I mean, he's holding a
17:14
little hammer. I I do like that Rufus
17:19
has a little house, but it has
17:22
interchangeable roofs.
17:24
There is a selection of four differently
17:27
styled roofs that you can put on Rufus's
17:30
house.
17:31
>> You got to be able to match
17:33
>> two beds,
17:33
>> but exactly. You've got to match it to
17:35
your own house, obviously. So, there are
17:38
four styles of roof for Rufus' house.
17:40
So, if you're if you're feeling abundant
17:43
in uh in terms of material currency,
17:47
then uh I at least take a look at him
17:50
because that little face and hard hat is
17:53
it's hard to resist. I know it's a bunch
17:55
of pixels, but it's hard to resist.
17:58
>> I mean, there there is another thing to
18:00
add that Rufus benefits Habitat for
18:02
Humanity and that 100% of the purchase
18:06
price goes to Habitat. That is not has
18:09
not always 100% been the case with
18:12
charity pets. So, it is nice to see that
18:15
whatever you put into buying Rufus goes
18:18
to Habitat for Humanity, which is an
18:20
amazing cause. So, that's the thing. You
18:23
can buy Roffus and feel good about it.
18:26
Absolutely. Roffus. Roffus wants to help
18:29
build houses in the real world with his
18:32
own little house. Okay. I'm sorry.
18:33
That's the last time I'm going to talk
18:34
about him.
18:38
I promise I'm done. Uh, but on to uh
18:42
looking a little bit to the future. We
18:45
have some news about patch 12.0.5
18:48
already. Uh, including Void.
18:52
>> We're just We're just here talking about
18:54
how much content is in this game right
18:57
now.
18:57
>> There's more content.
18:59
>> There's Yeah, they've they're already
19:01
talking about the next patch. I it's you
19:05
know I will say it does have the mode
19:08
that I was most looking forward to when
19:11
um they did the the kind of the roadmap
19:14
video uh in December for the anniversary
19:18
which is the decor duels.
19:21
>> Um I I absolutely want to be a Sha Long
19:25
in Silver Moon chasing after a broom. I
19:28
think that sounds exactly like all of my
19:31
childhood dreams of Beauty and the Beast
19:33
come to reality, but without the
19:36
lifeending curse.
19:38
>> Hopefully. I mean, you you never know.
19:41
>> I don't know why, but for whatever
19:43
reason, my brain you you mentioned this.
19:46
We're talking about the prop hunt
19:47
because that's really what it is. and
19:49
you're talking about Beauty and the
19:50
Beast and I immediately thought of the
19:51
pilot episode of The Critic uh where
19:56
he's literally where he's we he's dating
19:58
the actress temporarily and there's the
20:00
whole Beauty and the Beast scene where
20:02
all the random stuff in his apartment is
20:03
singing and it's stuff like his toilet.
20:06
Uh and it's Beauty and King Dork is the
20:08
song and I don't know why but that
20:10
popped into my Okay, I'm sorry you are
20:13
experiencing my manic episode in real
20:14
time.
20:17
>> It's okay. that when I when we first saw
20:19
that uh for you know because I I've been
20:23
playing it off and on since it launched
20:25
I thought of date everything.
20:27
>> Yeah.
20:28
>> So I was just ascribing the different
20:30
voice actors to like the the props that
20:33
were in the the teaser the stinger that
20:37
they presented and um it definitely made
20:39
it very amusing. I don't know how how
20:43
you know Erica Isi might feel about
20:46
hiding behind a plant pot as you know
20:48
whatever inanimate object but um
20:52
hopefully good
20:53
>> up for a good time hiding behind stuff
20:55
playing hide-and-seek with your friends
20:56
I'd say she'd be down for a
20:59
>> I think she'd be into it uh but there
21:01
you know even though we're all excited
21:03
for decor duels there are other things
21:06
including a new repeatable event called
21:09
the abyssal angle ers. Somebody uh tell
21:13
me about this and how it's like Dave the
21:16
diver because this sounds very
21:19
interesting and a little weird. A little
21:21
weird is the best way to be or or a lot
21:24
weird. You know, you you make the call
21:26
there. No, it's one one of the, you
21:30
know, very loud complaints you heard
21:33
with the release of Midnight. I'm sure
21:35
all of you have heard about this. There
21:37
wasn't a fishing event. How do you have
21:39
a whole Warcraft expansion without a
21:41
fishing event? It was I really It was
21:45
unconscionable on Blizzard's part. But
21:48
they are correcting this with the new
21:49
Abyss Anglers event, which is it's a
21:52
it's a strange fishing event because you
21:55
weren't you weren't going out there and
21:58
casting for fish. You are diving diving
22:01
deep into the ocean in Zolon. Is that an
22:04
ocean or is it Oh, anyway. You're diving
22:08
and spearing fish. So, yeah, that's
22:11
that's kind of the thing,
22:12
>> you know. And uh we wrote Diver, but
22:15
that also sounds a lot like fishing in
22:17
Animal Crossing to me.
22:18
>> It it's really cool that they're adding
22:21
stuff like this, but again, there's just
22:24
so much content and they they're adding
22:26
more. There's just there is so much to
22:29
do. And I I I'm going to rant about this
22:32
a little bit. Like not it I know it's
22:35
it's like first world problems here and
22:37
I'm I'm complaining about having player
22:38
choice and I'm I'm really not. But it's
22:41
like leveling there was so much to do
22:43
that I skipped doing side quests on live
22:47
and just did the main quest on my main
22:49
because there was so much to do at
22:50
Endgame that I didn't have time. And I'm
22:52
going back and leveling my my characters
22:55
and just leveling each of them through a
22:57
zone to do all of the quests. Like I
23:00
think my druid I got to 88.5
23:04
just doing her or herandar.
23:06
>> Like oh my gosh.
23:07
>> And I have done nothing but the questing
23:09
in that zone.
23:10
>> So like adding more stuff to the game is
23:12
not helping that problem at all. It's
23:14
just there's so much to do. I mean again
23:19
>> we're spoiled for choice at this point.
23:20
>> Yeah. I'm not trying to complain, but
23:22
man, this is it it's it can be very
23:26
overwhelming.
23:27
>> Oh, I I think one I I'm going to play
23:30
I'm going to play devil's advocate here.
23:33
I think one of the good things about
23:34
having all of this content is that you
23:38
have a big variety of content because,
23:41
okay, raids came out this week. Uh the
23:44
season one dungeon rotation came out
23:46
this week. Not everyone cares, you know.
23:50
Not everyone's going to run into normal
23:51
and heroic dungeons. No,
23:54
you mythic dungeons. See, I'm now I'm
23:57
mixing up in the other direction.
24:00
And by having a wider range of content
24:03
and a wider range of activities, you
24:06
have different activities for different
24:07
parts of the player base. One thing we
24:09
don't talk about a lot is PvP. Of
24:11
course, the new PvP season has also
24:13
kicked off, but you also have delves,
24:16
which are a more solo friendly activity.
24:18
You can obviously do them in groups, but
24:20
you can also do them by yourself.
24:21
They're a nice kind of challenging solo
24:23
activity. You also have prey, which is
24:26
new in the Midnight expansion, which uh
24:29
is just an extra solo challenge. All of
24:33
these different paths can give you
24:35
really good gear, and you get to choose
24:37
between them or you can do all of them.
24:39
So the thing is I do worry that because
24:43
there's so much to do, there are always
24:44
going to be players that are like, I
24:46
have to do everything because I need to
24:48
get all the things. I need to get all
24:49
the gear. So some players feel like that
24:52
and it's easy. I think it's really easy
24:54
to feel like that. Oh, to stay on top of
24:56
this, I have to do everything and I got
24:57
to do it right now. Ah, but
25:00
>> and if you don't, you're so far behind.
25:02
>> I because I I am in that cycle right
25:05
now. I do feel really behind. Um, I
25:08
almost have a second character to 90,
25:11
but you know, it's like raids are
25:14
starting this week and I need to gear up
25:17
and I'm like, I feel so far behind
25:20
everyone, even though this is literally
25:22
the fastest I have ever in my lifetime
25:25
leveled a Warcraft character, have two
25:27
characters at level 90 in two weeks.
25:30
That is I have never I have never done
25:33
this before. So,
25:34
>> I will say in good news, and and I'm
25:37
sure Ado is going to yell at me when he
25:38
hears this.
25:40
>> Your your gear for the normal raids, you
25:42
can do it in questing greens. You don't
25:43
have to worry about leveling your gear
25:44
that much. It's fine.
25:46
>> I mean, yeah, there's uh going into a
25:48
normal raid, you can you can really do
25:49
that with world quest stuff,
25:51
>> but you know, I I I feel the pressure
25:54
like, oh, I got to do I got to do all my
25:55
delves this week. I got to do all of my
25:57
uh praise this week. I got to do all
25:59
this stuff. But I think it's good to
26:02
have different content for different
26:04
kinds of players because different
26:05
players enjoy different things. And that
26:08
is where things like decor and abyss
26:12
anglers come in. Some people are going
26:14
to think both of these things are really
26:15
stupid. Some people are never going to
26:17
want to engage fishing. Some people are
26:19
never going to want to pretend to be a
26:21
chair.
26:22
>> Yeah. I think the problem is when
26:23
everything sounds fun
26:25
>> or like if you're the type of person
26:27
like this sounds neat, this sounds neat,
26:29
this is fun, this is great,
26:31
>> that's when it becomes a problem and I'm
26:33
currently in that. Like I'm usually a
26:34
person that's like well I'm just not
26:36
going to engage with anything I don't
26:37
want to engage in.
26:38
>> I firmly believe that. But this is one
26:40
of those rare instances that they've
26:41
done where it's like I want to engage
26:43
with everything. Everything that they're
26:45
doing right now is fun. And that's the
26:48
problem, right? Like for me personally,
26:50
and I understand not everybody's in that
26:51
camp. if I understand exactly what
26:52
you're saying and I advocate for do the
26:54
things you only want to do, but man
26:57
again, first world problems, Blizzard,
26:59
stop making fun things for me. I guess I
27:01
don't know what else to say. Like
27:03
there's just too much at once and I'm
27:04
like my brain is just like this is all
27:07
great and I want to do all of it.
27:08
>> I think even though I'm feeling like I'm
27:11
behind, even though you're feeling like
27:13
there's too much to do, you know, we are
27:16
two weeks into an expansion. I think
27:17
you've got to tell yourself, okay, I've
27:19
got lots of time. I have so much time to
27:22
do this. Um, you don't have to do all
27:25
your side quests right now. You don't
27:26
have to tear through all these zones
27:28
because we have plenty of time, but it's
27:32
very easy to fall into that pressure to
27:34
see your friends with like three level
27:37
90s all doing mythic mythic dungeons. I
27:41
got it right that time. I did it. And
27:43
and just feel like, man, I'm so behind.
27:45
I need to do so much more. And I I
27:48
really feel like I've I've pushed myself
27:49
and done a lot, but I still feel behind.
27:52
So, I'm aware that this is a trap and
27:56
I'm still falling into it. But I think
27:58
you gota you got to fight that because
28:01
you don't have to do everything at once.
28:03
There's so much to do. You don't have to
28:05
do it all at once. It's still going to
28:06
be here tomorrow. It's still going to be
28:08
here even after 1205 releases, which we
28:10
aren't going to see for a couple months.
28:12
They're talking about it. It's going on
28:13
the PTR. We we don't have to worry about
28:16
this today or even next month. So, we're
28:19
okay. We're I I'm gonna keep telling
28:21
myself that we're okay. It's going to be
28:24
fine. I'm not
28:26
I'm not that far behind. It will be
28:30
okay.
28:31
>> It will absolutely be fine. And you're
28:33
not behind. You will go to raid and have
28:37
fun with your friends because ultimately
28:40
that is what it's all about. And that is
28:42
why we do this to have fun. It's well,
28:46
okay, arguably for some of us, this is
28:49
also a job. But
28:53
first and foremost, have fun with it.
28:56
Um, before we move on, Corey, what have
28:59
you been engaging with most in uh in the
29:01
new expansion?
29:02
>> Tell me about your journeys. I've been
29:04
playing real slow because you know
29:06
there's Diablo, there's buying a new
29:07
car, there's all sorts of stuff that
29:10
takes your attention and all these games
29:12
keep releasing content all at the same
29:13
time. It's really rude.
29:15
>> Yes. Yes, they have. Which is where I've
29:17
been spending my time.
29:20
But on that, you know, Corey and I have
29:23
both been engaging with the new Diablo I
29:27
season 12, the season of slaughter. And
29:31
remember, you can't spell slaughter
29:33
without laughter.
29:35
>> I don't think that's what the butcher
29:37
does when he chases you.
29:38
>> I I He the butcher definitely laughs as
29:40
he's murdering you. This is very
29:42
>> He's murdering you. Yes.
29:44
>> This is a canonical event,
29:46
>> but we talk about the butcher because
29:49
the butcher is the theme basically. Uh
29:52
you're playing in season 12 in pursuit
29:56
of the new uh seasonal currency of fresh
29:59
meat.
30:01
because
30:03
and and butchery for the rep because the
30:06
the big power uh or seasonal theme
30:10
ability McGuffin, whatever you want to
30:12
call it, is turning into the butcher. Um
30:17
and I'm not going to lie, friends,
30:19
especially as someone who I don't play
30:21
the butcher that often at hots, but I
30:23
have. Um it's is fun. It's fun.
30:28
>> Very satisfying. laying waste. Very
30:30
satisfying.
30:32
Uh and it you progress in your butcher
30:36
adventures. What would you call um
30:39
butchering?
30:39
>> Yeah, butchering.
30:41
>> Yeah. Uh you progress it you pretty much
30:44
through to the endgame uh content which
30:48
is a new form of keys, right? Have you
30:50
gotten that far, Corey?
30:52
>> Yes. Yeah. Uh thankfully I got the last
30:55
legendary rune that I needed to make my
30:56
spec actually sing for my whirlwind
30:58
barbarian in a way that just catapulted
31:01
me forward. It was really annoying how
31:03
much more I was doing after I got the
31:05
correct stuff. But uh so you take a key
31:09
and then you make it bloody and what's
31:10
happens in that is the butcher is just
31:12
always chasing you. There is a
31:14
relentless butcher that you can kill but
31:16
he will come back in like a minute if
31:19
that uh 10 seconds even. he'll he's just
31:21
ready and waiting to hop out and engage
31:24
in butchery. And so the whole time
31:26
you're in the key, you're being the
31:28
butcher is on your tail. Everything is
31:30
stronger. Uh everything does more
31:33
damage. And uh so you've got to do your
31:35
regular dungeon or your layer boss with
31:37
the added threat of the butcher
31:40
butchering.
31:40
>> So it's almost the equivalent of uh
31:43
bringing a mythic to nightmare dungeon,
31:45
not a mythic piece of equipment. um
31:47
mythic difficulty to nightmare dungeons
31:50
because you you've really just juiced up
31:52
the difficulty there.
31:54
>> You sure it's very juicy. Lots of fresh
31:56
meat. Uh and it's it's a fun way of
32:00
putting a little extra pressure on you
32:02
at the same time. The seasonal mechanic
32:04
of the uh what are we calling it? The
32:07
kill streaks is in full effect. And so
32:10
you're trying to do all that while also
32:12
maintaining your kill streak without
32:13
letting it fall off because all of the
32:16
new bloodied gear that you're getting
32:18
get makes you stronger for having more
32:21
kills active at once.
32:22
>> And I think that's been the biggest
32:24
point of contention with this other than
32:26
the fact that everybody is mourning
32:28
sanctification because for all its uh
32:31
initial issues on the PTR and so forth,
32:33
sanctification turned out to be very
32:35
powerful. Uh,
32:38
>> but yeah, it it's been a point of
32:40
frustration with this gear that like,
32:43
you know, instead of having a a power up
32:47
consistently, you have to reach
32:49
killstreak thresholds or killstreak
32:51
counts or killstreak timers to get these
32:56
improvements. So, you can't always rely
32:59
on the killstreak gear to be the best
33:04
thing for your build. And that makes it
33:06
hard to really engage with the theme.
33:09
>> And also also think about doing lair
33:11
bosses or even the end boss of a
33:13
nightmare dungeon. It's that that's when
33:16
your kill streak is going to drop off,
33:18
which is when you really need power.
33:20
>> Well, as long as you can make it to them
33:23
without in the next 5 seconds, you'll be
33:25
okay.
33:27
>> As long as you're attacking something,
33:28
your kill streak is maintained. But yes,
33:30
it is tough sometimes. So, picture like,
33:34
you know, just because this is the first
33:36
thing that came to my mind, the Echo of
33:37
Lilith fight where she's sending waves
33:40
of spikes out at you. That's over 5
33:42
seconds. That will cause your kill
33:45
streak to drop
33:46
>> and there's nothing to kill in her fight
33:48
anyways. So,
33:50
>> so like it it it is but we have to
33:54
remember this is an abbreviated season
33:56
for all that. It does have the full
33:57
quote unquote seasonal journey, the
33:59
reoquaries. Um, and and sorry, seasonal
34:03
arc. I've completely forgotten what that
34:06
system is called now. That's
34:07
embarrassing.
34:08
>> Rank.
34:09
>> Season rank. Thank you.
34:11
>> It's like more than any other Blizzard
34:14
game, Diablo 4 plays around with really
34:18
baseline mechanics and with a tendency
34:21
to rename them. And it's it can be a
34:24
little crazy making. And you know, we
34:27
we've got even more of that uh coming
34:30
down the pike because we found out uh
34:33
last week, I don't know the exact date
34:35
of the interview, but before March 17th
34:38
and after March 10th, we found out that
34:41
they are adding eight more torment
34:45
levels to Diablo I with Lord of Hatred,
34:49
taking us all the way up to Torment 12.
34:52
And as I put in our notes, proving that
34:55
time is a flat circle because we've been
34:58
here before.
35:01
>> So interesting because the people who
35:04
are playing this at the highest level
35:05
are already basically playing Torment
35:07
12. They are
35:08
>> effectively. Yeah.
35:10
>> They're they're doing the pit level 100
35:11
or the pit level 200, which has got to
35:14
be somewhere around tournament 12. If
35:15
it's not, I don't know what is.
35:17
>> Yeah. They're going to be aligning these
35:18
new tournaments with the additional pit
35:21
tiers. So, it's not like they're adding
35:23
pit tiers to make this happen. They're
35:25
folding them into the pit tiers or
35:27
equivalency to pit tiers.
35:29
>> Yeah. Which just means that you can you
35:31
can play the rest of the game other than
35:33
the pit at a high level and maybe you
35:35
get a better shot at getting those
35:36
purple mythics that you need for your
35:38
build to go truly high, which would be
35:41
nice. Um, but it is silly that it's
35:44
taken them this long to do it.
35:45
>> It's silly and it's also
35:47
>> Go ahead, Liz. I want to hear you
35:49
because we've we've already talked about
35:50
this twice now.
35:53
And so, one of my complaints about
35:54
Diablo IV since the game launched, since
35:57
day one, is that it felt like difficulty
36:00
was not sufficiently granular.
36:03
Like there was a big difficulty jump
36:06
between levels and you would get up to a
36:08
difficulty level and it'd be really hard
36:10
and then you'd get over that sort of
36:11
hump and then it would be super easy and
36:14
then you'd go up to the to the next
36:15
difficulty level and it would be super
36:17
super hard and then you'd get over that
36:19
hump and it was super easy and no
36:22
challenges at all, completely boring and
36:24
but the next level was still a huge
36:26
hump.
36:28
So, it felt like you needed more
36:30
granular levels of difficulty to fill to
36:34
fill that gap so you could progress at
36:36
an even pace. And also, when the game
36:39
first released, I there was not a ton of
36:42
endgame content. So, you might get up
36:45
to, you know, max difficulty level and
36:47
there are no more difficulty levels. So,
36:49
you're just running nightmare dungeons
36:52
and it's like that's all you can do. You
36:54
can just keep running, you know. And now
36:57
in uh in current Diablo, you would be
37:01
running the pit at higher and higher and
37:03
higher and higher difficulties, but open
37:06
world content that why are you going to
37:08
do that?
37:08
>> You're still blasting through it at
37:10
melting phases. Yeah.
37:12
>> Yeah. I mean there's but also there's no
37:15
like rewards for doing open world
37:17
content at that point. Nothing that's
37:19
going to be value valuable to you at
37:21
all. So, you're really funneled into
37:25
very specific types of gameplay and the
37:28
game can feel less fun if you don't just
37:30
want to spend all of your game time
37:33
running pits over and over again. Maybe
37:35
you want to do something different.
37:37
That's just not an option if you want to
37:39
keep progressing and keep improving. Uh,
37:42
so a lot of the old school Diablo
37:45
players seem to hate this. I mean,
37:47
that's the that's the vibe I'm getting
37:49
online is there's a lot of people who
37:51
don't like this because they didn't like
37:53
it in Diablo II. I've kind of I kind of
37:56
felt like this is always need needed
37:58
better difficulty scaling, but there are
38:01
some good points because in Diablo II,
38:03
you kind of had break points like no one
38:06
played every single you didn't go from
38:09
one tournament to the next tournament to
38:10
the next tournament. It's like you would
38:12
kind of hit a
38:13
>> Yeah, you would kind of hit a break
38:15
point in gear. you kind of get like
38:16
you'd get the right piece of your gear
38:18
and you just go up four tournament
38:19
levels because who cares about the ones
38:21
in between. And so that's a complaint.
38:25
And also this is another example of
38:28
Diablo kind of piling on more systems,
38:31
piling on more difficulty levels. So I
38:34
think there are some good things about
38:36
this having more diff more uh granular
38:38
difficulty so you can play at the level
38:40
you want and you can do any kind of
38:42
content you want. Uh, Lord of Hatred is
38:45
really pushing the idea of doing
38:46
whatever content you want with the
38:49
adventure guide. Is that what it's
38:52
called?
38:52
>> I think it's like adventure track or
38:54
adventure. Yeah,
38:56
>> because they had adventure mode in
38:58
Diablo II,
38:59
>> right? Uh, so you can kind of pick the
39:02
sort of gameplay you want to get your
39:03
endgame reward. So you don't just have
39:05
to run the pit endlessly. You don't just
39:07
have to run nightmare dungeons
39:09
endlessly. you can say this is the kind
39:11
of gameplay and sort of the reward
39:13
structure will follow the sorts of
39:15
things you like to do. So you don't have
39:17
to just grind one thing you don't like
39:20
forever. And I think I think that's
39:23
great. So it's possible that having
39:26
these additional difficulty levels will
39:29
help sort of unlock more gameplay
39:32
options like doing really challenging
39:35
content in the open world if that is the
39:37
thing you like. But it's also it's a
39:40
level of complication and it could end
39:41
up having the same problem Diablo III
39:43
did, which is it's too granular and you
39:46
just never play all of these tournament
39:48
difficulties. So,
39:49
>> yeah,
39:50
>> we're going to have to see.
39:51
>> And I think that's where we're going to
39:53
end up honestly. Um, you know, we've
39:55
talked about how the the pit is very
39:59
similar to the rifting system in Diablo
40:02
II. Uh, it was war plans. we couldn't
40:05
remember the turbo for the endgame
40:07
progression but also you know conversely
40:11
and this is not an argument for against
40:13
this is an observation you know we
40:16
started the game at launch with the
40:18
statement that it will take 120 hours
40:21
for you to get your character
40:23
>> to full power and then you know we
40:27
reworked we've tuned we've reworked
40:29
difficulties now we have you know eight
40:31
difficulties where we go from normal all
40:34
all the way up to Torment 4. And uh to
40:37
then, you know, when Torment 4 was
40:40
announced and came out, it was also, you
40:42
know, meant to be aspirational where
40:43
only 10% of all players would get to
40:46
Torment 4. And now, you know, we're
40:49
adding eight more torment levels to your
40:51
point, Liz, where, you know, we might
40:53
just end up jumping torments.
40:56
>> Um, but we're moving the target. We're
40:58
constantly moving the target. And
41:01
>> and for what? Why? Like it it doesn't
41:06
always feel good to be stuck in the the
41:11
intermediate or liinal space of I'm
41:13
powerful but not quite powerful enough.
41:16
And also you're then designing to
41:20
effectively your seasonal mechanic,
41:22
which I get is how they maintain their
41:25
player base, but it doesn't it doesn't
41:28
feel good. It doesn't feel good to be
41:30
facing down, you know, potentially going
41:32
all the way up to Torment 12. You know,
41:35
Torment 16 isn't that far off, guys. And
41:38
if you're adding more expansions, that's
41:40
that's where I see it going. And, you
41:42
know, we're basically going to be
41:44
effectively difficulty-wise back in
41:46
Diablo II land.
41:48
>> They're just going to keep turning the
41:49
knob for a number of tournament levels
41:51
until it feels right. And then we're
41:53
going to grid.
41:56
>> See, I I do not see a problem with being
41:59
back in Diablo II land. Diablo II was
42:01
really fun. It had its problems, but it
42:04
was really fun. And it's also a game
42:06
that, man, Diablo I has spent a lot of
42:10
time ignoring the lessons that were hard
42:13
won by Diablo II. Diablo III spent a lot
42:17
of time to get to the place it was when
42:21
Diablo I launched. It spent It was a lot
42:23
of time. It was a lot of hard work. It
42:25
was a lot of player feedback. It was a
42:28
lot of, you know, Diablo II and the
42:31
Diablo II devs went through a lot to get
42:33
that game to where it was. And Diablo I
42:36
came in and said, "We're going to do
42:37
something different." And just
42:39
>> I think they were so focused on
42:42
recreating the magic in everybody's
42:45
memories of Diablo II because you know
42:48
Diablo II only has three difficulties.
42:51
>> Um they were so focused on kind of
42:54
recreating that experience that they
42:58
didn't, you know, realize in my head,
43:02
you know, people are older now.
43:05
Obviously, you're adding new gamers as
43:07
they hit the age of applicable playing.
43:10
>> Um, and you know, the your your time,
43:13
you can't just, unless you're doing it
43:16
professionally, grind all night. You've
43:18
got to get up for work in the morning,
43:22
>> which is sometimes also playing video.
43:24
Obviously,
43:27
>> I'm old. I don't want to end up in the
43:29
cardiac unit,
43:32
>> but um a moving target for them too,
43:36
right? Because Yeah, you're right. They
43:37
said 100 hours to get to level 100 and
43:39
then they changed leveling so that there
43:41
isn't a level 100 anymore, but there's
43:43
300 Paragon levels now.
43:44
>> And and
43:45
>> you'll never get to Paragon 300 because
43:47
that takes
43:48
>> that takes forever and so much
43:50
experience.
43:52
>> Um to to our our you know love note to
43:56
Diablo II, luckily we're not the only
43:58
ones that remember that Diablo II still
44:00
exists. We finally got our season 38
44:02
announcement. Um the the hamsters are
44:05
getting ready to run on the wheel. Uh
44:07
season 38 will bring back ethereal
44:10
memories, aka the uh the ethereal
44:12
weapons that they first put in uh as a
44:15
seasonal theme in honor of Diablo II and
44:18
the Diablo II resurrected release.
44:21
Season 38 will start March 27th. So uh
44:24
if you haven't wrapped up in season 37
44:26
yet, first off, what are you doing? uh
44:29
aside from playing every other Blizzard
44:31
game like the rest of us. Uh but also
44:34
>> also it's time to wrap it up. So sorry
44:36
friends, you're Kai's cubeama will be
44:39
going away and ethereal weapons will
44:41
return.
44:42
>> I I love Kai's cubeama. It's one of my
44:45
favorite. Oh my god, it's so uh
44:48
>> it just I just love the way it it mixes
44:51
up gear. And if no one out there is uh
44:53
familiar with Diablo II's uh Kai's
44:55
Cubarama, as we like to call it, I do
44:58
not remember what its actual name is, um
45:01
it lets you, you know, usually you can
45:04
only equip legendary abilities in
45:06
specific armor slots, which kind of
45:08
limits how many abilities you can equip.
45:10
So, but in in this it lets you equip,
45:14
you know, equip as many legendary as
45:18
many like jewelry abilities as you want
45:21
>> or as many weapon abilities as you want
45:24
in your canise cube. And these are all
45:27
kind of bonus abilities on top of
45:28
whatever legendary gear, whatever you're
45:30
already wearing. So, you could just make
45:33
weird combos that are not possible
45:36
otherwise in the game. and it could be a
45:38
lot of fun because it really changed up
45:40
your builds. That's that's one of the
45:42
things I really enjoyed about Diablo 3
45:44
seasons is it felt like I mean not every
45:47
season was huge hit but they were all
45:49
different and some of and they could be
45:51
really impactful on gameplay. And I
45:53
don't know that Diablo I always hits its
45:56
mark. You know, with Diablo I the latest
45:58
season, I do feel like
46:01
I don't know if it's an amazing season,
46:03
but I like that they're doing something
46:05
different instead of another season
46:08
that's a different set of borrowed
46:10
powers
46:11
>> that's just a fresh coat of paint on the
46:13
last season. And I honestly I think it's
46:16
gotten a little stale, but I also bet
46:18
it's a lot of work for the developers to
46:19
come up with a new set of powers every
46:21
season that's engaging for all classes,
46:25
that works with all classes, and that's
46:27
reasonably balanced. I bet that's a that
46:29
sounds like a massive job to me.
46:33
>> And and it just keep going back and
46:35
reinventing the wheel every season
46:37
sounds it sounds like a grind. And it's
46:40
also a grind to play. So, I I'm glad
46:43
they're doing something different, but I
46:45
wish they'd have as much variety as
46:46
Diablo as Diablo III had.
46:48
>> I'm still so surprised that we haven't
46:50
seen any angelic enemies because it
46:52
seemed like they were prepping that as
46:54
back at the beginning of uh Hatred.
46:57
>> Yeah. Yeah. With the uh with how it, you
47:00
know, shook out with uh Lilith um you
47:04
know, kind of her spearing her ex.
47:08
>> Yeah.
47:09
I mean, have you met her ex? It was
47:12
super understandable.
47:14
>> Yeah, and Arius was a little exhausting.
47:17
Um, so we will wave goodbye to Forbidden
47:20
Archives in Diablo II and say hello to
47:23
Ethereal Weapons, just like we're saying
47:26
hello to the Cataclysm expansion in
47:28
Hearthstone, which released uh March
47:32
17th. Liz, I know you get usually get
47:35
the burden of Hearthstone talk and I'm
47:38
gonna pass the ball to you yet again.
47:41
>> Uh, so yes, the expansion is now live.
47:44
It is Year of the Scarab in Hearthstone,
47:47
which Hearthstone more than I think any
47:50
other Blizzard game, Hearthstone really
47:52
is follows a schedule very strictly. So,
47:56
it's not super unpredictable when uh
47:59
when you get a new season. It's not it's
48:02
maybe not as exciting as other game just
48:05
because you know you know it's coming.
48:06
You always know it's coming about on a
48:08
schedule. So Cataclysm now live. It has
48:11
a couple of cool new mechanics and some
48:14
old mechanics. Uh we've got a new
48:16
version of the colossal keyword. So you
48:18
have these great big colossal minions
48:20
you can put on the board. It has a
48:22
Herald keyword, which is new and old
48:27
because it's kind of like if you
48:28
remember the old Kathun decks, you'd
48:30
play all of these cards that would buff
48:32
Kathun no matter where he was in your
48:35
deck. And wow, that was that could be
48:38
rough to play cuz someone would pull
48:40
their Kathun and it would be like an
48:42
impossible to kill card at that point
48:43
because it had been buffed so much.
48:45
Herold cards are like that. they're
48:47
going to buff things in your deck and uh
48:50
maybe just murder the heck out of your
48:52
opponent. So that but it was a fun
48:54
mechanic to engage with and it's going
48:56
to be like with more than just that one
48:59
thing. And there is the shatter keyword
49:02
where you draw a card and the card
49:04
splits into two in your hand. One goes
49:07
on the left side of your hand, one goes
49:08
on the right side of your hand. And if
49:11
you play all the cards, and you can play
49:13
them individually, or if you play all
49:15
the cards between those two cards, then
49:18
you can play one card for both uh for
49:21
both mechanics. So, I think it has cool
49:23
features. It has a really strong theme
49:25
because you got Cataclysm. That's your
49:27
biggest event in Warcraft. You've got
49:29
your death your death wing coming in.
49:33
And uh I think this this is looking like
49:35
a really fun one. So, season just
49:38
getting started. It's a good time to
49:40
jump in and check it out. Uh, and yeah.
49:44
Yeah, I'm excited about this one, but
49:46
also it's it's Hearthstone. It's on it's
49:48
I don't want to say it's on rails, but
49:50
it's kind of on rails with uh with what
49:52
you can expect.
49:53
>> I really like seeing Deathwing back. And
49:55
they gave us nice shiny cinematics with
49:58
Deathwing, with Choal, Ragnaros. We got
50:01
a lot of great high high res images up
50:03
already, but he's he's fun, too. Not
50:05
going to poo poo Ragnaros too much, but
50:07
>> I don't think anybody would.
50:08
>> He's no Deathwing, that's for sure.
50:12
>> I mean, Deathwing has legs.
50:13
>> Fair.
50:15
>> Four of them. Even Ragnaros only ever
50:17
gets one. Two.
50:20
>> Fair enough. Well, in in the world of
50:23
other gaming news, we have a good and a
50:27
bad. Well, no, really. It's a good and a
50:30
good. It just this first one started
50:32
bad. So, Joe, I'm going to let you talk
50:34
about Subnotica 2.
50:36
>> Sure. So, uh, Subnotica 2 is probably
50:40
one of the most anticipated sequels to a
50:42
game since Subnotica released in January
50:45
of 2018.
50:48
Um, so it's been in development for a
50:51
while and the developer of Unknown
50:53
Worlds was acquired by Craftton, Inc. In
50:56
that acquisition, there were a few
50:58
provisions uh such as bonuses for
51:01
hitting sales goals by a certain date in
51:03
early access. This was spawned by the
51:07
early access success of Subnautica. Uh
51:10
and obviously it's something that
51:12
Unknown Worlds felt they would be very
51:14
easily able to do. uh Craftton realized
51:17
that they would probably have to pay
51:19
these now multi-million dollar bonuses
51:22
uh and therefore literally asked Chat
51:24
GPT how to get out of paying uh they
51:28
were advised to fire a whole lot of
51:30
people including the unknown world CEO
51:33
uh and then not actually begin sales
51:34
until after the bonus date had passed.
51:37
Uh, as you can understand, this made a
51:39
lot of people very upset. Uh, and thus
51:42
it was brought to court uh, in which
51:45
this week a judge just reinstated the
51:48
fired CEO of Unknown Worlds or at least
51:50
ordered that they be reinstated as well
51:53
as uh, two other lead devs and ordered
51:55
that the bonuses have to be paid. Um, so
52:00
the good is and bad is pretty obvious
52:03
there. The unknown is if this is going
52:06
to happen. Uh if nothing else,
52:08
corporations are really good at
52:11
continuing to mess with uh numbers and
52:14
their employees to best benefit their
52:16
own needs. Will Craftton find another
52:19
way to uh essentially try to get out of
52:21
this? They're going to try. Um but it is
52:24
a $250 million payout uh that the leads
52:28
would have gotten from Unknown Worlds,
52:30
and that's what they're they're due
52:32
right now. Uh so yeah, it's it's really
52:36
interesting to see actual clapback to
52:40
horribleness. Uh it's just a matter of
52:43
whether or not it sticks. So I'm Go
52:47
ahead.
52:47
>> The the other thing about this is, you
52:49
know, there's a tiny bit of bad blood
52:53
between these two parties.
52:55
>> A tiny bit.
52:57
>> Obviously,
52:58
>> and like a little a little bit
53:01
>> George A. Romero movies worth of bad
53:03
blood between these folks at this point.
53:04
>> Oh no. And but now you have them back
53:08
together. They have to work together to
53:11
get this game out. And another thing is
53:12
is after the CEO was fired, after the
53:15
co-founders were fired, some other
53:18
talent left the dev team
53:20
>> because
53:21
>> do I do I want to work in this company
53:24
without kind of the founders who know
53:25
what they're doing because they they'
53:27
brought in someone else to run the
53:29
company who was not familiar with the
53:32
game or the genre. So they've lost some
53:37
talent. So now the question is what
53:39
happens to Subnotica 2 from here? Are
53:41
these people going to be able to work
53:43
together? Are they going to be able to
53:45
get the talent they need to finish the
53:47
game the way the way it should be
53:49
finished? Cuz Subnotica was great.
53:51
That's how Subnotica 2 has had this much
53:54
hype behind it. And it's like they were
53:56
getting close to the finish line and
53:59
they just this whole thing has kind of,
54:01
you know, forced them to drop the ball.
54:03
So my big question is, can they come
54:07
together and finish this game and bring
54:08
the talent they need to finish this
54:10
game?
54:11
How does this impact what we get?
54:14
>> Yeah. So, I'm very curious about that as
54:16
well because I know what I would do at
54:20
this point. Uh, if I was Unknown World's
54:24
CEO and their leads, I would start
54:27
looking at reforming another company.
54:29
Uh, because it's very clearly they were
54:31
able to do it before. Uh, and I'm pretty
54:34
sure that any NDAs or non-competes that
54:36
they signed are no not enforceable in
54:38
any meaningful capacity. Um, so I but I
54:42
don't know like you're right there's a
54:43
lot of friction there. Will this game
54:45
get done? Will it be done now in a
54:46
proper time frame? How are the sales
54:48
numbers going to look? What about the
54:50
player confidence which is another huge
54:52
part of that, right? As a consumer of
54:54
these games, do you now justify like you
54:59
want to support the devs cuz and maybe
55:01
the game because you really enjoy it,
55:02
but you also don't want Craftton to win.
55:05
So like what do you do there? So, it's
55:08
it's interesting
55:11
and it because early access isn't up for
55:13
it yet. Uh I believe and Anna has posted
55:17
this in chat and I believe this is
55:18
accurate to what I read as well. Um
55:21
rumors are speculating that it should
55:23
become available in early access in May.
55:26
Um so, a couple months from the time of
55:28
this recording. So, we'll see. Uh but we
55:30
also don't know how far along they were
55:31
before everything went uh sideways and
55:33
before all this went down. Uh we also
55:35
>> they were close I think
55:37
>> I think they were close too which is why
55:38
they felt comfortable uh why Croftton
55:41
felt comfortable firing them because
55:42
they thought that they would be able to
55:44
you know do the thing and still have
55:46
enough left over to get it out cuz again
55:50
corporations manoo
55:53
>> truly the worst timeline.
55:54
>> And here's your periodic reminder to
55:56
never ask Chat TPT anything that could
55:59
be considered illegal or life changing.
56:03
like don't don't base major life
56:05
decisions on what chat GBT says in
56:07
situations like this
56:08
>> or just in general you know maybe maybe
56:13
>> listen listen
56:14
>> think a little more
56:15
>> the story of don't make the torment
56:17
machine was literally about don't make
56:19
the torment machine it wasn't something
56:21
encouraging you to make the torment
56:22
machine don't trust AI with anything
56:25
other than crunching numbers that's it
56:28
that's what it's good at it's good at
56:29
parsing data that should be the only
56:31
thing you use it for like and monsoon
56:34
Mike says this in chat and I agree. I
56:35
wouldn't I would not even ask any AI
56:39
what like what the weather was let alone
56:42
>> look out the window
56:43
>> let alone literally anything else. Yeah.
56:44
I'd look out the window at the yard
56:46
stick that I have planted in the ground
56:48
to see how much snow fell. Like I'll
56:50
trust that over over AI any day of the
56:52
week.
56:53
>> Absolutely.
56:55
>> But on to just some some good delightful
56:58
heartwarming news. Uh, there's a new
57:01
game that has dropped from an old or
57:04
excuse me, a new game announcement that
57:06
dropped from an old familiar face. Uh,
57:09
>> Papa's back.
57:10
>> You've been Papa's back. Corey, you've
57:12
been really quiet tonight. So, would you
57:16
be so kind as to run with this one?
57:18
>> Well, okay. Uh, Papa Jeff is back. The
57:22
former head of Overwatch has resurfaced
57:25
for the first time since leaving the
57:26
company. Really? Um he it's been a few
57:29
years since we saw him and he looks
57:31
great. He looks rested and like he's
57:33
having been having a good time. Uh there
57:35
was a big article that came out in his
57:37
first interview since leaving a company
57:39
where he referenced the long hours and
57:42
how the Overwatch League demands
57:45
um forced development changes on
57:48
Overwatch and all the stuff that we kind
57:50
of assumed had happened behind the
57:52
scenes because we could had eyes and we
57:54
could see the development trajectory.
57:57
But we also got other fun tidbits like
57:59
being invited into the CFO's office and
58:01
told that if he doesn't produce X money
58:03
then they have to fire a thousand people
58:05
and X money is a lot of money. Whatever
58:08
the number wound up being, it was just
58:10
too much. And
58:11
>> if you have to say if you have to say X
58:13
amount of money, you know it's an
58:16
impossibly large number. You can't even
58:18
express it in numbers. You have to say
58:20
X.
58:21
>> Yeah. It it was it was an impossible
58:23
task probably presented in order to make
58:25
them fail so that they could fire a
58:26
thousand people really is what it was
58:28
>> which is so many people and it's such a
58:30
ghoulish thing to threaten at any time
58:32
to be able to have that much power over
58:34
someone but uh that's in the past um
58:36
obvious it doesn't sound like the CFO
58:38
who was in at the time is currently
58:40
still in the company uh and we Papa Jeff
58:45
Jeff Kaplan has moved on uh he has
58:48
started a new game that looks like a fun
58:51
Wild Wild West uh survival sim with a
58:55
lot of care and attention and
58:57
development time put into just these
59:00
cool little facets of like a survival
59:03
crafting sim that make it I don't know
59:05
if it stands out in the in the field but
59:06
it does have a lot of fun little fiddly
59:09
bits that will probably keep you
59:11
entertained for a long time. Uh so much
59:13
so that to announce this they spent 10
59:16
hours playing it. So Jeff spent 10 hours
59:19
talking about his new Wild West game,
59:21
Legend of California is what it's
59:24
called. And uh we got to find out fun
59:26
tidbits like stone is tougher to get dig
59:29
through than dirt. And there is you can
59:33
specialize in types of cooking which
59:34
just makes me want to see like people
59:36
advertising for groups of like I really
59:38
want a chili cowboy and not it has to be
59:41
non beans chili. we can have a chili
59:44
cook off in this game. And that
59:46
immediately sold me on this project.
59:51
>> So, it seems fun. It see And it's And I
59:54
think the thing uh Anna pointed out
59:57
that's this is all crafting stuff that
59:59
we've seen before in this kind of game.
1:00:02
Uh but I think what sets it apart and
1:00:04
what has gotten us excited is just you
1:00:06
can see the care and attention and love
1:00:08
coming through on
1:00:10
>> Absolutely. what Jeff is talking about
1:00:12
and how he's marketing it and how he's
1:00:14
talking about it is that this is a game
1:00:16
that he's wanted to make and it's not
1:00:19
something that he's being forced to and
1:00:22
the decisions that are being made are
1:00:24
being made because they're fun
1:00:25
decisions.
1:00:26
>> I Yeah. And like you definitely get that
1:00:29
palpable like adoration for what they're
1:00:33
working on and I think that's really
1:00:35
cool. Um, I'm also just sold on the
1:00:38
premise of this because uh it it
1:00:41
essentially is reading to me almost like
1:00:43
Fallout 76 but in the Gold Rush era. Uh,
1:00:47
>> which is like
1:00:48
>> Oh, yeah. I could see it.
1:00:51
>> It's super because it's a multiplayer
1:00:52
open world survival action shooter in
1:00:55
that time frame. And and I think that
1:00:57
not enough games have really taken place
1:00:59
in that time frame outside of like
1:01:01
recent ones like Red Dead Redemption
1:01:03
because, you know, it's often just kind
1:01:05
of overlooked for whatever reason. And I
1:01:08
love westerns. It's just a thing that I
1:01:11
really dig. So seeing something that is
1:01:15
an openw world action survival shooter
1:01:18
based in this era is really cool, at
1:01:21
least to me. Like this ticks a lot of my
1:01:24
boxes. And the fact that I can
1:01:26
potentially play this with multiple of
1:01:28
my friends and go around being idiots
1:01:31
kind of like in Sea of Thieves and other
1:01:32
games where I can just be idiots with my
1:01:34
friends in an environment that I really
1:01:37
like really speaks to me. Um like it's
1:01:41
already up there there's already a page
1:01:43
on Steam for it. So like
1:01:45
>> Mhm.
1:01:46
>> you can you can wishlist it and uh
1:01:48
there's a play test that you can request
1:01:50
access to right now. Um if in case
1:01:53
that's something of your jam. I mean,
1:01:54
guess what button I pushed? Um,
1:01:58
and it and it has everything from like
1:02:00
that online co-op. You can also do
1:02:02
online PvP. Like, I'm looking forward to
1:02:05
seeing how this develops and it's going
1:02:08
to sound really goofy, but I just like
1:02:13
maybe it won't sound that goofy. I like
1:02:15
the visual uh noise of it because there
1:02:19
is a very distinct aesthetic for like
1:02:21
western movies and wild west games and
1:02:24
stuff like that that I think is very
1:02:26
charming and feels very alive in the
1:02:29
world in a way that a lot of other games
1:02:32
don't. Um, and another thing that sold
1:02:35
me specifically,
1:02:37
again, this is going to sound weird, was
1:02:39
the trees because it's such a small
1:02:42
thing, but because I'm a nerd and I read
1:02:45
and go down random rabbit holes about
1:02:48
like random topics, they're period
1:02:51
accurate trees. And you're talking to a
1:02:54
guy who looked at Red Dead Redemption
1:02:57
one and was screaming at the TV when
1:02:59
things were just wildly inaccurate. Like
1:03:02
I'm that type of person. So I'm like,
1:03:04
"Okay, this is cool. I'm in. I'm I'm I'm
1:03:06
in."
1:03:06
>> That's incredible. I didn't know about
1:03:08
the trees.
1:03:09
>> Like, and again, most people wouldn't,
1:03:12
but hyperfocus engaged, so like here I
1:03:14
am.
1:03:15
>> Yeah.
1:03:16
>> Also, I just not for nothing. Um it
1:03:20
feels meaningful in a lot of ways like
1:03:23
even his the new studio name is um it's
1:03:27
Kinugiama
1:03:29
which uh refers to the the Japanese
1:03:32
method of repairing porcelain and
1:03:36
pottery with gold.
1:03:37
>> Yep.
1:03:38
>> And yama is the I believe the proper uh
1:03:42
suffix for mountain. So it's it's it's
1:03:46
also just beautiful. It it Yeah, Papa
1:03:50
Jeff, we're so happy to see you back and
1:03:52
healthy.
1:03:53
>> I mean,
1:03:54
>> it's nice to see light in his eyes
1:03:55
again.
1:03:56
>> Yes.
1:04:00
>> Um, you know, one thing that I really
1:04:02
took away from this is I watched the
1:04:04
trailer and I was like, okay, okay. Um,
1:04:09
you know, you see a lot of game
1:04:10
trailers, so many game trailers and they
1:04:13
kind of they start to blend together.
1:04:15
But then I went I'm like, really? Jeff
1:04:18
Kaplan did a 10-hour stream of his game,
1:04:21
but watch him. It's 10 hours. He He took
1:04:25
a couple of breaks, but the stream was
1:04:27
going with other people talking. 10
1:04:28
hours. Um I I haven't watched the whole
1:04:31
10 hours, but I watched a lot of it. And
1:04:35
he's just there. You can tell there is a
1:04:37
genuine enthusiasm by Jeff and all the
1:04:41
other developers about not just the
1:04:43
shootery stuff. You know, obviously
1:04:45
there's going to be crafting. You can
1:04:47
craft your gun. You can craft different
1:04:48
kinds of guns. You can customize them in
1:04:50
all of these ways. You can pick kind of
1:04:53
the combat style you want to do.
1:04:56
Uh, but one of the things he said is
1:04:57
like I I want mining to be as fun as
1:05:00
shooting, you know, and and also like I
1:05:03
>> I just want a pan for gold,
1:05:07
>> but he wants this game to be not, you
1:05:10
know, okay, so for people who want to
1:05:11
PVP, okay, they can go out there and
1:05:13
PvP, but for people who just want to
1:05:15
ride around California on their horse,
1:05:17
they can do that. and just in every word
1:05:21
you could feel enthusiasm and affection
1:05:25
for what the game is and what they're
1:05:27
working on. So, I'll say it is not like
1:05:30
the most original survival game we've
1:05:32
ever seen. You know, a lot of these
1:05:34
mechanics are mechanics we've seen in
1:05:36
plenty of other games out there. So, but
1:05:39
you know, one of the things Blizzard in
1:05:42
particular always did and always loved
1:05:44
to do was take a game genre and give it
1:05:47
that extra layer of polish, you know, to
1:05:49
bring everything together and add its
1:05:52
improvements and make it something
1:05:54
that's kind of stands above uh other
1:05:57
games there. So, is this going to be
1:06:00
like that? Is this going to be just like
1:06:02
a great sort of survival action game? We
1:06:07
don't know. I mean, we haven't gotten
1:06:08
our hands on it, but I got to say, it
1:06:10
looks beautiful. All of the environments
1:06:12
are handcrafted
1:06:14
versions of California. So, you've got
1:06:16
like Yoseite. You can just go ride your
1:06:19
horse through Euseite. You can do that.
1:06:21
It's a massive open world and it's kind
1:06:25
of an an alternate universe, California,
1:06:28
where California is this great
1:06:30
unexplored island, which uh is really
1:06:34
neat. But what really sold me on it was
1:06:36
the enthusiasm, the genuine excitement
1:06:39
that everyone had for the project they
1:06:40
were working on. Because that is
1:06:42
something you see not that often from
1:06:46
developers. Not to say that developers
1:06:47
aren't excited about what they're
1:06:49
working on, but you know, if you're
1:06:50
watching like the Game Awards,
1:06:52
>> Mhm.
1:06:53
>> it's just this barrage of trailers and
1:06:56
very little genuine human emotion. Um,
1:07:00
that's one of the things I really like
1:07:02
about Day of the Devs, which usually
1:07:03
happens around the same time as the Game
1:07:05
Awards, which is that it focuses on
1:07:08
indie developers and it always has them
1:07:11
talking about their games for a few
1:07:13
minutes and as well as showing a
1:07:15
trailer, but there's a lot of talk about
1:07:16
games and development, what's going on.
1:07:19
And that always comes across in the same
1:07:21
way with this real affection for what
1:07:24
they're developing as opposed to just
1:07:26
here's a big shiny trailer with a
1:07:28
features list. So
1:07:31
I mean that more than anything really
1:07:34
made me interested in this game. And
1:07:36
this isn't a genre I usually play
1:07:38
because it usually drives me insane
1:07:40
trying to do all the survival and the
1:07:42
crafting and finding the things I need.
1:07:45
But I mean I got to play it looks well.
1:07:48
Yeah, hopefully I can play with friends
1:07:50
who know where we are and what we need
1:07:52
to go get and we can build our own town.
1:07:56
It's I it looks really interesting to me
1:07:59
even though it's not, you know, this
1:08:02
these are not the first people who had
1:08:03
this idea, but uh I I'm I'm interested
1:08:06
and I'm curious and I I do kind of want
1:08:08
to explore alternate universe
1:08:10
California.
1:08:11
>> That's totally fair. I think this has
1:08:14
sold a lot of us on a game that we may
1:08:16
not necessarily uh be interested in just
1:08:19
because of the sheer passion behind it.
1:08:21
>> And I think we could talk ourselves for
1:08:23
at least a couple more hours about it.
1:08:25
>> I do have one more really important
1:08:28
thing about this game is that they
1:08:30
posted they posted some videos about it
1:08:32
and one of the comments was from
1:08:36
Doflask. If you do not know who Doflask
1:08:39
is, they are a YouTube creator who used
1:08:42
to do a crazy videos of Jeff Kaplan.
1:08:46
Jeff from the Overwatch team edited
1:08:48
together to say all sorts of crazy
1:08:52
things.
1:08:53
>> Sometimes there were songs, you know,
1:08:55
>> Sigma Barrier Meta, among other things.
1:08:58
>> It was It was so much fun. Uh, so
1:09:01
Doflask left a comment on one of these
1:09:03
videos that said target acquired. Oh no.
1:09:07
>> And I'm like more more than anything
1:09:10
else, I am excited to see the next
1:09:13
Doflask video because like Jeff himself,
1:09:17
>> Dino Flask has been Doflask has been
1:09:21
slumbering. So I'm very I I am genuinely
1:09:25
excited about that.
1:09:27
>> I'm going to ask you to use that
1:09:28
excitement to talk about our site news.
1:09:31
>> Oh gosh. Do I have to bring the same Do
1:09:35
I have to bring the same level of
1:09:36
excitement to our website?
1:09:38
>> You do. Gosh,
1:09:39
>> it is required.
1:09:40
>> This is This is
1:09:41
>> That is our bread.
1:09:42
>> How exhausting.
1:09:44
>> How exhausting. H Well, I do too much
1:09:47
remind all of you listening that
1:09:49
Blizzard Watch is made possible by
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uh
1:12:14
>> I try to oblige.
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Uh well, you know, Eric gave me a good
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Thank you, Joe, for keeping the podcast,
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being Corey, even though we didn't get
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to uh huff any copium about hots
1:13:59
tonight.
1:13:59
>> This
1:14:00
>> any day now. Big announcements, I'm
1:14:02
sure.
1:14:04
>> Maybe there'll be a hot board game.
1:14:06
>> Oh,
1:14:07
>> yes, please.
1:14:08
>> Yes, please. But that has been the
1:14:11
Blizzard Watch podcast. Thank you all
1:14:13
for joining us, and I hope you have a
1:14:15
wonderful week. Good night. Night bye.