Up next in 10
This was the first week of Midnight Season 1, so we started off talking about the new dungeons and raids -- and what we got in our first Great Vault of Midnight. Our hosts that raid also did a bit of a post-mortem on how the addon apocalypse is shaking out in practice. And speaking of the revamps for Midnight, our first Trial of Style since the transmog revamp is now live, and it is not going well. There are plenty of other things to explore, though -- maybe even a little too much? Delves and dungeons and Prey and housing and now a raid, and its accompanying Race to World First? It's kind of a lot.
But to slow it down a bit, both the upcoming patch to Mists of Pandaria Classic and the new music video collab with Aurora really hit all those nostalgia buttons.
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0:10
Hello humans
0:13
and welcome to Lizard Watch. No, it's
0:16
Blizzard watch. Uh, hi everybody. I'm
0:18
Matt. I'm back to host. Um, whatever
0:21
doesn't kill you doesn't always make you
0:22
stronger. Sometimes it just hurts you
0:23
for days and you just you don't get out
0:25
of bed. But I'm back out of bed now
0:27
finally. And so along with our
0:29
magnificent, you know, always here
0:31
co-hosts of Liz Harper and Joe Perez,
0:34
we've got Phil. Phil Phil's here, Phil
0:36
Olrich. Um, I kept calling him Uric for
0:39
a very long time, but I've gotten over
0:41
it, but I can't stop referencing the
0:43
fact that I did it, and I don't know
0:44
why. Anyway, hi, Phil as well.
0:46
>> Hi.
0:47
>> Phil's like, I just they wouldn't stop
0:50
talking about Squids. And
0:52
>> so, but now we're going to talk about
0:54
things involving Blizzard Entertainment
0:55
and its many games. Um because I don't
0:58
know if you guys know and and I say that
1:00
because I was not fully aware uh but
1:04
Midnight's been out all month pretty
1:06
much and we're in week three I think
1:09
like it's season's gone is is gone live
1:12
right it's being rolled out already
1:14
season three I've already lost track but
1:17
yeah
1:18
>> yeah what it's time
1:19
>> so let's talk a little bit about what
1:20
they're doing this one time um we've got
1:23
mythic void spire and the I want to a
1:27
Dream Rift. Yes, Dream Rift. Dream,
1:30
>> mythic dream rift. That's also gone out.
1:32
Um, we've also got the Voidspire LFR
1:35
Wings 2, um, Voidspire story mode and
1:39
mythic plus dungeons. So, all that's
1:41
out. You can do all that stuff. Um, the
1:44
final, um, raid, which is going to be,
1:46
you know, March on Quelas, and that's
1:48
not launching until March 31st. And on
1:51
March 31st, I'm going to be getting lots
1:54
of bad things happening to me. So, uh,
1:56
but it'll be better than this week. Um,
1:58
so, yay. But yeah, that's all happening.
2:00
And I I honestly I think I'm still
2:03
catching up. Like I just started um my,
2:07
you know, uh, Midnight character. I just
2:10
got, you know, my first level and I I'm
2:14
like kind of drowning. It's like I
2:16
>> There's so much There's so much. I
2:18
started um I started a horde character
2:22
and then I'm playing my my alliance
2:23
character as well. But I I I played my
2:26
horde character in the when it starts
2:28
the character is was back enough in
2:30
level that I it gave me the option to do
2:32
like basically um the war within digest
2:36
version where they go back and get
2:38
Hammerfall and I I didn't know that that
2:41
was coming. So, I was very surprised
2:43
when I found myself in a wrath getting
2:45
Hammerfall back instead of, you know,
2:47
fighting the void. Um, but I I I haven't
2:51
So, I haven't got a chance to do this
2:52
yet, but I I did want to read it because
2:54
it's here. You guys got anything good in
2:56
the vault yet?
2:57
>> Uh, so the first great vault uh just
2:59
went live this week and I have a
3:03
surprising amount of stuff in my vault.
3:05
What have I been doing? Apparently, I've
3:07
been doing something. But I do have I
3:09
haven't pulled anything out yet, but I
3:11
do have one piece of tier.
3:13
>> Well, we dragged you we dragged you on
3:14
that mythic run, so you have at least
3:16
stuff from those like that that triggers
3:18
the box.
3:19
>> Yeah, I probably some prey or some
3:22
delves.
3:23
>> It It just It feels like there's a lot
3:26
in the box this week. I don't usually
3:28
have this much stuff.
3:30
>> Um
3:31
>> I one piece of tier and I think that's
3:33
probably what I'm going to grab. Yeah, I
3:36
I got spoiled for choice today, which is
3:39
the first time that the box this season
3:41
uh being a thing has not done what has
3:45
done every other expansion in season for
3:47
the last five uh of the box being
3:50
available, which is has not presented me
3:52
with multiple copies of the same item.
3:54
And in fact, it gave me a choice of like
3:56
tier or my best in slot weapon. Uh like
4:00
so I picked tier, so I'm at three pieces
4:02
now. Um,
4:05
>> well,
4:05
>> three with three pieces. Oh my god.
4:07
>> I catalyzed one. I got the helm. The
4:10
helm. The helm is an off piece for me.
4:12
Um,
4:13
>> and then I got shoulders out of the box.
4:15
Ideally, I need the helm from the
4:19
>> uh I think it's from Bellamore. I think
4:21
drops it. Whatever. But we'll get there
4:22
when we get there. Uh, which has the
4:25
better stats cuz I I this is going to be
4:27
a rant that I get into at some point. I
4:29
hate Blizzard for making me want
4:31
versatility now, which I feel filthy. I
4:35
feel unclean. Like I need to be rocking
4:37
back and forth in the shower crying at
4:39
this point because it it's like I no
4:42
longer need haste. Uh all my spells
4:44
after the pruning have been set to a a
4:47
very specific level that haste doesn't
4:49
really matter any I mean it does, but
4:51
not really. Um crit is still number one.
4:54
mastery. I have so much accidental
4:56
mastery as a resto shaman that I don't
4:57
really care about it that much. I mean,
4:59
I I blink and I'm at 70% mastery. Um, so
5:03
basically means that the only other stat
5:05
to worry about is crit followed by
5:07
versatility for raw throughput. And it
5:11
feels so bad, but it also means that
5:14
every piece of gear I need either needs
5:16
to be catalyzed or it has to be a tier
5:19
piece. Uh, because those are basically
5:22
my only options. So, I picked I picked
5:25
the tier piece out of the box, but I was
5:26
really happy to see that the box was
5:28
full and they did lower requirements. We
5:31
were talking about this in raid. Um,
5:33
>> the number of raid bosses in in
5:36
necessary to fill out an entire row in
5:38
the box has been lowered. Uh, I think
5:41
it's six now for an entire row, which is
5:44
very very easily obtained and good.
5:46
>> I I think they had to do that because
5:50
>> of how it's split. Uh yeah, because of
5:52
how the raids are split, you don't have
5:53
enough bosses to get all the way to a
5:56
full what's it.
5:58
>> But I think it just feels better, too,
5:59
because like how many times did we like
6:02
last expansion and last tier
6:05
>> did we, you know, we got so far and we
6:07
were like one boss away from getting
6:09
that extra slot
6:11
>> and that one extra roll of of the dice
6:13
and that loot may have been the
6:14
difference from us progressing into the
6:16
uh next layer of heroic, you know. So
6:20
having it lowered, even if it's a result
6:21
of
6:22
>> because the raids are split, still feels
6:25
better. It still means that
6:26
>> there's an opportunity for people to get
6:28
stuff quicker, and I'm okay with that.
6:30
>> Bill, do you anything?
6:31
>> Uh, I was spoiled for choice for
6:33
non-tier set plate pieces. Um, so I
6:36
grabbed a pair of gloves that I can
6:38
catalyze next week. Um, but I also had
6:41
like a decent ring. I had uh I said I
6:44
think I had a plate piece for just about
6:45
every slot. Um, no weapons or shields or
6:49
trinkets, you know, none of the exciting
6:50
stuff. But, uh, it'll put me at three
6:53
once I can catalyze these gloves. So,
6:55
>> um, should basically talk about the
6:57
other thing, which is
6:58
>> how are you guys feeling about
7:00
>> I think Liz had more.
7:01
>> This is coming in. Well, just uh tier
7:04
always always a problem at this point in
7:06
the expansion because a lot of classes
7:07
aren't you're not reaching kind of your
7:09
full power because everything's like the
7:12
game is kind of balanced around you
7:14
having those tier powers and you have
7:17
these, you know, can be weeks before you
7:20
can unlock set bonuses. So, if I pull
7:22
one piece of tier out of the vault,
7:25
which I've got a lot of good things in
7:26
the vault, but I think I have to take
7:27
the tier piece uh and catalyze another
7:30
piece, then then I've got two piece.
7:33
>> Well, I guess
7:33
>> and you know, you still need two more.
7:35
>> And before we move on, we should
7:36
probably talk about the achievement that
7:38
comes from getting four piece, right?
7:40
Like is that matters? Um the catalyst
7:42
unbound. Um so you unlock your unlock
7:46
your class set bonuses during the
7:47
midnight season 1. Uh, it gives you a
7:50
Dongguard maniflux. Uh, the ability for
7:52
dong dawn light manaflux. Word words in
7:56
this madeup game, man. Uh, can drop from
7:59
additional sources and those can be used
8:01
as charges for your catalyst, which
8:04
means
8:04
>> I did not realize that.
8:06
>> Yeah. So, this is important to note
8:07
because once you get four piece, which
8:09
is why we were talking about in guild
8:11
about prioritizing making sure people
8:12
get four piece the fastest
8:14
>> because right now most everybody their
8:18
best in slot for the season is coming
8:20
from catalyzed off pieces.
8:22
>> So, you get your your four piece bonus
8:25
which then allows you to either catalyze
8:28
quicker or sooner uh because you'll be
8:30
able to get them from other drop
8:32
sources. Um, and it they Blizzard says
8:36
it's character specific, but I know some
8:38
people are reporting that it's happening
8:39
to the war band once you get it.
8:41
>> The war the war band thing has been
8:43
fixed. That was a bug.
8:44
>> Okay. Oh,
8:45
>> but but it's good to know because
8:47
>> if you open your box and you have a
8:48
choice between advancing your tier
8:50
pieces or getting something else, it is
8:53
in this particular
8:55
>> this particular season almost always
8:57
more advantageous to take the tierpiece
8:59
even if it is an off tier piece for you
9:02
until you get to four pieces so that you
9:05
get the opportunity to catalyze more
9:07
items. So
9:08
>> yeah, there's so much power in that and
9:11
yeah, so here we are. So, uh, how do you
9:14
guys feel about raid add-ons this this
9:17
far in, um, it's only been a couple
9:19
weeks, but how are you doing? Because I
9:20
know you guys are all raiding. I'm not,
9:22
obviously, but, you guys are.
9:23
>> Uh, let Liz go first.
9:25
>> Uh, man, I would say it feels like
9:28
raiding in vanilla, except I don't know
9:31
if it feels as good as raiding in
9:33
vanilla, and in part because we've
9:35
gotten used to having all of these
9:36
add-ons, but we have taken so many steps
9:39
backwards. Um, I mean there are there
9:43
are raid effects I find really hard to
9:44
see and now you don't get notifications
9:46
on them. Or you have like you have two
9:49
options. You have a raid add-on and my
9:52
DBM hasn't been working. I don't know
9:53
why I and I don't know if I want to fix
9:56
it or not. Either you have raid warnings
9:58
that are overaggressive and constant to
10:00
the point where you ignore them or you
10:03
have absolutely nothing or near nothing.
10:07
And yeah, it's mechanics are more
10:10
difficult. I think Blizzard Blizzard has
10:13
been over the past few expansions trying
10:15
to make mechanics easier to see uh with
10:18
more defined um boundaries,
10:22
but I'm having to work a lot harder just
10:25
to not not be where I shouldn't be.
10:28
>> I I want to challenge that slightly. I I
10:31
I hear what you're saying and and
10:33
obviously your opinion is is valid, but
10:36
I'm wondering how much of that opinion
10:37
is colored by the fact that you're melee
10:39
because
10:40
>> Yeah, melee is terrible. That is also
10:43
true
10:43
>> cuz I was going to say I think that that
10:44
that makes it more difficult cuz I
10:48
playing on my druid I'm noticing this a
10:50
lot too where like I like melee a lot
10:53
more this this uh expansion this season
10:56
than I did uh previous season and the
10:59
last expansion. Uh, but I did notice
11:01
that getting out of stuff is harder even
11:04
when you do know what's going on. I
11:07
don't know about raid yet cuz I haven't
11:08
done melee and raid. But I would like to
11:11
challenge that I think that with the
11:13
pairing back of the add-ons, I do think
11:15
that the raid mechanics have at least
11:17
right now are are mostly
11:19
straightforward. Uh they're a lot more
11:22
they're a lot less convoluted than they
11:24
were in even you know the war within to
11:27
a certain extent. And I think some of
11:30
that is due to the fact that the add-ons
11:32
have been nerfed into the ground. Um,
11:34
and to answer Matt's original question,
11:37
I I don't see much of a difference
11:39
because my UI has essentially been the
11:42
same since Burning Crusade. Um, I the
11:45
only thing that I care about and it
11:47
works is if Grid 2 was gone, I would be
11:49
very angry because I do not like
11:51
Blizzard default raid frames. I think
11:52
that they are absolute hot garbage. Um,
11:55
>> uh, they are. But grid 2 lets me get
11:58
exactly what I want, exactly what I
11:59
need, and I'm good. Um, but like I
12:04
haven't really noticed much of a
12:05
difference. The one thing I will say and
12:06
and and I will give them at least a
12:08
compliment here. I really like what they
12:11
did with the boss timer. I like the
12:14
timeline and I like the effect that you
12:17
can put it into uh like bars and put
12:21
them where you want to, which is
12:23
essentially all I really need. So, I'm
12:25
content. And I have my grid frames and
12:28
I'm and like I have plater and and all
12:31
that other stuff to make better and
12:33
better blizzard bar Blizzard plates,
12:35
excuse me,
12:36
>> which make things much more readable.
12:38
So, like
12:39
>> plat platinator.
12:40
>> Platinator. That's it. Platinator.
12:43
>> That is you know the designer the
12:46
designer that I threw money at
12:48
immediately upon knowing that it existed
12:49
as
12:50
>> that has been a really excellent add-on.
12:54
Uh that has actually really really been
12:56
helpful. It's made it a lot easier for
12:58
me to see um cast enemy spell casting.
13:01
Um
13:02
>> yeah, little little little plug here for
13:04
uh for uh plus mouse because if plus
13:08
mouse has made a wonderful suite of
13:09
add-ons that work in the new uh
13:11
environment platinator, Chattinator,
13:14
Syndicator, Baginator, there's a theme
13:16
here, folks. Um
13:18
>> yeah. Yeah,
13:19
>> Barbberator. Oh, wait. No, that's
13:20
>> I like I like this better than that one
13:22
developer who had a habit of naming
13:23
things after small animals that can
13:25
never keep track of which one was which,
13:26
except chinchilla was the map add-on.
13:28
>> But I mean, even even the
13:30
collectionator, the uh the transmog
13:32
add-on that they have is amazing for
13:34
tracking down uncollected transmogs,
13:36
pets, toys, mounts, recipes, uh and even
13:40
works with auctionator uh to help you
13:43
know which ones in the auction at a very
13:44
quick filter you have and don't have.
13:46
So, like
13:47
>> I might need to grab I might need to
13:48
grab that because I've been missing
13:49
Rarity. Rarity did not update with the
13:52
patch or at least did not update soon
13:54
enough for me to continue using it and
13:55
I've been missing things like that.
13:57
>> I can vouch for Collectinator.
13:59
>> Well, I'll be grabbing that then. It's
14:01
kind of It's kind of interesting because
14:03
we uh Matt asked us how we're liking
14:05
Raid without add-ons and we have all
14:07
three roles represented here. So, that's
14:08
kind of cool. Um, I'll say from a tank
14:11
perspective, I have not noticed a huge
14:13
difference other than I have to
14:14
communicate with my off tank again.
14:16
>> Um, because
14:17
>> I like that actually as a healer, I like
14:19
hearing what you guys are doing. It
14:20
helps me heal you.
14:21
>> I'm enjoy I'm enjoying it. Uh, because
14:24
there's, you know, there's not Well, I
14:26
say there's not, but DBM is in fact now
14:29
telling you taunt now um, in certain
14:31
circumstances. But, um, it yeah, like
14:34
it's been nice. It's like, you know, we
14:35
have to manually figure out what the
14:37
tank swap mechanic is again. we have to
14:39
time it again. It's kind of nice. Like
14:41
last night we did the Vanguard of the
14:43
Light for the first time and during that
14:45
fight like we didn't have DBM telling
14:47
us, "Hey, here's when you should tank."
14:48
We had or taunt. We had to figure out,
14:50
hey, what's the taunt swap mechanic on
14:52
this fight? I mean, and then we
14:54
proceeded to mess it up, but it was fine
14:55
because it was normal. But it it's
14:57
interesting having to like learn things
14:59
again. Um I don't know. Other than that,
15:02
I don't really I I'm gonna be honest. I
15:05
don't miss add-ons that much. I don't I
15:07
I don't I don't miss having that set
15:11
over everything. I don't miss a lot of
15:12
>> I miss full GTFO. That's the one thing I
15:15
miss.
15:16
>> Yeah, I do miss that. I will give
15:18
Blizzard credit that in a lot of cases
15:20
where GTFO would have been yelling at
15:22
me, they have started adding like very
15:25
obvious colored borders to the outside
15:27
of the screen, which is nice. The big
15:28
one I'm thinking of is the void puddles
15:30
on fight that slowly grow. uh those it's
15:35
very easy to kind of like just have one
15:37
of those grow on you without really
15:38
noticing and next thing you know you're
15:40
you know you're dipping a toe in it
15:41
you're taking a ton of damage but also
15:43
like
15:43
>> this is demonstrated right now
15:46
>> yeah see
15:48
>> there's a very obvious like blue black
15:50
voidy border that kind of appears on
15:52
that side of your screen and I'm like
15:53
got to move got to move my foot so um
15:56
yeah I'd say that's probably the biggest
15:58
difference from a tank perspective is I
15:59
have to communicate with people now um I
16:02
don't So, I know that people who are uh
16:05
real sweaty M plusers are going to be
16:06
mad that they can't see the externals
16:08
that all their group members have and
16:09
call for them by name anymore, but I
16:11
never really I'm not that sweaty anyway.
16:13
I I will I I will say that I I miss
16:15
because I I tend to and for better or
16:18
worse and I'm sorry Rosa um I tend to
16:21
insert myself a lot when like calls are
16:24
being made or stuff like that when it's
16:25
necessary but like I miss
16:27
>> I miss having uh a perfect onetoone
16:31
knowledge of whose cooldowns were
16:33
available when
16:34
>> um a little bit because like when I'm
16:38
trying to help you know figure out what
16:40
what cooldowns we're using where or what
16:42
battle reses are available for who and
16:44
like figure out who's closest. Like it
16:47
was really nice at a glance. It's not
16:48
the end of the world, but I got I I
16:51
realized that I got very used to it, I
16:53
guess.
16:53
>> Yeah. I remember you from Elaria and you
16:55
would be like calling out my you shield
16:57
wall. I'm like I'm the Oh, me.
16:59
>> Oh, yeah. Know I called I I when I when
17:01
I was when I was Matt do that
17:02
>> when I was Matt's raid leader, I I
17:04
called everybody's cool downs. He
17:06
remembers.
17:07
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. I I do cuz I mean I I
17:10
came up as a tank in that period of
17:12
time. you had to talk to people because
17:14
there wasn't an add-on that told you
17:16
what to do. Um, so yeah, for me it was
17:18
always like Joe's like, you know, shield
17:20
wall. I'm like, I I'm the one tanking. I
17:23
think he needs me. I am. Uh, so yeah, it
17:26
it I do. But, uh, since we've talked
17:28
about that and I want to hear questions
17:29
about this because I haven't got a
17:30
chance to use it yet and you guys
17:32
probably have. I know Liz probably has.
17:34
Trial of styles open and it's buggy.
17:36
What does that mean, Liz? that I
17:39
actually have not done trial of style
17:41
because it's such a wreck.
17:43
>> But that then you to you didn't you
17:45
weren't able because it was that buggy.
17:47
That tells me what's what's happening.
17:49
>> So the thing is trial style because of
17:52
the new transmog system. Trial of style
17:54
works differently than it used to
17:57
because you know it used to give you
17:58
free transmog. So you could transmog
18:01
whatever during trial isn't the same
18:03
anymore. So
18:04
>> it's totally different. Now it's a slot.
18:06
So during trial of style, you get a
18:08
special trial of style slot and that is
18:12
free to change to whatever you want. But
18:15
when you go into trial of style, unless
18:18
you already have that trial of style
18:21
slot selected, it won't let you switch
18:23
slots when you're in trial of style. And
18:25
it doesn't force you into your trial of
18:27
style slot. So unless you have prepared
18:31
and selected the right transmog slot
18:34
before you zone into trial of style, you
18:36
can't change your transmog at all.
18:40
>> Some people were also finding that they
18:41
couldn't even if they had the slot
18:42
selected and the best guess is that the
18:44
situation system was messing with it
18:46
because it thought that they were
18:48
>> simultaneously using the trilo style
18:50
slot but also using a different slot and
18:52
so then they couldn't even change that.
18:54
>> So it was even worse.
18:57
Yeah, I've seen reports of people not
18:59
being able to Yeah. not seeing anyone
19:01
wearing transmog. So, you get, you know,
19:03
at the end of each phase, you see people
19:05
up on stage and you vote on who has the
19:08
best transmog and it's like, what are
19:11
you supposed to do when no one has any
19:13
special transmog on? I don't know.
19:17
But yes, it does look like this could
19:20
have used
19:22
a little extra testing before rolling it
19:25
out this week.
19:26
Don't forget the part where the rewards
19:28
are missing
19:29
>> and sometimes it dis sometimes they
19:31
disappear as you went to buy them.
19:33
>> I'm just imagining the guy who you know
19:36
dual wields fish and wears nothing but
19:38
an apron. It's that person's time to
19:40
shine
19:41
>> cuz you're the only one who's got a
19:43
transmog on.
19:44
>> Uh so yeah, it's just it does not look
19:47
like it was tested with the new transmog
19:50
system and it just rolled live and I
19:53
don't know about you guys really work.
19:55
I've been having a ton of just random
19:57
issues with the new transmog system in
19:59
general.
19:59
>> Also that I think there are still some
20:02
some problems with it. Like uh I have
20:04
trouble sometimes it won't let me switch
20:06
transmogs.
20:07
>> Yeah.
20:08
>> Sometimes
20:08
>> sometimes it turns it off randomly.
20:11
>> Sometimes it shows all of my transmogs
20:13
as the same transmog even though I have,
20:15
you know, a bunch of looks saved. It'll
20:16
just be like, "No, these are all the
20:18
same." I I heard something equivalent to
20:20
what Phil just said about the situation
20:22
uh system
20:24
>> that sometimes the situation system just
20:26
does not do anything.
20:28
>> So like you have like a special fishing
20:30
set that you like to wear when you're
20:31
out in the world fishing and it doesn't
20:33
switch to it.
20:33
>> Yeah, I've got a recurring one where it
20:36
will work fine when I walk into my house
20:38
to switch me into the casual wear set
20:40
that I have for my house, but when I
20:41
walk out instead of picking the one
20:42
that's appropriate to my spec, it will
20:44
default to the last spec in the list no
20:46
matter what. Um, I have one spec where
20:49
I've had to uh completely like delete
20:52
the look in there and redo it because
20:53
whenever I tried to mock to that set, it
20:55
would switch to a different set instead.
20:57
It just did not like that one.
21:00
Uh, when I This one is constant. When I
21:02
try to look at a different set, like
21:04
just look at a different one on the
21:05
list, I have to click it and then click
21:07
away and then click back and then click
21:08
away and then click back for it to
21:10
actually show me all the pieces in that
21:12
set. Uh because frequently it'll just be
21:14
>> I literally saw one or two hours after
21:17
the raid last night when I was trying to
21:18
change my transmog and that happened
21:20
like I literally yelling
21:21
>> it's so that bug has been occurring that
21:24
bug has been happening to me and has
21:25
never stopped and it is it is for every
21:29
good feature that they've added in this
21:31
system. They have overshined it with a
21:34
really annoying bug. And this is flatly
21:39
one of the buggiest expansions I've ever
21:40
taken part in. like I'm having fun in
21:43
midnight but oh my god the lack of QA
21:46
team shows either the mill because I
21:49
know through scuttlebutt there's about
21:50
80ish QA members show and it's not your
21:52
fault guys you guys are trying I think
21:54
the devs are overwhelmed with this
21:56
release pace and they're not being given
21:58
time to fix things and they need that
22:00
because there's so much stuff right now
22:02
that is just
22:04
>> broken in irritating little ways.
22:06
>> Yeah. I think this comes back to what we
22:07
talked about last week and I think the
22:08
week before,
22:10
>> we talked about how we're overwhelmed
22:11
for choice, right? There's just so much
22:13
going on.
22:15
>> But like when you really break it down,
22:17
maybe like a lot of people, it's easy to
22:20
forget how much is there when you only
22:22
focus on the things you want to engage
22:23
with, which is what you're supposed to
22:25
do. But there's the prey system, the new
22:29
talent systems that are in place with
22:30
the the the new Apex talents, uh the new
22:33
transmogs, the new delves, uh the new uh
22:38
like world zones that are completely
22:40
redone. Everything that interacts with
22:43
like every other aspect of the game is
22:45
essentially been completely reworked.
22:47
All the new crafting stuff, the way the
22:48
crafting works now, like all of these
22:50
things are system changes that are
22:52
pretty major on their own. And
22:57
we would be talking about each one of
22:58
them at length for like 30 minutes and
23:01
there's just these changes. And so like
23:04
I think you're right, Phil. I think
23:06
there is a level of I don't want to call
23:08
it fatigue, but I don't know like in in
23:12
the IT world we talk about signal to
23:15
noise ratio a lot. Um there's this a
23:18
sort of a thing where you can get so
23:20
much noise coming in whether it's uh too
23:24
many emails or an overload of like let's
23:26
say you have monitoring in place and it
23:27
just reports every 10 seconds you know
23:29
you you wind up losing sight of like the
23:32
real issues because there's just so much
23:33
noise happening you lose the signal and
23:36
I'm wondering how much of that is what's
23:38
happening here too just because there's
23:39
so much that needs to be fixed
23:41
>> like I mean we just had another patch
23:43
like today during maintenance like
23:44
another adjustment for classes Yeah.
23:46
Yeah.
23:46
>> And stuff like that. Minor twerk tweaks.
23:49
>> And we and we know there's issues
23:50
internally around prioritization. My
23:52
favorite is there have been
23:54
>> says to me like a triage issue.
23:56
>> Yeah, there were tons of there were tons
23:58
of bugs reported. I I wonder how these
24:01
are getting collected and presented to
24:03
the team to prioritize because as an
24:05
example the heroner had so many bugs
24:08
around transmog specifically
24:11
embarrassingly around their underclo or
24:14
body clipping through transmog um of all
24:17
kinds all both like both body types all
24:21
kinds of stuff. This has been reported
24:23
as far back as the alpha when they or
24:25
the part of the alpha where they first
24:26
became available. And Blizz said in the
24:29
post where they finally said that they
24:31
were going to fix these and did that
24:33
they thought it was a number of small
24:36
isolated issues but they finally
24:39
realized that it was enough accumulated
24:40
issues that they basically bumped it up
24:42
in priority. Like people have been
24:44
reporting this since the alpha in every
24:47
available like the bug report in Reddit
24:50
on the forums like what is happening?
24:52
Where is the disconnect here? Because
24:54
these things were reported in mass but
24:56
it wasn't until it went live and got
24:58
reported that they were like oh this is
25:01
an issue we need to prioritize fixing
25:02
now not in 1205.
25:05
>> Yeah. Yeah. And I think a lot of that a
25:06
lot of that breaks down to like you said
25:09
prioritization, but that is that's
25:11
project management territory where I
25:13
don't know what their project manager
25:15
situation is internally. And I know a
25:18
lot of IT companies or or dev companies
25:21
or a lot of software companies in
25:22
general over the last 10 years have sort
25:25
of dwindled down the number of project
25:27
managers they have
25:28
>> um and have relied on producers. Um like
25:32
a little peak behind the veil, I guess.
25:34
I remember when I interviewed at Riot
25:35
many many many moons ago, producers were
25:38
doing this job straight up instead of uh
25:41
actually having full-time project
25:43
managers. And not only were they doing
25:44
project management, but they were doing
25:46
all their other duties as well. And I'm
25:48
wondering if there's a level of that. I
25:50
don't know the internal structure at
25:51
Blizzard. And I, you know, I'm not going
25:52
to pretend I do, but that would make a
25:55
lot of sense to me like if they're
25:56
having problems with prioritization that
25:58
their project managers are either not
26:00
there or are not doing it full-time.
26:04
>> So swamped.
26:06
>> I mean, there's a Yeah,
26:09
>> we we know when Microsoft bought the
26:11
company, there were some significant
26:12
layoffs at Blizzard. Um, but I also I I
26:17
want to posit that Midnight is a super
26:22
massive expansion.
26:23
>> It's ambitious.
26:24
>> Like it's very ambitious. Not just in
26:26
the ter, you know, we've got the usual
26:29
like X number of zones and each zone has
26:32
a main story quest and some, you know,
26:35
we have kind of that standard stuff, but
26:37
also Prey is a really big, really
26:40
significant system. We also have uh
26:43
three raids coming out. We also had
26:46
player housing in Midnight, which is
26:49
absolutely massive. Player housing
26:52
touches
26:54
every everything in the game for the
26:57
past 20 years. Everything.
27:01
And we have a brand new transmog system
27:04
that completely overhauls how your
27:06
character looks and what they're wearing
27:08
and adds so much depth and customization
27:10
about the situations and so on and so
27:12
forth.
27:13
>> Yeah. I mean like you just you guys were
27:15
just talking about the fact that they've
27:16
made significant changes to raid add-ons
27:19
and before that we were talking about
27:20
significant changes to crafting. It's
27:23
like all of any one of those things
27:26
>> is like a huge like any one of these
27:29
things can be a huge kind of maybe a
27:31
patch defining feature like that's the
27:33
one big feature in a patch or you know
27:37
this is just there's a lot happening
27:39
here they've hugely overhauled the base
27:41
UI in um as a part of stripping out
27:46
add-ons. Personally, I feel like the
27:50
built-in interface could have used like
27:52
another expansion to cook before cutting
27:54
everything off, but it's getting better.
27:57
It's improved by leaps and bounds. I
27:59
don't love it, but it has improved a
28:01
lot. So,
28:02
>> yeah, but that's the issue like that has
28:04
to be part of what you're trying to
28:06
balance while you're also trying to fix
28:07
bugs. And you know if if what again I
28:11
have no idea but if you've got project
28:13
managers doing that they're also trying
28:15
to do like instead of project managers
28:17
you have producers doing it they're also
28:19
trying to do the stuff they do as
28:20
producers.
28:21
>> You've effectively offloaded an entire
28:24
tier of job onto people who already had
28:26
a job. So
28:29
>> we don't know exactly we don't know
28:31
exactly what's going on on the corporate
28:32
side except there have been some
28:34
layoffs. Um, but I look at Midnight and
28:37
I see just dozens of big ambitious
28:40
changes to the game. And I feel like
28:42
Blizzard has stopped doing the when it's
28:45
ready thing, which I I want to make sure
28:49
I want to make sure to say this. I don't
28:51
think that's necessarily a bad thing.
28:53
Instead of having cuz it used to be like
28:57
if they're okay, they want to do changes
28:59
to one class. Well, they've got to have
29:01
changes for all of the classes ready to
29:03
roll out with the expansion and that's
29:05
it. That's your version of the class.
29:07
So, they wouldn't uh you know, like
29:11
they're not going to hold out because
29:13
one feature isn't ready. We've seen them
29:15
do big class overhauls in like a 0.05
29:18
patch because, you know, okay, they
29:21
didn't have the whole thing ready for
29:22
launch, so they're doing it in a 0.05.
29:25
Um, but yeah, I think they're more
29:27
willing because they have this is a
29:30
really ambitious expansion with tons of
29:32
features and also they have been
29:34
sticking to a stricter timeline than
29:36
Blizzard used to stick to. We have a new
29:39
patch every two months. Clockwork.
29:41
They're clockwork about that. So, I it's
29:45
a combination. You have an ambitious
29:46
expansion. You have a lot of new
29:48
features. You have a strict timeline.
29:50
So, bugs are going to get out even if
29:53
they had, you know, perfect staffing.
29:54
you're always going to have something
29:56
that gets through and isn't noticed
29:58
until you have a million players
30:00
pounding at it. So, I I don't love it,
30:03
but I can see I can see where some of
30:05
this is is causing problems. And it's
30:09
it's hard. It's it's tough and it's got
30:11
to be tough for everyone at Blizzard who
30:13
these are people who love the game and
30:16
are trying to do their best, but they're
30:18
under really tight deadlines
30:19
>> just scale. You combine deadlines with
30:22
scale on this front. It's very easy to
30:25
miss things. I do think it's, as Phil
30:27
pointed out, you've got everyone's
30:29
reporting it, but since it's, you know,
30:31
it's, is it that they didn't notice
30:33
everyone was reporting it? Did they
30:35
assume what they were reporting was one
30:36
thing and then it turned out to be
30:38
another, or was it simply that they
30:39
thought they had more time to devote to
30:42
other things and then realized, oh, no,
30:44
we do not. Like, there's there's no way
30:47
to know, but there's lots of ways that
30:48
these interlocking parts can cause
30:50
mayhem. So, but regardless, that's been
30:54
going on.
30:55
>> We'll know in like 10 years when Jason
30:58
Shrier writes another book
31:00
>> or, you know, somebody who's currently
31:01
on the team starts trying to sell his
31:03
game about adventuring in New England.
31:06
Um, but let's talk about the Twitch drop
31:09
that's coming on the 26th because it's a
31:12
void murloc for your house.
31:14
>> It is. It's a It's a void murloc plushy.
31:17
It's not just it's not just a shadow
31:20
murloc coming to kill you. It might
31:22
still be coming to kill you. I don't
31:23
know.
31:23
>> I am possible. I mean, for all that for
31:26
all I know, there's there's a regular
31:27
murloc coming to kill you, but
31:29
regardless,
31:29
>> it'll be it'll be adorable and plush
31:31
while it's trying to kill you and you
31:32
know a lot of things.
31:33
>> It's like it'll be
31:38
anyway. Um, so yeah, that's on the 26th.
31:40
Uh, how do we get this thing? Like what
31:42
do we do with this?
31:43
>> So it's it's Twitch drop on the 26th.
31:46
You can watch 4 hours of a World of
31:48
Warcraft streamer on Twitch and yeah,
31:52
collect your collect your shiny new
31:54
murloc and you should be able to if you
31:56
want more murlocs, you should be able to
31:58
buy more in-game after that if you want
32:01
to.
32:02
>> Do we know how long this is lasting for?
32:04
Because it' be Thursday, March 26th
32:06
until like the next week.
32:07
>> It's a month. It's a month. It's lasting
32:10
into mid or late April.
32:12
>> All right, cool. Um, we also have time.
32:14
>> Yeah, we've got Missandaria Classic
32:16
phase 4, the escalation uh patch phase
32:19
essentially. Escalation I believe goes
32:22
up to the raid like is it Siege of Ormar
32:24
or is it before that?
32:24
>> It's not. It's pre siege of Ormar. So
32:26
it's
32:27
>> that whole you could get the you could
32:29
get the armor set that looked like
32:30
you're a dungeon set too
32:32
>> and and you do the whole rebellion quest
32:34
chain like you're getting up to the
32:36
gates of Siege of Warmar but you're not
32:38
starting the raid is next phase.
32:40
>> Gotcha. All right. Um, from my memory of
32:43
this, it was actually a lot of fun and I
32:44
really enjoyed getting the set. Um, but
32:48
it does you get to the point where
32:50
there's this is a a lot of content um,
32:53
escalation. It's it's not a lot of
32:55
content story-wise, but there's a lot of
32:57
places to go to kill things to hopefully
32:59
get your tier sets and a lot of like
33:01
feeling really weird about attacking the
33:03
crossroads on your torin. Um, I don't
33:06
know how else to put this. It was like,
33:08
why am I attack? Oh, right, right. sea
33:10
vorgar. We're we're now teaming up uh
33:13
with the alliance to attack our own
33:15
capital city. This is weird.
33:16
>> Anyone else feel like this is weird?
33:18
Just me? Whatever.
33:19
>> But yeah, I had fun with it back in the
33:21
day. So, I I am interested to see how
33:23
long the this phase lasts because Mr.
33:26
Pandaria Classic has been pretty regular
33:28
with its phases. So, I think that will
33:30
probably come really quickly. Go ahead,
33:32
Liz.
33:32
>> All of all of the classic have been
33:35
moving through patches faster than
33:38
original. So I hope when we get to phase
33:40
five it doesn't last for what 18 months.
33:42
>> I just felt like the clammy hand of
33:44
death go down my spine.
33:47
>> I remember
33:48
>> sounds unfortunately.
33:49
>> Did anyone else tank in that raid?
33:51
>> Oh god.
33:52
>> Let me reach back to the myisty depths
33:54
of memory know I was DPSing that
33:55
expansion.
33:56
>> You get you get into that fight with
33:58
like the Norishen fight and then the
34:00
fight after Norishen with the Sha and it
34:03
is just brutal. They get you get
34:05
teleported downstairs to try and tank
34:08
everything and use the buff to Oh boy.
34:12
Not a lot of fun. So yeah, I'm not
34:14
looking forward to that. But I do I did
34:16
love Siege of Ormar. So I'm hoping that
34:19
it doesn't last 18 months because that's
34:23
that's a bit much.
34:24
>> I want to say Siege was when I first
34:27
started raiding with TTGF when I left
34:29
Matt's guild.
34:30
>> I think it was
34:31
>> not my guild. The other Matt
34:32
>> the other Matt Matakus. the other mass.
34:34
>> Yeah, I remember
34:35
>> I was in fact I joined and left that
34:37
guild before you did. I mean, after you
34:38
did join and left. Um, but yeah, it's it
34:42
was a it wasn't a terrible exper like I
34:45
said, it wasn't a terrible raid or
34:46
anything. I liked it as a raid.
34:47
>> I like the raid a lot. It was just long.
34:49
>> Yeah, you just found yourself like a
34:51
year after you started, you were still
34:52
there and you're like, "Oh, well, I'm
34:55
sure that the expansion's coming in
34:57
another six months." Yeah, that was the
34:59
moment where that's the moment where we
35:00
had to make our own fun by doing things
35:02
like tanking the roof shamans on top of
35:04
the buildings in the in Oramar or uh
35:08
uh for a while we figured out how to get
35:10
behind uh like up and behind the
35:13
unfinished parts of the raid. And so
35:15
it's just like well uh we're all bored
35:17
of raid this week, but let's just go
35:18
exploring the back end of Siege of Orar.
35:21
We did a thing where we cited the, you
35:23
know, the uh the trash in the the crate
35:26
room
35:27
>> where you had to go and unlock the other
35:28
door so you could go into the next part
35:30
of the crate room.
35:31
>> There was a way to get everything to
35:33
come running to you.
35:36
>> I think it was a death knight thing.
35:37
They had like a their their big taunt
35:39
that would like grabbed people and
35:41
pulled them
35:42
through the door.
35:43
>> Yeah. They could get mobbed through the
35:45
door so they would pull a bunch of them
35:47
in and then everything would come in.
35:49
And we've been in there for a year at
35:50
this point. Like we had mythic we had
35:53
like in this was our first mythic raid I
35:55
believe. Um what was it? Was it heroic?
35:57
I don't know.
35:58
>> That was the one.
35:59
>> We had uh we we're all geared to the
36:01
teeth at this point because we've been
36:02
in there for like a year. So we were
36:04
like go ahead just pull the room. Pull
36:06
the whole room. Get everything in here.
36:09
On the other side they'd be like yeah
36:10
we're going to do that too. Oh we don't
36:12
have a death knight. How do we get them
36:13
to do that? It turned out if we did it
36:15
they did it on the other side too. the
36:17
but they came to us. So there's a that
36:21
was a that was an experience. Um anyway,
36:24
yeah, 18 months got people real
36:27
trigger happy on weird things. I think
36:29
weren't you guys doing the fights
36:31
literally on top of the bank.
36:32
>> Mhm.
36:33
>> Yeah. I remember
36:35
>> uh Yeah, we Oh god. It's uh it was the
36:39
auction house is where we had them cuz
36:41
>> Well, it wasn't just the auction house.
36:42
It was the auction house and I think we
36:43
had to do the main
36:44
>> the building next to Yeah. Yeah. cuz you
36:46
could get up on top of where the
36:48
blacksmith is in Orgamar. They had
36:50
enough platforms like scaffolding
36:52
outside of it in the siege version to
36:54
where you could hop on the roof and then
36:55
once you were on the roof there, you
36:57
could make your way around across uh the
36:59
warchief's room and then across the
37:01
street. Like I think there was a warlock
37:03
portal involved at one point. So if
37:04
anybody fell off, they were hosed on
37:06
getting back. Um, but then they were one
37:10
of those bosses where if you if you sent
37:13
someone to fight them, they would just
37:15
snap to whoever had aggro on them. Uh,
37:18
which we've which we used to great
37:19
effect another time, too. But yeah, they
37:21
um Yeah. So, we fought them. We fought
37:24
them on top of the the bank and the or
37:25
not the bank, the uh yeah, I said the
37:27
auction house and the couple buildings
37:29
around it. Yeah, if you search rooftop
37:31
shamans, uh like it
37:34
>> if you search rooftop shamans,
37:35
>> it's like the only video on the internet
37:37
of it like that exists. I think it's
37:38
still I'm 90% sure it's still up.
37:41
>> Um
37:41
>> yeah, it is. Uh
37:42
>> and then we have our crural as well as
37:44
up there as well.
37:45
>> Yeah, if you It does work actually. If
37:47
you put in the exact phrase uh Joe said,
37:49
rooftop shamans, you find the video
37:51
called world first roof dark shamans
37:53
from 11 years ago.
37:56
Uh
37:58
okay, I just got to read this. I did
37:59
realize we had an actual write up on it.
38:01
>> We did.
38:01
>> Disadvant D disadvantages to roof
38:04
shamans. Limited space to count foul
38:06
slimes. Limited place to place ash and
38:08
walls. Difficulty jumping required to
38:09
reach rooftops. Bosses may randomly
38:11
despawn. Players may fall off the roof
38:14
and out of the fight. Fight is harder in
38:15
every way. Advantages to roof shaman.
38:18
You get to be awesome. Raid gets to see
38:20
who probably struggled with the black
38:22
fathom deep ledge jump. You get to make
38:24
up fun names for rooftops like mushroom
38:26
hut. I'm glad I wasn't there for this
38:28
because I did struggle very much with
38:30
the Black Fathom Beeps jump. So, yeah.
38:34
But, uh, talking about other things,
38:35
there's a new WoW music video
38:38
summarizing 20 years of WoW in two
38:40
minutes. I got to feel like there's some
38:42
things cut out. Um,
38:44
>> yeah, it's it's it's doing its best.
38:47
>> I just love you when you when you say
38:49
things like that because it just you you
38:50
sound like you're just it's okay. You're
38:52
doing your best little video.
38:54
Um, but yeah,
38:56
>> I got nothing.
38:58
>> I'm sorry. I was not hosting.
39:00
>> It It just came out today. You're You're
39:02
not behind. Um,
39:03
>> okay. I just haven't seen it. Wait, hold
39:05
on.
39:06
>> It just It came out today. Um, it just
39:08
makes you feel like, okay, this great
39:11
Where's the Where's Where's the rest of
39:12
this animated series that you were
39:14
clearly making? Uh, which to clarify,
39:18
they about announced an animated series.
39:20
It's just like you're you're right there
39:22
on the cusp of having a really awesome
39:24
animated series.
39:26
>> Right now, guys, I'm just going to throw
39:27
this out here. Animation style. Wow,
39:29
this is a lot better than the Arthur
39:31
thing. The Arator video isn't this isn't
39:33
this cool?
39:33
>> It's very cool.
39:35
>> It is very cool.
39:36
>> Okay, Liz. This is cool. Yeah, I know. I
39:38
don't I want this Wow series now. You
39:40
guys have been Amazon. You've been doing
39:42
you know so many animated shows. You did
39:45
Fallout. Do this. Paramount. Don't do
39:48
anything. Please don't touch it. I I've
39:50
watched all of Halo. What have you done?
39:53
What have you done? But no, this is
39:56
actually really cool. But it does really
39:58
it's it I think it's doing its best is a
40:00
really good way to put it because
40:02
there's like they just got to the
40:04
deadlines and it's like yikes. Okay, we
40:07
got a lot going on guys. We're still in
40:09
the deadlines. We got to move this a
40:10
little. I mean, it's it's catching that
40:13
vibe of, you know, you started way back
40:16
here, leveling your way through Dun
40:20
Morog, and you made friends, you kept
40:24
playing, you took down Illan, you took
40:27
down the Lich King, and now you're here
40:29
in Midnight sitting around the fire. You
40:32
know, it's kind of got that uh, you
40:34
know, a lot of
40:35
>> add-ons for this.
40:38
It's just a lot of old school uh WoW
40:40
players will really vibe with that
40:42
feeling because this is a really social
40:45
game and I think there are a lot of
40:47
people who have the experience this
40:48
video is showing off. So it's it's very
40:51
much a nostalgia bomb because it's sort
40:54
of hitting big moments from the distant
40:56
past and like yeah I remember that. I
41:02
remember doing that. I remember trekking
41:04
all the way from Teldrasil across
41:07
continent and dying 50 times. Uh
41:11
>> level one human warrior. My wife who's
41:13
been playing for like a month before I
41:15
even started tells me that to come over
41:17
to Telrael and level there. So I have to
41:20
run take the train down to to Iron Forge
41:24
run from Iron Forge all the way to
41:27
Manithil Harbor to get a boat to go to
41:31
Teldrasil. So many things killed me. I
41:33
got three levels just from like zone
41:35
experience.
41:38
You've gained it 10 XP for surviving
41:39
this long. So yeah, I I I'm sad now, but
41:43
also happy. Um, we should also mention
41:46
like the WoW character services, you
41:48
know, stuff like like level boosts or
41:50
moving your character to another server.
41:52
>> I don't I don't know that level boosts
41:54
are on the sale, but um
41:56
>> there are various things on sale. You
41:57
can check that out. Yeah, like server
41:59
transfers, name changes, uh uh faction
42:03
transfers, race changes, uh that stuff.
42:07
So, you know, I I race changed a
42:09
character like four weeks ago, and I I
42:13
could have waited, but I didn't.
42:15
>> I may be from a blood elf.
42:18
>> I changed to a blood elf.
42:19
>> That makes much more sense. I was like,
42:21
you didn't switch away from a blood elf,
42:22
did you? That's like finding out Joe
42:24
decided he wants to play as a night elf.
42:26
It's like I've I've never race changed a
42:29
character before, but I was like I'm I'm
42:32
going into the ultimate elf expansion
42:34
and it just feels it feels weird. This
42:37
character used to be a troll. Also very
42:40
cool. Now they're a blood elf which is
42:42
also very cool just in a totally
42:44
different way.
42:45
>> To be fair, all elves were trolls at
42:47
some point. Yeah, just
42:51
>> Yeah, that's that's how I'm that's how
42:53
I'm justifying playing a her andire
42:54
during the elf expansion.
42:56
>> Just
42:58
elf.
42:58
>> That's how that's how I'm justifying it.
42:59
I'm playing my my druids a herander. Uh
43:02
the reason is here and I'm the missing
43:03
link. Sweet. Let's go. Now I want I if I
43:06
had a a horde guild to hang out with, I
43:08
would probably make my uh I had a a
43:10
nighttororn warrior that I really But uh
43:12
at this point before we move on to other
43:14
games, I'm going to actually turn to Liz
43:16
and say it's probably a good time to do
43:18
site news.
43:18
>> Uh yes, I want to say thank you to
43:21
everyone out there listening. I really
43:24
appreciate you guys. You showing up
43:25
every week to listen to our podcast is
43:27
what keeps us going. But a tiny little
43:30
extra shout out to our subscribers on
43:33
Patreon who do that little extra that
43:36
just your financial support helps the
43:39
site thrive and grow. Not just survive,
43:42
but thrive. So, we're we're a little low
43:45
on Patreon right now. So, if you can
43:47
toss us two a few bucks, that really
43:50
helps us out. And I understand times are
43:53
tough. If you can't support us
43:54
financially, just being here means so
43:57
much and helps us a ton. Um, so one of
44:02
the ways you can help us out without
44:04
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44:07
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44:09
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44:51
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44:53
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44:55
Specify the show in the subject line and
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45:01
You can also contact us on Discord and
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45:05
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45:11
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45:14
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45:16
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45:19
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45:22
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45:23
So if you can do those things, great. If
45:25
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45:27
listening, reading, and sharing our
45:30
content. That keeps us all going. Thank
45:32
you so much.
45:34
>> And thank you to Liz for doing that. And
45:36
now that Liz has talked all that time
45:38
and needs a drink, be able to talk about
45:39
something depressing because it's
45:40
depressing. Uh, Epic Games, if you guys
45:44
know what Epic Games is, you've heard of
45:45
Epic Games, the Epic Games Store, all
45:46
that stuff. They just laid off a
45:48
thousand people.
45:49
>> It's It's tough time in the gaming
45:50
industry.
45:51
>> And they sent a letter out to basically
45:53
I don't know if it was to everyone at
45:55
Epic or just the people they were
45:57
>> It was to all employees.
45:58
>> Yeah. But the letter is I don't want to
46:01
say disturbingly frank, but I don't know
46:02
the other word to put
46:04
>> for when somebody just admits
46:06
>> I've seen much more atrocious stuff than
46:08
this, honestly.
46:09
>> Yeah.
46:10
I'm not worse. It's we're at a point
46:14
where the people doing the laying off
46:16
are just flat out saying, "Look, the
46:18
game is the most popular game in the
46:20
world, but we didn't make as much money
46:22
as we needed to, so we're cutting a um
46:25
it's just frank. It's just it's kind of
46:28
like when you get shot by the villain in
46:30
a in a western and he just comes up to
46:32
you and says, "Sorry I had to kill your
46:34
paw like that." I mean, it just it's
46:36
just there.
46:38
to the point where it's just they are in
46:39
the industry.
46:40
>> Yeah. I I think though that I'd rather
46:42
have this frankness than the usual
46:46
flowery BS that companies try to put out
46:49
there and to their employees like, oh,
46:52
it's best for you and you know, this is
46:54
ultimately going to be a good thing for
46:56
you. They're they're acknowledging that
46:57
this stinks, right? Right. I'm And
47:00
again, I'm not trying to paint them as
47:01
like any sort of like superhero or
47:03
anything here, but they're very frank
47:06
about, like you said, they're very very
47:07
upfront about it. They're very, we are
47:09
cutting a thousand uh positions. We are
47:12
letting you go because we didn't hit our
47:14
numbers. Um you could read between the
47:16
lines on that one. They are owned by 10
47:17
cent. Just throwing that out there.
47:20
>> Um this is also at a point in time where
47:22
uh Fortnite is currently not on mobile
47:25
markets in other places of the world.
47:27
And uh that is a huge huge huge hit for
47:31
them. Uh because it is a top 100 app on
47:34
the mobile store at least in North
47:35
America and I imagine that it is
47:37
elsewhere. Uh and not having it in
47:39
certain countries is probably really
47:41
diminishing what their what their market
47:43
share used to be. Um but I will say that
47:46
they are at least one offering people
47:49
severance packages which is unheard of
47:52
with most of these other layoffs that
47:54
have happened in um they're basing it
47:57
off of the minimum is four months of
47:59
base pay uh with more base off of
48:01
tenure. We don't know what that is but I
48:02
mean still that's more than most other
48:04
companies have been doing when they do
48:05
the uh and then they're also expend
48:07
extending the uh epic paid healthcare
48:09
coverage for 6 months. Now it that I
48:13
don't know the details on that obviously
48:15
and that could be you know you still
48:17
have to pay X amount or whatever the
48:18
case is or it may be covered in Cobra
48:20
but if they did it like when I got laid
48:23
off uh in 2019 way back when the company
48:27
actually paid for my health insurance
48:29
for a year like they I didn't pay
48:31
anything out of pocket for it. So if
48:32
they're doing something similar like
48:33
that 6 months of healthcare coverage in
48:35
this economy is pretty dang good. So
48:38
like it's not great. I'm not going to
48:40
say people losing their jobs is ever a
48:42
good thing, but it pro it could have
48:44
been a lot worse. Um, and yeah, it's
48:48
unfortunately it's where we're at. Like
48:49
Liz said, the industry, it's a tough
48:52
time to be in the game industry. It's a
48:53
tough time to be a developer, to be
48:56
somebody who wants to make these games,
48:58
and it has been for a while. It's been
48:59
ups and downs. Uh, but I mean, we expect
49:03
this. The one thing I will say that they
49:04
did call out is that it's not AI
49:06
related. And Epic's been I don't know
49:09
how true that is, but they specifically
49:11
said it's like, listen, I know this is
49:13
the hotness and we shouldn't have to say
49:14
this, but this has nothing to do with us
49:16
trying to implement AI. Um, we'd rather
49:19
have people. We'd rather have talent.
49:21
We'd rather have everybody working here,
49:23
which
49:24
>> well, if they'd rather have everybody
49:25
working there, I feel this is a good
49:27
time to point out that Tim Sweeney is
49:28
worth $2.9 billion
49:30
>> 100%. which is what exactly what my next
49:32
statement was going to be because
49:33
>> and this is exactly why all those
49:35
articles start started coming out last
49:36
week. Oh, Tim Tim Sweeny's been using
49:38
his $2.9 billion valuation to buy
49:40
forests for wildlife conservation. Yeah,
49:42
because Tim Sweeney knows he's going to
49:43
need a publicity booster in about a
49:45
week.
49:45
>> We're we're conserving wildlife, not
49:48
game developers.
49:50
>> It's still legal.
49:52
>> And it's like I I'm with Joe. I do agree
49:54
that this is one of the most generous
49:55
severance packages I've seen in the game
49:57
industry, but also it is 6 months at
49:59
most when it can take people up to a
50:00
year to get resettled in this industry.
50:02
>> If they get if they Yeah, assuming they
50:05
don't just filter back out of the
50:06
industry and no one is safe. The game
50:08
director of Fortnite got fired.
50:11
>> That's what it boils down to. Like
50:16
>> this is such a horrible situation
50:18
>> and I'm pointing the finger directly at
50:20
these CEOs and greedy shareholders. take
50:23
some take some of that 2.9 billion and
50:25
hire your thousand people back.
50:27
>> Yeah. Meanwhile, like another thing
50:28
that's happening is is smaller
50:30
developers that we kind of hoped would
50:31
be kind of picking up the torch and and
50:34
doing a lot of new cool stuff are
50:36
getting destroyed, too. Um the uh I
50:39
forget the name at the moment and I feel
50:40
really bad, but I don't have the ability
50:41
to look it up. Um the publisher for
50:45
Greedfall: The Dying Earth uh is
50:48
basically going into receiverhip and the
50:50
game hasn't even come out yet. like the
50:52
game is just releasing and the people
50:54
who are going to be doing things like
50:56
bug fixes are gone.
50:58
>> Uh that would be spiders by the way.
51:00
>> No, Spiders is still there. They're the
51:01
>> develop developer
51:03
>> publisher is gone.
51:05
>> Oh,
51:06
>> and this is happening all over the place
51:09
like companies that are moderate sized
51:13
like like look at like one of the game
51:15
companies that came out recently.
51:17
>> Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. And it's just
51:20
>> look at Dream Haven when they came out.
51:23
>> Everyone was like, "Dream Haven, they've
51:24
got all these people from Blizzard. It's
51:25
going to" And you know, neither of the
51:27
games they put out succeeded really. I
51:30
mean, I didn't think they were bad. I
51:31
thought they were pretty good,
51:33
>> but yeah, I think they they were games
51:35
that did all right, but weren't
51:38
incredible. Yeah,
51:41
the the industry is going for incredible
51:43
>> if you don't, you know, it's very rare
51:46
for a company to be able to do what
51:47
Larry did, which is build up, you know,
51:50
with games that were successful and
51:53
improve incrementally and then finally
51:55
get your big game after you've spent
51:57
years perfecting your craft. A lot of
51:59
companies are going to be like spiders
52:01
where now they have to desperately hunt
52:03
for another publisher. And I would like
52:05
to point out that the other side of that
52:06
coin too is that becomes an increasingly
52:08
difficult perspective for developers in
52:11
the current economic state at least here
52:13
in North America and I imagine the rest
52:14
of the world is tightening their belt as
52:16
well. And I see this you know
52:19
>> with the game store right like we we are
52:21
a luxury item.
52:23
>> Um and so like we we are very cognizant
52:27
to when people stop spending money and
52:31
video games are not immune from that and
52:33
we all get it. We we understand it. Like
52:35
if you're listening to this, you're
52:36
likely playing World of Warcraft and
52:38
you're likely paying your monthly,
52:40
yearly,
52:42
uh whatever subscription for World of
52:45
Warcraft. You might that might be the
52:47
only thing you play all year round
52:49
because that's the game you pay for.
52:50
That's what you've budgeted for. And
52:52
that might be a choice that you're
52:54
making now when like years ago you may
52:56
have been like, I'm paying for my WO
52:58
subscription, but maybe I'm picking up
52:59
another MMO on the side or maybe I'm
53:02
playing this other AAA game or maybe I'm
53:04
playing this handful of indie games. And
53:06
a lot of us do that, but that's becoming
53:08
>> Mass Effect 3's coming out in a couple
53:09
weeks. I'm definitely playing that as
53:10
opposed to now.
53:12
>> Mass Effect four, Mass Effect five or
53:14
whatever it's called now. Might be out
53:15
soon, but I have no idea if I'll even be
53:17
able to get myself to buy that.
53:18
>> But yeah, but the point is like our
53:19
spending patterns change. Sorry. Go
53:21
ahead, Liz. Oh yeah, absolutely. Because
53:23
while the you people talk a lot about
53:24
the game package pricing not having
53:26
increased to keep in touch with
53:28
inflation, it there are more ways for
53:31
them to take money from you
53:33
>> and I just don't have it because the
53:36
other thing that didn't go up with
53:38
inflation is my income.
53:41
>> You know, it's it's not like a lot of
53:43
people just don't have the disposable
53:46
income they used to have.
53:47
>> I know Liz was going to say something
53:48
there. I mean, if we're if we're
53:50
seriously talking about Mass Effect 5 or
53:52
whatever they're going to call it, I
53:53
don't think it's ever going to be
53:54
released, but that's
53:55
>> Well, we thought that about Dragon Age 3
53:58
and I mean, it came out. Not
54:00
>> uh Yeah, it it came out and it killed
54:02
the company, so
54:04
>> at this point they're just like, "Oh
54:06
god, maybe we can get to the finish
54:08
line." So, yeah.
54:10
>> Yeah, I don't think so. It's not looking
54:13
good for fans of Mass Effect. Yeah, I
54:15
mean it's not um so yeah, it it's a
54:20
rough industry. It's it's had a bad I'd
54:23
say since 2020, we've seen some pretty
54:26
horrible times for people who work in
54:28
the industry. Not that there weren't bad
54:30
times before this. I'm just the past
54:32
five years of six years have not been
54:34
great uh for people who work in We could
54:36
even talk about game journalism getting
54:37
hit. We could do that too if we wanted.
54:40
Oh god. I mean, we we live through that.
54:42
Literally,
54:44
>> are currently still living through it.
54:46
>> Yeah. Well, yeah, you do what you can,
54:49
but yeah, it's it's sad to see our
54:50
favorite industry taking a hit. Uh, you
54:53
know, another developer that nearly
54:56
perished was um the guys that made
54:59
Dispatch.
55:00
>> Mhm.
55:01
>> Before they were releasing Dispatch,
55:03
they were on the verge of closing down.
55:05
You know, none of the founders were
55:08
taking paychecks just so they could keep
55:10
the company going, and they were like
55:12
right on the cusp of taking a really bad
55:14
publishing deal just to get the game
55:17
out. And that probably would have
55:19
resulted in the studio folding shortly
55:20
after release.
55:22
>> And then Laura Bailey decided to throw
55:24
her weight around. And thank you, Laura,
55:25
because it's an
55:26
>> Yeah. Uh yeah, the with support from
55:29
Critical Role, they managed to finish
55:31
that game and they have a contract for
55:32
another game for Critical Role. So, it's
55:34
like this was a great game that everyone
55:37
every gamer I know before Dispatch came
55:40
out was hyped about Dispatch. It had
55:42
such a a smashingly good reaction to the
55:45
trailer and everyone was excited about
55:48
it, but at the same time, the developers
55:51
were on the verge of having to close up
55:53
shop because that's it's this is tough
55:56
times and there are so many potentially
55:58
great games that we may not be seeing.
56:00
And in the meantime, we have things like
56:03
uh I I always get the name Highgate.
56:05
High guard.
56:07
>> High guard.
56:09
>> High guard.
56:09
>> High guard.
56:10
>> Totally not Overwatch.
56:13
>> No.
56:13
>> Then there's like Immortals of Avium. Do
56:15
you guys remember Immortals of Avium?
56:17
>> Nope.
56:18
>> It was an EA game that came out. It was
56:20
actually good,
56:21
>> but it came out at the same time as
56:23
Balders's Gate 3.
56:24
>> Oh.
56:25
>> And it's like, what do you want to play?
56:27
Boulders Gate 3 or this magical version
56:31
of like Halo? It's it's seriously
56:34
there's it's just a it's like a cover
56:36
looter shooter where you're a magician.
56:39
>> You mean what happened when uh in 2020
56:41
when Immortals Phoenix Rising released
56:43
and what else came out in 2020 at that
56:44
exact same time that
56:45
>> Yeah. Link which I forget which uh Zelda
56:49
game it was. It was either um Tears of
56:51
the Kingdom or the one before.
56:52
>> It was Breath.
56:53
>> Breath. Okay. Breath of the Wild just
56:55
came out and stomped up and down on it
56:57
like with hobna boots. Uh and the worst
56:59
part was obviously Immortals uh Phoenix
57:02
Rising was like a love letter to Zelda.
57:05
>> It was a It was a great game, too.
57:07
>> Yeah, it's a great game. But you good
57:09
poor. But anyway, yeah, we we we could
57:12
keep doing this, but we at some point
57:14
need to move on. Um do we have time for
57:16
this one question?
57:17
>> I'm still waiting for haunted chocolate.
57:20
>> Oh, I I have stories to tell you about
57:22
that. actually,
57:22
>> but instead instead the developer is
57:25
still doing
57:26
>> is still doing so many cool things on
57:28
Stardew Valley. And I'm not going to
57:30
complain about that. But also, man,
57:32
Haunted Chocolier sounds so cool. I
57:35
can't wait to play it.
57:36
>> I literally heard like the other day a
57:38
bunch of people who cover that game for
57:40
uh YouTube talking about patch 1.6 for
57:43
Stardew versus, you know, is he is he
57:46
working on Haunted Chocolier? What's
57:47
going on there? Um,
57:49
>> I don't I don't want to put undue
57:52
pressure on the guy. He
57:53
>> Do not press Mr. Dape. He He will No, do
57:56
not.
57:57
>> It'll be done when it's done. It's like
57:59
the Magpie games that I'm waiting to be
58:01
released that they're going to be done
58:04
when they're done. It doesn't matter how
58:05
much I want them to be done right this
58:07
second. Eventually, they will exist.
58:10
>> Well, yeah. Okay. Then therefore, guys,
58:12
uh, that's the podcast. Thank you
58:14
everybody. Thank you for Phil for coming
58:16
in and and being our fourth chair. We
58:19
appreciate it.
58:19
>> Oh, I appreciate getting getting the
58:22
chance. It's great.
58:22
>> Don't wear green goblin armor at any
58:24
point. Okay. Or the hobgoblin. Don't
58:26
dress up to Sammy either. It's bad for
58:28
people who almost have the same name
58:29
issue.
58:30
>> I I don't even know if I know what that
58:32
one looks like. I'm I'm
58:34
>> the hobgoblins. We are not getting into
58:37
that on this podcast.
58:38
>> Good night, folks.
58:41
>> Good night, everybody.
58:42
>> It's been the Wizards podcast. Thank you
58:44
guys. Thank you to Joe and Liz for being
58:46
here as always and keeping the show
58:47
going. Thank you to you who listen to
58:49
the show for that as well. Take care
58:51
everybody and have a good night. We'll
58:53
be back next