Up next in 10
Matt and Joe are joined by Liz as they wrap up their discussion of the events in Diablo 4 Vessel of Hatred. They cover how the final confrontation of the campaign sets up the next chapter in the game’s story, the larger motivations of Mephisto, and the influence of corporate monetization strategies on the depth of storytelling.
Also, multitasking with your mouth. No, really, it makes sense when you hear it. I hope.
As usual, spoilers abound.
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[Music]
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hello and welcome to lore watch Round Table free for discussion about lur your favorite media I'm your host Joe prz one
0:14
of several lower focused folks from blizzard watch and I've got my stupendous co-host with me today Matt R
0:20
how you doing today Matt I am trying to get chips in been between talking and it's harder than I
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thought almost like doing multiple things at once that involve your mouth I probably not a good idea but I encourage
0:33
you to live your best life uh that other person chuckling there is our editor-in chief who's joining us today Liz Harper
0:40
how you doing today Liz howdy having having three of us should make it easier to eat chips in between talking indeed
0:47
that's my opinion I would agree with that statement well live in the
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dream uh we're going to be continuing to talk about Diablo 4 vessel of hatred
0:58
campaign uh so just like the last episode there are spoilers here uh if you have not
1:06
finished the campaign come back and listen to it when you're done and uh see if our thoughts align with yours cuz I'm
1:12
always curious to hear what people think about this stuff where last we left off uh Nel had and you had just gone off to
1:20
uh discover the secrets of where akarat's tomb lies uh and aou had just
1:26
shown back up with a very cold expression of showing up and saying that
1:32
he has to see this through to the end um do you want to describe what happens
1:37
next mat or do you want me to just kind of run through it I mean I honestly kind of want to see her Liz describe it
1:43
because that way we get to see yeah you go Joe okay uh so you wind up going
1:50
through and and when he pops back up you're Nel is trying to recite the
1:56
incantation that will open up the way to akarat's tomb uh this way is located on a a Cliffs
2:03
side looks like there's a ton of water and uh like a hidden thing like you're going to get you you get the impression
2:09
that well you're going down into this water one way or another but when she says the words that you have discovered
2:15
nothing happens this is when aou pops up and does the whole you know I'm going to
2:20
help you and says the words you speak were not meant for one mouth I will
2:27
start you join in with me and it's at this point that uh the observant among
2:32
us would have noticed that the stone glyph that they that Neu was praying to or Nel was praying to or reciting the
2:39
incantation had three distinct stones on it uh and as a starts the incantation
2:45
and Nel joins in and you finish it all three light up and the way is open uh
2:51
the Water Parts uh fish are left flopping on the ground uh and You Begin
2:57
your journey down into The Descent that will will lead you into akarat's tomb you make your way through in
3:04
battles and Su as different aquatic creatures that are I can't tell if they
3:09
were like hatred based or if they were just your run-of-the-mill standard
3:15
Sanctuary uh semi drowned monstrosities cuz Sanctuary nothing's safe you can't
3:21
even take the kids to the pool anymore who knows half the time it's Mage War it's like you know who knows where these
3:27
things came from never mind yeah so you make your way through there's a couple uh additional stones that you find uh
3:35
they require you to recite it it's basically like checkpoints as you make your way down to it uh I think it's
3:40
interesting that the vision of akarat as the lion is in the background watching you every time you stop to make the
3:49
recitation uh which I thought was kind of interesting basically judging you seeing if you were worthy or just kind
3:54
of making sure that Nell was on the right path you eventually make yourself your way to to the tomb you find your
4:01
way in and well it's interesting I guess would be the best way to put it when you
4:08
make your way into akarat's tomb it is this perfect Junction of spirit realm
4:15
and Physical Realm it I'm trying to think of how else to describe it Matt how would you describe it I mean you
4:22
just did the the interaction between the Physical Realm and the spirit realm you're jumping back and forth a bit and
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uh a lot of it has to do with the the fact that you're in the Tomb of akarat and the tomb is as we find out from the
4:36
entire expansion we just did it was built by the dedicant the people that were essentially his I'm just going to
4:43
use the word Apostles because that's the right word uh the people who were his Apostles his his closest friends and
4:49
there's a whole point kind of that kind of gets glossed a little bit that I think is really interesting in that
4:55
aarat didn't want any of this no he didn't he didn't he didn't
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religion the exact quote from the spirit of aarat is I never wanted immortalized
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never wanted my words cited in the justification of wrongdoing the Zach room did all of that and
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worse yeah and he's he very much from the from the during his life he just
5:18
wanted them to like try to live good lives after he was gone but they loved him so much that they wouldn't they
5:24
couldn't let him go and that's why the spirit even exists the spirit even says I don't know if I'm the spirit of akarat
5:33
or just some memory of him like there's there's a good deal of confusion as to
5:38
what the spirit is in the in the spirit's eyes um it's obviously related to akarat this is obviously the tomb
5:45
where its power is drawn from and he talks about the ritual that they did to pin a part of his Spirit here in this in
5:53
the spirit world but there's no specific answers like nothing is is 100% certain
5:59
about this and it's really to my mind it is one of the more interesting things they've done with uh this kind of thing
6:05
in Diablo history agreed you know but regardless yeah that's that's how I
6:10
would describe that yeah and when you first get there it's uh looks like an
6:16
empty underground water cave cuz that's kind of what it is and Nel basically makes the statement of what am I you
6:22
know did we come here for nothing what is this place uh and aru says no you
6:28
just are not in the right shift right which is what Matt alluded to was saying
6:33
that you know they they you switch back and forth uh you go into the spirit realm and you see akarat's perfectly
6:41
preserved body uh not decayed in the slightest laid upon a slab uh just
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sitting there waiting in in rest and akarat's Spirit uh greets you
6:54
essentially and you are witnessing as Nel finally decides to let go and remit
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the stone to the care of akarat and akarat's body uh it is at this point
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where aru who you know sees akarat you think he's just going off to the side
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and you you know doing his dedicant prayers or whatever uh but then after
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the stone has left Nel's care you look over and there's blood coming out of aru
7:25
because aru at this point it is revealed has made a deal with Mesto when Maka
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died it would appear that misto made a deal with aru that if aru would
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essentially take the Soul Stone and cram it into akarat's body or at least take
7:47
it to where it needs to go in order for uh Mesto to use it as his new vessel
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that he would spare nantu that everything would be okay uh for just ER
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the rest of the world ER doesn't care but he already lost Maka he wasn't going to lose nantu as well and so misto
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preying on guilt and fear and you know it's one of those things where I I'm
8:13
always reminded of Star Wars where it's like fear leads to hatred hatred leads to the dark side type thing fear is sort
8:19
of like that seed of of hatred right it's very easy for you to be afraid of
8:25
something only to really then turn it into rage against something else uh
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because if you're mad at something if you inherit that rage you don't have to
8:37
be afraid anymore because you have something you can essentially unleash onto and that's what happens with aru
8:43
and that's where Mesto is able to get in so at this moment aru has uh marked his
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face with a glyph used his blood to open a portal that portal then allows the
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wolf fully empowered Avatar of mist St
9:00
to travel into the Vault of aarat and this thing is a monstrosity it
9:08
is um the best way that I can describe it is it reminds me of a tyranid from 40K particularly like the car uh the the
9:16
carif effects or the liors uh its mouth is descended and opens in multiple Parts it has tentacles and fleshy bits all
9:23
over itself uh and In This Moment uh aarat is
9:30
you know stands before you and tries to guard you and Nel takes a massive hit
9:35
and is on the ground as the wolf stalks around and makes fun of you uh then you
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go to fight and realize that in this encroaching darkness and this corruption that is sort of uh circling and
9:49
swallowing the room around you slowly but surely Nel entreats to aarat to get
9:56
up just one last time and fight because they need him now more than ever and the
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battle ensues and this is the penultimate boss battle of the game where you face off against specifically
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the fully empowered Avatar with akarat's help uh akarat grants you his power his
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power allows you to fight the wolf which until this moment or until that particular moment is immune to anything
10:22
you do to it um as the fight goes on you essentially make your way through
10:27
different phases uh the wolf summons more and more monstrosities into the Vault uh and then you eventually do
10:34
defeat it but at the cost of akarat's immortal Soul as acaro the lion starts
10:41
to dissipate uh it forms into its human form again which if you've seen the lion
10:47
form and I commented on this the last time uh it was a little bit on the disturbing side simply because if you
10:52
looked at its paws those were not Paws those were hands uh and that's something that I would pull in an RPG game and
10:58
make everybody slam that door shut and mooved to another room uh you make your way out of the
11:07
Tomb uh and then you have to essentially go back and you find yourself back to
11:12
ormis uh with the Council of uh nantu he tells you uh well I sorry I'm skipping
11:18
over something when you get out you wind up facing aru aru wants to die for his
11:25
sins essentially he knows what he did is wrong uh you have the with him that you know the deal with misto would never go
11:31
his way that he will find I believe Nal says he will find a way to betray you with the first chance um he will hold to
11:39
the letter but not the spirit of the agreement I me one of the things about that when I was watching it was like
11:46
it's incredibly easy to come up with like so many different ways he could do it one of which is he keeps saying that
11:51
his brothers are returning yeah they'll destroy nantu or the between literally
11:57
destroys everything that's what does he is the Lord Of Destruction yes so yeah it was one of those things where
12:03
especially since I was playing a barbarian I was like have you heard of aarat remember the world Stone Mount
12:09
aarat I mean not Mount aarat arot like have you heard of Mount arot where the
12:14
world Stone was kept you notice it ain't there anymore ball comes back he gonna
12:19
walk through nantu like he's going on a stroll and everything will die and Mesto
12:25
will have not lied he didn't do it ball did like for F's sake man yeah but it's
12:32
an interesting go ahead please go ahead all of this feels like it happens narratively very fast it's like you've
12:40
just set you've there's not been very much time between parting from Arrow and arrow returning to betray you uh and
12:48
betray you to misto of all things and you leave the temple and then arrow is there and he's like I'm real sorry about
12:54
this but uh I would do it anyway and it's just feels it feels like you've
13:01
gone through a little bit of a roller coaster in a very abbreviated period of time it just doesn't feel like the story
13:07
had much time to develop there because as both of you have said the decision to
13:13
Ally with Mesto is madness it's this is not going to protect nantu it's just
13:19
releasing hatred into the world yeah I don't I don't have a problem with the pacing of it that in that FR I didn't
13:26
have a problem with it because when you get to the point where you're going to the tomb it feels like like the way like
13:32
the game is setting things up it feels like you are on a clock yeah and that stuff is happening it it deliberately
13:38
feels like stuff is happening really fast like you and Nel are trying desperately to get there before she
13:43
loses it and you go to that town and just there's a lot of stuff going on that part didn't bother me and him
13:50
showing up at the end like that didn't bother me because I felt like he didn't even leave he wasn't he he ped out of
13:57
the tower he handed the thing off to whoever misto servants were there and then he just stayed and waited to get
14:02
killed because he knew he knew this was a horrible betrayal he even says to you
14:08
you deserve better yeah you know he knows what he's done is wrong he just couldn't bear it anymore he couldn't
14:15
bear watching it happen it's like it's one thing to know it's gonna happen it's another thing to see it he saw his
14:21
student die he saw like you know he saw akarat basically get defiled knowing
14:26
it's his fault there's a lot when when what's the other name ah I can't remember the other one's name ah something AB Aban yeah when abalan died
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that was the first big hit to him yeah and then after that after abuan died then he lost his student that's when he
14:42
broke he's like I can't take any more of this I just can't it's got to end if I just give him what he wants at least
14:47
he'll go he'll go destroy something else maybe they can stop him somewhere else so I didn't have a problem with that but
14:53
I do have a problem with the point where it stops and I think we can talk more
14:58
about that CU we pretty much covered it right are you done Joe or you want a little more yeah do I'm going to do a
15:04
little bit more because uh you go back and you talk with ormis uh in in this
15:09
moment you are told that you need to become a symbol of hope uh or at least a symbol t nantu uh because the people
15:15
have lost so much uh the news of aru's betrayal has spread uh because nothing
15:21
is Secret in this world um you have so you go on basically this is where like s
15:27
of the end game opens up uh and introduces you to the things like you know the unders City and uh you
15:34
things like that uh one of the final moments I think which is actually really interesting uh is that you ormus when
15:41
you're done with the unders City and everything sends you actually to go talk with the tree of Whispers um because
15:47
nantu has shielded itself from the trees's vision for decades centuries we
15:53
don't know how long uh but they send you to go essentially make peace with the
15:59
because at this point we're hitting a point where everybody's going to need allies and this sort of ties in with
16:05
sort of like the larger bit of the story which we'll talk about in a little bit while this is going on we are treated to
16:11
the final cut scene of the expansion uh well is uh where you see akarat's body
16:21
in the temple and I forgot which Temple this is is the one in I I want to say it was the one not in KOST um was it in
16:28
traven call I it was either in Tron call or was the one over by Calum I can't remember it was the one where we had the
16:34
the corrupted monks I believe uh I think that was kium where he had go ahead
16:39
where he had that Circle of all of his uh all of his acolytes yes um but you go
16:46
in you see the scene of akarat's body laying there with the Soul Stone pressed into his chest the black tendrils
16:53
reaching out through the flesh as blood black black blood begins to Bubble Up
16:59
from the middle of the circle encasing the entire body of akarat inside of this
17:04
goo to which mephisto's new vessel is born where wreath in a crown of thorns
17:11
uh a little bit more exaggerated than that wielding a blade of black uh just metal and blood and iron that looks just
17:19
absolutely Wicked and nasty all of the um statues of the disciples are completely melted down by this uh and it
17:27
is a statement I believe he makes is that you know he will walk among the world among the
17:33
Innocents uh un like and just kind of pervert everything that they hold dear
17:39
and I mean he's in the body of his greatest Nemesis at this point cuz akarat is his greatest Nemesis and he's
17:45
going to do what we've seen them do uh before like multiple times they did to the quogan they did it to the qu hogen
17:53
uh they did this with the the Church of the Triune they did this with the the the like if you go back and read the sin
17:59
Wars this is not new they're used to doing this type of stuff um and then you
18:05
get into the state of the world and this is kind of where the game ends where people either really love it or really
18:11
hate it and that's one of the reasons why we brought Liz on is because Matt and I are I think we're on the same
18:16
wavelength we may have minor minor differences but I think we're both pretty happy with where the expansion
18:22
LED storywise so I'm curious I'm going to let Liz go first what did you think
18:28
of this and you know you mentioned before we started recording that you were definitely very happy with the uh
18:35
play gameplay experience but maybe not necessarily so happy with the story so I'm I'm very interested why I feel like
18:42
we really rushed through a lot of story really quickly and a lot of this felt
18:47
unearned like you know it was at the end of the original game it was this huge
18:53
terrible thing that we had this Soul Stone we need to figure out what to do with it Nell's run off we don't know
18:59
what she's going to do and you know you get here and once you find nellan here
19:04
it's just like okay let's walk into the Temple of aarat and you know it just feels even though the ending was almost
19:13
the worst possible thing that could have happened it the story feels a little unearned undeveloped it feel it felt
19:20
rushed to me and even before now like irar showing up being presented as the
19:26
big villain um and he like shows up in the beginning and he you know stabs you
19:32
and then he spends half the expansion looking for you and then when he shows up again you immediately kill him and
19:37
that whole thing is over and then you go into the Soul Stone into more of the
19:43
Soul Stone and searching for aarat Tomb and a place to where it can be laid to rest safely which is questionable we've
19:49
yet to find a place to safely store a soul Stone because they corrupt everything around them and it feels like
19:55
the pacing of the whole thing was too fast it felt like like they shoved two acts into one act and so you got two
20:03
halves of a story that felt a little too fast and a little too undeveloped it it
20:10
just felt too easy to do all of this even with the way it ended I the ending
20:15
was great this was totally in character for Mesto it's probably and one thing I
20:21
can't decide and maybe you'll tell me what you think is is this what misto planned all along was he uh in the
20:28
original came just kind of taunting us and trying to get the Soul Stone in the
20:33
hands of someone naive that he could manipulate and he wanted this I think
20:38
that's kind of always their goal to at least a little bit right and this is sort of straight out of the Playbook and
20:45
we've seen Diablo do this multiple times right um misto hasn't done this multiple
20:52
times but he's watched Diablo do it and Diablo's done it to great effect to the
20:57
effect where he waged war on the High Heavens the first of the primevals ever to be able to take the fight to the
21:04
angels like that usually their encounters are in Hell uh where the
21:09
angels are are swooping down and and doing battle in the hells or on sanctuary and he did it by essentially
21:17
doing two things that we see memphisto do here one praying upon innocence into
21:23
two using the Soul Stone the black the black Soul Stone the prison that he was contained in
21:29
as sort of a uh I don't to say a beacon of false hope but you you the people who
21:36
had the stone felt that he was more contained than he was and here this is a
21:42
a soul stone that was not made to contain a prime eval let's let's be perfectly clear about this this was a
21:47
repurpose Stone uh that was a you know we don't have enough time to do a real one uh this one was for
21:55
asteroth uh you're we're going to have to make this work to then us going into hell trying to
22:02
beat Lilith to Mesto uh and then us battling his
22:08
daughter who would have consumed him in his power uh and then giving our choice
22:14
over to a grieving child um I think this
22:20
not all of it was planned I don't think he planned that we were going to give it to Nell although certainly there would have been something to that considering
22:27
we as the Big D hero we're compromised and we know it right like this is one of
22:32
those rare instances where we try to make the smart decision as the player character in a game and he knows we're
22:39
going to try to make the smart decision lorath won't make the choice because lorath is uh feels himself unworthy
22:46
feels himself compromised feels that he's failed too many people won't not even there at that point well yeah he's
22:53
not there at that point but like we he knows that we won't give the stone to lorath right like that
22:59
that lorth is not in a head SP that he would be able to take it we know that right and we are not either and flat out
23:06
like we talked about this last episode Nel asks you why you gave her the stone and I think this plays into it and it's
23:13
you tell her I had the wolf whispering in one ear and Lilith whispering in the other her blood is a part of me I'm
23:19
there like therefore Mao's blood is part of me I can't trust myself and you see that play up in this campaign as well
23:26
where there are several moments where you are in pain because the blood is reacting and whether that's reacting to
23:33
Mesto or the fact that uh I do think that uh Lilith will be reborn because
23:38
demons don't ever die for good um she might be reforming in hell she might be
23:43
reforming in the seat of hatred I think she's reforming inside the player character I that's the other thing that
23:50
could happen too she could be she could be like there's a whole during the fight with misto that kind of caps off this
23:56
expansion there's a whole point where he specifically calls you child of my child child of my child not the way all you
24:05
know you know everyone calls her the mother he doesn't usually call people her children but he does in that fight
24:13
when he's talking to you and he makes a point of talking about how you know there's no way to get rid of him hatred
24:21
is something that's just inherently intrinsic to existence and they can't
24:27
root him out he even makes the point that you know you know you through you you know she she endures and by saying
24:34
that I think he's giving you a hint the thing about Mist that's fascinating to me is that he never seems to lie yeah
24:40
yeah he that makes him I think that makes him a really interesting villain because you know he's not being
24:47
straightforward necessarily but he doesn't lie he's always twisting the
24:53
truth a little but he tells you in the original campaign it's like there's going to be a point at which we aren't
25:00
on at which we'll be enemies yeah but right now we have a we have a mutual enemy we can work together and he he
25:07
sounds very reasonable frankly oh yeah there's a great part of like all this different stuff about that um I kept
25:13
thinking about the fact that Bal used to be mephisto's understudy and Bal lies constantly so of course Mesto wouldn't
25:20
lie because that's how he's better than bile he doesn't need to lie he can use
25:27
the truth and it when you when he the first person to call you out on giving this the Soul Stone to Nel is misto he
25:35
comes right out and says you you let us a wounded child take this this burden instead of taking it yourself like what
25:42
you thinking was going to happen um so yeah there's a lot to that that I really do enjoy I just feel like I don't know I
25:49
wanted to see how how Liz or Joe feel about this um in the the fact that the
25:54
the game ends where it does lizard said it felt like two things Jam together to me it feels like it's been split apart
26:01
unnaturally like this was not the ending point MH they should almost immediately
26:06
have been more of it to to see at least deal with what just happened and the
26:12
fact that it just stopped here and there's nothing else of that story to
26:17
deal with is weird to me like I understand they're going to do another expansion and it might even be out next year for all I know it's they've said
26:25
yearly expansions yeah they've said that but you know they've said that before about other games too so I'll believe it
26:31
schedule you know this came out a year after launch I think they're serious about making us pay for a full priced
26:37
expansion every year yeah and and a lot of people pointed out that it is it's
26:42
just it I I want to see what happens because I do think at some point the game is the series is named Diablo and
26:49
they when they were doing interviews about it they talked about how in the past Diablo was usually the boss and
26:55
then there'd be an expansion that kind of made somebody else the ultimate boss and they wanted to not do that this time
27:01
so at some point we've got to get Diablo back and it feels to me like the next
27:08
expansion might lead to ball um and I definitely feel like the angels are going to show up in it I I definitely
27:14
feel based on stuff they've done that that's going to happen that's that's in the game right like that's like and
27:19
maybe we talk about this a little bit too because one of the things you do in between all this uh especially afterwards when you're going around and
27:26
doing some of the the the like we're going to the endgame now stuff is you go
27:31
back to the Herod Vault right you go back to their their area and you see all the things that lorath was working on uh
27:38
and you see that he had pulled up uh rma's prophecy again something that he had uh very distinctly dismissed
27:46
multiple multiple times right like then he's starting to look at it again why is he looking at it again uh he has a note
27:53
for tyal talking about essentially bits and pieces of him actively looking for
27:59
tyal or a way to contact him because that's we we speculated about that we
28:05
speculated that that would be a logical thing for lorath to do in the aftermath would happen in the base game uh after
28:11
the campaign uh and then we find proof that he's doing that or at least trying to and I think that makes you know what
28:18
you're saying about the Angels being involved soon I think that's inevitable um I think we're we're starting to
28:24
actually get an escalation of the Diablo story which sounds weird weird to say uh
28:30
but here like I I feel that up until this point uh the Diablo stories for one
28:36
and two and three have been mostly linear right they have you know there's
28:43
a period of calm something bad happens big bad is unleash of the world we kill the big bad shove it into a stone
28:49
there's a period of calm the big bad from the stone breaks out chaos ensues
28:55
you know we defeat the big bad there's a period of calm blah blah blah this feels like we're hitting a fever pitch and to Liz's Point earlier and I
29:02
think I think the feeling of this being rushed is intentional and the reason I say that is in the events that happened
29:10
in in Diablo I most of humanity was wiped out the world is trying to recover
29:15
and it really hasn't there hasn't been enough forces to fight against the darkness and you see that in the world
29:20
most of the world are pockets of humanity isolated from each other uh that you know they can try to do
29:26
Caravans and stuff like that but doesn't quite always work you are now hitting a point where we don't have vast armies we
29:34
don't have vast cities and cultures to fight against uh these forces of the Prime evils of the hells themselves any
29:41
longer like we did at the end of one or two uh on during the events of three and
29:48
I think that's the Frantic pace is we are desperate we are we are desperate
29:54
from the very beginning and I think that makes aru's plight believable in that
29:59
regard too uh and you guys can I'll stop talking and let you talk here in a second but AR betrayal and I've heard
30:04
people say this seems like it's very fast I don't think it is right like I
30:11
think it's an old man worn down by watching the destruction of the world around him watching the corruption creep
30:18
ever closer to his home before we ever got there right like before go ahead of
30:24
course nantu has been through this before when left in the care of the zachar room and everyone got corrupted
30:31
and everything was warped this became a Bastion of hatred in the zachar room's
30:37
time that so this is like coming here of all places with Mesto Soul Stone just
30:43
feels like I mean yeah that's got to be that's got to hurt seeing like okay
30:49
misto was here he ruined my homeland and now he's back and and not only ruining
30:55
in the Homeland but now he's doing like because because of your presence here because of Nell's presence here in
31:00
particular the spirit realm has been encroached upon in a way that it has never been encroached upon before the
31:07
spirit realm that Veil that that is between them and we talked about this a little bit has existed in part to keep
31:13
the demons out of it because it's a vast repository of power and energy and potential um and it's created and and
31:21
Matt I talked about this last time nobody knows what it is but it's often in the Diablo Mythos uh referred to as
31:29
essentially a construct that is born of human thought and worship of it uh but
31:35
may run deeper and maybe something that has existed since uh the time that the Nephilim were at full power this may
31:42
have been a pocket reality created because of the world Zone and the Nephilim were so tied together that they
31:48
created this realm they this is how they understood death uh and because of that it existed and because of it this might
31:55
be the pure un like the spirit Realm may be a pure realm of untainted power of
32:01
the Nephilim uh which ideally makes it very dangerous for Mesto to have now a
32:07
body that has been seeping in this Spirit tea for centuries uh we don't
32:13
know what he's able to do now uh because this is power that the primevals are never supposed to get but also it would
32:19
have made it the perfect prison for him because the Realms the the spirit realm itself can isolate itself and shift and
32:26
EB and flow with anything he can throw at it um but I think that the pace of it
32:32
makes sense the pace of aro's betrayal he blames Nel he blames Nell for
32:37
essentially not asking for help because that she had asked for help before she ever got here and been smarter about it
32:45
they could have in his brain they could have avoided a lot of this tragedy right the hatred wouldn't have just come here
32:51
willy-nilly she could have been guided to this place before the corruption took hold and because of
32:59
her bullishness or or stubbornness over it she's caused more destruction than
33:05
she necessarily needed to and so of course he's going to blame her he resents her and then he resents the fact
33:11
that she's free right she's going to be free because akarat who is this pure
33:16
symbol of of of like Bastion of of Purity like when you first when aru first sees aarat the awe and wonder that
33:24
he conveys through his body language and his his vocalization is apparent and
33:30
akarat doesn't care about him not in the same way that he cares about Nel akarat wants to help Nel and he can't believe
33:36
wait akarat would want to help this person but doesn't want to help the rest of nantu you get this like these little
33:41
tiny seeds that get planted and it just takes one last thing to tip it over the edge and where he's not thinking clearly
33:48
and those are the cracks in which misto weaves into like Matt said he doesn't lie but he'll make an offer he even
33:54
offer he offers it to you the player character multiple times tries to get reum he like they're well measured so I
34:04
get what you're saying where it seems quick but I think with everything that's going on in the world cu the world is essentially collapsing at this point um
34:11
even more so than it has been it feels right in line with the pace of the world essentially consuming itself I think my
34:18
my big issue with it is that you've got this Cathedral of light story and then you have the Soul Stone story and
34:25
they're just crammed together in a way where it feels like the Cathedral of light thing resolved itself very quickly
34:32
and then the Soul Zone thing resolved itself very quickly because they're trying to cram these two narratives
34:39
together in a single expansion I want to hear what Matt says done when Liz is done tell me let me know and I'll come
34:45
in because I I I have a point to this all right the Cathedral of light is here in this story for a very specific reason
34:52
because the Cathedral of light is both a remnant of the world before the sin War
34:58
MH in that it is the creation of inarius and it is also directly created by mytho
35:04
this time because inarius was in mephisto's hands and driven completely
35:10
insane by it none of his decisions make sense if you look at what inarius did
35:16
and how he reacted to the prophecy he never got ahead of it he never even
35:21
tried to he just followed this prophecy blindly even though his own son told him
35:27
you it's not going to go the way you want you know when he's like and I will get to return to heaven where I belong
35:33
he's like it wouldn't that it were true father and it's like that's that's pretty optimistic of you dude yeah and
35:40
all through that you know when inarius finally goes to hell to fight Lilith and Lilith destroys him this is perfect
35:47
because now there's nobody in charge of the Cathedral of light and I thought that that whole story was basically
35:53
trying to show people there's a battle of wills between the two but prava is
35:59
not better she's just in a way she's worse because she does the same thing
36:04
misto does doesn't she she's reasonable she says things that make sense at the time she doesn't necessarily lie she
36:12
probably was horrified by what irves did to that to that guy who confessed and
36:18
asked for Mercy because that's not how the cathedral flight's supposed to work and all of that is to show the the the
36:25
progress of the Cathedral of light down the road that the zacharo room went yeah
36:31
and again it's it's misto I'm sorry I know you're trying to talk no no I just I just want I just want to add something in there too the cathedral life story is
36:38
not done not even by a long shot um you the only thing that is done is irves is
36:45
dead that's it that's the only thing that's finished after even after you get through into the like the one of the
36:51
quests you get in the post uh sequence game to lead to the endgame content is
36:56
to go in essentially take a Bastion that has been taken over by burned Knights
37:03
and people are being essentially given the air quote Sacrament uh and are
37:08
losing their their ding- dang Minds um you go through and you see the the vast
37:15
level of corruption and Mania that has taken hold of a section of the church
37:20
that is just different than the other Mania that has taken hold of the church that has been there since anari's
37:26
founded it essentially you yeah and I also want to point out something that Liz had done a long time ago Liz do you
37:32
remember we talked about the fact that right in front of the the church the church of light the Cathedral of light there's a big blood drop yeah and that's
37:39
iconography that's iconography you see throughout all of the churches the these drops of blood this uh woman holding a a
37:48
chalice of blood blood iconography is everywhere and now that chal of blood
37:53
thing they actually find it and it starts turning people into vampires yeah I was going to bring that up too so
38:00
there's it's kind of hard to remember this but um the blood you know the blood
38:05
rights and so forth of the I want to say the The Duchess in Diablo I might have been the baroness I can't remember if
38:11
it's baroness or Duchess but uh she comes back in Diablo mortal you get to fight her again there's a whole thing
38:17
about this weird vampire stuff where is the vampire stuff coming from specifically is it from one of the uh
38:23
the primevals is it from something else but it's definitely feels to me like they're tying it in with the Church of
38:31
the Cathedral of light story I keep calling the Church of light I know um because that whole idea of blood and
38:36
blood drops and you know blood is a huge part of the the cathedral's you know
38:42
it's exorcism right I shed my Wicked Blood for you to purify it the power in
38:48
blood is very much part of everything that the Cathedral of light does by
38:54
bringing in these burned nights you're kind of you're turning them into candles you're using them as like sacrifices in
39:01
an even more literal way and I really do feel like this is going to tie in like
39:06
it's it's tying into the other evils because we're not just getting the primes we're hearing about the primes
39:11
we're hearing about ball and and uh Diablo but when misto says my brothers
39:17
technically everybody but andariel is his brother and andariel is his sister so when he says my brothers they could
39:24
all be coming back we already know that one of them two of them are currently walking around Sanctuary both duriel and
39:30
darel are on Sanctuary right now and they were involved in
39:35
everything um Lilith attempted to enslave andario and duriel just attacks
39:41
you because you know he wants K parin Bing and just there is in this whole
39:47
thing the movement of of these stories I think that Liz has got a point about how they
39:53
feel because it does feel an awful lot like you're doing a lot of things and
39:59
because everything's hooked around Nel and when it's first presented to you it
40:04
feels odd to just okay and then we just went down and did it and now you know
40:10
irves is dead but irves was never really the problem irves was simply a symptom
40:16
and so I I feel like there is something to the fact that they're trying to do yearly content drops yearly DLC type
40:24
expansions rather than a big expans ion and then nothing has has positives but
40:31
it also has negatives in terms of Storytelling like um vessel vessel of hatred does not get to do what Reaper of
40:38
Souls did Reaper of Souls does this enormous like that one act of Diablo 3
40:45
is about the size of the about half the size of the entire previous game it's an enormous act and at the end there's a
40:52
big climactic confrontation that changes the world forever and you're done when the story comes around again you know so
40:59
they had to get it as close to complete as they could they've now shifted to a more episodic model and episodic models
41:06
don't feel finished because they're not yeah but you definitely even in this
41:12
case you still get a big climactic battle because oh yeah no I and I'm just saying like
41:18
because that's another thing that Nell points out too is that you destroyed a piece of infinity right like I think
41:24
that's the exact line A Shard I think yeah but you still did something that
41:30
nobody thought was possible and so things are absolutely changing and there
41:36
is huge impact for what just happened but I'm also really kind of happy with
41:42
uh what happened here as far as being episodic because I honestly I would
41:47
rather have an expansion every year that continues the story than us going 10
41:53
years without anything oh yeah I mean and and I played Diablo I like from the
41:58
time it came out until yesterday um so I can say that yeah it gets weird when you
42:05
play through it and there's never any further things and you're like okay wait a minute you know we we got like a I
42:11
think there was like one little bit of completely unrelated story they added with like a a weird blood Temple and
42:18
that's I've been trying to tie that dude back into this since this the whole
42:24
thing came out and Liz mentioned the blood drop because that whole place was a giant blood Temple where blood was
42:30
being you know the blood of the Nephilim was being used in profane rights and so I'm like okay what what are we doing is
42:37
this guy coming back are we gonna hear like where are we in this so yeah I I
42:42
definitely feel like I definitely feel like there's a there is room to criticize how the story felt oh I agree
42:49
like yeah my holy cynical feeling about all of this is that you know blizzard
42:56
wants to put out an annual expansion and make us pay uh what $40 a year for an
43:03
expansion that's the length of a single act of the original game and I feel like
43:08
the Cathedral of light story was crammed in here I still think it's a little abbreviated because you know they're
43:14
releasing a book about it next month the book of prava is coming out next month going to cost another
43:20
$30 so I feel like this is we're getting these short stories and
43:27
each bit of game is a promotion for a book that's going to cost you more money
43:34
and that book is going to lead you into the next expansion which is going to cost you more money uh I I feel like
43:41
this is It's a Content treadmill and they're going to produce content that is
43:46
short form because yes it has to be episodic if you're doing it once a year and but in the end it's it's going to
43:53
get us to pay a lot more money to play the same content and I'm I am feeling a
43:58
little cynical about this because I felt like the game should have been you know two good-sized acts it felt like you
44:04
could have had an indepth story about the cathedral and still have had an in-depth story about the Soul Stone and
44:10
Nell but it felt like we got a a quick story about the cathedral kind of crammed on and yeah my my very cynical
44:18
take on that is that it had to be so that we could have the book of prava next month yeah and I think there's
44:23
there there might you you're perfectly valid in in that thought and feeling on that and I understand where you're
44:29
coming from uh as far as viewing that I look at it as maybe just a little bit of
44:35
the opposite side where it was abbreviated but the church and I think in the the the first meeting you have
44:42
with prava I think kind of sets that tone we are not enemies right now
44:48
because we have a common enemy I'm not your focus nor are you and that's that's
44:55
very interesting because it's almost exactly what in the original game we
45:00
will be enemies at some point but not right now and and and to be fair what happened in the first campaign we
45:06
ignored misto for the most part and dealt with Lilith we were chasing Lilith Lilith was the focus so yeah there's
45:13
absolutely truth in what you guys say that that prava mimics Mesto quite a bit but also the church isn't our Focus yet
45:22
and I think the yet is the part of it so we'll get the book of Prova I'm sure that plays into it and I'm actually I'm
45:27
really curious to read it because I want to see what they do with that and what what gaps if any they fill in um but I'm
45:35
also thinking that in the next expansion or the next time we get an expansion
45:42
it's not just going to be about chasing misto as aarat it's going to be dealing with I think church and holy structure
45:48
cuz what is going to be the easiest thing for Mesto to do as the body of
45:54
Acra cuz if you looked at it it wasn't corre corupted looking it was just akarat's body pristine it was absolutely
46:01
pristine you walk into you know any who hold true to the the core of the zachar
46:07
room Faith what's going to happen yeah I mean it's going to be the easiest thing to revive the zachar room and you know
46:14
walk into zarban that and they've been searching for aarat for years they've
46:20
been searching for akarat's Tomb and they just like yeah when you do the hell
46:25
tide openings not the hell TI the The Invasion openings there's someone who's like called you out to come there
46:31
because there's demons everywhere and that person flat out says you know when when we will find the tomb of akarat
46:39
yeah when when we need him most we will find him so that's he's literally gonna walk out as accurat and say you found me
46:46
I'm here by the way these people uh they they kept you my tomb secret from you uh
46:52
and they're aligned with this church over here we should probably go deal with that because again I I think that's
46:58
where we're going to get with the next expansion is we're probably going to be involved in a holy war and I'm I'm not
47:04
just saying that because you know the shock value but like it seems like there's really like a big setup for us
47:10
getting caught in the middle of a war between the Cathedral of light uh and the the zealots of the zachar room
47:17
because I I think that's the next very likely story because instead of chasing with instead of chasing misto we're
47:24
going to know exactly where he is it's and we're going to have to deal with the Fallout from it and we're going to have
47:30
to deal with the Fallout of the church but before we can do anything with going after the the zealots of the zachar room
47:36
we're going to have to I I think we're going to wind up having to and I I don't know another way to say this but cleanse
47:43
the the Church of the light um and this may involve you know tyal coming back
47:49
down maybe and the angels might be tied up in this uh because I'm again I'm pretty sure that's where lorath is um
47:56
and we're probably going to be dealing with rooting out the vampires and the burned uh the burned husks of of
48:02
cosplayers of of those that went to hell uh in in putting prava in line right
48:09
like I think I think that's going to be what happens and the next expansion will be dealing with that and dealing with
48:14
all the Fallout from the the Cathedral of light and then having to deal with the zachar room uh zealots Matt I saw
48:21
you light up so oh I hit the wrong button sorry but I guess I guess that
48:27
that leads the question though where do you think we're going well I mean I think Liz is right in that you know corporate Synergy is affecting the story
48:33
and there's just no way around that I don't think that that necessarily is bad but I don't I I do like the story of
48:39
this expansion uh I do get I had the feeling when I got to the end that I was like are you kidding me you're stopping
48:45
here never been a big fan of Cliffhangers um so for me that's a
48:51
that's a negative but I everything they set up was like almost pristine to me I was like oh this is so good we're going
48:57
to see so much chaos and destruction out of this it's the perfect plan for Mesto
49:02
and they're also breadcrumbs that Lilith is gonna come back and because we know what happens to angels in hell like um
49:12
tyel old buddy uh I can't remember his name but he's in Diablo 3 God I am just
49:17
so many names no no no no no I mean I'm sure he's coming back but I'm talking the one who's literally a demon now is
49:24
you all is you all that's it he used to be tiel's like right hand uh he went
49:29
into the hells and he became a demon I think inarius is going the same way like we're gonna he's going to be a demon I
49:36
thought when Angels died they went back to what the Divine gate the Angelic to
49:43
be reformed the crystal Arch we don't know if they can do that when they're in hell we also don't know if they can do
49:49
that after it was damaged since Diablo did damage to it true and for that
49:54
matter the crystal Arch and the burning Hells themselves are equal
49:59
manifestations of the original Anu like tatham's corpse and Anu and the diamond
50:05
Warrior anu's spine are each fundamental pieces of the original entity it's quite
50:11
possible that if they die in hell they go to to to tathamet corpse it's evenly
50:17
quite possible that demons that died in heaven went to the crystal
50:22
Arch and that might be why they're having problems because they have all these demonic Essences inside the
50:29
crystal Arch like there's a lot of possibilities here I do really want to
50:34
see what's next and I really at the same time that I'm totally nodding my head every time Liz talks about how they want
50:40
to get us to pay you know another however much money for the next expansion yeah they they they've never
50:45
been shy about this this is the expansion that they wanted to make when they were still Activision keep in mind
50:52
and Activision absolutely loves that game plan and it's not like Microsoft hates it the idea of more money does not
50:58
bug Microsoft they like oh people will pay us more for this game that we released I don't see a problem yeah
51:04
Microsoft wants an inter a return on that $ 69 billion doll investment yeah exactly so yeah but at the same time I
51:12
do think there's a lot of really interesting stuff in this the the character of Mesto as the villain so far
51:18
in in a way it's actually better because he set up everything he even like the
51:24
original all these monsters and demons that are erupting out of the ground and attacking eru is the one who tells you
51:29
it's not necessarily Nell's fault because they were here before you know it's just there's a ton of interesting
51:37
stuff in the interplay between akarat's TR to help Nel and M Fisto's ability to
51:43
use the situation to his Advantage so I I am very much invested I absolutely
51:48
think we're gonna get that whole that that church War um I they've been pointing the way towards that ever since
51:54
they had the Cathedral of light basically just March into Calum and start killing zachar room um you know
52:02
another thing another thing that we certainly see in this expansion is if you go to uh zaret it's now full of
52:10
people on crosses that they've been rounding up and uh torturing killing for
52:16
vague unknown reasons y so the the zachar room the remnants of the Zach
52:22
room have become more extreme in the time between last expansion and this one and are they already falling back under
52:29
hatred grip even without M festo's direct influence on them I think that is
52:35
definitely something that that we're getting to see pieces of and I think that's one of the things they're trying to set up that in they're even calling
52:41
it the age of hatred yeah like this is the quote ever since what um I want to
52:47
say uh imperious but no wrong guy malel uh ever since malel did what he did and
52:53
killed so many people the world that has been inherited by those who survived and
52:59
their children and grandchildren is a world of hatred it's it is like it is
53:05
basically mephisto's playground and it's interesting that he seems to have basically even though he went to hell
53:11
and he was re regenerating in his in his in his Fortress his influence has been felt the longest because he did the most
53:19
to the world sure ball blew up the world Stone you know caused it to be blown up
53:25
he he almost tainted it but he did cause it to be blown up that's a pretty big deal Diablo is kind of the instigator
53:31
for every single thing that happens because he's the one who keeps getting out and then freeing the others so
53:37
that's that's all fair but it has to be said that whilst they were doing what they were doing misto sat inside you
53:44
know he killed sankor no he didn't kill sankor he killed the quagan before sankor he inhabited sankur like a meat
53:51
suit and he spent hundreds of years warping the zachar room to the point
53:56
where they were just burning people and it's really interesting that the knights that we see from the Cathedral of light
54:02
in this expansion are the burning nights when in Diablo 4 like in the story we
54:08
were following one of the subquests is you go to a a settlement where the zacharo marched in and burned this this
54:15
Spirit eventually a spirit born he was like a he was like a witch that they burned and heup into the flames and
54:22
killed everybody I think he was a druid and yeah I mean I think a lot of the witches are Druids it's one of the
54:29
interesting things about the way that these things play out but regardless yeah there's just a ton of there's a ton
54:35
of this stuff that I I keep seeing the the the kind of fractal nature of it it's like this thing that happened here
54:42
is a is a minuscule it's a miniature of what happened with all this um the whole
54:47
deal with the zachar room like when Elias breaks into the zachar room uh you know repository and steals the knowledge
54:53
of how to seal summon a lesser EV that's very much what the Cathedral of light
55:00
does to the zachar room when they're trying to find Lilith like there's it it goes back and
55:07
forth on this like the the hatred is very present in this G this game so far so I'm very interested go ahead Liz I'm
55:13
sorry it's also very repetitive I mean it feels like both the Herod and
55:20
the evils kind of have the same game plan on repeat it's like the haraj finds
55:25
an evil shoves in a stall Stone tries to hide it it inevitably corrupts everyone
55:30
near it and gets out and then it takes on the body it uh you know corrupting
55:37
religious orders or founding religious orders to corrupt the people is it's
55:43
kind of a thing they do oh yeah and I wonder if if it's just the religions of
55:48
sanctuary we see these people with so much fervor and H they're so devout that
55:55
maybe they can be it it just seems it's been so easy for Mesto and Diablo all of
56:00
them to go in and like you know you pull a string and you point these people in a Direction You fan the hatred that's
56:07
already in their hearts and bang you have your back where you started with another a repeat of the situation except
56:14
no maybe maybe we can do it right this time maybe this time Sanctuary will be ours yeah and I think there's there's
56:21
something to that Cycles right and part of it is gameplay part of it I think is actually playe into the story uh We've
56:28
sort of been locked in a cycle since the nephilim's power was taken away because
56:34
the nephlim when they were at full power could have ended the Eternal conflict uh quite readily actually uh re reshaped
56:42
reality to whatever they wanted it to be and moved on and lived whatever Nephilim
56:47
happily ever after would have looked like but with the angels in in in you
56:53
know like well let's just take their power away uh and the demons trying to you know use
56:59
that power when we finally get pieces of it back it's we're locked into this this
57:05
completely devastating cycle of Decay and I think we're finally starting to see the tail end of it right because
57:12
it's been a constant thing every single time like I said it gets worse and worse in Diablo 1 it was bad but it wasn't as
57:19
bad as it was in Diablo I 2 in Diablo I it was bad and it wasn't as bad as it became at the end of Diablo I now in
57:25
Diablo 4 there's almost no humans left and uh we are the descendants of the
57:31
Nephilim the world Stone's gone shards of it are you know all over the place which you know we haven't even dealt
57:37
with that part of the story yet um and now you have one of the Prime evils set
57:43
up with a super powerful body the other ones are coming back uh the angels have locked themselves away uh there's going
57:50
to be even more war and destruction on the on the horizon we're in that sort of like
57:56
and of like this sort of like decaying death spiral there was um a Brandon
58:02
Sanderson book that this reminded me of I think it was aess where they people
58:08
that were magically gifted were essentially like dead and decaying because the magical right had been interrupted and was not complete so
58:15
their power was essentially making them uh for lack of a med from lepers magical
58:20
lepers and I look at Diablo and I see kind of that same thing where this maximum potential and power was was sort
58:26
of cut off uh and because of that the world itself Sanctuary itself is in a
58:31
constant state of decay and it's just getting worse and worse and worse as
58:37
time goes on so we're going to be in a cycle for a while until something breaks
58:42
it and that breaks it will be the end of the Diablo story so I don't think we'll ever get there because as long as
58:50
Microsoft can make money off of it yeah I was going to say because the the corporate side of it the profitability of it is there but that means we're
58:56
going to see patterns repeat themselves not just because of gameplay but because of the story I think it's intentional at
59:02
this point I also want to make a point about something uh the sin War took place
59:07
thousands of years but at the end of the sin War the world Stone was disintegrating that's why the Nephilim
59:14
were coming back and olsian by erasing himself from existence reset the world
59:20
Stone mhm and then for Untold thousands of years sanctuary just limped on mhm
59:28
and ironically the uh the the primevals got themselves exiled to sanctuary as
59:34
part of their evil plan to you know use the world use the people of the world as weapons in the Eternal conflict to tip
59:40
the scales because good and evil or light and darkness what even words you want to use were too evenly balanced
59:45
right but in so destroying the world stone that repeating pattern of
59:51
thousands of years stops and you start getting Chang es you get malel coming in
59:59
and wiping out so much of humanity something that none of the primevals ever
1:00:04
managed you know he killed most of humans the fact that there's any humans left is you know just down to the
1:00:11
Nephilim everybody like so many of them died which means that the spirit realm
1:00:17
draws its power from creation itself and all those humans were part of creation
1:00:23
and we know that they they tried to go back to the world Stone when they dieded because we saw that in Mel's you know in
1:00:31
his version of the pandemonium Fortress I think a lot of this stuff is building up things are changing after thousands
1:00:39
of years of being held static narratively speaking this is the first
1:00:44
time that the primevals get to come back and it no longer matters what heaven
1:00:49
says there's the the the peace treaty that they had is gone they're openly acting to corrupt say uary and they're
1:00:57
using the iconography of the Heavens to do it they're using imperious not
1:01:05
imperious sorry in you know inarius but man imperious is gonna have to show up at some point and do something evil come
1:01:10
on we all know he's going to we saw him do it in Diablo I when push comes to shove imperious does the wrong
1:01:18
thing so yeah I I feel like a lot of this I do feel like this was an awkward
1:01:24
transition to a new form of expansion for Diablo and I definitely think Liz
1:01:30
you've actually changed my mind a little bit about the story I'll be upfront with you you've you've given me more to think about I still think it's really good but
1:01:36
I get the the sense of how much stuff can we pack into this thing yeah you know especially since we know it's gon
1:01:42
it's not gonna these characters are all be returning in the next one so yeah there there's there's stuff going on
1:01:48
here nothing quite hit the emotional peak of anything don't happen to Donan quite frankly when Donan was in Diablo 4
1:01:55
you you your hearts can get broken at some point man and maybe I mean maybe that's what got me because Diablo the
1:02:02
original Diablo 4 story had some heartbreaking moments some where it was
1:02:07
really pulling the threads of your heart and it just hurt you know when vgo died
1:02:14
you didn't go in there expecting to feel any sympathy for vgo but man that death
1:02:19
scene Nel's mother died that was heart-wrenching when Donan Donan just
1:02:26
ugly crying over the body of his son these were scenes with a huge emotional
1:02:32
impact and we didn't have anything quite on that level misto coming back in the
1:02:37
body backat that was striking and terrifying but n cry it doesn't break
1:02:44
your heart and even I mean the biggest emotional moment would have been nurel crying over acat Spirit body and that
1:02:52
well you have the death of maca from aru you have yeah you have the death ofan
1:02:58
for AR we don't know don't know those characters yeah we don't we don't know them quite the same we don't know Maka
1:03:04
and we don't really know Acura we've just seen aarat kind of hovering there as a as a guide I mean for we didn't
1:03:11
know n Nell's mother we kind of do though that's the thing there you you get Nell so clearly upset and Afraid and
1:03:19
you keep hearing new stuff and you find out oh she's talking to Lilith and you see the flashbacks it's different when
1:03:26
you don't really have the ability you can't build a connection with Maka the same way it's not that she's a bad
1:03:31
character uh I just feel like to a certain degree um the character of eru
1:03:37
almost gets there you almost feel for him like you do bonan because they they
1:03:42
do try but it doesn't quite make it yeah and that's another thing if they'd had a little more time with the story you
1:03:48
might have gotten to the point where you saw Arrow betray you and it broke your heart but I don't think you knew Arrow
1:03:53
quite well enough you didn't know you didn't see quite enough for the it just the story felt like a tiny bit
1:04:00
underbaked like it was it was getting close to being there but like Matt said
1:04:06
you didn't get to know Maka enough for that to break your heart you didn't get to know eru quite enough for that to
1:04:12
stab you in the chest with that betrayal so I I just didn't feel as I felt so
1:04:18
strongly about the original Diablo story it it crushed me in places and it was a beautiful story but I I didn't have any
1:04:25
of those moments in vessel Patriot which is definitely valid um but I think I
1:04:31
think we're going to have to call there we're a little bit over on time so I guess parting thoughts uh we've already
1:04:37
asked where we think we're going let me just real quick what do you want the
1:04:43
story to look like moving forward what's the one thing that you want more than
1:04:48
than anything to show up in the next expansion cuz we know we're getting at least one more we not we're going to get more but at least one more is guaranted
1:04:55
cuz they said they're working on it already Liz Crusader class let's go I mean I I do I do think we're
1:05:03
actually very everyone wanted a crusader class really bad for this expansion but I actually think right now we are very
1:05:09
well set up to go in that direction because akarat has such close ties to the zachar room we know we probably know
1:05:18
that we're going to get a big zachar room story next expansion and with that you can very easily see Crusaders are
1:05:24
something in that vein coming in so that's what I'm looking forward to I was always I've been playing a necromancer
1:05:31
for a long time but I was I was a what a paladin Paladin in Diablo I before and
1:05:39
before I ever started playing a necromancer and a crusader I enjoyed the Crusader in Diablo II so I'm I'm looking
1:05:45
forward to this maybe this will break my habit of rolling a necromancer every season and having my character list
1:05:52
completely full of them Matt lorath and Elias on the tree oh my gosh yeah
1:05:58
because he has to die not because I hate him I like nor lorath quite a bit as a character but let's face it he has to
1:06:05
Die For The Narrative because who would we care about as much as we cared about watching Don's life fall apart and
1:06:12
watching Don and die lorath because he's been with us now you know he was the drunk my I think the moment where you
1:06:19
find lorath in uh K bardu and he says you know I Was Defeated and he go you
1:06:26
like by what he goes ah by my own treacherous like like Ops amounts of alcohol wielded by my own treacherous
1:06:32
hand and you're pulling him up out of the muck and Meer and he immediately kind of snaps into something like
1:06:38
sensibility but he's absolutely wrecked and he's he's like I'm gonna go find this thing you if you want to go check
1:06:45
out what's going on with the zachar room go for it but then come meet me here and you go and you you're doing stuff with
1:06:50
him and he's petulant and he's Mercurial and he argued with you and you learn so
1:06:57
much about him through it but by the time he sees Donan die and he's like I'm done I can't anymore I'm done you have
1:07:05
to carry this you've been the one carrying this the whole time you know he's broken yeah and there's nowhere for
1:07:10
him to go anymore he can't come back from this it's diablo um I think it's
1:07:16
very likely that he'll die I think it's very likely that Nell will no longer be Human by the end of this story because
1:07:24
she's basically going to have to replace zarat yeah and when that kind of stuff happens there's a really great line when
1:07:31
when Nel is questioning the the hero um about why they put her in this position
1:07:38
and Joe already mentioned it the thing about you know the I had misto like misto wolf in one ear and Lilith in
1:07:45
another but there's that really great Point she goes well I was just the fist like sure you want me to fight a you
1:07:52
know a lesser evil and kill it I can do that which is Amazing by the way um but
1:07:58
you want me to make decisions I can't I that's not my thing that was your thing
1:08:04
and it kind of makes sense when when it comes right down to it the heroes who save Sanctuary are never the ones who
1:08:11
actually understand the problem they're just the ones who can do something about it so is your character
1:08:17
I honestly feel like at the end of this your character is going to be Lilith if not actually Lilith you're going to be
1:08:23
in that role that Lilith wanted to be in the whole time the problem with hat is that for all that she was right about
1:08:30
the war and she did obviously love her son she was a demon and demons don't
1:08:37
have the capacity for True empathy they're they they're no better than angels and they're no worse than Angels
1:08:44
they don't understand us so yeah I I feel like we're gonna at the end of this
1:08:50
the the The Wanderer is going to basically be replacing Lilith in that role of
1:08:56
I'm going to save Sanctuary no matter what it takes yeah I I kind of agree with you on that you're going to be essentially taking over the role of uh
1:09:02
odsan if anything else um not just Lilith but like you're going to be that Beacon the the other thing that I will
1:09:10
say then and I'll I'll I believe Liz has one thing to take us out on here before I do my outro but the thing that I am
1:09:16
interested to see and they set this up during the post um the post uh sequence
1:09:25
the post uh expansion sequence for I up the end game um you're going to be the one that kills lorath it's going to be
1:09:31
you that has to collect his head I can gu I can almost guarantee that because of the way that it was set up the way
1:09:37
that the alliance between uh nantu and the whisperin tree were made uh and some
1:09:43
of the things the tree says to you when you go and make that deal uh because it literally says the deal is the same as
1:09:49
it ever was we will give you what you seek but you will give us our debts
1:09:56
and lorath is a debt that will have to be collected um he's out doing stuff and
1:10:01
he's got stuff that he wants to finish doing but I guarantee you when it comes time you're going to be the one that has
1:10:07
to kill you want that emotional moment it's going to be you that has to take him out so that's my final thoughts Liz
1:10:14
before I do my outro I just have I have one quote that I think is a good one to
1:10:19
think about moving forward uh the last thing the spirit of acat tells you is
1:10:25
remember this in the days to come that in the end aarat was afraid and does
1:10:31
this lead us back to Diablo does this lead us are we just circling back to Mesto it's just this thought of aarat
1:10:38
this a disciple of the light all of this time and in the end akarat was afraid
1:10:45
yeah well I will say that while akarat may be afraid I am currently not because
1:10:50
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1:11:51
folks I would like to thank Liz for joining us today and we'll see you next week fun all right bye everybody
1:11:59
[Music]