Up next in 10
Who would have thought that the hosts of the Lore Watch Podcast would be excited to talk about the new Lorewalking feature coming to World of Warcraft? The episode goes through the scenarios in detail, so if you'd prefer to have your Lorewalking experience as unspoiled as your own recollection of past events, note that they discuss everything about them at length. Part of that discussion also includes the implications of why we might be visiting these particular points in the lore -- Arthas, the Ethereals, and Xal'atath's backstory -- as we chase Xal'atath to the end of this narrative arc's conclusion.
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0:00
[Music]
0:10
hello and welcome to Lore Watch round table free form discussion about lore in your favorite media I'm your host Joe
0:16
Perez one of several lore focused folks from Blizzard watch and I've got my lore walking companion with me today Matt
0:22
Rossy How you doing today Matt well apparently I'm walking some lore What did you like what yeah What is it
0:28
like does it want to stop on the branches like are we going to like is it going to get me in trouble i I'm curious
0:35
Well I don't know about that but I do know that what we do every week is akin to what the lore walkers do which is
0:40
well keeping the story alive and making sure that we uncover every little secret even the stuff that wasn't there before
0:47
because well that's a thing Uh we're going to be talking about lore walking today and it is something that is coming
0:54
uh in the next patch It's on the PTR right now Some of the stuff may be subject to change but your warning here
1:00
is that it's going to be some spoilers while two sections of it are stuff we've
1:06
already seen Uh one section does bring some new stuff to it And I'll give you another warning before we get into that
1:12
But just to remind everybody if you have questions for this or either of our podcasts or if you have a theme or
1:18
something you want us to cover which is what happened with this and the next episode was something that somebody had
1:24
sent in Be sure to send those suggestions into podcast at blizzardwatch.com Specify the show that
1:29
it is for in the subject line as well as any special pronunciation of your name If you want to hit us up on Discords you
1:36
can hit us up on the Patreon or the Q and podcast questions channel for everybody Same rules apply And if you are a Patreon subscriber the Patreon Q
1:42
and podcast questions channel where we tend to look there first as a way of saying thank you for helping us keep the lights on And you can also send us
1:48
messages directly on Patreon and Liz will get them to us So we're going to talk about lore walking for a couple
1:55
reasons One we finally are getting something that I think we've been talking about It's been years at this point I think we've brought this up a
2:03
long time ago We've had questions about how we would like lore presented in the game uh catch-up mechanics and I think
2:09
Matt and I both have been saying this since Pandaria that the lore walkers are a perfect vehicle in which to do this
2:17
And we're finally getting that And what's happening on the PTR is we're getting Lur Walker chose return And
2:24
these quests these scenarios are based around helping you relive pieces of the
2:29
story that maybe you didn't get to experience the first time maybe were coming to the game later on or that are
2:35
relevant to what's happening now in game as far as like the current content or upcoming very soon to be content to help
2:42
you have a greater understanding of maybe some of the importance or significance of some of the uh little
2:49
tidbits of of NPCs you hear or some of the story lines behind them And again it's especially good for players that
2:55
haven't played this game which has been around for 20 years you know it's it's
3:00
been a while and then all the lore that came before it with Warcraft as well There's so much here and it's very it's
3:08
not good to make the expectation of somebody that they'll go back and play everything to learn everything And yes
3:13
they can use podcasts like this and we'll we'll we do our best to try to summarize that stuff but playing through
3:19
it is a whole different experience and getting to experience it in your own time is really really rad Uh and I'm
3:25
just really happy to see that they're doing this And I'm happy to see that they're leveraging the lore walkers to do this Did you have any initial
3:31
thoughts on it Matt no I think of nothing I am an empty void devoid of intelligence on within me swirls shadow
3:39
Dark shadow I mean okay now that I've said that and uh now my that the music is kicking up and I'm beginning to get
3:46
ready to sing you know how soon is now uh the reality is that I think I've
3:51
thought for a long time that they they brought up lore walking and then they just left it in And that's what happens
3:58
with lots of expansions A new thing comes up and then it gets left and we never see it again I like that they're
4:04
finally realizing hey um using the lore of the setting in the game doesn't have
4:11
to stop when the expansion stops Uh it is one of those things that when you
4:18
build an MMO uh you can you go through all the previous games and whatever else
4:23
uh and you you mine them for stuff but then the expansions happen and they just
4:30
eventually a lot of stuff just gets dropped because now we're off to the new shiny place Mhm I like that they're
4:37
starting to do this thing where they put connections between various shiny places
4:42
Um where you get to go back and see other things that happened and even see
4:48
more than you you saw otherwise Um yeah I I don't know how else to put it It's
4:54
just it's I don't people get really nervous about lore and if anything
5:00
changes the story or reveals something they didn't already know it's almost reflexively called a retcon And the
5:08
thing is is that it could even be a retcon because all retcon means is retroactive continuity So yeah if we
5:15
learn stuff we haven't seen before that is a retcon but that doesn't have to be bad No And I love the fact that Gohead
5:24
No no go ahead I just I was going to say I think that it's really nice that we have this chance to see the origins of
5:32
things and things we didn't see the last time because we weren't you know there's no way we would have seen them you know
5:38
Um the Zalat one comes to mind which I want to I want to I want to save that one for later so that people have uh a
5:44
little bit of warning because the first two I think are safe for most people Um but I I I'm with you I really like the
5:51
fact that they're doing something like this that sort of I like that interactivity of it I like the idea of
5:58
playing through it And the first one I want to talk about is the etherealss So you learn basically and I don't want to
6:05
say nothing new but it takes you on a refresher course and it starts with Burning Crusade and it starts with
6:11
Nethertorm and it starts with learning what the protectorate is and who they're going against and what they are and it
6:19
culminates in a sort of an interesting way You learn about uh the void
6:24
disciples You learn about how they were fighting against the void How the people that started fighting against the void
6:29
became consumed with all nothing but vengeance And then the protectorate was born to protect the rest of the
6:35
etherealss against that particular class of etherealss that were so hellbent on vengeance And it's the way I'm
6:43
explaining it is kind of how bonkers it is to try to explain it to somebody without going through it And if you've
6:48
never done that quest line in Burning Crusade which is a rather long one you probably it's it's very easy to miss
6:54
because they don't really go back to it And it's relevant now because one of the things you're dealing with is you're
7:01
dealing with that rogue section of etherealss You're dealing with the etherealss that were both swayed by the
7:07
void and have succumbed to the whispers but also the etherealss that have sworn vengeance on the void And then we're
7:14
starting to learn where maybe some of those loyalties might lie for some of the questing that we've seen as recently
7:19
as Undermine where the we're telling with the the dark heart has now been
7:25
whisked away into the hands of a rogue band of etherealss And this might not be
7:31
a set of void etherealss This might be that dark vengeance seeking group of
7:36
etherealss trying to do something that maybe we hadn't considered before looking for a weapon to take back Kesh
7:43
from its void corruption And yeah because those guys were fanatics If you go back to Burning Crusade they were
7:48
fanatics And they would absolutely murder you if they thought it would help Like they didn't care about stopping uh
7:55
Dementius in this world as much as they cared about finding a way to go back to Caresh and stomp all the they they were
8:03
very upfront about this Yeah And I feel like the dark heart is a perfect weapon for that And you it kind of puts that
8:08
piece together cuz one of the things that I know I've seen asked a whole bunch of time is why would the Ethereals want the darkard if they weren't working
8:14
for the void well yeah I mean it would make sense now when you go back and look
8:20
at that quest line that they would want something like that and why these ones in particular since they're not working
8:25
with Zalat why they would steal it because everybody always thinks why why
8:31
would you play a warlock if you're not going to be working for the Burning Legion it's like well so far none of the
8:37
warlocks that anyone's ever played have been working for the Legion They use Warlock power against the Legion Mhm You
8:45
know it's the that the same thing that you know demon hunters are all like you know they use the Fell against the Fell
8:51
Um using the shadow and void against Shadow and Void Yeah Absolutely There's
8:57
no reason not to do that in you know if you're not afraid of going insane Yeah Yeah And and I think it's interesting
9:03
though too is that it also the choice of this quest in particular and this quest
9:08
line I think is really important because one of the things I see talked about a lot and have been for a while is people
9:14
that are just starting to learn about some of the ethereal stuff didn't understand that there are multiple
9:19
factions of etherealss and that there's a ton within you know each of these
9:25
groups that are working at either odds or even if they have similar goals their method to get there is not necessary
9:31
necessarily uh sanctioned between them or agreed upon between these individuals
9:36
And seeing that divide seeing what sort of makes that the case I think is really
9:42
important And one of the other things that I think is really important is it brings back the threat of Dementius
9:49
because and this is where people are are a little upset about this potentially Uh
9:55
and I've seen some some grumbling but this is where I think our previous conversation about retcons are not
10:02
necessarily a bad thing In Burning Crusade you defeat Dementius Um that's
10:09
the culmination of this quest line And one of the things that I remember from it back then is that oh you hear the
10:16
exultation of like millions of etherealss through echoing of eternity or whatever the case is uh making you it
10:22
seem like in that moment that you 100% finally defeated
10:27
Dementius but Dementius is still out there and we've learned later on and p in expansions that came after it in
10:35
dealing with more of the void and as recently as Legion um talking about
10:40
Dimension still is there He's still on Caresh He still has etherealss under his sway He still has an influence or or it
10:49
uh it's still there it's still present Uh and people are like "Oh that was a reccon We killed him." It's like "No you
10:56
killed an aspect that was being summoned to the Burning Crusade to out." I mean
11:02
you go ahead Go ahead No no Go ahead Go right ahead I just feel like I can't believe anyone actually thought that
11:08
that was Dementius was gone Yeah You know what I mean like it it's like it's
11:14
a big void thing you know if you kill a void thing and it doesn't leave anything
11:20
behind but like it shoulder pads I'm sorry Things that are like made of like
11:26
it's like when you kill we killed Ragnaros how many times and he he can not only did he keep coming back to to
11:33
that burn you know he he he was still around in the Firelands It's just no man
11:38
I I've never understood this It's like it's World of Warcraft Demons come back all the time Uh you know things from
11:44
other dimensions come back all the time You can't you can't count him dead until you go to where they're from to kill
11:51
them And even then sometimes they can come back even from that Yeah Uh so yeah
11:57
I I I don't know why people are so surprised that Dementius is still alive
12:03
Uh I mean yes the voices of of like you know millions of Athereals sounded out in joy for his anguish That doesn't mean
12:10
that he's gone It just means they're glad he got some Yeah He got hurt and
12:16
hurting him was enough for them Yeah But but I mean that's just the thing about all of it is ultimately a character is
12:25
only gone so long as it serves the story better for them to be gone uh than for
12:31
them not to be Um we talk a lot about you know in when talking about fiction and literature and all that one of the
12:37
things we talk about is the Joker problem where you basically if you have a character who is too popular and too
12:44
useful to ever die even though it would make perfect sense for them to die Like
12:50
it's hard to even imagine that this is a discussion that that character should be dead but if they were to be dead you
12:58
couldn't use them in any more stories and they're so useful for stories Um WoW
13:04
has been pretty good about keeping the ones that died in a in a significant enough way dead I mean we went to the
13:10
Shadowlands to kind of get around that but even then we didn't like they're they died they're dead That's where
13:18
they're going to stay They're not coming back Uh Chaos comes to mind Deteran Disco isn't coming back
13:25
Um Arthus At this point I think we have really seen that if Arthus does come back it's only going to be for like some
13:33
incredible huge reason And they they went out of their way to make sure he didn't come back in Legion Mhm Not in
13:40
Legion uh Shadowlands you know i just I feel like that's the kind of thing Dimension was not fleshed out to the
13:46
point where you can't get more story out of it Like you can you can squeeze that
13:51
stone and get a lot of shadowy blood out of it because all we know about Dementius is his name and what he did
13:59
that made everybody hate him We have no we have no knowledge of what kind of being Dementius really is Yeah And and
14:06
also pair that in mind with the fact that he is a void entity and void entities are are nothing if not infinite
14:13
potential We've heard that a thousand times at this point So yeah I mean our
14:20
representation of what we've seen of him so far is limited and that's just the way it is But I I I like the choice here
14:28
specifically and I want to come back to that because again Burning Crusade was a very very very long time ago Uh and a
14:35
lot of the quest lines were starting to do this thing where they understood that
14:40
the story had a larger reach than they had originally intended and started putting more thought into it And the
14:48
Atherealss were one of those things where they had a whole culture they had a subdivide they had their own civil war
14:54
after a civil war they had a homeland that was lost to them A lot of the ideas of what we know about Ethereal started
15:01
in Burning Crusade Um the fact that they were collectors of information the fact that they were
15:07
meticulously uh archive that data uh the fact that they had ways to transfer that data
15:13
across the vast expanse of of the the nothingness of our reality space like
15:19
all of the stuff was established during Burning Crusade and the questing there And I think a lot of people didn't get
15:25
an opportunity to sort of explore that And I also think that a lot of the orc
15:30
stuff really took focus in the Burning Crusade more so than the etherealss And
15:36
to me the questing in Nethertorm was actually some of the best parts of Burning Crusade And so being able to go
15:43
back and and sort of experience that questing uh and kind of get a a
15:48
condensed version of what happened while you have Lur Walker Cho sort of chirping
15:54
in your ear and giving you like the highlights and little tidbits and interjections is insanely useful And the
16:02
other thing that it does is because it's not just the etherealss it also goes into Locust Walker and it goes into the
16:09
void and it goes into Yarriia and being a void elf and the whole story in there
16:15
and it recaps that as well which I think is really really nifty because again while we did experience that uh in
16:23
recent years showing how everything links together I think is really important as well We as lore heads and
16:31
and our own version of lore walkers here understand that there's a connection between the Burning Crusade Etherealss
16:38
the Locust Walker the Void Hunters and the Void Elves We know that Okay go
16:44
ahead dude I'm just going to say it You're being koi Just say it And just
16:50
Can we talk about the brokers now yeah we can talk about the brokers Go ahead Okay Uh L worker Cho doesn't stop when
16:59
he finally gets talk done talking about etherealss Uh the he and he talks a lot
17:04
about ethereals There's a lot to talk about Um and he has like there's the
17:10
thing I like about this is that you you play through and you see a lot of stuff like you see Locust Walker and Yria and all that but then you also get Lara work
17:17
basically just giving you a breakdown and it's great uh because you can just you know you don't have to worry about
17:23
oh did they miss something because you can just sit there and look at it Um but then he starts talking about the brokers
17:29
and if you didn't remember from Shadowlands the brokers were these people who just kind of showed up They all looked kind of weirdly semi-
17:36
mechanical Uh like they had heads that almost looked like sigils and they were just weird and really into trade and
17:44
bargaining and so forth to the point where they even had like a magical I don't know what you'd call it
17:50
like a city Yeah Like their their market city Tvesh The market city Yeah Tvesh Uh
17:56
sorry I couldn't remember the name And uh so Cho is basically saying you know
18:01
this is really weird They there's a lot of there's a lot of similarities between them I wonder if there's a connection
18:07
And then boom as he's just got done talking to you about Venari which if you don't
18:13
remember Venari was a character in Shadowlands that we worked with Um she basically sold us things called ciphers
18:18
which we used as part of the ways we were changing our gear and trying to get around the the realm of the the jailer
18:27
um the MA And you know she was basically being hunted by things and she was hiding from those things by hanging out
18:35
uh in the mall essentially And they had like I don't know what you call them
18:40
They're like houses like almost cartel houses What were they called they're like cartels Yeah They're they're
18:46
essentially they're essentially the equivalent of and and they basically all of them were hunting her Like Venari who
18:52
is presented as a her Um I believe the actress is also the one who is from the was in the expanse for a while Yes very
18:59
very good voice Um so she basically gives you a lot of missions and it's obvious that she's
19:04
playing us but at the same time we need her help A lot of stuff happens as you get out of talking to Cho about the
19:12
etherealss and the possible connect broker connection She basically sends somebody to fetch you saying "Hey
19:17
remember how you owe me uh I need to you to come here now." And as a result you
19:23
bring Locust Walker to her and the two of them speak to each other And the big
19:29
part of this conversation is when Locust Walker sees her he's like "Oh I didn't I
19:35
haven't seen you since our home world was destroyed." And I liked it that way Um then I remember I was going to say it
19:42
solidifies something that Matt called years ago Yeah I mean he just he's like you know I liked it better when you were
19:48
nowhere to be found Uh and she's like "Look I don't like you either but since the same people are hunting me as that
19:54
are hunting you it looks like we have to work together one last time." And he's like "Uh
20:00
fine." And she's like "Thank you uh for bringing him to me but right now I need to talk to him." So and you go back and
20:07
you tell Laka Cho and he's like jaw hits the floor going "Are you serious they are connected i was just
20:15
speculating." And I'm like "Yeah Cho me too Me too I was also
20:20
speculating But at any rate uh yeah so that happened and that basically it
20:27
makes a lot of sense Mhm Uh it makes sense because it implies that the
20:33
brokers the word isn't just it's a first off it's a play on the word broken Mhm
20:39
Because they are broken They're they just like the etherealss they're broken And one wonders how the difference is
20:48
like what what happened to them They clearly didn't get turned into like masses of bandage wrapped ethereal
20:54
energy But are they the bodies like that's like the is this the ethereal's
21:00
original form is the question Yeah Or is this like what's left is like literally
21:06
the energy things are the souls pulled out and these things are the bodies much
21:11
like the jailer had his essence pulled out Much like you had these souls and the forsaken uh being two separate
21:17
things Yeah And remember how when we did Shadowlands Venari hidden the M Yeah
21:23
Well if she's the body of somebody whose soul was pulled out it's not like the M's going to sense her or know she's
21:30
there Mhm And even if if if even if that's not exactly what happened clearly
21:36
imagine if there's a you have to use magic to keep what Dementius is doing from destroying you and it turns you
21:42
into a mass of pure energy What if there's a different thing that you
21:47
basically have to like cram your soul on down inside yourself or ward it in some
21:53
way the broker body could be literally like a a giant series of totems holding
21:58
their soul in place and keeping it shielded from everything Yeah And we also and I remember we made the
22:03
connection a while ago when we first were introduced to the brokers and what they do that uh their their predilction
22:10
for for collecting things They're yeah collecting and trading and trading
22:15
seemed very right at home with the Ethereals because again the Ethereals have a very heavy trading culture and
22:22
there was a possibility that they may have been the original merchant class of the uh of the
22:30
Ethereals way back when who may have just beat feet as soon as uh Dementia Scott showed up like well we can travel
22:36
to any reality we want so deuces and just pieces out right like we can see
22:41
yeah like some of them like some of them like the uh I can't remember their name already But the ones that wanted to fight the uh the void they might have
22:48
been like "Yes call for fighting." And others might have been "No it's time to go." Like that we this guy is going to
22:55
blast our souls out of our bodies We ain't staying We're on our way out the door
23:02
Yeah Um or for that matter they could be dead etherealss Yeah This could be what
23:08
dead ethereals look like Yeah Like they might you know they went to the Shadowlands Maybe that's why Yeah there's like so
23:16
many different ways this could play out And the interesting thing is that it's going to play out right like we're we're
23:21
going to get more information about this is something we've been asking for And in lore walking we get the tibbit of oh
23:27
we're going to get a payoff And there is something like all of us that have been sitting here screaming what the connection is There has to be a
23:33
connection We're going to get a payoff And I'm a-okay with that Like this is
23:38
this is a perfect use of it Um I do want to move on to the next section because
23:44
there are three that I want to try to cover today which is all three of them The second one and I don't know how much
23:49
time we want to spend on this one but it's the retelling of Arthus' past And
23:55
for some folks who never got to experience uh Wrath of the Lich King there was quests that took you through
24:02
and actually showed you what happened to Arthus uh not just the culling of
24:08
Stratholme but his fall from grace his obsession with keeping his people safe the type of person he was the
24:14
confrontation with him and Uther And yes even in Shadowlands you replay some of the confrontation between him and Uther
24:21
because you see it through Uther's perspective but I think it's fascinating that they choose to revisit it here And
24:27
I'm curious what your thoughts are why this is chosen Well I mean part of it is
24:32
my suspicion that the next expansion is going to be kind of a return to the
24:39
Shadowlands Um because we got the whole thing with the uh brokers coming up and the brokers were heavily involved in the
24:46
Shadowlands and it makes me wonder if the Lich King's story that the the whole
24:52
idea of the helm of domination the the Lich King's power flowing through it the
24:57
helm got destroyed and remade We are still not sure about the loyalty of of
25:04
you know oh bloody heck I can't remember his name and I really should be able to
25:10
the one who's the military one I want I keep wanting to say the prodigy I know it's the Primus The Primus Thank god
25:15
Yeah See it was a different band Um but the Primus is like involved in having
25:21
made the original helm of domination and he's involved in making the new one that was used to create the new jailer Um I
25:30
don't know where this all goes but it feels like the story of Arthus is very valuable in understanding the way that
25:38
the Shadowlands came you know it tried to get into Azeroth and the whole deal with
25:44
like you know uh the Zer Zerith uh Mortis and that its location on Azeroth
25:50
if we're going to end up going to another place like that at some point Yeah And it feels like we probably will cuz we know Zarith Ordos has already
25:57
been mentioned Yeah And I think I think you're on to something there And that's kind of where I was thinking too is I think I think this being tied back to
26:04
the Shadowlands is actually really important in understanding the birth of the Lich King why that was there what
26:10
happened with Arthus and his fall that sort of corruption and the rune blade in particular because fascinatingly enough
26:18
and and I think this is where the for me the importance stood out Two key things
26:23
that they do during this replay of the scenario is one going to Frostorn Cavern
26:28
where you see him taking up the blade for the first time It's Meridan reading the inscription It's the darkness that's
26:36
creeping in but picking up the rune blade is the start of the rapid descent of Arthus It's not the calling of
26:44
Strathome Calling of Strathome is sort of just like the spark that ignites the tinder He Yeah that's how you get him
26:51
angry enough to chase after you like a like a like a like a hornet That's That's not Yeah he had not nowhere near
26:58
the end of his journey there That's not even the start of it That's just the That's the note that gets you to start
27:03
doing it It it's it it was all a vehicle to make him hate Malganis enough to to
27:09
seek him And that's all it was right and because if you if it was just the calling of Stratholme if Malganis had
27:16
not shown up Arthus would have felt bad But he would have felt justified I guess
27:22
is the best way that I can phrase it Yeah Because But he also would have felt done He would have felt done He would have felt concluded But because Melanis
27:28
showed up and ribbed him that forced him to follow to Northrren And now a face
27:35
was put to the plague So in Arthus' mind the task that he has to do is keep the
27:40
people of Lon safe Everything he's making a decision on is based off of that root idea and to him because now he
27:49
knows that Mganis is and I'm air quoting knows that Melganis is the orchestrator of the plague He has to defeat him
27:55
because if Mganis is loose the plague can strike at any time again It's not
28:01
done The plague is still present and if he doesn't finish it more of his people will die That's how you get him Yeah And
28:08
that's useful because that's how you get him to give up a piece of himself at a time Yeah By through his sense of duty
28:14
right yeah He won't you know he's at the time that Arthus was going through all this he wasn't
28:21
bribable He wasn't corruptable You had to actually use his sense of honor and
28:27
duty against him You had to and and also there's a lot of sunk cost fallacy in
28:32
what Arthus uh one of the things you see is how he you know how he plays off the
28:37
mercenaries to to destroy his own ships so he can't go home like he's being
28:43
ordered to he had and therefore since he can't go home anyway he's going to continue on the mission that he's on And
28:50
then he like lets his own he lets the soldiers kill the mercenaries because he
28:55
knows that if he doesn't he'll lose their loyalty and he needs them to fulfill his mission to save everyone
29:02
from Melanis and then condemning and then condemning the people by burning of the the ships to making sure that the
29:09
only way that they could come back is after it was done and defeated essentially turning it into a suicide
29:14
mission You have to basically we're going to have to wait here until another group of ships shows up to get us
29:19
because these ships are gone Yeah And I I think that's really important to start showing that And the other thing that I
29:25
think is important and I think is actually really eye opening is when you look at the dungeon that they choose to
29:32
have you go through again After everything is said and done you go through the the basically the inner sanctum the the the resting place of
29:38
where Frost is And if anybody did this at level it will look very very similar
29:45
except you're playing it solo but I think it's important here because it's all about the rune blade This is where
29:52
Frostorn is when not in the possession of the Lich King And it shows you all of
29:57
the souls that Frostorn has claimed It starts with in this case Jana having a
30:03
conversation with Uther the soul of Uther as it was consumed by Frostorn or
30:08
at least the fragment of it that was And we know this because we know through Shadowlands that Arth that uh Uther's
30:15
soul was fragmented essentially And then you go through and you complete the task and and you get the Jana Proudmore uh
30:22
realization You get all of that But again it's all about Frost They could have chosen any other moment at that
30:30
point They could have chosen any other Arthus interaction but they chose that one And I think it's really telling and
30:37
really important Well the fact that it's a rune blade too kind of makes us wonder if it's the fact that it's a rune blade
30:42
or the runic aspect of it Yeah exactly You know and that would relate to the the new helm of domination the uh crown
30:50
of will or whatever it's called Yeah It would also relate to any other use of runes over over this entire thing Runic
30:57
magic is one of the one of the things about it that they made they've made point they made clear many times can't
31:04
talk today Uh they've made clear very many times that a broken runic item when
31:09
repaired is stronger Yes Which it's I want to I want to point this out real quick The last part the last part that
31:16
you go through is you play as the Lich King fighting against the raid that inevit that inevitably kills you and the
31:24
end of it is the shattering of Frostmore It's the shattering of the blade That's
31:30
where that scenario ends which leads into what Matt's talking about And you can continue I just wanted to point that out No I mean that's a very good point
31:35
to to make Frostorn gets destroyed Technically speaking uh it was remade
31:41
into Shadow Morn Well some of it was because it wasn't all the fragments of Frostorn No but you could if someone
31:47
were to get it wouldn't be that hard if we can get you know if we had artifact we had like our artifacts like you know
31:53
burned out by so and so's power Uh my god if I can't remember Sargeras's name what is wrong with me today but when
31:59
Sargeras's power the power of that sword he stuck into the planet uh which I think is going to be tied in fairly soon
32:05
to the Black Blood stuff in this expansion if we don't see it until next expansion Mhm Um but I think that it's
32:13
quite possible that by the end of that expansion we might have to remake Frostorn Um if only because we need
32:19
something to stop whatever's coming And only a remade Frostorn especially if you
32:25
have to break shadow mourn to make it because now you're breaking another rune weapon to make the original rune weapon
32:31
And remember that some of the pieces were used in in one of the artifacts Mhm Uh the the one that was dualbladed uh
32:39
icing death and the other one I can't remember the other one's name but the two of them were also created out of
32:44
shards of Frostorn So if you needed to get all the shards together you'd need to break an artifact and and a legendary
32:50
and get all the pieces together to remake Frostorn It would probably be one of the strongest runic weapons ever made
32:56
especially depending on who remade it Like if the Primus remade it that's a big deal The Primus is all practically
33:02
the inventor of runic magic or at least he is on the Shadowland side of things So yeah I just it feels like the runic
33:09
stuff is important I don't know what role it's going to play but we keep hearing the the idea of you have to
33:14
remake the final Titan or we know that the Last Titan is the name of the third expansion in this series Well I think it
33:22
all ties together and I think I think the runic aspect of it is what's the I I agree with you I think it's the
33:27
important part and I think it's chosen here because look at the Titan language Look at what we've been experiencing in
33:33
the war within when we started going through the discs uh the Titan disc fragments and these are more discs of Norgan that essentially we're putting
33:40
together it the Titan language is a runic language it just is everything we
33:46
do or see with them it's there they're involved in it when you start dealing with the power of the light the language
33:53
of of those that wield the light the language of the light bomb the language of of uh why can I remember them now are
34:01
our big glowing friends The Naru all of that is runic It's all
34:07
very similar in its its cadence and and the way that it is presented and they're
34:13
whenever they cast a spell what are they doing or whenever they use their power they're showing a basically a rune I
34:19
think it all ties together and I think it flows into specifically I think the third the third
34:25
story which we'll get here to in a minute Uh but I think it also goes into just what's happening as we move forward
34:33
Like you said I think it has to do with like the Titan and Azeroth and rebuilding on Titan Go into the chamber
34:39
where you return the the disc fragments Just look around It's a heart chamber There's runes everywhere Like it's
34:45
science magic is really the best way that I can put it for for what they do there And I think it is important You
34:51
want to hear Well you want to hear my wildest speculation about all this yeah please I have always felt that there's
34:57
two characters in Warcraft who have a very strong connection without having anything to do with each
35:04
other We have been thinking about the Last Titan in reference to Azeroth for a
35:09
long time now I think it's Sargeras Yeah that's where I was just about to go Man we are in the same way sometimes I'm
35:15
sorry Sargeras and Arthus have a very similar narrative you know storyline You know they both wanted to do the right
35:22
thing They both went further and further a field from where they should have gone They both ended up like convinced you
35:29
know Arthus is like I got to kill everybody because that's the only way to stop the Legion Um Sargeras was like I
35:35
got to destroy everything because that's the only way to stop the void But I think since neither of them was aimed at
35:42
the right place cuz we know now that the void is not going to destroy everything
35:47
No the void the void's like I want everything to be exist because I want it to be mine Yeah I want it to all exist
35:53
at once Yeah you know even stuff that shouldn't But imagine if you if you
35:59
could remake Sargeras Sargeras is the final Titan Yeah Cuz he killed the rest
36:05
of them Yeah Think I mean also to to go along that line same lines like we know and this is like because we know where
36:12
we're going with this One of the themes of the war within is that the Titans were not trustworthy And Sargeras
36:18
already knew that And at the end like yes we've imprisoned Sargeras with the
36:24
Pantheon but we know that we're going to be dealing with the Pantheon again And wouldn't it be just some wonderfully
36:30
poetic thing if we're the ones that broke Sargeras out and pointed the cannon where it needed to go well also
36:36
think about this Each of the Titans one of the problems might be that the Titans aren't united Yeah Well because we know
36:43
they're not Yeah And the problem here is if you think of them not as beings but
36:50
as concepts they each have a rune Yeah And if you want to rebuild the final
36:57
Titan you would use other runes You would make a rune god out of it Force
37:03
them for them to work in harmony to create a final entity Right Yeah And since that the the Pantheon is
37:09
effectively broken and has been this whole time remaking it would create the
37:15
last Titan And so the thing is I think from the beginning you and I have both said that whatever Azeroth is it isn't a
37:21
Titan Yeah I would agree with that It's it's something else It might be you know
37:26
to the Titans as the Titans are to like us but whatever it is it's not just a
37:31
Titan It's it's something greater It can empower It's you know it's empowering aspects now Well here's here's the thing
37:39
about that though Sargeras knows what it is Like I am fully in belief of that He
37:45
believes that I don't think he I don't think he ever believed that it was just another Titan soul which is why he was
37:51
so gungho on swaying it and not destroying it right because if it was just another Titan soul he's cleared
37:58
planets in Twain He's killed world soul like and he's killed other Titans Not a big deal for him right and he would just
38:04
extract the essence and and torture it back on on you know Argus He didn't
38:09
There's a very distinct reason why he didn't We don't know what that is but I have a feeling it has to do with what
38:15
Azeroth actually is And yeah you said this years ago and and I agree with you
38:21
When he plunged the sword into the planet I don't think he was trying to kill the planet I think he was aiming
38:28
for a Titan facility And I think he was trying to take the locks off because Yeah that could make sense because look
38:34
where he struck How close was he to one of the prime Titan facilities right like
38:40
you have you have the Hall of origination You have a major system for
38:46
the Titan facilities right there But to go back to the the why this is important with Arthus I think you're correct in
38:51
that the parallels there are also really relevant looking at Arthus' journey and
38:57
then looking at Sargeras and understanding where Sargeras
39:02
fanaticism came from because he thought he was doing the right thing to achieve his goal And I think cuz everybody's
39:09
like "Well what does Arthus have to do with what's coming in the next two expansions?" I think this is it I think
39:14
between the runic the runic connection probably going back to the Shadowlands because of the broker connection again
39:20
which I have a theory on that later um which probably not in this episode what whatever Uh but then looking at Sargeras
39:27
and and the fallout there and I like and I I really like your idea of having all
39:32
of the Titans have to be essentially forged together whether it's through their bond or whether it's an actual
39:38
like we rip their essence and forge it into it I don't know But regardless their powers combined they captain
39:45
universe this thing um in reforging them into an actual functional unit I think
39:51
that all plays together I think everything feeds into each other which Yeah And the thing is is we keep talking
39:56
about the Titans not being trustworthy but it might not be that they're not trustworthy It might be that they are
40:02
broken Yeah They're just they might not be they might not be untrustworthy They might just be idiots
40:08
Well they're not trustworthy but not because they're evil malevolent forces so much as they do not understand that
40:15
they are doing the wrong thing Yeah And how many times have we seen that arthus
40:20
didn't understand that he was doing the wrong thing Sargeras didn't understand that he was doing the wrong thing And
40:26
now the Titans don't understand that they've been doing the wrong thing Which leads directly into our next part which
40:33
deals with how many times as we as champions have not understood that we're not doing the right thing Uh the next
40:40
section is all about Zalat And this is where there is going to be some spoilers
40:46
uh here uh that I think are a little bit more major So join us in about 20
40:51
minutes for our wrap-up uh if you really care about this and want to and and and go through it yourself Otherwise here we
40:57
go You get to see the origin of Zalot Before you get to that point Lur Walker
41:04
uh Lor Walker Cho sort of gives you a recap of everything we know about Zalat
41:11
the acquisition of the Black Blade of the Empire or the the Blade of the Black Empire uh being sought out by priests
41:19
the interaction between it and its wielders us essentially going and
41:24
grabbing it if you were a priest doing the Legion uh whole thing of going and
41:30
getting it learning of its past and and and releasing it and breaking up the cultist the Twilight
41:36
cultists that were trying to resurrect the blade Uh not not resurrect blade excuse me Uh use the blade to resurrect
41:43
uh the Cthrai that fought and and killed Tier um you like it takes you through
41:49
all of those events which I think are actually important because again a lot of really interesting Zalat lore was
41:57
hidden behind order hall stuff for the priests as well as specifically the
42:02
priest artifact quest line and if you didn't play a priest you didn't get to experience it and it was very important
42:10
as far as who Zalot was what it was and why it was important to us Uh one of the
42:16
things that I think we should probably move on to talking about too is uh this is great for everybody who who didn't
42:22
play a priest in Legion obviously because you get to see a big chunk of Zalat's backstory that you didn't otherwise see Um you also get to see a
42:30
few moments that I think are really funny I don't know how else to put it Like when Zalat is buttering up the
42:36
priest Oh yeah The whispers the sucking up to the the sucking up to the priest I wouldn't even say sucking up sucking up
42:43
would be like you know I want something specific and I'm going to like try just to toy to you for favor Zotath isn't
42:49
doing that Zath is trying to it's trying to lead by example It's trying to say you know you you know I like how you do
42:56
things man You know I think we work well together you know and things for us Yeah
43:01
Yeah You're like a friend I haven't had that many friends I I like this thing we're doing which is very much like
43:07
Zalot has been throughout the war within every time she sees Yarria she just
43:12
immediately starts on that you know you and I we're not so different So that's that's nice too But also you get to see
43:19
the things in Battle for Azeroth that Zalat was up to You get to see the whole deal with N'oth Mhm Which comes which we
43:26
then have a whole different thing about because I think at this point we kind of have to talk about the new the new story
43:33
Revelations Well I want to I do want to talk about one other thing before before you get to that third part there is
43:39
something I think is really important that Lur Walker Cho does during the intermission They actually went through
43:44
and one of the one of the cool features of having Zalot or as the community has often dubbed her knife um is that as a
43:52
priest wielding it you occasionally get whispers from her in game depending on where you are And these are very
44:01
important things as far as like understanding her disposition and and
44:06
what she wants from you in a lot of a lot of the capacity of her I don't want to say malice but her indifference to
44:14
the existence in general But Lore Walker actually has collected every single one
44:19
of the whispers So as you're sitting on the bench next to Lur Walker Cho you can
44:25
actually individually go through them And again I think this is an incredibly smart choice because if you never played
44:33
a priest you never heard those whispers And this gives you the opportunity to do
44:38
that And I can hear Mitch just reciting each of these as we're talking about them now
44:44
instinctively Um but it's a really smart choice and it leads directly in to the
44:51
third and final section the origin of Zalat And I'll let Matt talk I've talked
44:57
a lot here I'll let him go for it So whenever you're ready It's really interesting because when we finally
45:02
start seeing the last bit it goes back to something we saw in Dragon Flight of all things Uh in Dragon Flight there's a
45:09
quest line involving those dorm room that at one point trying to save Chrommy from you know eternal time loop jumping
45:16
with with basically one of the uh twi I want to say twilight dragon flight but
45:22
that's not the right word at all It's the It's the uh infinite dragon infinite dragon flight Yes The two of them are
45:27
are getting sent back to various you know times and spaces Um on the way to
45:33
deal with it we accidentally create an Azeroth ruled by murlocs Uh but also we
45:38
eventually go back to the the black empire and there's this big fight with elementals versus the old gods and the
45:45
old gods are confining and controlling them This time we go back in time again
45:50
uh through the lore law walker So we don't actually go back He just shows us what happened which I think is
45:57
interesting by the way because of the framing of it is oh yeah no don't worry we l walkers do more than just tell the
46:02
story you already know We keep digging cuz no mystery is uh we don't like mysteries We like know Yeah We want Yeah
46:09
We want to have the whole deal Um you get back there and L Walker's like "Look
46:14
we got this this uh tablet and it's got like a it's got a playbyplay of this
46:20
weird battle that happened when the old gods sent all their forces to Nylotha
46:26
because Zalat was attacking it." Yeah I saw this moment and I cheered by
46:31
the way because I don't remember if it was you or me that said it on the show but a while ago we said that Zalat was
46:38
not an ally of the old gods at all and was likely on the side of the void because the old gods are parasites They
46:44
were a weird mutation of void flung into reality It it definitely feels like Salatas has
46:51
a more direct connection to the void than the old gods do Um and that kind of is played out as you're as you go into
46:59
the uh L Walker Cho bit with the tablet There's a a one of the Cathrai whose
47:06
name is Zithixen I don't even get me It's X I T H I XX I N It's another jazz
47:15
hands Yeah Zithan uh says "Come forth chosen Zalatath seeks to assurp the
47:21
masters Lord N'oth will not tolerate this betrayal Go forth with N'oth's
47:27
gifts of power Your mission is too important for you to fail And then from there you basically have to go to every
47:32
other old god's hangout Well kind of So there there's an important thing here that I think that we missed is one of
47:39
the opening segments is that Zas is attacking because she has discovered what N'oth is building beneath Nolatha
47:46
It doesn't tell you what it is but it tells you that there is a very specific reason that Nyotha existed which we kind
47:55
of suspect Well that's that's the reason we find that out though is was coming next because the other old gods talk
48:03
about it When you get there when you get there uh N'oth s himself you know lowly
48:09
though you are your contri contributions are seen and acknowledged Bring the others to me Yagsaran says "Zallatath's
48:16
betrayal was inevitable but she has played her hand too soon We will crush her." Uh Yashraj says "Z'oth should have
48:23
known Zalat would target Nyallotha when she learned what he was building Fortunately our aid will leave him in
48:30
our debt." And Cathun whispers "Zallatath underestimates us Her
48:35
attempts to distract us have failed Even we will work together when faced with
48:41
such blatant betrayal." So that's go ahead Go ahead I want to go back real quick too because we see physical
48:47
representations of all the old gods here Their essence essentially is brought to Nya or their consciousness It's not
48:53
necessarily their physical form Um the only one that has a physical form presence present is Naz' Natha is is
49:01
theirs But and I'm going to take this with a grain of salt because this is
49:07
still the PTR and they may change the art assets But I was very shocked to see
49:13
that the current representation of Yasharaj is just a Shaw with armor And
49:19
I'm curious if that's going to change to more accurately represent the description of Yasharaj in game even by
49:27
its followers because right now it doesn't have multiple heads It has a head It is What's really weird about the
49:34
N'oth thing though is it doesn't even really look necessarily like a Sha You mean Yash looks like a Naru No I mean if
49:41
you look at the physicality of it if you look at the shot of uh shot of anger or whatever it is it's that same physical
49:48
frame but with bits at the same time but at the same time it actually does kind of get a Naru like shape I I don't know
49:55
how else to explain it There's a bit where you see the bunch of them in the in the chamber fighting I don't know if
50:00
they're fighting directly or if they're providing power but they're there in the chamber And there's Zalat And Zalot
50:08
looks a lot like Dementius Yeah it's a a the original Dementius the the I don't
50:14
want to say withered form but but it is it's it's a scrawnier looking elemental
50:19
Uh it's got some it looks like the the the kind of elementals that were more
50:25
like like thin and it's got like kind of a cloak head I don't know See it's it's
50:31
the original hers is the original uh blueberry form Like the the void I
50:37
forgot what they're called Uh the that warlocks get the void pet um originally looked like this way back in like closed
50:44
beta like generations ago and then eventually moved into but they also used its model in Burn Crusade a lot A lot
50:52
Yeah it was all over the place So yeah I I I don't know It's really interesting what exactly was going on under there We
51:00
have no idea Nothing tells us Yeah No I know that we we might but we don't currently But I also think that one of
51:07
the other important things that you get in that moment is that and this is where Lur Walker comes in with again even more
51:15
information we didn't have before And a lot of people are questioning how Lur Walker Cho got this you in the moments
51:23
you are essentially contributing to all the old god's power and their minions
51:28
sealing Zalat into the blade That is her punishment Not to be destroyed because
51:34
she I don't know that they can destroy her not to send her back to the void because that would just be folly but to
51:39
trap her in the blade And apparently there was a conversation between her and
51:45
N'oth after this happened where she essentially says "Wouldn't your plans be
51:52
better if your brothers were not in your way when you are ready just reach out."
52:00
And that's what you see going back to what Matt was saying the Battle for Azeroth stuff And then when we
52:06
essentially released Zalatath from the blade and received N'oth's blessing and the like it still had the blade as part
52:13
of the plans for what N'oth was going to do because again remember we pierced the
52:18
carrapase of N'oth by Rathon wielding Zalot and shoving it into the carropase
52:26
to let us get in and do our damage to N'oth All of this is part of a plan set
52:32
in motion by Zalat And now it begs the question she knew what he was doing What
52:39
part of the long con is this for her and we see these things I want to go back to
52:45
the Holof Fall real quick In the War Within there's a whole quest line in Hollow Fall We've talked about this a
52:51
little bit where you're dealing with a void fish Essentially it's a fish that
52:57
talks directly into your brain It has multiple eyes and looks a whole hell of a lot like you would expect to see
53:03
something that N'othH would do right i believe we called this out on both the regular podcast and this where it looks
53:09
just like the fish that presented itself to Queen Azara when she made the deal
53:16
right nas not gone Are you asking me if it's Oh yeah It does look very much like that Yeah Um not It's interesting to
53:23
think about Yeah Naz gone Also think of it this way when she says you think
53:28
about how much better your plan would be if your brothers were all gone They're all gone now And then Yeah But also the
53:36
thing Joe just said about how the it wasn't technically it wasn't it wasn't Zealat anymore cuz Zealot had been taken
53:43
out of it So it was just it was just a you know prison It was the prison prison knife We've been talking for a long time
53:50
about where N'oth is Mhm But if you think about it one of the places he
53:55
could be is in that knife That's could where he could have gone when he quote
54:01
unquote died because that's what the knife was there for And the fact that
54:07
she straight up calls them pestilent Uh I think the exact phrase is something like pestilence pretending to be kings
54:14
or something Um pestilence pretending to be lords Well okay Uh when she says that
54:21
it immediately makes me think of the one quote unquote old god that wasn't there
54:26
at the time because it didn't exist Gahun uh big old disease god Mhm Why
54:32
were they the Titans studying that like they said that they were studying all of
54:37
them but why were they studying that and what did it have to do with you know
54:43
things like the blood plague that we see in Battle for Azeroth right around the
54:49
same time that Zalat is making her move to get out and N'oth is essentially
54:56
working with her to free her like did she do something for him already and he
55:02
was paying her back and it just a lot of this stuff comes around and you and you're like thinking okay this probably
55:08
ties in but how does it tie in like did did Gahun was that something that they
55:14
needed like and what if N'oth's whole goal is to make himself into a lord
55:22
instead of a pestilence and we've said it before we've tied back to the whole idea that when we get back there N'oth
55:29
sees us and and knows we're there When we time when we time travel back trying to save Chrommy N'oth is aware of us He
55:36
even comments on us Especially if you had that the hat thing that he put on everybody N'oth was like "Aha that's
55:44
interesting." And we know that the old gods mess around with time travel all the time because it's the whole the whole war of the ancients has a big deal
55:51
where the old gods put the whammy on those dorm moves so they can do time travel shenanigans So yeah there's there
55:57
is this puts this puts into a completely different category You know we've been
56:02
speculating for eons as to what Zalot is and we still don't know We still don't know exactly what Zealot is but it does
56:09
seem that Zalot is a lot more like Dementius and other void lords than she
56:14
is an old god Like the old gods almost seem like she disdains them She straight
56:20
up doesn't she doesn't view them as equals much less superiors They might have the power but they're definitely
56:27
not truly loyal to the void As if becoming something physical is
56:33
inherently corruptive to the void It'll it'll either drive the the fleshy thing insane or it'll make the thing that
56:40
comes out of it the old gods into into things that don't believe in the thousand truths anymore Maybe But
56:46
there's also an interesting thing that I think going through the Zelatas story line that it it brought something back
56:52
up that I had forgot she had said when doing the battle for Azeroth stuff
56:57
because again if you weren't dealing the blade stuff or you didn't really pay attention to the questing you wouldn't
57:02
get it One of the things you do is you're you're going to get three void objects uh to essentially bring to N'oth
57:08
to free her to to gain her power And you're being used essentially a little bit by her to to get her goal But one of
57:14
the things she says when you get the first void stone and kill the priest that is attempting to open the void
57:21
stone is that ah it has been so long since I've taken a mortal form and this
57:26
one is pleasing Don't you agree uh and that means that at some point in time
57:33
she had a physical form and it wasn't just this elf that she is this dead elf
57:38
uh mage or priest that she is inhabiting She had a physical form at some point So
57:43
I don't know that necessarily it's an ultimate corruption at least that maybe
57:48
not the void doesn't view it as an ultimate corruption but whatever the old gods are is not what they expected or
57:56
wanted which I think is a really important distinction because she's not exactly opposed to a physical form Does
58:02
that make sense i I understand where you're going with it but I think it's it's similar to the fact that we see what the void elves are like The void
58:08
can and will work in and with physical form But the the the old gods are not
58:14
about working with physical form They are completely about degeneration
58:20
destruction corruption These are things that the old gods are inherently doing
58:25
One of the things that I always remember this is when in the uh in the stuff
58:30
where Logan changed the the Halls of Stone and the Halls of Lightning memories he corrupted what they said One
58:39
of the things he called the old gods was necrophotic entity light eating lightkilling He called them necrophotic
58:45
uh parasite parasitical necrophotic entity I I think about that a lot because what is why would the old gods
58:53
be doing that why would he tell the discs to say they're doing that cuz remember everything in those discs in
58:59
the Halls of Stone and Halls of Lightning comes from Logan He changed them That's why they stole the original
59:05
disc of Norana so they could see what they actually said And I feel like there's a there's a clue there Logan
59:12
didn't start out wanting to serve the old gods That was not his goal He got
59:17
his mind messed with But it's quite possible since we know a constellar was
59:23
was hanging out in oldir It's quite possible Loin was trying to call the constellar there We know that he was in
59:30
fact because the whole thing about the constellar arriving was keyed to the
59:35
first designate's death The prime designate And when he died Aldoir
59:43
thought the prime designate was dead because the other the real prime designate had been sealed away in
59:48
another dimension So Loan was free to take the role and then he he arranged
59:54
for his own death So he was trying to stop the old gods If he's void mad why
1:00:00
is he trying to stop the old gods but it goes back to the fact that what form is
1:00:05
what is Visax a cathrai Mhm What what is
1:00:11
Lo seen sending after tier and those that were loyal to him cthrai Cthraxi
1:00:18
What does Zalat wake up cthrai Yeah And not only that but the power that she
1:00:24
first consumes when she is picked up by a priest The first thing she does is consume the power of a Cathrai Yeah I am
1:00:32
starting to think that the Cthrai are not loyal to the old gods I I think I would tend to agree with you with the
1:00:38
way that it's presented And we even see when we see the whole deal with Gahun
1:00:43
happening as athraxi trying to do that even one step further going back to the the the Nyatha invasion which by the way
1:00:51
I'm convinced that Nyalatha was either a Titan facility or prototype Titan facility We'll talk about that in a
1:00:57
later episode Um there's no Cthraxi there They're all faceless ones Yeah
1:01:03
there are no Kathrai at all Yeah Well here here's another thing to think about Where does Niilotha appear when it is
1:01:10
invading our reality aldom Yep And uh the the the bloody heck
1:01:18
not uh Aldom and uh Yeah I know you're God It's the ter the the the lamenting
1:01:24
woods or whatever It's in it's in Pandaria specifically It's where the
1:01:29
base that you go into and find another Titan guardian Norishen and find where
1:01:38
the heart chamber had been The heart chamber but not a heart chamber like the other ones we see A heart chamber where
1:01:45
they kept the heart of of you know Yashar Yag Surj And if they kept the
1:01:52
heart of Yasharaj well it certainly probably would have been in like if you
1:01:58
had a heart chamber that's where you'd put it Mhm Like think about the other
1:02:03
heart chambers that they have throughout Azeroth They have at least one more Why do they have that heart chamber and this
1:02:09
heart chamber do they have other chambers that they have other chambers that are similar to them because we've been to them you we literally go into
1:02:16
one to read the discs that we uh the Titan fragment discs that we reassemble in the war within it is essentially
1:02:22
another heart chamber Yeah So think about with also a portal that with a portal that's very similar to when we
1:02:28
did the uh dark the nightmare visions I'm just thinking of as well which that's a whole other thing Yeah But
1:02:34
there was a rumor at one point that they were planning on making it obvious that General Visax was tier obviously didn't
1:02:42
end up going with that But think about that General Visax was the first Chthrai we ever saw We didn't even know what he
1:02:48
was Nobody knew what he was He was just this nightmarish thing What if we've
1:02:55
seen other Titan constructs be corrupted by the old gods we've seen the the you
1:03:00
know big Osir you know like Osiran the undaunted Osiran was a giant Titan construct Mhm He got turned into an old
1:03:08
god servant the the Anubisath turned into old god servants The tool turned
1:03:14
into obsidian destroyers Yeah That it's clear that it isn't just
1:03:19
mortals getting curse of fleshed The the Titan constructs can be taken over and
1:03:24
controlled and even mutated by the the power of the old gods The
1:03:30
chthraxi might be Titan constructs I mean it would make sense why they could fight tier Mhm If he said and think
1:03:37
about it if Loin is sending the Chthraxi out after people you know it might be
1:03:43
tied to the only other old god we see with Chthrai servants is N'oth And
1:03:49
you're arguing and it's a good argument that Nyallotha might be some kind of
1:03:54
Titan construct We've heard for eons about how there's a backup for Azeroth
1:04:00
but we've never heard maybe the backup was for the Titan facilities on Azeroth
1:04:06
and Nylotha is the corrupted one And that's why what he's building under
1:04:13
Nylotha when Nylotha doesn't have a physical presence what does that mean
1:04:18
under it unless it's like using the the phrase underlying it He's digging into
1:04:25
the essence of what makes Nylotha to get to the part below it which is the source
1:04:30
code for the planet Essentially he wants to take over all the Titan facilities
1:04:35
Remember when we tried fighting him they wouldn't let us use Mhm Mhm Who wouldn't let us use it and
1:04:43
who wouldn't let us use it odin and presumably Mimon Well Mimon's only up on
1:04:49
us right yeah But presumably all the current Titan watchers that live up
1:04:54
there have one thing in common They have all been directly subjugated by the
1:05:00
power of an old god Thorum Hodier you know Freya Mimmerron all of
1:05:06
them were at one point and I'm quoting Meron here corrupted by the fiend in the prison Mhm But he's gone If N'oth had
1:05:16
created something and that you know and Loin was using Chthrai to attempt to
1:05:22
stop it it's part it then comes out to us It's possible to consider that he had
1:05:27
made a deal with the knife I mean it says things about the whole deal when you have it and you go to you go to
1:05:35
Aldoir If you are a shadow priest with that knife you go into Aldoir and it's
1:05:41
not there's the knife is not like "Ooh wow Yay fancy It's like yeah this place again Yeah like I said there's a reason
1:05:47
that they chose what they chose and I think it I think you're on the the right track for it I It's one of those things
1:05:53
where I I want to round this out real quick Going back to the idea of time walking in general I am really happy to
1:06:00
see it and I'm really happy to see this implementation of it I'm happy to see it not just reliving and retelling
1:06:08
important bits of story I'm happy to see that it is injecting new bits as well to
1:06:15
sort of fill in the gaps that we have been speculating on for years And I
1:06:20
think that is really smart of them because not only does it give uh you
1:06:27
know a recap for folks that maybe didn't get to experience the stuff the first time around It's something for those of
1:06:33
us who did experience it to learn more or to have some of our suspicions validated So I am looking forward to
1:06:40
this going live and seeing what the final form is because again Yeah like what model are they gonna actually use
1:06:46
for you know for for um you know Zath might have
1:06:52
a different form Yeah Right Like or like I'm really curious to see that Um and
1:06:58
I'm also curious to see what things will be potentially hidden inside of it because one of the other things that you
1:07:04
found during all of these is there's tons of interactable books There's tons
1:07:09
of things that you can actually read and do and and find And I don't think everything has been discovered yet but
1:07:15
I'm also not entirely sure that everything has been placed in those scenarios on the PTR because Blizzard
1:07:22
has been incredibly smart about playing some things close to the chest even when
1:07:27
they go to uh the PTR and not necessarily putting something in to be
1:07:32
data mined or experienced until it goes live And I'm curious to see what
1:07:38
additional things get added cuz I know for damn sure that I will be scouring
1:07:45
every possible inch of what's available to me in each of these scenarios to see
1:07:50
what I can click on and what I can't because there's always hidden stuff there too And the other thing that I
1:07:56
think is really interesting is not only they doing just the show of these events and doing the scenarios for them they're
1:08:03
also giving you an opportunity between each of the sections of it cuz each one is broken down into like three or four
1:08:09
sections of story you get to interact with L Walker and ask them questions and
1:08:15
they give you their perspective The other thing that this I find fascinating they're doing and is a whole topic in
1:08:21
and of itself Many many many years ago a ton of us have speculated whether Lur
1:08:27
Walker Cho is actually a Pandaran And several folks in the community have
1:08:32
believed that he may in fact be a bronze dragon that is just kind of chilling in the periphery because of the magic that
1:08:39
the Lore Walkers use and because of his way of knowing things that none of the other lore walkers seem to be able to
1:08:46
know And this does not help with that sort of speculation I've seen so many
1:08:51
people back on that train and it very well may be the case But if they use this as a vehicle to show more about
1:08:57
Lure Walker show in particular I would not be upset So but I think that's going
1:09:04
to do it for today We could go on for another hour about this and in fact we probably will Um if you have questions
1:09:10
for this or any of our podcast be sure to send those in to podcastwatch.com
1:09:15
specify the show that it is for in the subject line as well as any special pronunciation of your name If you want
1:09:21
to hit us up on Discord we have the Q and Podcast questions channel which is open for everybody Same rules apply If
1:09:26
you are a Patreon supporter please be sure to hit us up on the Patreon Q and podcast questions channel We tend to
1:09:32
look there first as a way of saying thank you for helping us keep the lights on And you can also send us messages directly on Patreon and we will get them
1:09:39
for sure With that folks we'll see you next week
1:09:44
[Music]
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