Up next in 10
This week Joe and Eric were joined by Liz, and it was a great opportunity to begin discussing the abundance of Loa we've had in Midnight so far. Our cohosts discussed some of the ins and outs of becoming a Loa, and talked about what they thought they might be the Loa of one day, since none of them were nepo babied into the situation. After that they moved into Harandar and its relationship to the Emerald Dream, and how that figures in to the Rift of Aln and the World Soul.
Then, they wrapped up with a discussion on revamped zones, and which ones we'd like to see in the future. While Northrend is in the offing, our hosts have some ideas on other zones they'd like to see updated. Personally, I'm rooting for the Exodar.
If you want even more background story, we also have a guide to every Warcraft book in chronological order (for those of you who prefer reading that way):https://blizzardwatch.com/warcraft-books/
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0:10
Hello and welcome to Lorewatch, a round
0:12
table free form discussion about your
0:14
favorite media. I am one of your hosts,
0:17
Joe Perez, and I've got my stalwart
0:19
companions with me on this weird stay at
0:22
the uh supposedly haunted asylum. Uh
0:25
you've gotten used to him now. He's our
0:27
our our resident third chair and I'm
0:29
glad he's here. Uh Eric Oday, how you
0:31
doing, Eric?
0:32
>> Yo, I'm I'm pretty good. Um I haven't
0:34
got a ton of time to play Midnight, but
0:36
I will say that I will do anything for
0:38
Luma. I would delete World of Warcraft
0:40
for Luma, the wiener dog. And I don't
0:42
say that about a lot of things.
0:44
>> And we happen to know who created that
0:46
that little tiny uh Daxund. Uh and then
0:49
joining us on this journey is our
0:51
resident skeptic. Uh, since Matt
0:53
couldn't be here, Liz was gracious
0:55
enough to step in. Uh, and we'll be the
0:57
foil on our wacky journey discussing
1:00
Warcraft lore. How you doing, Liz?
1:02
>> Hello. Uh, I would also do absolutely
1:05
anything for Luma. If you want me to
1:08
burn the world down, if there's a world
1:11
tree you want me to destroy, anything
1:13
for that dog, I'm sorry, but that's just
1:17
where that's just where we stand. I feel
1:19
like we just recently stopped that from
1:21
happening. So maybe not burn a world
1:22
tree down. Uh but friends,
1:25
>> but if if Luma asked me to if if Luma
1:30
gave you those puppy dog eyes,
1:33
I don't know. I don't know. It'd be a
1:35
really hard call.
1:37
>> That That's reasonable and fair. Uh but
1:40
friends, we're not going to be talking
1:41
about burning trees down. At least I
1:42
don't think so if I remember my topics
1:44
here correctly. Uh, instead we're going
1:46
to be answering questions from you, our
1:48
wonderful listeners. Uh, again, if you
1:50
have questions for this or any of our
1:52
podcasts, we ask that you go ahead and
1:53
send those in. You can send those into
1:55
podcastwatch.com.
1:57
Again, singularodcast.
1:59
Specify the show that it is for in the
2:01
subject line as well as any special
2:02
pronunciation of your name. If you don't
2:04
want to send us an email, you can go
2:06
ahead and hit us up on Discord. We have
2:07
two channels set aside. We have the Q
2:09
and Podcast questions channel, which is
2:11
open for everybody. Same rules apply.
2:13
And if you are a Patreon supporter, as a
2:15
way of saying thank you for helping us
2:17
keep the lights on, we have the patron Q
2:19
and podcast questions channel where we
2:21
tend to look there first as a way of
2:22
saying thank you. Uh first up, this is
2:26
from Scribbly. Scribbly sent in many
2:28
many questions over the years and we are
2:30
grateful for that. Uh and this one is
2:33
about the current zone Zulleon a little
2:35
bit. Uh mostly it says, "I'm currently
2:38
working through Zulon having a great
2:40
time. Thanks. and I've decided that I
2:42
would like to apply to be a Loa. How can
2:44
I start? What do I need to accomplish in
2:46
life or death or hellish outside the
2:49
balance limital space to become revered
2:51
by these lovely Ammani? Tips on the best
2:54
spirit animals to associate with,
2:56
quantity of foes to be had, etc. is much
2:59
appreciated. I'd like to avoid
3:01
confrontation with existing Loa, so I'll
3:03
need to occupy a virtue or space that is
3:05
not already taken. Seems like victory,
3:08
eagles, rats, and abundance are right
3:11
out. I'm good at leaving most places
3:14
worse than when I started and being a
3:16
murder veabond. Although, I just got my
3:19
own place, so there's less Vega bonding
3:22
involved these days and doing literally
3:24
any task that gives me uh that anyone
3:28
gives me probably, I'm guessing, for
3:30
decor here. I'm inserting this here. Uh
3:32
if you can help, I will keep it in mind
3:33
after my ascension. So, I got some
3:36
really good news for you. And we're
3:38
going to start with what the definition
3:39
of Aloa is. And the good NEWS IS WE
3:41
DON'T KNOW. Uh because it's super super
3:43
broad. Uh Loa essentially refers to
3:46
beings of sufficient power that are
3:49
worshiped by trolls. In general, it's a
3:51
troll word. Um in their language, it
3:55
essentially is the equivalent of a minor
3:57
deity, uh demigod, house god, whatever
4:00
you want to call it. um that can occupy
4:03
varying levels of power. And so like you
4:06
may have been familiar with Bum Somdi,
4:08
Razison, uh Moisala and other lowa like
4:11
that. Also something that people often
4:15
forget is that troll will refer to wisps
4:18
as loa like even tiny minor spiritual
4:21
entities like that are considered loa to
4:24
them. The spirits of ancestors etc. So,
4:27
it's a very broad spectrum and the power
4:31
of these entities is directly correlated
4:35
to the amount of worship. If you've ever
4:37
played the game Black and White, uh it's
4:40
very similar to that. Essentially, troll
4:43
trolls are the micro civilizations that
4:45
you want to feed offerings into your
4:47
coffers, uh, make sacrifices in your
4:50
name, wear your talismans, uh, and
4:53
generally just see you as a cool person
4:55
or entity in the cosmos. And by that
4:58
definition alone, you become a loa. The
5:01
more power that you have as a loa is
5:03
based off of how many followers you have
5:05
and the quality of your worship. Uh,
5:08
it's also why Loa can lose power.
5:12
So it's it's a very broad spectrum
5:15
indeed. Uh and in fact if you go through
5:17
the list of lowa uh there's been quite a
5:21
number that we know about and a lot more
5:23
that we probably don't. Uh such as Gahun
5:27
go the blood god which was made out of
5:30
old god matter that was essentially
5:32
electrified uh reanimator style until it
5:35
got up and started walking around again
5:36
by the titans uh titan watchers excuse
5:38
me. uh and then got improperly disposed
5:41
of because that's just a thing that
5:43
happens. Nobody taught the Titan
5:45
Watchers proper lab safety protocol is
5:47
really what it boils down to. Um Gahun
5:50
was technically worshiped as a loa by
5:52
the blood trolls. Uh there was also
5:54
another Lowaish
5:57
entity inside of that same raid when you
6:01
went and fought and I can't remember the
6:03
name of it off the top of my head now.
6:04
Uh but it was basically made up of
6:06
leftover pieces of old god and loa that
6:09
were also being experimented on uh by
6:13
the Titan watchers that then fused into
6:16
this insane
6:18
uh like chimera of old like old
6:22
goddi/loa goodness. Uh and then you had
6:26
to go put it down because again nobody
6:28
taught them proper safety protocol. They
6:29
didn't know how to put it down. But we
6:31
we know that it was constructed of loa
6:33
material. We just don't happen to know
6:35
which loas it was. One head s seemed to
6:39
be serpentine, the other seemed to be
6:41
aven and one seemed to be a lion. Um and
6:44
while it may be a reference to the old
6:46
chimera, it definitely was a little
6:49
weird, especially in a uh an expansion
6:53
that was followed up by here's where all
6:54
the things go that are spirits that then
6:56
get reborn into the world. I don't know
6:58
which three these were, but they didn't
6:59
go here. That's for sure. So, you could
7:02
pick whatever kind of thing you want and
7:05
just kind of do it. Uh, in a lot of
7:07
these cases, I these may have been
7:09
trolls that or or entities in life that
7:14
did something great to parttook in a
7:16
great battle or were beloved leaders or
7:19
beloved spiritual influencers, kept
7:22
their people safe and over time their
7:24
name became legend. And by becoming
7:27
legend, they were worshiped. And because
7:29
they were worshiped, they became Loa.
7:32
Uh, that's the broad strokes of it, so
7:35
to speak. Uh, and I'll I'll turn it over
7:38
to Eric if Eric has anything to add to
7:39
it, cuz I mean, Loa again is a really
7:42
broad topic.
7:42
>> Yeah, I would say that uh being a Loa is
7:45
a bit of a Nepo baby. If you're born
7:47
into it, great. You're you're there. If
7:49
you happen to be born a wild god, if
7:51
you're an extremely powerful entity from
7:53
the realms of life, you're you're pretty
7:55
much in. you can just roll up to some
7:57
trolls and they will just want to
7:59
worship you. Um but yeah, as we've seen
8:02
there there are people there are there
8:04
are entities that have become more
8:06
powerful become a lowa by you know
8:08
grinding it out. Um, if you want to find
8:12
a niche that you aren't competing
8:15
against other Loa who already
8:17
established, you can go really specific,
8:19
like you can be the Loa of hot beverages
8:21
and you can just dedicate your life to
8:22
that. And then maybe by the end of your
8:25
long lifespan, you will be revered by
8:28
your descendants to the point that they
8:30
will, you know, worship you a little bit
8:31
and you'll be able to be like a little
8:32
minor lowa. Sure, why not? I mean, if
8:35
you're Scribbly, if you're really good
8:37
at doing tasks anyone gives you for any
8:40
reward, um, that's
8:41
>> low of the gig economy.
8:43
>> Yeah. Being the Lowa of grinding it out
8:46
as my 143rd unsuccessful attempt at
8:48
Mimiron's head just this afternoon, that
8:50
would make me a follower of you if you
8:52
were the lowa of grinding it out because
8:54
there was a poss even the possibility of
8:56
a reward would mean that that that
8:58
that's something that a lot of people
9:00
have in common and would want something
9:01
to kind of focus on. They would need a
9:03
low of. Um, and my last point is that it
9:06
sounds pretty risky. I would say
9:09
you you want to take care of your old
9:11
LOA components and dispose of them
9:13
properly. You don't want that coming
9:15
back to future generations. You also
9:17
want to know what you're getting into
9:19
when you're being a Loa. Tribes of
9:21
trolls have a tendency to kidnap and
9:23
absorb the power from their Loa. Over
9:25
the last few centuries, many different
9:27
groups of trolls have kind of whether
9:29
they just have that idea, whether they
9:32
copy each other. Every couple years, we
9:35
hear of another group of trolls who hey,
9:37
why why aren't there low speaking to
9:38
them anymore? Well, they tried to kill
9:40
them and absorb their power. Um, you
9:42
know, same old. So, definitely read the
9:44
fine print before you get in. Yeah,
9:45
>> I have I have a question
9:48
about
9:49
>> particularly about Zulan. the quest in
9:52
Zullean, which
9:55
you have the Loa in Zulleman who have
9:57
been out of touch with the people for
10:00
precisely the reasons Eric has
10:02
mentioned. And but when they return,
10:07
they seem to be very powerful forces,
10:10
but by all accounts, or at least
10:13
depending on who you talk to, they have
10:15
not been worshiped in some time. The
10:16
people feel abandoned. Their leaders
10:19
certainly feel like they've been
10:20
abandoned. So if the amount of worship
10:24
is what makes you Aloa, how how does
10:27
this compute? Do they come forward and
10:30
then they become more powerful as they
10:34
demonstrate their power and thus fuel
10:37
more belief and worship in them? Or have
10:40
they just been subsisting like in hiding
10:45
from Zuljin and anyone who might have
10:47
been akin
10:50
with the same goals and are coming back
10:53
weaker but gaining in powers. So that
10:55
part kind of confuses me if we're going
10:57
by this logic.
10:58
>> Sure. And it's a really good question
11:00
Liz. Uh thank you for that. And and I
11:02
guess let's give a little uh framework
11:05
for it. So, as you're questing in
11:06
Zulaman, and mild spoilers if you have
11:09
not done this yet, come back in a couple
11:11
minutes. Um, but we retread the story of
11:14
Zuljin a little bit and the legacy that
11:16
Zuljin left behind.
11:18
>> And part of that is what Liz is
11:20
referencing here where you have uh like
11:22
Halazi and um I'm going to forget most
11:26
of the names. I apologize. Um, but
11:29
you're going to have like all these
11:31
different Hazi Jonalai.
11:33
um you're going to have uh Narlock uh
11:36
these these Loa that we've seen before
11:38
and we've seen their power used before
11:40
because essentially they would be able
11:43
to gift their power to champions. And
11:46
this is a time-honored tradition of Lowa
11:48
to many of the trolls and their
11:50
worshippers, especially in times of war
11:52
and conflict. They would grant their
11:53
powers to champions of the people that
11:56
worship them in order to sort of provide
11:58
for their people. It's sort of what it's
12:00
it's in your Lowa orientation packet of
12:02
things that you can do. But Zuljin
12:06
wanted to become the supreme champion of
12:09
all of the lowa of the the Ammani and
12:14
didn't want to go through the hassle of,
12:16
you know, actually putting in the work.
12:18
He didn't want to grind it out. Uh so
12:21
instead he used dark and twisted methods
12:24
to wrestle the power away from the four
12:28
uh Ammani worshiped Loa and shove them
12:31
into his own champions which is what we
12:35
come across when we go into uh Zulaman
12:39
uh and the various raids and like
12:41
actually go and beat these guys up. Uh
12:44
this is stolen power that they're using.
12:47
It's not actual power gifted to them by
12:49
the lowa. So these low have gone into
12:51
hiding. But the thing that the story uh
12:54
sort of like it it lays out in a
12:58
obuscated way and and it's it's very
13:01
easy to miss. Uh and it's especially
13:04
true when you look at like the Hanszi
13:06
and the Narlech portion of it. Narlech
13:09
is essentially hibernating. Uh he's in a
13:13
pocket dimension essentially but still
13:15
has worshippers. their stories of
13:17
Narlech are still being told. Um it's
13:20
not as powerful necessarily and if you
13:22
even see that when Narolch wakes up is
13:25
Narlech doesn't murder you outright. He
13:29
can't um he gives you a good fight and
13:32
shows you fractions of his power, but he
13:35
sells a speaker. He still has a high
13:36
priestess that that high priestess is
13:39
keeping the faith alive among even if
13:41
it's a small community, it's still a
13:43
community that worships it. It's the
13:45
same thing with Halazi. Halazi has an
13:48
entire tribe that has disappeared from
13:50
the Ammani wilderness, hiding in the
13:53
mists from the rest of the Ammani trolls
13:55
that continues to worship him. And that
13:59
whole thing about the mist was Hazi
14:01
using his power to protect his
14:04
worshippers and they still worship him.
14:07
He had more power than the others. Um,
14:10
you have John Alai. John Elai is a
14:12
dragon hawk and that is sort of the
14:15
symbol the overarching symbol of the
14:17
Ammani still being worshiped even if
14:20
it's not outright like sacrifices being
14:22
made to him and your journeys as you're
14:25
talking with the NPCs they even say
14:27
they've beseeched these Loa they keep
14:29
reaching out and the Loa do not respond
14:32
how do you reach out to a lowa how do
14:34
you reach out to a sufficient a
14:35
sufficient powerful entity you make
14:37
sacrifices you make worship you make the
14:40
prayers do whatever it is that your
14:43
agreement had. And so they never really
14:46
stopped worshiping them. It's just that
14:49
certain people felt that they would
14:51
never heed the call again. Uh and I
14:55
think that's really where that comes
14:56
into, right? And as soon as they come
14:59
back and the ones that were skeptical
15:00
before and were like, "Oh, they're never
15:02
going to answer our call." see them that
15:05
they've in their time of need they're
15:07
being called, you know, their the powers
15:09
there that they haven't been forsaken by
15:12
their gods, by their Lowa, by the the
15:14
ones that they had the compact with to
15:16
protect the the Zulaman areas. They are
15:20
immediately taking the knee. They're
15:22
immediately, you know, back to the old
15:24
ways, but the old ways never really
15:26
died. So, yes, they were diminished
15:30
potentially in power from where they
15:31
once were, but now they're coming back
15:35
and they're right back into the fray. I
15:37
think had Zalot taken the battlefield,
15:39
it would have been much different, but
15:42
she was just having minions essentially
15:43
down there. Powerful minions, powerful
15:45
entities of the void,
15:46
>> but not nearly as much as, you know, an
15:49
army of trolls. uh you know, a champion
15:52
that walks through death uh and you
15:55
know, can treat Loa as if they're just
15:56
like poker buddies essentially. Uh and
15:59
then you know, the power of these Loa
16:01
coming back and empowering the Ammani
16:03
people. It's still very powerful and
16:05
very active and and I found that part of
16:09
it fascinating because it really was a
16:10
story of, you know, the old ways don't
16:15
necessarily always die out. And in
16:17
particular, when you do like the the the
16:20
Dragon Hawk and the Phoenix, the whole
16:23
point of that is the ember still burns,
16:26
right? It didn't go out. The light the
16:28
light still there. It just needs to be
16:30
kindled.
16:31
>> And that's what that is essentially. And
16:33
it's sort of the glory of the the Ammani
16:35
people. I think I got everything there.
16:37
I'll turn it over if Eric's got anything
16:39
to add.
16:39
>> Yeah. The other thing that I was
16:41
thinking of is the time scale. We have
16:43
to remember that the Ammani have been
16:44
here worshiping these lowa for 10,000
16:47
16,000 years whatever the exact number
16:49
is. So a generation and a half of you
16:53
know a little bit of diminishment isn't
16:55
going to be that much in the grand
16:57
scheme of things.
16:58
>> Yeah. Did you have any other questions
17:00
about that Liz or anything else you'd
17:02
like clarification on as our resident
17:04
skeptic
17:05
>> here? I I think the real problem here is
17:08
in becoming a Loa is that the best Loa
17:10
has already been taken, which is Fileo,
17:12
the Cappy Barloa. So, what are you going
17:15
to do? How How do you get any better
17:19
than that? I I don't know.
17:21
>> And I I will throw in there the other
17:23
thing that we didn't really talk about,
17:24
too, is the mantle of uh that the Loa
17:27
can possibly wield. Um, which I'll talk
17:30
about real briefly before we move on
17:32
because I think it it does add here. Uh
17:35
in particularly we can talk about Rison
17:37
and Guam Samdi. Um Rison when he dies in
17:42
in Battle for Azeroth uh the whole setup
17:45
is that Vulgun is essentially going to
17:49
uh come into his power in Shadowlands.
17:52
It's going to be offered to Zuljin to
17:54
take the mantle, take what's left of
17:56
Rison's power and wield that mantle to
17:59
step in the lowa of kings role. Um so
18:04
like other things there can be a mantle
18:06
that a loa will wear and inhabit. Uh as
18:09
a matter of fact that was part of Bomb
18:10
Somdi's deal to empower uh the leaders
18:14
of the trolls and their fight against
18:17
everything that was happening was you
18:19
are going to worship me essentially as
18:21
the uh primary religion u even though
18:25
I'm not actually the god of death. I'm
18:27
essentially the god of bargaining. Um,
18:29
and then we are going to go and kill uh,
18:32
you know, Moisawa.
18:34
And then I become the the god like the
18:39
the Loa of the dead. um on top of the
18:42
guardian of the dead mantle that Bomb
18:44
Somdi already had, on top of the Loa of
18:46
Graves mantle, uh that Bam Somdi already
18:49
had uh and the current mantle of Loa of
18:51
Kings that he's wielding until Vulg gets
18:54
back on his uh now Lowa feat uh and
18:57
takes over that role, which I'm waiting
18:59
for that to happen any day now. Uh this
19:01
seems like a really good expansion,
19:03
Blizzard, to maybe have Vulgun make a
19:05
make a popup. Um but we
19:07
>> to see Vulgun again. We we dropped this
19:11
we kind of dropped this story thread and
19:12
I feel like he was a popular character
19:14
and he just kind of he had this sort of
19:16
blip as warchief and he's come and he's
19:18
gone and it's h I would agree it would
19:21
be nice to have him back especially now
19:22
that we're we're in Zulleman we could
19:25
have like some of the bridging of like
19:29
the dark spear are not exactly beloved
19:31
by the Xandelari uh they're not loved by
19:34
the traditional uh Armani trolls but we
19:37
could start seeing some of the repair
19:38
And I talked about this before, um, and
19:41
I feel like I'm talking about a lot, and
19:43
I'll I'll let you guys chime in. One of
19:45
the things that I thought was really
19:46
important about the end of the Dragon
19:48
Flight expansion was that the elves were
19:52
on their way to becoming whole again.
19:55
They weren't just a dispirit group that
19:57
had no common ground anymore. They have
20:00
Bellamth, and Bellamth with a world tree
20:04
is now a meeting place that all of the
20:06
elves are welcome to. You see dark
20:08
rangers, you see horde, alliance, blood
20:11
elves, uh you see every walk of life
20:15
welcome there or unlife as the case may
20:17
be. Uh but they're all welcome there.
20:20
The trolls don't have that. Not really.
20:24
The Xandelari Empire and the Amani
20:26
Empire have been at war with each other
20:28
for ages. you I mean it's one of those
20:31
things where could you not have a
20:34
meeting of uh the leadership at this
20:37
point have Queen Tanji sit down um with
20:41
and I'm going to forget her name here
20:42
help me out uh the leader of Zujan yeah
20:47
have have them sit down and forge a new
20:50
path forward hey our ancestors hated
20:53
each other we don't have to hate each
20:55
other
20:56
>> Zuljara Zuljara yeah Zulj is brother.
20:59
Yeah, we could we can be chill. We could
21:02
coexist. I'm on we're on the other side
21:04
of the world. You're over here. This is
21:07
fine. Let's open trade routes. Let's
21:10
talk about stories of our people. Do you
21:13
want me to teach you how to sail? Um,
21:15
which also is an interesting point
21:17
because if you look at uh Zulan, there's
21:19
a giant bridge that goes out into the
21:22
middle of nowhere that may be part of
21:24
the Path of Titans. Uh, may have been
21:26
something else. Who knows? Uh, the Troll
21:29
Empire once spanned the entire world.
21:31
So, who who knows how big it could and
21:34
I've rambled a lot. So, I'll turn it
21:35
over to you guys if there's any any
21:37
parting thoughts, Eric, or any uh
21:40
questions, Liz, that you want more
21:42
clarification? it. I could see a
21:45
gathering, a bringing together. Uh maybe
21:48
not as much as we've we've been promised
21:49
like, you know, the elves coming
21:51
together in Midnight, but it does seem
21:54
that we're getting more and more of that
21:55
as we go towards the end of the World
21:58
Soul saga as the beings of a Azeroth
22:01
kind of need to unite and get along and
22:03
stop having these factions and
22:05
everything. And then whatever happens
22:07
after that, maybe we won't just go back
22:10
to, oh, now these factions aren't
22:13
getting along again. Maybe we'll have
22:14
some other cosmic adventure to go on
22:16
where we won't be able to worry about
22:17
like what kind of troll you are and
22:20
whether you're welcome on the spaceship
22:22
or not. Who knows?
22:23
>> Yeah. All right. Well, I think that does
22:25
it for that question. Hopefully that
22:27
helps you on your journey into your
22:29
ascension. Please don't forget us. Maybe
22:31
you could become the patron Loa of
22:33
Blizzard watch. Um,
22:36
our next question. Oh, go ahead, Liz.
22:39
>> We could we could always use a patron
22:40
Loa of side quests, you know. That's
22:43
that's always a thing.
22:45
>> That's fair. I like that. Triply, you
22:47
are now the patrona of quest. It goes in
22:50
line with uh your I I do any task
22:53
literally anybody gives me. That's
22:54
perfect. Absolutely perfect. Great job,
22:57
Liz. I I have done some things that it's
23:00
like you go and you accept the quest and
23:01
it's like this does not sound like a
23:03
good thing that I should be doing, but
23:05
he's offering experience and a really
23:08
attractive set of shoulders. So, I guess
23:12
I'm doing it. It It just happens. It
23:14
happens.
23:16
>> All right. Our next question comes from
23:18
Nabatian. Uh having done the heraneer
23:21
part of the campaign, I have a question.
23:24
Rift of Alm and Alhara.
23:27
Amazingly slow buildup from the Rift of
23:29
Alm's first reference to this dramatic
23:31
revelation linking it to the
23:34
goddess/world soul or retcon deciding to
23:37
make an old throwaway name now mean
23:39
something major. This is part of the
23:40
question. Uh I may be showing my
23:42
ignorance and this is already known and
23:45
I also know that it could of course be
23:47
the writer's retconing all the time. But
23:49
did we ever know what all was first
23:51
referred to when we encountered Xavius
23:53
here? So the rift of al we or in general
23:58
when we were introduced to it by Xavius
23:59
was always referred to as sort of like
24:02
this nexus point this thin point between
24:05
the dream and reality. And Xavius is
24:09
very particular in this and very
24:12
particular in this choice. And when
24:14
we're encountering him, we're
24:16
encountering it from the dream side of
24:18
things where he's trying to sort of
24:20
break into reality from the dream
24:23
because, well, Xavius no longer really
24:25
exists. He's a concept, a memory, an
24:29
entity that no longer has a caporeal
24:30
form. Well, he can't serve his old god
24:33
masters or any of the destructive
24:35
entities or things that he would want to
24:37
do. Uh if he is, you know, just kind of
24:40
stuck doing nothing but, you know, being
24:44
a being a dream. Uh it never went
24:47
further than that, right? We understood
24:49
that there was this weird nexus point
24:51
that the the thin veil was important. Um
24:56
there was a reason the old gods were
24:57
targeting it. There is a reason why when
25:00
we did the Emerald Dream, everything
25:02
that it was so important to keep it
25:06
clean because those concepts like the
25:09
Ilgenoth could have potentially been
25:11
born into the real world. Matt and I
25:13
talked about this probably two years ago
25:16
at this point, maybe more, of Ilgenoth
25:20
being a being of pure thought, not
25:24
actually ever existing was it was not a
25:28
mistake that they were viewing
25:30
themselves as a world tree or that they
25:31
were taking on that form in that
25:33
encounter. A world tree is a very
25:35
powerful thing, a very well-connected
25:38
thing that spans not just reality but
25:43
all dimensions. And we know this because
25:45
if we go back and talk about Ganer, the
25:47
mother tree, it is essentially the wow
25:51
equivalent of the the Norse tree of of
25:55
everything all connected at every point
25:56
in time. Um it can exist in multiple
25:59
places. Well, if that tree in the dream
26:01
had become fully realized and a seed
26:04
planted in an approximate location, in
26:07
this case probably is somewhere in
26:09
Mulore, we we suspect, then Ilgenoth
26:12
would have potentially been born into
26:15
reality. That's kind of what Xavius was
26:18
going for. Now, what the Herander
26:20
campaign does is actually starts
26:21
breaking down a little bit, not quite um
26:26
what the Rift of Alm is, who Alhara is,
26:31
and sort of a little bit about that. The
26:34
thing here, and this is going to be the
26:36
controversial thing, I don't think
26:38
Almhara is the world soul. I don't think
26:42
it's Azeroth. I think it's more directly
26:44
related to the roots of Teldrasil
26:47
because that's the roots that we have
26:49
above us in Harendere, which I didn't
26:52
catch the first time I was doing the
26:54
questing, but I just finished the zone
26:57
for a second time, doing every single
27:00
quest, scouring every portion of the
27:02
zone, mostly because of this question.
27:04
So, thank you. um looking for every
27:06
hidden tablet, every hidden scroll,
27:08
every hidden book and everything seems
27:11
to reference to the song o of Alhara as
27:16
emanating from the tree and with
27:18
Teldrasil essentially being born from
27:21
the branches of uh Gene, the the mother
27:24
tree that connects everything and the
27:26
rift of being deeper in the ground,
27:29
closer essentially to the world soul.
27:31
Why when you get deeper to the world
27:33
soul in that wound in that that that
27:34
that that where the the veil is thin,
27:37
why do they stop hearing the song of
27:40
Almhara, you would expect that they
27:44
would hear more of it? And this starts
27:47
to beg the question, is the song that
27:51
was referenced in the war within that
27:53
everybody heard, is it actually the song
27:56
of the world soul or is the song of
27:59
something else? Because again the you
28:02
have the array guided by this light
28:04
guided by the song they can hear it uh
28:07
the earthn the same thing they can hear
28:10
the song magny was able to hear the song
28:13
but they're not as deep as we currently
28:16
are. They're not as deep as herander is.
28:19
So is it even the same thing or is this
28:22
the song crafted by in and again tinfoil
28:26
hat theory here and we've we've gone
28:28
over this a couple times. One of the
28:30
things that was referenced with world
28:31
trees in particular is that when they
28:34
are planted, their roots spread all
28:36
throughout the world, like they're not
28:38
just localized. They are entire vast
28:41
root systems that we are making a
28:44
speculation that covers the entirety of
28:47
Azeroth. And we've seen some evidence to
28:50
potentially support that. the tunnels
28:52
left behind inside of the war within
28:55
when we're in um I can't remember the
28:57
name of the the uh Narubian zone. I
29:00
apologize. It's been a long day. Um
29:04
>> thank you. Uh as we're in Ashkahat,
29:06
>> like the tunnels that are left behind,
29:08
don't they look like roots that were
29:10
ripped up? And when we're going into the
29:13
deeper section where the herander are
29:15
and they're investigating the black
29:16
blood, there's root systems there. It
29:18
looks like it's retreating away from
29:20
this this area. But the whole thing is
29:23
this is a network potentially of a
29:25
protective shell around the world soul
29:28
created by the world trees. But we also
29:31
know that these trees are living
29:32
entities at least in capacity of they
29:36
have some form of sentience granted to
29:39
them by uh Gene the mother tree. Gineir
29:43
was a cosmic entity, is a cosmic, and
29:46
these being her children or children of
29:49
her children, they're all
29:50
interconnected. They all have a will.
29:53
The night elves talk about this, the
29:54
druids talk about this. They've been
29:56
talking about this since Burning
29:58
Crusade. Um, like this is something that
30:01
is like a deep deep cut where the trees
30:03
are living entities. That's why like
30:05
when you go to Northrren and you see the
30:07
fallen world tree that the u sinites
30:10
bubbling up in the middle of and the uh
30:12
fearbar going absolutely insane in they
30:14
talk about feeling the death of that
30:17
tree that it's it's sort of death now
30:20
could be heard throughout the entirety
30:22
of the world and these are little
30:24
throwaway lines in quests and books that
30:28
you don't think about until you start
30:29
getting to places like this where it's
30:30
like oh no they they these are
30:32
absolutely connected and But if all the
30:34
trees are this colony and are singing
30:37
together, is it their song? Is that the
30:40
goddess that they're talking about? Is
30:42
Alm the spirit of Teldrasal that
30:45
>> burned? Is that why they stopped hearing
30:48
the song? Like all these different
30:51
layers to it, I think, is what makes it
30:55
very, very interesting, at least to me.
30:57
Um, but we still are unsure what Alhara
31:03
actually is. Is it the spirit of
31:06
Teldrasil, which is what my speculation
31:09
is? Is it something to do with the world
31:12
soul? Or is it an entirely different
31:14
cosmic entity that we have no real idea
31:17
of? So, that's my wild speculation and
31:21
some tidbits. Eric, what do you got for
31:24
us? I enjoy the speculation because I
31:26
also didn't immediately think, oh,
31:29
Alnara, that's just their name for
31:31
Azeroth, the world soul. And then I
31:34
haven't finished every single quest in
31:36
the zone. But, uh, you know, getting to
31:39
the area with the rift and the
31:41
nightmares coming out of it, it's that
31:43
seeing the the the
31:46
animations, the what creatures are
31:48
actually coming out of it. Some of them
31:49
we've seen before. It's like, okay, so
31:51
some of that makes sense. Um, but while
31:54
you were talking, I started to fold my
31:56
own tinfoil hat here because if if the
32:00
world soul was in this cradle wrapped in
32:04
the roots of a world tree, it sounds a
32:07
lot like something else that we know the
32:10
world soul has had happen to it, which
32:13
is that the Titans came upon Azeroth and
32:17
put their keepers and the keepers made
32:19
their earn and and other entities.
32:22
who built the coreway and constructed
32:24
the manifold around the world soul to
32:27
keep it safe and do whatever that sounds
32:29
a lot like throwing trees at the world
32:32
and having their roots go down and going
32:35
around the world soul to I don't know it
32:38
influence it or empower it or turn it to
32:41
life sounds a lot like throwing old gods
32:44
there to put their feelers in to
32:46
influence it. So,
32:48
I don't know. I I I've I've had this on
32:51
and off. You know, the different cosmic
32:53
powers are all vying for the world soul,
32:56
whatever it is, and for whatever reason.
32:58
>> And sometimes it makes more sense in my
33:00
head, and sometimes it makes less. But
33:02
finding out that there was a literal
33:04
bunch of roots
33:06
>> cradling around what was the world soul,
33:08
if that's what it is, that's very
33:10
interesting. I also I'm here for the
33:13
theory that we'll find out that Alnara
33:15
is completely something else because
33:16
they as far as I could tell don't
33:19
explicitly say that it is Azeroth that
33:21
no one says like oh yeah that's our word
33:23
for this when they're talking to
33:24
somebody in the quests. So I I really
33:28
and they do reference Azeroth as well
33:30
like they talk about Azeroth. So like
33:32
the the impression I get is that to the
33:34
the harender these are two very distinct
33:37
entities like Azeroth is not a
33:41
>> it's not a foreign term to them right
33:44
like
33:45
>> right
33:45
>> arena is not like you know oh you know
33:48
that's that's just our word like you
33:49
said she understands what Azeroth is and
33:52
that is not what she's referring to
33:53
Alhara at so it it's it's a fascinating
33:57
thing and I think we're going to get way
33:58
more as as this expansion goes on
34:01
because as the her and dear are more
34:03
involved in the goings of the rest of
34:07
the world I guess we'll say um their
34:11
worldview will sort of broaden and there
34:15
may be some connecting pieces that will
34:16
get filled in because you also have to
34:19
keep in mind that the heraneir are just
34:22
essentially coming out of isolation
34:25
right they were called they were called
34:27
to where they are they were called to
34:28
the home beneath the roots I personally
34:31
think that they were uh potentially an
34:33
offshoot of what night elves were. Like
34:36
night trolls that went deep underground
34:37
stayed underground because we know night
34:39
trolls were uh subterranean at some
34:41
point before they ventured to the
34:43
surface and settled, you know, where
34:45
they did and evolved into elves because
34:48
they're they're very much this halfway
34:50
point between trolls and elves. They're
34:54
almost like this missing evolutionary
34:56
step. Um they're massive like trolls.
34:59
Trolls are way bigger than elves, but
35:02
they have a lot of the elf facial
35:04
features. They have a lot of the elf
35:06
tendencies. The large ears are there as
35:08
well. Um, their connection to nature and
35:12
the way that they revere it is like a
35:15
perfect mix of the two. Like you would
35:17
sort like the the night elves and and uh
35:20
the trolls like we just talked about
35:22
their worship of Loa and how they view
35:24
nature. It's sort of like this perfect
35:25
melding of it. They almost slot in
35:27
perfectly as this like missing link
35:30
between the two, between those
35:31
evolutionary steps. And I really want
35:34
them to meet the last remaining night
35:38
troll in the back in Xandelar. I want
35:41
them to meet him and say like and just
35:44
see, oh yeah, no, we've we've got we've
35:48
got memory rocks that depict this like
35:52
from ages past.
35:55
Because that's the other thing which I
35:56
think is really neat too. They one of
35:59
the cool things about the area and I'm
36:00
sorry I'm going off on a random tangent
36:01
here, but the heron are just
36:02
fascinating. The way that they record
36:04
history is very much akin to how lore
36:07
walkers do it. Um, and very much
36:10
incorporates elements almost like the
36:12
Emerald Dreams Dream, right? When you go
36:16
and do those quests and you go and touch
36:19
sort of like the memory rocks, not only
36:21
are you activating the latent magic of
36:23
the paints that you're that are
36:25
depicting the things, you're overlaying
36:27
it into the world, you're seeing things
36:31
that happened that physically happened
36:34
like them hiding from a Titan watcher,
36:37
them hiding from Freya. Like that's a
36:40
massive indicator to me that they're a
36:44
divergent evolution that was never
36:46
intended, right? They're they're hiding
36:48
from Titan constructs. Uh they're very
36:52
much natural. They may actually have met
36:55
or talked with Aloon at some point
36:57
because Aloon is a very natureoriented
37:00
spirit. Um they may have talked with ANR
37:03
personally at one point. You never know.
37:07
uh because again Anrar wasn't as in line
37:10
with the rest of the Titans and really
37:12
was all about that wildlife and you know
37:15
their their relationship with Aloon
37:16
definitely led towards that as well. So
37:19
there's tons of different things here
37:20
that could potentially like really
37:24
really widen our view of where the
37:28
heroner slot into the world structure
37:31
and I think it's going to be really
37:33
interesting. Oh,
37:34
>> honestly it go
37:36
>> it it kind of made sense for me to the
37:38
for the heriner to be hiding from the
37:40
titans in Titan Constructs. I we have
37:43
seen how you know in dragon flight we
37:45
had a kind of big conflict between the
37:48
different dragons in that the titans
37:51
came in and offered quotation marks
37:53
their gifts and kind of enforced order
37:57
on some of the dragons. The Titans have
37:59
their sense of how the world around them
38:02
should be and they enforce that as the
38:05
right way things should be. And so you
38:09
can see if the heriner are here uh
38:12
dedicated to the wildlife of Azeroth,
38:14
dedicated to the world, that may clash
38:17
with some of the Titans goals. And I,
38:21
you know, it it feels like at some point
38:24
we're going to really uh really hit home
38:27
on this this conflict between the Titans
38:30
maybe not being a completely benevolent
38:33
entity like we've kind of pictured them
38:36
for many years of Warcraft's history.
38:39
And you know, the heriner did kind of
38:42
hide from everyone and everything. They
38:44
hid and they watched. But did did they
38:48
already know something that maybe not
38:51
everyone knew that the Titans aren't
38:52
always benevolent? Certainly if you're
38:55
in that quest about them about them
38:57
hiding. Uh you know if you if you mess
39:01
up the Titan constructs are going to
39:03
attack and kill you. So I, you know,
39:06
there's there's a truth in that that
39:08
does feel like it calls back to some of
39:11
the things we've seen in Dragon Flight
39:12
and some things that hopefully are story
39:15
threads we'll see something more from.
39:18
You know, we we had Riticron who was
39:21
there rejecting the Titans, rejecting
39:23
the Titans gifts, who's he's kind of in
39:26
the wind right now. And I I'm very
39:30
interested to see if that if that
39:32
essential conflict comes around in any
39:35
way. And you know, maybe the heroner are
39:38
going to play a part in this because
39:39
they they are not on the side of the
39:42
titans. They didn't reject their gifts
39:46
like the like the primal incarnates did,
39:49
but they certainly avoided any such
39:52
gifts or influence. So it could be
39:54
interesting. It could be interesting to
39:56
see what new tenfoil hats we can put on
39:59
from here.
40:00
>> Well, the what I want to know is we we
40:03
are been talking for a long time about,
40:05
you know, a lot of the story that we've
40:07
heard is the Titans version. What are
40:08
the Titans telling us? What is the
40:10
truth? What aren't the Titans telling
40:11
us? What are the Haroner telling us? We
40:13
just met them. They trust us a little,
40:16
but what is are those like the real most
40:19
important story rocks that they're
40:20
showing us how to like experience or is
40:23
that part of the story or are we going
40:26
to get more of it later when we they
40:28
really trust us? So, I I'm keeping that
40:30
in the back of my mind too.
40:32
>> Yeah,
40:32
>> let's get some more story rocks up in
40:34
here.
40:35
>> Yeah, I think we need more. But in
40:36
particular, we we have an interesting
40:38
opportunity as well, right? So
40:41
in the memories, the Titan watcher
40:45
there, the keeper that you are hiding
40:46
from is Freya. Freya is alive. Freya is
40:51
an Aldoir. We don't kill Freya. We can
40:54
go talk to Freya. Freya owes us one,
40:57
maybe more, but like Freya is not an
41:00
unknown quantity to us. And Freya is
41:04
extremely important in a lot of things.
41:08
Uh, formerly she was the Titanic Keeper
41:10
that was the protector of all life. That
41:12
was her domain. That was her her
41:14
purpose, right? Um, she fought against
41:17
the old god. She was empowered by Anrar.
41:20
She worked alongside Arcadus. Um, she's
41:23
the one that shoved Therzain, the
41:25
Stonemother, into the Rocky uh
41:26
dimension. She's also the one that
41:30
created the Emerald Dream supposedly
41:33
supposedly during the ordering of
41:35
Azeroth
41:36
and for whatever purpose that was or
41:39
either she opened a tunnel to it or the
41:42
Emerald Dream is a sub uh compact uh
41:45
dimension of the the nature realm which
41:48
we haven't really gone to. Um and a
41:50
combination of that and Azeroth's
41:52
dreaming world soul. She also planted
41:56
Geneir, the mother tree, a top a very
41:59
high peak inside of the emerald dream in
42:02
which, you know, new life flowed from it
42:05
in waves sweeping across the land. Uh,
42:07
Freya sculpted many pools of life in
42:09
other locations within the dream. But
42:11
Ganeer was the first, the tallest, and
42:13
the most radiant. For millennia, it
42:15
served as a source of healing and
42:17
balance that extended beyond the dream
42:18
and into the physical world, acting as a
42:21
guide for Azeroth's natural. I don't
42:23
think that's coincidental that the
42:26
heroner are tied up with protecting a
42:29
world tree summoned by a song to the
42:31
roots of the cradle and were hiding from
42:35
Freya. Now, if Freya was there to
42:37
eradicate them or reorder them, they may
42:40
have assumed as such, but that may not
42:42
be the case. She may have been on their
42:44
side or this could have been this could
42:47
have been after she got old god mind
42:49
like link and this could be something
42:50
that happened there. We don't know. So,
42:53
I I just I find this fascinating because
42:55
we again, we can literally go and just
42:59
be like, "Yo, what up? What happened? We
43:02
saw you hunting these beings. Why did
43:05
you do that? If you don't tell us, we'll
43:07
beat you up like we did the other
43:08
watchers because I can do that." Right?
43:11
Like, and I would be very shocked if we
43:13
don't because, and this ties in with uh
43:16
another question we're going to we're
43:17
going to do here in a minute.
43:18
>> We know we're going back to Northrit,
43:20
right? We know that that is on our
43:23
agenda. They're they're spending a lot
43:24
of time redoing Northrren. Um it's going
43:27
to get a modernization and a modernized
43:29
treatment. This is a perfect opportunity
43:31
to sit these Titan watchers down and be
43:33
like, "Your bosses kind of stink and uh
43:37
we're going to have a new party around
43:39
here and your choice is get on board or
43:41
you're fired, right?" Like we can go and
43:44
do that and we can go to to Fray and be
43:45
like, "Explain yourself." So hopefully
43:49
we'll get to do that. And to the part
43:52
we're asking if this is a reccon. No,
43:55
it's not a reccon because it was never
43:56
set in stone. And that's one of the
43:59
things that I know Liz absolutely loves
44:01
about Warcraft lore. Very few things are
44:04
are black and white. Very few things are
44:06
set in stone. And a lot of them are left
44:08
vague on purpose because again, not only
44:11
are they telling a story and creating a
44:13
world, it does also still have to fit a
44:15
game world. And so things may shift and
44:17
evolve over. So not a reccon, just a
44:21
further expanding of stuff that we
44:23
already knew about to a small degree.
44:25
Now getting more information dumped into
44:28
our brain. All right, hopefully that
44:29
answers your question and gives you a
44:31
little bit of random insight and maybe a
44:33
little bit of the tinfoil hating there.
44:35
Uh, this next one comes from Meron who
44:38
sent in quite a number of questions and
44:40
we were very grateful for it and it does
44:42
relate to this whole Northrun thing. In
44:43
Midnight, Eversong Woods advances
44:46
forward in time and is modernized. In
44:49
The Last Titan, Northrun will also move
44:50
forward in time and be updated. Looking
44:53
ahead, which zone or set of zones would
44:56
you like to see revisited with new
44:58
stories after a significant time skip?
45:01
And I've talked a lot, so I'm going to
45:02
let Eric take first crack at
45:03
>> I'm super excited to get back to
45:05
Northrren and so many of those places.
45:08
Um, I have to say that in the rest of
45:12
the world, if we're looking, you know,
45:14
past that, if we're looking for
45:17
expansion, you know, even past the World
45:20
Soul Saga, P expansion
45:22
13, 14, 15, some of the places that we
45:26
haven't seen much update on in a while
45:29
that like should have something. I think
45:32
we'll be headed back to um say
45:36
Encourage.
45:38
Maybe we'll get Sil Silith in the last
45:40
Titan to figure out what's going on with
45:42
the sword. The sword is still there.
45:44
What's going on with the sword? But it's
45:46
been decades since we really got into
45:48
Anarrage. We've seen other old gods
45:50
still have influence after we quote
45:53
vanquish them unquote. Um, is there
45:56
anything happening in there with the,
45:59
you know, different constructs that are
46:01
from different entities that have been
46:04
just kind of what sitting around since
46:06
Kathun was vanquished? Um, I'd like to
46:09
see like what's going on in Black Rockck
46:12
Mountain. We got to go a little bit in
46:13
some of the quests in Midnight and see
46:16
um what's going on with some of that
46:18
kind of stuff now, but like it's in in
46:20
more of a looking back and kind of
46:23
what's going on there.
46:24
uh recently. Um, and I had one other big
46:29
one that I'm trying to remember. Um,
46:31
obviously place the places that are
46:34
really relevant to the Titans will be
46:36
relevant soon like Angoro Crater.
46:38
>> Um, oh, I I just want to see Strangle
46:40
Thorn Veil. I spent so much time in
46:42
Strangle Thorn Veil when I was leveling.
46:45
I I spent a year in Strangle Thorn and
46:47
Veil because I just played World of
46:49
Warcraft back in 2005 like twice a month
46:52
and it was just like when when it I was
46:55
like, "Oh yeah, I still play that game.
46:56
I still want to Where am I in that game?
46:58
What zone am I in? Am I still in
46:59
Duskwood?" And then I'd be like I'd log
47:01
in. I'd be like, "Oh my god, yeah, I'm
47:02
in Strangleth Thorn Veil still. I'm on
47:05
level 44 and I still am just like I have
47:09
10 quests that I still have to do in
47:10
here." And so, you know, we've got
47:13
updates to a lot of these zones from
47:16
Cataclysm and some of them were bigger
47:18
than others, but you know, it's been so
47:20
many years like what kind of things, you
47:23
know, pulling in from all these
47:24
expansions with, you know, the dragon
47:26
flight coming back and the uh the dragon
47:29
flights getting their powers and and
47:31
like what does that mean? Where would
47:33
you see dragons in Eastern Kingdoms?
47:36
where would you see uh some of the
47:39
battle for uh the fourth war? Um you
47:43
know, places we barely heard about. So I
47:46
I I think I think it's all coming. If I
47:48
have to say honestly, I don't think that
47:49
there's a part where the World of
47:50
Warcraft can keep going for a game for
47:53
very long, leaving any part of the
47:55
original game untouched. So I'm excited
47:57
to get to it all.
47:58
>> For me, mine is a little more m I don't
48:00
want to say mundane, but I guess it is.
48:03
Um, Northrand and Northr getting
48:06
updated. Fantastic. I'm here for it. Uh,
48:08
give me a playable Tuscar. Anyway, um,
48:12
the thing that I actually want to see
48:14
happen in the world in advance is,
48:17
believe it or not, almost everything
48:20
from the Eastern Kingdoms in Calumdor
48:22
post Cataclysm. So, Cataclysm changed
48:26
the world pretty dramatically in a lot
48:28
of places and some not I will say
48:32
Calendar I think made out a little bit
48:33
better than some of the other places
48:35
unless you're want to talk about
48:36
Thousand Needles and the lake that that
48:38
became um but the wetlands lockadon Dun
48:42
Muro um Elwin Forest like all these
48:46
areas Westfall were just devastated
48:50
because of of what happened in Cataclysm
48:53
the world events that happened there.
48:55
Um, a lot of the other places like, you
48:58
know, the Blastlands, Duskwood, not so
49:00
much. They didn't really get touched,
49:02
but like Westfall has craters and has
49:04
these elemental torancets that are just
49:06
happening in the middle there that we
49:07
haven't dealt with. We have literal
49:10
legions of druids and shaman that
49:13
specialize in this. You can't tell me
49:15
none of them are going to go to Westfall
49:17
and L1 Force and be like, "Uh, let's
49:20
calm the spirits down and maybe make the
49:23
ground go, okay, we're better now." Um,
49:26
>> some of these places you go there, it's
49:27
like, "What did the cataclysm happen
49:28
yesterday? Let's program."
49:30
>> Uh, same thing with like Duna, Loan, and
49:33
the wetlands because of the the dam that
49:35
was there that got broken.
49:36
>> Yeah.
49:37
>> And and the devastation that had that
49:39
washed out entire villages and towns.
49:42
I'd like to see recovery efforts over
49:45
time. It's been literal decades in game
49:48
at this point where stuff could have
49:53
been progressing. And this is maybe my
49:56
my my only gripe with the game. And I
49:59
understand it's a game, it's an MMO,
50:02
this is going to happen, but it's the
50:04
the lack of the world moving forward in
50:07
all of these different zones.
50:10
We get it in some but not all. And it
50:13
feel makes the world feel less lived in.
50:16
And nothing highlights that more than
50:19
this expansion because when you go into
50:22
Everong Woods, when you look at Silver
50:26
Moon City and the the Sunwell Plateau
50:29
and you look at how all of that is, it
50:34
feels
50:35
phenomenal. It feels like an actual
50:39
livedin city. It feels like people who
50:42
pridefully over decades rebuilt what was
50:46
taken from that. And it just feels so
50:50
much more vibrant than pretty much any
50:53
other capital city or major city we have
50:56
ever been in. And I say this even
50:59
comparing to like to what we were just
51:02
in
51:03
>> right in the earthn main city. It feels
51:08
largeish, but it doesn't feel lived in.
51:11
And I I I don't know why. There's
51:13
apartments everywhere. There's like
51:16
catwalks and these these uh you know,
51:19
hot baths on rooftops. And it's a really
51:22
beautiful setup. It's a really beautiful
51:24
design, but everything you need is
51:27
contained in like a 5 square ft radius
51:30
of like the center point of the forge.
51:32
You don't have to go anywhere. You don't
51:34
see the NPCs walking around. In fact,
51:36
while there are NPCs walking around, it
51:38
feels less. Silver Moon, there's a dude
51:42
pulling a cart that you can hop on to
51:44
take you around the city. Like, they're
51:46
encouraging you to see this lavish area.
51:50
And there's these little touches like I
51:52
actually thought my game was broken at
51:54
one point and and and because I flew up
51:58
and and I whenever I log out a game and
51:59
I know I'm not the only one. I tend to
52:01
find these high out of the way places
52:04
and partially it's because that's what
52:06
my character would do and I can't break
52:08
that mindset and second is because when
52:11
I load into the game there's less assets
52:13
so I load faster. I found this like
52:15
hanging garden area and I'm sure we've
52:17
all found it and it had these all these
52:20
like throw cushions everywhere and like
52:22
teak pots and these drapes on the side
52:25
of the like the floating gazebo in the
52:27
sky. These like hedges all around it
52:30
encapsulating it. And when you go into
52:32
it, your sound's muted. Not everything,
52:35
but like go and open your bag, you don't
52:38
hear the rustling of your bag.
52:40
>> Cast a spell. You don't hear the spell
52:42
effects. It's or if you do, it's really
52:44
muted. And I occasionally play with or
52:48
particularly in raids after I've gone
52:50
through encounters once, I play with
52:52
sound off. I'm one of those people. It's
52:53
just how I am. But before that, and when
52:56
I'm in the world, I leave sound on. And
52:59
it freaked me out cuz I thought I had
53:00
disabled sound. And it took me and and
53:03
I'm not ashamed to admit this, probably
53:06
20 minutes to realize that it was where
53:08
I was standing that was causing it.
53:11
Because as soon as I went elsewhere,
53:13
sound came back. And then it dawned on
53:15
me that this little tucked out of the
53:17
way gazebo in the middle of like the sky
53:20
off to the corner away from the main
53:22
thoroughare of the city, it was an
53:24
intentional design choice. And little
53:27
tiny things like that just absolutely
53:31
impress me and make it feel lived in.
53:33
And I love that. I want to see more of
53:36
that. And I know it is a monumental ask.
53:38
I know that I'm being I'm being a
53:41
selfish gamer. I'm fine with this. I've
53:42
made peace with it.
53:44
>> But I'd love to see that treatment
53:46
elsewhere. I'd love to see them make use
53:48
of the spatial audio technology that
53:50
they're using inside of the game
53:52
currently that started with The War
53:54
Within. And if you had headphones on or
53:57
you have uh birectional speakers and not
53:59
just like a soundbar, listen to NPCs
54:02
talk and spin your character around.
54:03
They're using spatial audio by default.
54:05
Um, these are really cool touches that
54:08
just make the world feel lived in. Go
54:11
back to the old old lands. Make them
54:13
feel lived in. Make them feel like
54:15
people are rebuilding. Make them feel
54:17
like life is moving forward and not
54:20
stuck in Cataclysm. That's what I want.
54:23
And again, I know it's a big ask, but
54:26
I'd love to see even a little bit of
54:27
movement towards it because I think it
54:29
would be so cool and make the game feel
54:32
fresh in those areas again. So Liz, what
54:36
about you? Do you have an opinion on
54:38
this?
54:39
>> I mean, I I do agree with you in that we
54:41
have spent so much time destroying the
54:43
world that I really want to spend some
54:45
time rebuilding it, but when I think of
54:48
any one zone, I think of Lordon and the
54:51
Unders City because I think the undead
54:56
have a potentially really interesting
54:58
story that Blizzard has never
55:01
dug into very well. I mean, maybe in
55:03
bits and pieces. And uh the the novel
55:07
Before Battle for Azeroth, what was that
55:09
one?
55:09
>> Before the storm.
55:11
>> There you go. The name was right there.
55:12
Um you it starts out with this meeting
55:16
of undead and their former living
55:19
families. And kind of the essential
55:20
pathos of the undead is that they have
55:24
died and their former loved ones now
55:27
consider them monsters. their former
55:29
homes would throw them out, attack them,
55:32
kill them, and you have this
55:36
essential split between them. Do they
55:40
hang on to their old lives? Do they go
55:42
back and see
55:44
where they were? Do they try to reach
55:46
out to those loved ones? Do they try to
55:48
hold on to relationships? Are they
55:49
rejected? Because yes, they're rejected.
55:52
They're undead. They're seen as
55:56
scuttling monsters of the Lich King at
55:58
best. And they have now come into a
56:01
space where they're ruled by a council.
56:04
And you know, you've got Calia there who
56:07
is an undead but of a very different
56:10
sort. Is there a new future for the
56:13
undead? Is there a new future for the
56:15
undead combined with the living where
56:19
they are accepted as their own entities
56:21
and are not just these undead monsters?
56:24
Because the story has frequently painted
56:27
them as undead equals evil. And even
56:31
when it's like inched into giving them
56:34
some more subtle characterization, it
56:37
always falls back to kind of these big
56:40
trope stories. Okay, they're bad guys.
56:42
They're going to plague you all. They're
56:44
going to kill everyone because they're
56:46
undead. They have no they no longer have
56:48
human feelings maybe. And that's that's
56:52
just a rough story, especially to
56:53
players who play Undead, to players who
56:55
are interested in this race. And there's
56:58
a lot of depth you could go to. Of
57:01
course, uh the Unders City itself has
57:02
been kind of destroyed a second time.
57:05
We've cleaned it up a little, but what
57:07
does the future look like for them?
57:10
Yeah. What does the unders city look
57:12
like? Because they've kind of embraced
57:15
the wreck and ruin of the unders city.
57:17
But what happens when the foresaken
57:19
build? What happens when they see a
57:22
future beyond death? imagine imagine
57:26
walking into the city of Lordon and
57:28
going into the former throne room,
57:31
seeing the throne gone and replaced with
57:33
a a table set into the middle of the
57:36
room where the desolate council, the
57:37
ruling body of the forsaken have, you
57:40
know, they will govern in the light
57:42
instead of the uh the muck of the
57:44
sewers. Imagine a a city of Lordderon
57:49
where the former residents have rebuilt.
57:52
They have their trade out of the gutter
57:56
like you said. They they embraced the
57:58
sort of they embraced that desolation
58:00
really and they made it a core part of
58:02
their identity.
58:04
>> But now Kalia is back. Kalia who is a
58:07
direct bloodline descendant of their
58:10
lord,
58:11
>> right? Is a symbol of hope to their what
58:14
they have lost is among their number.
58:16
And yet she's not exactly forsaken, but
58:20
she's not so dissimilar and she doesn't
58:22
seek to rule. She seeks to make her
58:25
people whole. And what would that look
58:28
like if they actually started
58:29
functioning as, and I hate to say it
58:32
like this, and Forsaken players, please
58:34
forgive me, but dragging themselves out
58:37
of the darkness into the light to
58:39
present themselves on full display
58:40
without any of the shame that has
58:43
essentially plagued them from the very
58:46
moments they crawled out of the earth
58:48
to, you know, go forth and break free of
58:51
the Lich King's control and fight back
58:53
against him. like what does that look
58:56
like when they reclaim their place among
58:57
society which is the angle the
59:00
trajectory their story is taking like
59:04
you're absolutely right Liz that is a
59:06
fantastic call out I love it
59:08
>> I mean I've the one place they've told
59:11
this story pretty well in a couple
59:12
places one of them is I think with
59:14
Lilian Voss
59:16
>> which if you dig deep into her story if
59:18
you've done all of her quests
59:19
particularly I want to say in Battle for
59:21
Azeroth there was a lot of background
59:23
you got on her if did all request she
59:25
was in which
59:28
this kind of concept but the place where
59:31
this feeling has been catalyzed best is
59:33
somewhere that has nothing well not
59:36
directly the forsaken it's the death
59:37
knight starting experience where they
59:39
really nailed home that you have died
59:42
and been resurrected as a monster which
59:46
is the essential thing to the forsaken
59:48
as well except they don't have quite a
59:52
cause in the way the death knights do
59:54
the death knights have been brought back
59:55
and controlled the forsaken have been
59:57
brought back and there's kind of that
59:59
question is why how where do we go from
1:00:02
here but I really the death knight
1:00:05
starting experience is even today it's
1:00:08
some of the it's some of the really
1:00:10
great storytelling in woow and some
1:00:11
really great emotional storytelling in
1:00:14
WoW and it's because it goes to this key
1:00:18
problem with being undead which is you
1:00:22
are back and you or a monster and you
1:00:26
what's your relationship with the world
1:00:27
now? You know, when you get to the end
1:00:30
of the death knight starting starting
1:00:32
zone, you go into your capital city and
1:00:35
people insult you, people throw fruit at
1:00:38
you kind of thing. You have to walk all
1:00:40
the way through the city to the to the
1:00:43
faction leader and talk to them and say,
1:00:45
"Hey, I want my place in this world
1:00:48
back. I want to help." And even today,
1:00:51
if you take a death knight and you go
1:00:52
into Silver Moon, the guards are like,
1:00:55
"Where is your dark master?" And it's
1:00:57
like, uh, I mean, I think Bolvar is
1:01:01
still
1:01:02
an ice ground. I don't know. I don't
1:01:04
keep tabs on him. Uh, but that that
1:01:08
haunts, you know, a death knight player
1:01:10
and they nail it home from the very
1:01:12
beginning and they continue to do it
1:01:15
today. I think death knights have some
1:01:17
of the best storytelling in World of
1:01:19
Warcraft, but part of the death knight
1:01:21
story is the Forsaken story and they
1:01:24
have not really had as much of that as
1:01:28
they could. And it's because so often
1:01:30
when you start to feel like that pathos,
1:01:33
then they go back and paint them as
1:01:35
enemies. Particularly when you do before
1:01:38
the storm where you have this kind of
1:01:40
soft moment like can they reconnect with
1:01:43
their human friends? And then you have
1:01:46
Sylvanas. Sylvanas is the ultimate bad
1:01:48
guy now. And h it's just tough. I'd like
1:01:51
to see them get an expanded story and
1:01:56
just to see what's the next step here.
1:01:57
And they have been pushing that story a
1:01:59
little. I'd like to see more.
1:02:00
>> I've got goosebumps and I want to go
1:02:01
roll a new Forsaken character tonight.
1:02:06
>> Uh yeah. So I mean again, great call out
1:02:08
and great points, Liz. See, this is why
1:02:11
we brought you along.
1:02:14
But I think that's going to do it for us
1:02:16
today, friends. I do want to thank you
1:02:18
for joining us on this journey. I do
1:02:20
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thrive and grow. Blizzard watch
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supporters enjoy exclusive benefits like
1:02:34
early access to the podcast, a better
1:02:36
chance of having your question answered
1:02:37
on our podcast or the Q&A and ads free
1:02:39
site experience. I would also like to
1:02:41
remind you that you can send us
1:02:43
questions and I encourage you actively
1:02:45
to do so. You can send those into
1:02:47
podcastwatch.com.
1:02:50
Specify the show that it is for in the
1:02:52
subject line as well as any special
1:02:53
pronunciation of your name. You can also
1:02:55
hit us up on Discord. We have the Q and
1:02:57
podcast questions channel. Same rules
1:02:59
apply. And if you are a Patreon
1:03:01
subscriber, you can send us those
1:03:02
questions on the Patreon Q and podcast
1:03:03
questions channel. We tend to look there
1:03:06
first as a way of saying thank you for
1:03:07
helping us keep the lights on. And I
1:03:09
would also like to throw out there that
1:03:11
we have a book guide on our website and
1:03:14
I highly encourage you to go and look at
1:03:16
it, especially if you're interested in
1:03:17
some of the stories that we're talking
1:03:19
about here or some of the points that we
1:03:21
are referencing from way older books all
1:03:23
the way through. Uh the book guide can
1:03:25
be found at
1:03:26
blizzardwatch.com/warcraft-books.
1:03:30
Highly recommend going through and
1:03:31
checking it out. And also would like to
1:03:33
remind you that we are available on all
1:03:35
forms of social media. Um or most of
1:03:38
them. I don't even remember how many
1:03:39
there are right now. Uh but we are
1:03:41
Blizzard watch on Instagram, Facebook,
1:03:43
and uh Mastadon at gamepad.com.club.
1:03:47
Uh Blizzardwatch.com on Blue Sky,
1:03:49
Blizzard Podcast on YouTube,
1:03:52
Blizzard.watch watch on TikTok, which I
1:03:55
highly recommend because Liz and and and
1:03:57
Anna will generally pick the most
1:03:59
unhinged things that Matt, myself or
1:04:01
Eric or anybody talks about, and throw
1:04:03
it on there. Can't you Great. Uh but
1:04:06
follow there for latest news as well as
1:04:07
anything that's happening with the site.
1:04:09
>> Um we really want to see you there and
1:04:12
don't forget to to say, "Hey, you know,
1:04:13
we like you." But that folks, we'll see
1:04:16
you next week.