Up next in 10
If you could choose a high king for the Alliance, who would you choose? Because who... is the high king of the Alliance right now, anyway? That's the first question on the docket this week. Joe, Matt, and Eric also discussed the races they'd like to see again, or more in-depth. 'Member Yrel, you guys? Then, to close it out: as a massive, glowing font of power, was The Sunwell just always destined to be a portal, eventually?
We adore answering any and all questions you send in for us to tackle, and this week is no exception.
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0:10
Hello and welcome to Lore Watch, round
0:13
table free form discussion about lore in
0:14
your favorite media. I'm your host, Joe
0:16
Perez, one of several lore focused folks
0:18
from Blizzard Watch, and I've got two
0:20
marvelous co-hosts with me today. Uh,
0:23
you know him, you love him. Uh Matt
0:25
Ross. He joins me from the Aether to uh
0:28
materialize for this brief hour period
0:30
of time. How you doing today, Matt?
0:32
>> This isn't Diablo. We're not doing a
0:34
Diablo game. I'm not playing Diablo. I
0:36
don't know what's happening. Why am I
0:38
not playing Diablo? The expansion is
0:40
tomorrow, Joe.
0:41
>> Yes, as of the time of this recording,
0:43
uh we are one day out from the release
0:45
of the next expansion for Diablo I. And
0:48
uh some people are very excited. Uh and
0:50
then also doing some summoning here.
0:52
Maybe maybe some light heresy. We don't
0:55
know yet. Uh joining us is Eric Oday.
0:57
How you doing, Eric?
0:58
>> I'm okay Joe. I've had a open your great
1:00
vault on a Sunday night kind of week,
1:03
but um nothing to complain about too
1:06
much other than just being busy.
1:08
>> That's fair. Well, friends, we're going
1:10
to be doing some answering of your
1:12
questions. And if you do have questions
1:14
for this or any of our podcasts, I would
1:16
like to take this opportunity to remind
1:18
you to send those in. You can send them
1:20
into podcastwatch.com.
1:22
Specify the show that it is for in the
1:24
subject line as well as any special
1:27
pronunciation of your name. If you want
1:29
to hit us up on Discord, we have two
1:31
channels set aside. The Qin podcast
1:33
question channel is open for everybody.
1:35
Same rules apply. And if you are a
1:38
Patreon subscriber, as an extra way of
1:40
saying thank you for helping us keep the
1:41
lights on, we have the Patreon Q and
1:43
Podcast Questions channel where we tend
1:45
to look there first. Uh first one comes
1:48
from a good friend of ours who sends in
1:50
quite a number of questions to semi and
1:52
it is uh an interesting one. It's after
1:55
the March of Caldonas. Who's currently
1:58
king of the alliance if any? A simple
2:02
question with maybe a simple yet
2:04
complicated answer. The Alliance never
2:06
really had like a king of the Alliance
2:11
per se.
2:12
>> Now King Varian Ren was king of
2:14
Stormwind. He served as overall
2:17
commander of the alliance, but he was
2:19
that was a military thing. It wasn't a
2:21
rulership thing. He didn't he wasn't
2:23
king of anybody else. He was just a king
2:27
and he was running the show dayto-day.
2:29
>> Yeah. It was like a supreme commander
2:31
title, right?
2:32
>> Yeah.
2:32
>> Yeah. Essentially. Yeah. It was
2:35
>> no point did Yeah. At no point did
2:37
anybody think of Varian Ren as king of
2:41
say uh you know Teldrasil or king of
2:45
Iron Forge. Iron Forge had its own king.
2:47
Um so yeah, if anyone called him king of
2:49
the alliance, it was probably somebody
2:51
from the Horde or somebody who just
2:53
didn't know anything about the Alliance.
2:54
Yeah, there's uh there's a lot of of of
2:57
I've seen this a lot recently like
2:59
especially on lore Reddit and a bunch of
3:02
different places on the internet where a
3:04
lot of people have been referring to the
3:07
king of the alliance in in this case uh
3:11
replacing Vienn with Anduin Ren. Uh but
3:14
the truth is is Anduan Rein is just the
3:17
rightful high king of the alliance of of
3:20
not of the alliance of the of the human
3:21
did it man.
3:22
>> Yeah, I did. Well, I'm reading I'm
3:24
reading and doing two things. Uh he's
3:25
the high king of of the human like
3:28
Storwind Empire.
3:29
>> Stormwind,
3:29
>> right? Uh he doesn't necessarily have a
3:32
claim over Gen Greymane in his domain.
3:35
Um even though that is now another
3:36
leader, but regardless, uh he has no
3:39
claim over the uh Elven Lands. Uh I can
3:42
honestly say that if Anduin tried to
3:44
tell Tonda uh that, hey, by the way, I'm
3:47
in charge of you now, that would not go
3:49
well. Uh,
3:50
>> I mean after she stopped laughing and
3:52
looked at him and said, "Wait, you're
3:53
serious?"
3:54
>> Yeah. I I know she could barely handle
3:57
Varian being in charge and very, you
3:59
know, to her, Varian's also an was an
4:01
infant.
4:02
>> It's like, are you for real with this?
4:04
>> And then you have uh the Council of the
4:06
Three Hammers, which I mean, they
4:08
literally just sort of sorted their
4:10
stuff out. I don't think they're going
4:12
to be relinquishing control anytime soon
4:14
to a human uh you know let alone uh
4:18
somebody who positions himself as lord
4:20
of the alliance. Uh and even then that
4:23
said right now Andrew and Ren is not the
4:25
commander of the alliance at all
4:29
>> king he yeah he's king titular like he
4:32
that is his title he is king of
4:34
stormwind but he is not ruling even in
4:37
stormwind he's not been back to
4:38
Stormwind in a while now the guy is not
4:41
in charge
4:41
>> no and in faction is uh and has been
4:45
named lord commander of the alliance and
4:48
basically holds that position from
4:50
storman until the events of uh March of
4:52
Caldonas and and everything from this
4:54
expansion and the book prior. So, it's
4:58
it's interesting. It's always the
4:59
Alliance has always been a coalition in
5:01
the exact same way that the Horde has,
5:03
at least in terms of World of Warcraft,
5:06
right? So, the Horde when it first
5:09
showed up, they were it was the orcs,
5:12
right? That was really it. The trolls
5:15
got added later, the um the Torren got
5:18
added later. Yes, there was there was
5:20
elements of them in the uh when you
5:22
started going through the Warcraft uh 3
5:24
RTS story line, but as far as World of
5:27
Warcraft is concerned, the Horde itself
5:29
is also just a coalition and the
5:32
Alliance is no different. It has major
5:35
influence from those leaders. So like
5:36
you know uh Gen Gman or in this case now
5:38
Tessa Greyman I believe would probably
5:40
be one of the leaders that would be uh
5:42
there. Uh, Toronto Whispering, Jane
5:45
Proudmore, the three Council of the
5:46
Three Hammers, Velon. Um, you're
5:50
probably also looking at uh I guess I
5:53
guess the Pandaren contingent is still
5:56
present there even though they
5:58
technically don't have a like a leader
6:00
leader. They have the the one that was G
6:03
Firepaw's like kind of on again off
6:06
again mostly because he was on again and
6:08
she was off again but still
6:11
um she's I Kisa
6:13
>> I think
6:14
>> is it Ka? Yeah, it's like Kisa or Kaisa,
6:16
something like that. But like
6:18
>> but I mean she's she's more of an
6:19
unofficial, you know, I'm the one
6:21
everybody here. I'm the one all the
6:23
other pandering go. Are you going to
6:24
talk to him? Please talk to him. I don't
6:25
want you. You you do it. You're you're
6:27
good.
6:28
>> It's more that than she's the ruler of
6:30
anything. The void elves have
6:32
>> he's a cloud singer.
6:34
>> Uh the the void elves have magister
6:37
Umbrich.
6:38
>> Is it Umbre or Umbrell?
6:39
>> Um but actually technically is in charge
6:43
of them. Soia is technically the
6:45
>> magister
6:46
>> magister is the one who actually does
6:48
the job.
6:49
>> Um
6:50
>> which is true
6:50
>> because you know she's busy and I'm not
6:52
saying that to be sarcastic. I mean
6:54
she's constantly running around trying
6:55
to stop you know worldending problems
6:59
and and right now she's I mean we can we
7:02
do spoilers here?
7:04
>> I think we can give a little mild
7:05
spoiler warning here.
7:06
>> Yeah. Um right now isn't she both she
7:08
and Talion are missing right or are they
7:10
going to be in the next patch? We
7:12
>> I can't remember.
7:13
We kind of I'm trying to think how to
7:16
phrase it. It's kind of left ambiguous
7:18
for a reason. So, we'll go from we'll go
7:21
with that.
7:22
>> But regardless,
7:23
>> of their death have been greatly
7:24
exaggerated.
7:25
>> She's not around and and you know,
7:27
therefore she can't actually be in
7:29
charge just because it's not like they
7:31
can ask her what to do. Um so day-to-day
7:34
is right now is Umbre.
7:35
>> I mean Anduin's been pretty absent for
7:38
uh leading the last couple expansions
7:40
too.
7:41
>> But now Terellion, you know. Yeah, at
7:43
least Anduin is back, but Gen is sort of
7:45
holding on the fort in absence of
7:46
Talion. Um, but if we're going through
7:49
all the other leaders, we probably
7:50
shouldn't forget Galbin Mech, who, you
7:52
know, he is now high king of all gnomes
7:55
essentially is really
7:56
>> Yeah, including the Mechnomes.
7:58
>> Yeah.
7:58
>> Yeah. He's got the whole kitten
7:59
kaboodleoodle. If you if you're a gnome,
8:01
he's kind of your direct report.
8:04
>> And then, so to speak,
8:05
>> and then we have scale commander Azerell
8:07
uh representing the Draier uh as far as
8:10
the Alliance go. So like again these are
8:13
all they all sit sort of like on a
8:14
council of of shared leadership um with
8:17
terian
8:19
military force.
8:20
>> Oddly enough though it's a little less
8:21
formal than the
8:23
>> board actually has a council
8:26
>> like a straight up we are the council
8:28
you know everybody is here we've got our
8:30
own table and the alliance is just
8:32
whenever they all show up at a place
8:34
they just kind of talk for a while and
8:36
then they're like okay I think we're all
8:37
on the same page. Cool. Yeah, I'm gonna
8:40
go back to to mow it on my business and
8:42
you know, let me know if you need
8:43
something. Uh, which is kind of funny
8:45
because you talked about how both the
8:47
Horde and the Alliance are coalitions.
8:49
The Horde started as literally just a
8:50
Horde.
8:52
>> Yeah.
8:52
>> Like the leader was the biggest,
8:53
strongest one. They, you know, and that
8:55
was basically it. Uh, obviously there
8:58
was stuff in the background and stuff
8:59
underneath, you know, um, shadow council
9:02
and all that, but the Horde was just a
9:05
bunch of orcs. And then as they met
9:07
people who weren't orcs, they're like,
9:09
"What do we do? I guess we just make
9:12
them part of the horde. Okay, but now we
9:16
can't just tell them what to do, right?"
9:17
No, no, we'll talk to their leader. All
9:19
right. And it just kind of evolved into
9:22
that. And now after the the fall of
9:25
Sylvanas as warchief, they decided, you
9:28
know, we need this all codified. So, we
9:29
got ourselves a table and we've got
9:31
ourselves people standing around the
9:33
table and we all have a vo a voice and a
9:35
vote and yeah, we're going to try this
9:38
this whole election thing which also
9:40
which also feeds into some of the events
9:41
that happen in like the the march on
9:43
philos uh a whole that whole leadup
9:46
because again like you said the horde uh
9:49
and the alliance the horde is a little
9:51
more uh formal about it and I think they
9:54
have to be because of how they they sort
9:56
of were born where the alliance was
9:58
always just I don't want to refer to
10:00
them as a rag tag collection of of uh
10:03
races allied together, but they kind of
10:05
are, right? They kind of they have some
10:08
>> I agree completely. I think Eric, you
10:10
you're you're with you with this on
10:11
this, right?
10:11
>> They they they have like different
10:13
origins because the horde is like a
10:15
rolling avalanche that just picks stuff
10:17
up as it goes. It's like, "Hey, who are
10:19
you? You hate elves and want to kill
10:21
their city? I hate elves and want to
10:23
kill their city. You want to kill a city
10:24
of elves with me?" And the alliance was
10:27
like kind of originated from like
10:29
peaceful kingdoms that were scattered
10:31
and trading with each other and then you
10:34
know all of a sudden there was orcs in
10:36
the woods and they had to band together
10:37
and figure it out. So like yeah
10:38
>> and then they started having to make
10:39
friends with people who were never even
10:41
part of that original group. So now it's
10:43
like okay what's your deal? I am an
10:46
ancient immortal elf live on a magic
10:48
tree. Oh okay. You do you want us to
10:52
stop the burning legion with us? Yes.
10:54
Yeah. Okay,
10:55
>> you got green dudes falling out of the
10:57
sky, too. All right, let's team up.
10:58
>> Yeah. And then the horde is more like a
11:00
collection of of the discarded folks at
11:03
this point, too. Cuz like even going
11:04
through like the races of the Horde
11:06
>> um and looking who their leaders are
11:08
>> when blood elves show up. Yeah. When
11:09
blood elves show up, it's it's kind of
11:11
hilarious. That is the pivotal moment
11:13
where the Horde changed fully.
11:14
>> I would agree.
11:15
>> Like it started with the Forsaken cuz
11:17
nobody wanted the Forsaken and Thor was
11:19
like, "Well, they're there and we could
11:21
use a hold. We could use a somebody on
11:23
that continent." So yeah, all right,
11:25
they can join. And then the blood elves
11:27
join and they get in cuz the forsaken
11:29
vouch for them, which is
11:31
>> Yeah.
11:32
>> Can you imagine that now?
11:33
>> The dark the dark spear were technically
11:34
a discarded tribe of trolls that joined
11:36
up. Um the goblins are now under Glo,
11:39
but even then they were they weren't all
11:42
goblins, right? It was a it was a
11:44
specific group of goblins that decided
11:46
to join up with it. Uh G Firepaw and the
11:49
Pandaran that sided with the horde, same
11:51
thing. They were sort of discarded. uh
11:53
felissa were was the remnants of the
11:56
nightorn that had survived the legion
11:58
occupation uh and then were rejected by
12:02
the alliance essentially uh and so were
12:05
welcomed with open arms into the the you
12:07
know conglomeration of the horde the
12:10
high mountain the torren that were lost
12:12
to time essentially uh and had been
12:15
isolated as well for you know 10,000
12:17
years uh were not exactly welcomed with
12:21
uh uh open arms to the Alliance because
12:24
they're torn. Uh, and you know, we're
12:26
still in the middle of uh, you know,
12:28
racial tension as far as the Horde
12:30
versus Alliance goes or faction tension.
12:33
So, they wind up joining in with their
12:34
torn brethren. Uh, Grea with the uh,
12:38
Maggar orcs, they're literally refugees
12:42
from a dying dimension. Uh, Tanji is,
12:45
you know, with her her trolls are while
12:49
they were an empire and are an empire on
12:52
par with the culturans,
12:54
um, they're not exactly fully integrated
12:57
with the whole of troll society anymore.
13:01
They kind of stand on their own and are
13:03
still trying to figure their place in a
13:04
way. It's it's weirdly similar to like
13:07
the idea of if imagine you had the Roman
13:10
Empire
13:11
fall apart into squabbbling nations and
13:14
like it did in history, but the actual
13:17
city of Rome still had one of the
13:19
biggest navies in the world.
13:21
>> Mhm.
13:21
>> And you're like, "What?" Yeah. No, they
13:23
still do. And they still kind of live
13:26
like Romans, which means that all the
13:27
other trolls are like, "You guys serious
13:29
with this? or you doing an oldtimey
13:32
retros No, no, this is actually how you
13:34
are. Oh, okay. That's messed up. You
13:36
know, it it's one of the things I kind
13:38
of got from Battle for Azeroth that
13:40
always kind of excited me was the way
13:42
you've like when you go to uh Oh, Blake,
13:46
I can't remember the name of their city.
13:48
The one that's right there on Zendelar
13:49
Island.
13:49
>> Uh Zelda.
13:51
>> Zelda. Thank you. I could not remember
13:52
that. uh when you go there and you run
13:54
into the dark troll and there's just
13:56
this one dark troll hanging out. They
13:58
almost almost like even the Xandelar
14:02
consider them like a relic and you just
14:05
you get the weight of this city has been
14:07
under continuous occupation longer than
14:09
any other place on Azeroth at this
14:11
point. No, none of the other mortal
14:14
races on Azeroth have been in one spot
14:17
as long as the Xandelar trolls have.
14:20
Like before the catac the original uh
14:22
Sundering, before all of it, they had
14:25
that city and they still do. So that
14:27
that's that's an interesting thing about
14:29
the Xandelar. They're not they're not
14:31
outcasts in the world, but they are
14:34
outcasts of time. Like they they're a
14:36
different world. They they come from a
14:38
place that's vastly different and
14:40
they're only now finally recognizing
14:43
that they cannot just go with their own
14:45
anymore. It it's not possible. The world
14:47
is too fractured and they need they need
14:50
allies. So, and and you know, Tanji is
14:54
actually a really good example for that.
14:55
And I kind of admit um Bonami has has
14:58
grown on me. I really was annoyed by him
15:01
the first year, but everything they did
15:03
with him after Battle for Azeroth and
15:05
even the first part in Battle of Azeroth
15:07
turned out to be cool and interesting to
15:09
me. Um, I really liked what they did
15:11
with him in Shadowlands. So, yeah, I
15:14
think overall that was a really good
15:16
inclusion to the whole
15:17
>> Yeah. And then you have the the Vulper
15:18
who, you know, again were subjugated for
15:22
how long in Battle for Azeroth as we
15:25
find them. uh they wind up joining up
15:27
with the Horde because the Horde's like,
15:28
"Yeah, pretty much all of us here have
15:30
gone through that at some point or
15:31
another. Want to join us?" Uh and then,
15:34
you know, get a seat on the council
15:35
later when they were reminded of, "Oh,
15:37
yeah, they probably have more knowledge
15:39
about how, you know, trade works than we
15:42
do. We should probably be listening to
15:44
them. That sounds um so
15:46
>> yeah, as opposed to the goblin method of
15:48
trading, which is definitely
15:49
scattershot."
15:51
>> Yep. So, I mean, it it's it's an
15:53
interesting thing. And again, and even
15:55
though my my verbal slip earlier, um
15:59
there is no king of the alliance. There
16:02
is generally just somebody that they put
16:04
in charge of the military forces and
16:06
it's a loose group of of folks that are
16:10
politically, socially or survivalesque
16:13
aligned in the moment. And again going
16:15
back to what we see that here when you
16:18
go for the march on Quel and Oas and you
16:21
go to the saving of silver moon and the
16:23
saving of the Sunwell, it's the elves
16:26
that show up. Yeah, the army of light
16:28
showed up first. That's cuz they got
16:30
teleported in. And part of the whole
16:33
story beat there is that, you know, Aer
16:37
goes, we don't need an army of the
16:39
light. We need an army of elves. We need
16:42
people who understand what it's like to
16:45
go through this and have fought this
16:47
before because when you think about it,
16:50
every single faction of elves,
16:54
regardless of hoard or alliance, lived
16:56
through it. Whether it was the
16:57
corrupting of the uh the Well of
16:59
Eternity and uh the Legion being, you
17:02
know, occupying their city, the Legion
17:04
then occupying the Nightbor city, uh all
17:08
the survival there, reclaiming the world
17:10
trees, uh the feeling of an outcast and
17:13
having to fight your way back, uh like
17:16
the Silver Covenant, there there's all
17:18
these groups of elves that basically
17:20
have lived through this and have various
17:21
bits of experience that are useful. And
17:24
it's not the alliance that they go to.
17:25
It's not the horde that they go to. They
17:27
go to the individuals. And that's
17:29
because again, while these are
17:31
overarching bodies, they themselves are
17:35
not they they're comprised of
17:38
individuals that have their own needs
17:40
and wants because at the end,
17:42
>> well, we saw that we saw that in Battle
17:45
for Azeroth with Tonda.
17:46
>> Yeah.
17:47
>> Where they were trying to tell her, you
17:49
know, don't don't go, you know, rushing
17:52
into combat now. You know, you've just
17:54
got your city destroyed. you need to.
17:56
And she's like, you don't tell me what
17:58
to do.
17:58
>> Yeah.
17:59
>> I I am not your servant. I am not your
18:03
subordinate. I am queen of my people. I
18:07
am their ruler. I say we go now. She's
18:10
she is effectively their queen.
18:11
>> Yeah.
18:12
>> There's there's no arguing that.
18:14
>> She will never call herself queen
18:15
because of the the sully nature of it
18:19
with
18:20
Yeah. But effectively that is her job
18:24
and she straight up says,"I rule my
18:26
people. I do not need your permission to
18:28
do anything." And she went and did it. I
18:31
think that's a that's a good like it's a
18:33
good way to think about it when we see
18:35
in in uh Twilight in Midnight because in
18:40
Midnight all the elves do it.
18:42
>> Yeah.
18:43
>> They show that they've all all elves
18:45
have always understood this that you
18:46
know, yes, I'm I'm an ally to you in
18:49
this group we're in. That does not mean
18:51
that I will let you tell me what to do.
18:54
That means I will tell you what I want
18:56
us to do.
18:58
>> And I think it's really kind of
18:59
interesting to see, especially with some
19:01
of the people who show up here, like the
19:03
void elves. Uh it's definitely a case of
19:06
the blood elves are like it's you see
19:08
them. You I love the Ramath interactions
19:10
with Umbre because Ramoth is practically
19:12
grunting with the effort of being nice
19:14
to him. And Umbrich just loves it.
19:16
Umbrich is just dying. He loves it so
19:19
much. It's everybody's favorite part is
19:21
just the h like you're here. I get that
19:24
you're here. Fine. You can have your
19:26
books back. I get that you're here to
19:28
help me. I don't like it.
19:30
>> I Or the moment of in terms Oh, he left
19:32
me a personal message. How sweet. Like
19:38
just the the way Umbri is so sunny about
19:40
it every time. He's just so like he
19:44
knows this is killing Ramath and he
19:47
loves it so much. But at the same time,
19:50
he's serious about helping.
19:52
>> Yeah.
19:53
>> He's not kidding. He's not he's not
19:54
there to
19:55
>> Yeah, you're right. You like he's not
19:56
there to to mess around. He's there to
19:58
help, right? And he's earnest in that is
20:00
I mean that's that's where you're going
20:02
with it. But I mean even then
20:04
>> I think that's why it's tolerable.
20:06
>> Yeah. That's why to a degree it's even
20:08
why Ramth himself is is tolerating it
20:10
because he knows if they wanted to they
20:12
could be making trouble. It's clear that
20:14
they don't want to.
20:17
>> So sure I'll grumble but I am going to
20:19
accept the help.
20:20
>> But it's the same thing with the the Sun
20:22
Reavers right when you're when you're
20:24
looking at um Ath Sun Reaver um and his
20:27
interaction with um uh Windrunner. Why
20:30
can't I think of her first name?
20:31
>> Verissa.
20:32
>> Verissa uh leader of the Silver
20:34
Covenant. And it's like it's this this
20:36
interaction of I I hate you for what
20:39
you've done. I'm never going to forgive
20:40
you, but I know you're here to help and
20:43
begrudgingly I will accept your help.
20:46
Also, I'm being told by my boss that I
20:48
have to um
20:50
>> document that they sign the request
20:52
where you have them and it's like we
20:54
both acknowledge we hate each other and
20:56
don't forgive each other and don't like
20:58
each other, but uh fine, we'll get along
21:01
for now.
21:02
>> Yeah. signed each of us.
21:04
>> But that highlights again because if it
21:06
was Horde versus Alliance, if it was
21:09
these overarching bodies, that wouldn't
21:11
happen. Again, all of this is happening
21:13
because the elves, these individual
21:15
groups, these these factions that are,
21:18
you know, racial factions inside of each
21:20
of these larger groups have decided that
21:23
that's the way it's going to be. and
21:24
they took care of this before like
21:26
before any of the other major uh
21:29
factions decided to really show up in
21:31
force despite the the friends of the
21:34
light cuz we'll call them that cuz
21:36
Anduin and and Fyron and uh Velin and
21:40
Tyrion uh why can't I remember her name?
21:43
Talia Foring.
21:44
>> Yes.
21:45
>> Yeah. Um they all show up because
21:47
they're like, "Yeah, we got a summon. We
21:49
happen to be there and we're here to
21:51
help. Uh, we're all light aligned
21:54
because people forget that foring is
21:55
also a paladin. She's she's pretty bald.
21:58
>> Is it Yeah. Is it Talia or Mara? Mara's
22:01
his mother. Sorry. Bolvar's mother is
22:04
Mara. I always get them.
22:06
>> That's okay. But I mean like but again
22:08
they're there not as representatives of
22:10
their factions. They're there as
22:12
individuals
22:14
aiding in what's going on. And I that I
22:16
think that's one of the most I think
22:18
that's an underrated element of this
22:20
expansion and something that I think is
22:21
really good and something I think we've
22:23
been asking for for a while. I know
22:24
we're kind of going off in left field in
22:25
your question here, but this all kind of
22:27
>> Did you not expect it, Tatsami? Come on.
22:30
But it's it's that idea that these are
22:34
individuals that make up these groups
22:37
and they all have their own identity and
22:39
it sort of reinforces that and it
22:40
reinforces that in a way that I think is
22:42
is really subtle and that's good because
22:47
they don't beat you over the head with
22:48
it.
22:48
>> I I do want to throw something in here
22:49
that you just reminded me of that I
22:51
think also kind of goes back to his
22:52
question. I think part of the question
22:54
he was asking is is you know what is
22:57
Anduin's situation now? What is Anduin?
22:59
to the I think
23:01
>> and specifically the um the abdicating
23:03
he was talking about in
23:05
>> he talked about it but he says he says
23:07
to Velin and we'll just tell you right
23:08
now he him and Velon have a chat uh in
23:10
midnight. It's actually it's a fun
23:12
little
23:12
>> it's a great chat.
23:13
>> Yeah.
23:13
>> Same with Alonzo Fowl. You know it's a
23:15
that that like my dad doesn't give me
23:17
this chat. My dad's not here to give me
23:18
this chat. So I'm going to go ahead and
23:20
get this chat from you know the next
23:22
best fatherly figure I have.
23:24
>> Yeah. And the the interesting thing
23:27
about Anduin's place right now is that
23:29
he is much more effective than he was as
23:33
king.
23:34
>> Yes.
23:34
>> Because as king he has constrained by
23:37
the role of being king of Stormwind. His
23:40
thoughts had to be for his people and
23:43
then his his ethics and his morals. Now
23:46
he can just do what he thinks is right.
23:48
And that's why he's so torn because he
23:51
isn't sure it's right to abdicate. He
23:54
isn't sure it's right to not be king,
23:56
but at the same time, he knows he gets
23:58
more of what he believes is the right
24:01
thing to do. And he's making his own
24:03
decisions on it. He's not asking the
24:05
light what's right. He's making his own
24:06
decisions, but he is listening to the to
24:09
the light. He now has a relationship
24:11
with it where it is it is something he
24:14
can turn to for guidance and support,
24:16
but it isn't something he lets drive
24:17
him. He is in charge of his own destiny,
24:20
which is where his problem is. because
24:22
if he's in charge of his own destiny,
24:24
then he has to decide what it is. Um,
24:26
and I think we see this going back to
24:29
the beginning of um, the war within when
24:32
he first starts hearing the light again
24:34
and then he goes and he meets up with
24:36
with Farah and Lothar and she explains
24:38
to him what what Lo what you know
24:40
honestly if if I were villain I'd be a
24:42
little annoyed because he was trying to
24:44
tell the kid this repeatedly and he just
24:46
wasn't listening until she oh the pretty
24:48
girl shows up then you listen you listen
24:52
to the pretty girl okay the pretty girl
24:54
with the massive shield and kicks Total
24:56
butt. I get that part. But I was telling
24:59
you this the whole time. The light you
25:01
you don't it it doesn't run you. I mean
25:03
I I you saw me say that to to Illan even
25:06
and you just ignored me, man. You just
25:08
ignored me. But regardless, that's the
25:10
thing with And he he's finally in a
25:12
position where he is making his own
25:13
decisions, which makes him very
25:15
effective in the role of guy who shows
25:17
up to help, but also makes him like the
25:20
worst king ever. He's just not the worst
25:22
king. The worst king would be somebody
25:23
who's like an actual tyrant. He's just
25:25
absentee. And he even says that he he
25:28
just he should have abdicated for
25:29
Terallion. You know, Talion was there.
25:31
Terion was ruling. I should have just
25:33
stepped down and let Terallion be king.
25:35
Um, and I don't think that that's true.
25:37
Uh, but he does say it. I I don't know.
25:39
You guys think that that was something
25:41
he should have done? I don't let Terian
25:43
>> It seems kind of like they've been doing
25:44
okay. I mean, I do think that there's
25:46
some business that formerly needs a
25:48
king. Like there's got to be a noble
25:50
sitting in Stormwind with some kind of
25:52
paperwork that needs only the official
25:55
king. And they've been waiting for
25:56
Anduin to come back for like whatever
25:58
it's been 6 years and they're like, I
26:00
just need this permit signed so I can
26:02
put like a garden out back or something.
26:05
But um
26:07
yeah, I I don't know. You kind of like
26:10
want a king who's been through some of
26:12
this stuff and hasn't been thrust into
26:13
it too young. Um but at this point if he
26:16
doesn't want it then it's like oh well I
26:18
wish you would have told us that a while
26:20
ago.
26:20
>> Yeah. So with that in mind I think the
26:23
question then becomes what happens next
26:25
for Stormwind and I don't think we're
26:28
going to know for a while. I think in
26:31
place of Trion not being there to lead
26:33
the Alliance forces should another major
26:36
conflict break out that requires the
26:38
marshalling of it. Um, I think that you
26:41
are more likely to see a older, wiser,
26:45
calmer Gen Greymane step up. Uh, perhaps
26:49
uh otherwise you're going to see, in my
26:52
opinion, Teronda is going to run that
26:54
show. Um, and then
26:57
>> I think you agree the Tonda would be the
26:59
best person for it in this specific
27:01
instance.
27:01
>> I would agree. Um, and then in terms of
27:04
who takes over in Stormwind, they're
27:07
figuring that out. At one point in time,
27:09
there was a council of nobles
27:11
essentially that helped run the
27:14
day-to-day uh situation of Stormwind,
27:17
which is how we wind up getting the
27:19
Defas Brotherhood, which is why Anduin's
27:21
mother is dead. Uh it's what caused a
27:24
whole bunch of turmoil. So, I think
27:25
they're really reticent to to go back to
27:27
that. Um but I think they could look at
27:31
and and here's the wild one. they could
27:33
look to the horde and see how things
27:36
like the desolate council are managing
27:39
their people, how the horde itself is,
27:42
you know, trying to make decisions based
27:44
off of elected officials essentially.
27:47
Um, and I could see maybe instead of
27:51
being purely a monarchy that Stormwind
27:54
does start to evolve into more of a
27:56
parliamentary role where people are
27:59
elected as representatives of their, you
28:02
know, general needs. So, you have the
28:03
farmers that, you know, elect somebody
28:06
to be their their representative and
28:08
mouthpiece to, you know, help steer
28:10
policy regarding it. have uh the city,
28:13
you know, the people that tend to the
28:14
city or or whatever is necessary there,
28:17
like the infrastructure, they raise
28:19
somebody up. I could see something like
28:20
that potentially happening and then
28:22
Anduin is free to still be king and it
28:26
doesn't necessarily have that much
28:28
weight still on him and there will be
28:30
things that he'll still have to do, but
28:32
the city will still run without him. The
28:35
Stormwind Kingdom will still operate
28:38
without him. And I think that would one
28:41
help his character progress, uh, but
28:44
two, satisfy both things, right? It
28:47
would allow him his sense of adventure
28:49
when he needs it, but also he would
28:51
still be maintaining his, uh, sense of
28:53
obligation to his people. It just
28:56
wouldn't be as great of an obligation.
28:58
And I wouldn't I wouldn't mind seeing
29:01
that personally because where we're at
29:04
right now, even in the book when we talk
29:06
about it, uh the blood ties, one of the
29:09
biggest problems that Terallion says is
29:11
he's not a statesman and he hates it. He
29:13
hates having all that responsibility.
29:16
like yes, he can command people in
29:18
battle and yes, he understands that
29:20
there's, you know, this this risk of
29:22
death when he sends somebody on a
29:24
mission or to do something, but when
29:25
you're running an entire like kingdom,
29:28
not just a war machine, you don't just
29:31
have to worry about who's getting what,
29:33
like our rations okay, you also have to
29:36
worry about, well, you know, this farmer
29:38
stole my cow, right? Or or whatever
29:40
mundane things are. And to those people,
29:43
those are earthshattering events. That
29:46
farmer doesn't necessarily care that the
29:49
world is ending on the other side of the
29:51
planet when his pumpkins got trampled,
29:55
right? It's it's a weird balance and
29:57
Trion hates it. So, yeah. I I don't
30:01
know. It's it I don't know. Eric, do you
30:02
have any other thoughts?
30:03
>> Yeah, we we've talked about maybe a
30:06
lower stakes expansion sometime after
30:08
the World Soul saga, like a a a tie in
30:11
tying up loose ends and stuff like that.
30:14
I would love to see what happens next in
30:16
Stormwind in something like that where
30:19
the House of Nobles needs to decide what
30:21
to do in Stormwind. Will they have
30:23
another king? Will they choose another
30:25
line? Will they go to some kind of
30:28
council and like that's a major part of
30:31
the Alliance side? And it's not, you
30:33
know, the Alliance fighting some cosmic
30:35
threat. It's, you know, housekeeping.
30:38
Um, I think it would be it doesn't sound
30:41
as uh flashy, but it does sound
30:44
interesting in terms of like developing
30:46
the character and the story in the
30:48
world. I um I don't know like would we
30:52
get a new character in a king or someone
30:54
on the council? I don't think it would
30:56
need to have to go like what one of the
30:59
nobles was a dragon again to just be
31:02
interesting. Um, but I could I could see
31:05
that being kind of a more a less
31:08
combatthe heavy like series of quests
31:10
and a more diplomatic mission kind of
31:13
thing. And I I would I would enjoy it.
31:15
>> Well, hopefully that answers your
31:17
question or doesn't, I don't know. But
31:19
hopefully you enjoyed the journey one
31:20
way or another. We're going to move on
31:22
to the next question here. This one
31:24
comes from Dos. Uh, I was going through
31:26
the void storm this past week and
31:28
stumbled on into the side quest
31:30
involving the Netherent Dye. Love their
31:34
story thoroughly and enjoyed meeting
31:35
them. Definitely want to see more of
31:37
them. So, on that note, which groups of
31:40
people, beings that we've met would you
31:42
like to see us check back in with or
31:44
just plain get more story and why?
31:47
Please elaborate as appropriate. Matt,
31:50
do you have a preference? Who would you
31:51
who would you like to spend more time
31:52
with? I there's like 27 people 27 groups
31:56
I could um uh for starters are we sure
32:01
that that other Dranor blew up? Like
32:04
have we checked? Like I I feel like we
32:07
don't know for certain that they're
32:09
gone. Perhaps the you know the the light
32:13
bound from that world are doing
32:16
something. And I feel like if they are,
32:18
we should know because they kind of got
32:21
fanatical there for a bit. Just just a
32:24
bit. And and I think it was not the best
32:27
way things could have been going. And if
32:29
say there's there's uh Urell in a
32:34
spaceship somewhere coming at Azeroth,
32:37
I'd kind of like to know. Just just
32:38
saying that that's something I I think
32:40
we could learn. So yeah, I I'm going to
32:43
go with that even though there's like 17
32:44
different ones. you know, could we
32:46
possibly finally get to see what Naga
32:49
culture is like from the Naga
32:51
perspective? Uh, that one quest we got
32:54
way way way back in Cataclysm is no
32:57
longer sufficient. Um, I I would like to
33:00
know what do the Naga do when they're
33:02
not conquering everything.
33:04
>> Yeah.
33:05
>> So, that's another one, but I'm going to
33:07
stick with the first one first. The late
33:09
bound. I want to know where they are.
33:10
Eric,
33:11
>> I've got an old school and a new school
33:14
because there's a lot of groups that we
33:16
haven't seen in many expansions and
33:18
places we know we're going back to. So,
33:19
we know we're going back to Northrren.
33:21
So, what are some of the Tonka and the
33:24
Tuscar been up to? Like, is it not much
33:28
or have they been fighting off new
33:31
threats or or or something? But I think
33:34
more more exciting and it's maybe a
33:38
little bit too early, but what's going
33:39
on in Ashkahet? I mean, they're
33:41
leaderless. There's still a lot going
33:43
on. We're kind of we don't have a true
33:45
alliance with them, but we worked with a
33:47
lot of Narubians. Um, if it was not that
33:52
hard to make a player model out of a
33:55
spider, maybe they would have become an
33:57
allied race. But I'm sure there's way
33:59
more roadblocks than if we just, you
34:00
know, found another elf tribe. But what
34:04
what's going on there? Are the four um
34:08
you know, the leaders of the severed
34:10
threads, are they still working together
34:12
or with a power vacuum, are they
34:14
starting to like manipulate and position
34:17
themselves? like what the rank and file
34:20
did enough of them stay like not
34:24
going along with the queen and Shereek
34:26
to to move forward and and like are they
34:29
still attacking Hallofall? Like what's
34:31
what's going on there? We kind of went
34:33
in and stirred it all up like Zealat
34:36
stirred it all up and then we tried to
34:37
come in and fix a lot of things and then
34:39
we left. So, I would be interested to
34:42
see, you know, sometimes we get an
34:44
allied race and then we get, you know, a
34:46
representative or two showing up to
34:48
council meetings and stuff and giving us
34:49
like a couple lines, but yeah, I would
34:52
love to know what's going on there and
34:54
if it's chaos or settling or what.
34:56
>> Yeah, I see. You kind of hit the nail on
34:59
the head there for me with a lot of
35:00
these is we meet a lot of interesting
35:03
folks and then we just don't get much
35:07
from them. We'll we'll hit a story beat
35:09
with them and maybe we'll come back and
35:11
visit them a while ago. But there are so
35:13
many so many varied races in Azeroth
35:16
that we interact with that are either
35:19
just there to be villains but have a
35:21
complex society. Quillbore comes to
35:24
mind. Uh when's the last time we really
35:26
heard anything from the Quillbore? It's
35:27
been a while. How are they doing? Have
35:29
they evolved any? Are they still, you
35:31
know, worshiping a rot god?
35:33
>> If you remember the story with Bane,
35:35
that's going way back. That's the last
35:36
time I've heard anything from him. Yeah.
35:38
>> Yeah, it's it's it's pretty much time.
35:40
Yeah, I would agree there.
35:42
>> But like that that's another one. Uh
35:44
let's go back to Mr. Pandaria. What are
35:46
the Ginu doing? What are the Hosen
35:47
doing? Um this comes up to mind because
35:49
at the time of this recording it is time
35:51
walking week and it happens to be Mr.
35:52
Pandaria. Um you know the the the Nether
35:57
are are an interesting one that I would
35:58
love to know more about too much in the
36:01
same way that I think you do, Dos. And I
36:04
think I I want to give a brief
36:06
introduction or at least a rundown of
36:07
them and why I would want to see more
36:09
about them and probably why you do too.
36:11
Uh first of all, because I think a lot
36:12
of people don't know who they are and
36:14
maybe even have been blindsided by them
36:16
when they go into Midnight, particularly
36:18
go into the voidtorm and do those
36:20
quests. So the Nether were originally
36:23
people that followed Prophet Velon when
36:26
they were fleeing from Sargeras and the
36:27
Burning League. They got on the ships,
36:29
went out and, you know, tried to find a
36:31
new world to settle on. Uh they wound up
36:34
getting to a place uh where they, you
36:37
know, thought they were going to be safe
36:39
and the Legion shows up. Legion takes a
36:41
pot shot at them. People can't get to
36:43
the ship in time. Ship has to take off.
36:45
Uh which winds up careening through the
36:47
cosmos and then crashing into Azeroth.
36:51
Uh but the rest though those Netherent
36:54
were left behind and it was I think it
36:56
was the world of Nashabore if I remember
36:59
correctly.
37:00
>> That's what the thing I'm reading says.
37:02
But they the interesting thing about
37:04
them is they were denied that they
37:06
didn't have the luxury of just fighting.
37:09
They had to survive in new and
37:11
interesting ways. And so they broker
37:14
deals with people that were or beings
37:16
that were formerly part of the uh
37:19
Burning Legion that defected. Beings of
37:22
the fell, beings of the void, beings of
37:24
the light. They didn't really care. Um
37:28
>> will you work with me so I don't die?
37:31
>> Yeah. And these are all and these are
37:32
all beings in the sort of the same vein.
37:34
The the you know defectors from the
37:36
burning legion in particular, right?
37:38
>> Um and what's interesting is right
37:40
before they get sucked into the void
37:42
storm is on their home planet on
37:45
Nashabore,
37:47
a Naru shows up and in the middle of
37:50
having a discussion of whether or not
37:52
they should trust or welcome this Naru.
37:54
Um, well, Dominars decide to open up a
37:58
portal of the sky and start sucking them
37:59
up into the voidstorm. Uh, and this is
38:02
where you meet Tamar. This is where you
38:04
you help, you know, break him free and
38:07
and get them through and and get them
38:09
liberated. But like it's again, what are
38:12
they doing this entire time? Velon fled
38:16
from Sargeras thousands of years ago.
38:19
Like it's been a while. So
38:22
>> yeah, there there's an estimate of
38:23
25,000 years, which I don't know if it's
38:26
ever been referenced in game, but people
38:28
have brought it up.
38:28
>> But think about think about that. 25,000
38:32
years on a planet where the light, the
38:34
void, and the fell are all working
38:36
together to survive.
38:38
>> Yeah. I'm also going to point out that
38:39
any world that has this many void, and
38:41
fell incursions most likely edging into
38:45
the Twisted Nether, which messes up time
38:47
progression. So they could they could
38:49
have been there even longer from their
38:51
perspective. That's what happens on
38:52
Outland. That's what you know we even
38:54
see it in the thousand years of war
38:56
story. So who knows how long this
38:59
society has been trucking along.
39:00
>> Uh anything else you want to add?
39:01
>> That's why I want to see that's why also
39:03
why I want to see the lightorn again
39:04
though because imagine the contrast
39:07
between these groups.
39:08
>> Oh yeah.
39:10
>> You know.
39:11
>> Well again and this you it's funny you
39:12
bring that up because like we know that
39:14
we're going to see the Arafi at some
39:15
point. Like the minute we we found them
39:18
in Hollowfell, uh that small contingion
39:20
of them that had been surviving there
39:21
for that period of time, the minute we
39:23
were there, we knew that they were going
39:25
to come up at some point. Like that's
39:27
it's Czechov's faction at this point. Um
39:31
>> yeah,
39:32
>> we're going to have to deal with the
39:33
Arai Empire. We're going to have to deal
39:34
with them. Are they going to be like the
39:36
light bound? Are they going to be like
39:40
this fanatical cult of light worshiping
39:42
people? It doesn't seem like it. if the
39:44
hollowal uh array are to be believed.
39:47
But there is that that sort of edge of
39:49
it. And what would happen if those array
39:52
met the lightbound with their
39:54
fanaticism? How would those react to
39:57
again the light being wielded like a
39:59
cudgel would be the best way that I can
40:01
really put it for the light? Yeah. And
40:03
meanwhile, the array wield the light
40:05
like a flaming sword. So I mean I feel
40:09
like they could they have common ground,
40:10
but they also have very different
40:12
approaches at the same time.
40:14
So, I don't know. It would be kind of
40:15
interesting if the Arathy meet the
40:18
lightbound before anybody else does. It
40:21
would also be big. It would be good for
40:22
the whole concept of Azeroth as a big
40:24
world where stuff happens you don't
40:25
necessarily know about right away. Um,
40:28
we we're seeing that in Midnight a lot.
40:30
Go ahead, Eric.
40:31
>> I am shocked we haven't heard anything
40:33
of any of the Halifollari immediately
40:36
trying to get home after like making
40:39
contact and being able to get out to the
40:41
surface. We know
40:43
>> is there is there something that I
40:44
missed?
40:44
>> There's a subcurrent, right? So like
40:46
there there's a thing towards the end of
40:49
uh the war within where they're not
40:52
necessarily sure that they think they
40:55
want to go home that they there's this
40:57
belief that they want at least from what
41:00
I remember from the quests and the story
41:02
lines that this is where they need to be
41:05
that the the giant crystal in the sky is
41:09
the reason they're there and it's broken
41:11
right now. And so they're not exactly
41:13
clamoring to go home because they don't
41:16
feel their work is done. At least that's
41:18
the impression I got from the the
41:19
questing and the story that was
41:21
presented. So I see that
41:22
>> I could be wrong and feel free to
41:25
correct me in the comments below. Um but
41:27
yeah, that's that's what I think.
41:29
>> Yeah, I don't think that uh their
41:31
mission was necessarily go and come back
41:33
so or report back in any way. There was
41:35
the I remember the quest where one of
41:38
the mages was trying to open a portal
41:39
and it went poorly and it didn't work
41:41
and that was like the last person who
41:43
could have done it. But um yeah, I I was
41:47
expecting to see like somewhere along
41:49
the coast of Everong woods like a ship
41:51
being built and saying like well we're
41:52
going to try to sail out there. But
41:55
yeah, now I'm now I'm wondering at all
41:57
if they feel the need to go back.
41:59
>> And I think Faren is a good example of
42:00
that, right? Because she could have gone
42:02
back home. She could have she could have
42:03
very easily, you know, hopped on a blimp
42:06
or a boat or, you know, said, "Hey,
42:09
Jana, here's the coordinates I need to
42:11
get to." Um, or, "Hey, Druids, can we go
42:15
there?" Or, you know, we're right right
42:17
now, we're in the middle of uh uh if you
42:19
go to the Herendar area, which is next
42:22
door to where Holofall is really. Uh, I
42:26
I mentioned this during the main
42:27
podcast, and I don't think I really
42:29
talked about it on Lore Watch, and I
42:30
want to talk about this at some point.
42:32
Root walking as a racial ability has
42:35
presented so many interesting possible
42:38
story uh links for the Harrener. Um
42:42
which she could easily
42:43
>> I think you mentioned specifically that
42:45
you could use it to get to world trees
42:46
pretty easily.
42:47
>> Yeah. You like literally all of the
42:49
where you where Herendar is referred to
42:51
as the cradle. All of the world tree
42:54
roots intertwine there. All of them. All
42:58
the ones that have ever existed or will
43:00
exist. So they can travel through those
43:02
routes to those locations. You as a
43:05
player can do this depending on where
43:07
you go in Herendar. And if you haven't
43:09
looked into it further than oh it's a
43:10
cool recall button back to the main uh
43:12
my racial main area. Go different places
43:15
and use it while you're in Herendar. But
43:18
we know that they can take people with
43:20
them. They could probably get pretty
43:22
close to to where the Arai Empire is if
43:24
they really needed to. All these options
43:26
are available, but Faren wants to
43:28
connect with the world again because the
43:30
Arafi closed themselves off.
43:32
>> I feel like Faren's right where she
43:33
wants to be. Like she's not going to go
43:36
build a boat with all this happening at
43:38
the Sunwell,
43:39
>> right? And I don't think she's the only
43:40
one either, right? Like the the Arai of
43:42
Holofal are probably more likely to I
43:45
don't want to say integrate, but
43:46
interact with the rest of the world
43:48
because they felt the calling to leave
43:50
the empire. So they're not in a hurry to
43:53
go back. At least as far as I can tell.
43:55
Well, hopefully that answers that
43:56
question for you. I think we have time
43:58
for one more before we have to call it a
44:00
day here. Uh, and this one comes from
44:02
Sarah. Is the Sunwell simply a massive
44:05
power source that can be weaponized into
44:08
a portal? Do you think any major font of
44:10
power can be used for the same purpose
44:12
or is it special somehow? Eric, oh, go
44:15
ahead, Matt.
44:16
>> No, no, I'm going to let Eric go.
44:17
>> Uh, I think yes, Matt.
44:23
>> Okay. Um, what I was going to say is we
44:25
know that the Well of Eternity
44:27
originally was used for it. And that one
44:30
was used exactly because it was such a
44:32
pont of power that they thought they
44:34
could make a portal big enough for
44:36
Sargeras to come through. And Sargeras
44:39
doesn't need the portal to be big just
44:41
because he's big, although he is. Uh,
44:44
it's the sheer like a Titan warps places
44:49
by being there. like to steal from Mass
44:51
Effect. The Titans are so powerful that
44:55
their locality disrupted. Um, one of the
44:58
things is we saw that a world soul that
45:00
goes to to the to the um Shadowlands can
45:04
disrupt the Shadowland. It almost
45:07
completely shut down the the uh created
45:10
version of the Oh, buddy heck. I want to
45:12
call him the Avatar and that's not it.
45:13
the Arbiter um got shut down by being
45:17
exposed to Argus' world soul, which was
45:19
a nent world soul. It wasn't a fully
45:22
developed one. It was pulled out and
45:25
forced to manifest by Sargeras
45:28
and And Go ahead, Joe.
45:30
>> I was going to say it wasn't even a the
45:31
full thing. It was a portion of it, a
45:33
splinter of it that got sent there.
45:34
>> Yeah. And so think about what would
45:38
happen if if Sargeras had come through
45:42
in full his full form, the form we see
45:44
him taking when he arrives on Azeroth
45:47
much later, he probably would have
45:49
crushed continents just by being there.
45:53
>> Um, you'll notice when he interacts with
45:54
Azeroth, even when he stabs Azeroth,
45:56
he's mostly cloud. like he's the cloud
46:00
form is all around him and just parts of
46:02
him are rising out of it in a in a in a
46:05
corporeal form. Um Sargeras
46:09
even in that moment I don't I still
46:11
don't think he was trying to kill
46:12
Azeroth. I don't think that's what he
46:13
was aiming for. He might have been
46:15
aiming for where the Haroner live. Um
46:18
because that's there's a the whole rift
46:20
of Alm, the missing god, all that stuff.
46:24
that might have been an attempt to to
46:26
get rid of that whatever it is. Um, and
46:29
it it may um, but I don't think that
46:31
that he was trying to kill anything. I
46:33
think he was trying to essentially uh,
46:36
this is going to sound weird, but I
46:37
think he was trying to perform the
46:38
equivalent of a C-section. I think he
46:40
wanted to pull Azeroth out and into
46:42
awakeness now. And much in the way that
46:44
he forced Argus into awareness, he
46:47
wanted to do the same to Azeroth. Um,
46:49
and what that means, you know, better
46:52
eyes than I, but that's the only reason
46:54
that they had to be Well of Eternity
46:57
amounts of power to to pop that thing
47:00
open when it's we've seen that the tomb
47:04
of Sargeras was built to facilitate that
47:06
kind of and that's weird to think about
47:09
because it was the Titans who did that.
47:11
So why did they build a portal generator
47:14
into the tomb of Sargeras which was at
47:17
the time was called the temple of Aloon?
47:19
Why would Aloon want a portal generator?
47:21
But then we think about Aundras and the
47:23
fact that Aeonar was on Aundra, right?
47:26
Why was Aonar on Aundress? How did Aonar
47:29
get to Aloundress when her her spirit
47:31
had supposedly arrived on Azeroth and
47:34
was bound inside one of the Titan
47:36
keepers? And for that matter, how did
47:39
the rest of them get out? We know that
47:42
there's only one we know who should have
47:44
been able to get out. That would have
47:45
been Aman Thu because we know Amanthul
47:47
was actually divided between multiple
47:49
people and at least one of them pulled
47:52
the Amenthul essence out of himself and
47:54
created the uh the I want to say the the
47:58
waters of spring but the fountain in uh
48:01
those waters were created by Amenthal's
48:04
essence. A lot of this stuff makes me
48:06
feel like there's an entire network like
48:09
the one the demons were using that Idon
48:11
co-opted. I don't think he made that. I
48:13
don't think the demons made it. I think
48:15
maybe it was made before Sargeras and he
48:18
just used it.
48:20
>> Mhm.
48:21
>> And so I think it's designed around the
48:23
idea that you can just plug and play the
48:25
power from whatever world you're making
48:27
it for. Um, and the reason that places
48:29
like the Sunwell, the, you know, the the
48:32
original Well of Eternity, um, the Night
48:34
Well, the reason they can be used for
48:36
this kind of thing is because they're
48:37
just tapping into the planet's power,
48:40
which is ultimately Titan power, which
48:43
is ultimately just a lot of spirit
48:45
essence, which is justma. And that to me
48:49
indicates that yeah, not only can you
48:51
use any like well of eternity type
48:53
thing, any any font of power, you could
48:55
just you could just use rawma in any
48:58
form you can get it.
49:00
>> We kind of see that though, right? Like
49:01
we kind of see that because that's what
49:03
brokers are making their their portals
49:06
out of when we first see them in the
49:07
Shadowlands, right? Um, one of the one
49:10
of the side quests you do for them is
49:12
you gathering essentially bits of of
49:14
shredded so that they can open up
49:17
portals for you to go get livestock for
49:19
them essentially. We find out later why
49:22
as we and go to Caresh and do the things
49:24
with Venari. Um, but like they're
49:28
they're using to open portals. Uh, the
49:31
queen of Ardanell does the exact same
49:34
thing, right? her the portals that she
49:36
uses to send the reborn folks back
49:38
through is powered by the the I think
49:41
the the TLDDR is that yeah any
49:43
sufficiently large source of power can
49:48
be a portal um but the thing is the
49:52
scale of that is what really is defined
49:54
let's let's use for an example the dark
49:56
heart which is topical for many reason
50:00
um but the dark heart is this massive
50:02
it's a battery right it's a battery for
50:06
Arcane, Void, doesn't matter. It's just
50:08
an it's an energy battery. And what do
50:11
we see
50:13
Zotath and Odicron doing it with it when
50:16
we first see the dark heart? Sucking up
50:20
the Titan and void corruption of Gacron.
50:25
Because again, the Gacron was not just
50:30
an old god entity. It was the an
50:34
infiltration of a process that tier was
50:37
working on which is Titan power. That
50:41
whole thing empowering the dragons, all
50:43
that Titan, it was originally Titan
50:45
magic, Titan power, Titan alchemy,
50:47
whatever you want to call it. It was a
50:49
change to that mixture that allowed
50:50
Gacron to become the undead spewing
50:53
horror that he was. And it got sucked
50:55
right into the dark heart. And how many
50:57
etherealss including King Saladar uh how
51:01
many beings Dementius
51:05
uh got sucked into it? Khadgar got
51:07
converted into energy and shoved in the
51:09
forever box until we broke him out of
51:11
the forever box. Um you know what you're
51:15
making me remember?
51:16
>> Go ahead.
51:16
>> What was during the green fire quest, we
51:20
find out a couple of things. Mhm.
51:22
>> One of them is that the Titans created
51:24
the the summoning rituals that we use,
51:26
warlocks use today.
51:28
>> Those were created by Sargeras when he
51:32
was entrapping them onto that like
51:34
prison world that he built, Mardun. And
51:38
that
51:39
found the network of teleportation
51:41
circles from the Black Temple. And and
51:46
it was that discovery that got him to
51:49
decide not to use the enormous amount of
51:51
power he had stored there to help the
51:53
blood the blood elves because he needed
51:56
that to make the jump to destroy the uh
52:00
nethra the the the whole the home world
52:02
of the demon people. Oh god I I should
52:05
be able to remember their name. I know
52:06
who they are. Um the sneaky ones, the
52:10
hidden ones, the hidden guests. Matthew
52:12
>> Oh. Yeah.
52:13
>> Yeah. the like the whole deal with
52:15
destroying the Nathan world was using
52:17
that network and he got there through
52:20
that power that he had stored in the
52:22
basement of the black temple. That's how
52:24
he got there. That's how he sent people
52:26
to Mardun. It's again it comes back to
52:29
the idea that you know
52:30
>> let's let's power against stolen is is
52:32
generating portals.
52:34
>> Let let's let's take it one step even
52:35
further back. The dark portal what
52:37
originally powered and opened it? Souls.
52:39
>> The souls. Souls. Yeah. which are
52:43
>> the the path of glory that leads up to
52:46
uh leads up to the dark portal that is
52:48
paved in what? Remind me again there,
52:50
gentlemen.
52:51
>> Bones.
52:52
>> Skulls.
52:53
>> Grand bones
52:54
>> that were all sacrificed for what?
52:56
>> The thing we're talking about in the
52:57
first place, right?
52:59
>> Yeah. So, like it literally is the them
53:02
getting themsel like they're they're
53:04
powering. and they're opening up this
53:05
giant portal, this era definfing thing
53:10
by using any sufficiently large power
53:13
source can be used to open a portal. Um,
53:16
in fact, you know what it makes me think
53:17
now going back to what we were talking
53:18
about with Sargeras needed a super big
53:20
portal to come through. That might be
53:23
because Sargeras, you need a portal of
53:26
sufficient to allow this thing to come
53:29
through because of how much
53:31
>> summon him.
53:32
>> Yeah.
53:33
>> Yeah. because you are literally having
53:35
to pull that muchma through the cosmos
53:38
and to your world in the first place.
53:40
And a Titan has so much that it blows up
53:43
the arbiter when it tries to read it.
53:45
And that was only a small piece of it.
53:47
>> It really seems like the the more stuff
53:50
you're trying to get through and the
53:52
bigger the entity and also the distance
53:54
because yep,
53:55
>> you can, you know, teleport back and
53:57
forth, you can blink yourself and it's
53:59
really easy. If you want to teleport
54:01
Dooran to another continent, you need
54:04
like all the mages working together. If
54:06
you want to teleport an entire army with
54:08
a standing portal from one planet to
54:10
another, you need all the souls of all
54:13
those prisoners. So, and it really seems
54:15
like all the schools of magic have a
54:18
teleport. There's death gates.
54:19
>> Yeah, we we we could talk about the
54:21
portal to the Oculus where like
54:23
literally it was using the conjunction
54:25
of the lay lines in order to do that.
54:27
And what you guys are talking about is
54:28
almost like it's almost suspiciously
54:30
easy to teleport around our univer. And
54:33
I think part of that is that this is a
54:36
video game where we have so many
54:38
continents and planets that if we didn't
54:40
have an easy way to teleport, the game
54:41
would be really boring.
54:43
>> But I also think that maybe like what
54:45
you're talking about, maybe there's some
54:47
underlying network that we're just
54:48
tapping into. We just need to tap into
54:51
it with the right amount of energy of
54:52
the right kind.
54:53
>> We kind of know that's already the case.
54:54
And and I'll I'll I'll make the the case
54:57
right now for it. Zerith Mortise, like
55:00
literally Zerith Mortise has proven that
55:02
to us because
55:04
not only are there, you know, the the
55:06
the the first ones and and that engine
55:09
that then connects to Azeroth, it's
55:11
doing that through dimensional portal
55:13
essentially. That's what we're fighting
55:16
as they're trying to power it up using
55:18
as the power source. when you get to
55:19
Orabos the very first time and I I
55:22
brought this up when we first saw images
55:24
of this. Matt knows this and I' I've
55:27
never let this go.
55:28
>> No, he has been very very continuous
55:31
about this.
55:32
>> There there is when you look in go
55:35
outside the ring and just look up there
55:37
are just millions and millions and
55:40
millions of gateways. Those gateways
55:43
that we then summon and slot in take us
55:45
to very specific places, but there are
55:47
so many of them as far as the eye can
55:50
see. And as you're going through the
55:51
pathway through that gateway to, you
55:53
know, Ardaneld or Maldraxis or or
55:56
anywhere else, you see all the other
55:58
gateways, too. We're just not using
56:00
them. They lead somewhere. Where do they
56:03
lead? It's really interesting to think
56:05
about the fact that the uh Toggast and
56:09
the and Orabos are part of the same
56:11
structure initially.
56:12
>> Yep.
56:13
>> And that structure was a first one
56:14
structure. And when uh Anduin opens the
56:19
gate and escapes, he doesn't himself get
56:22
to leave, but he gets the player through
56:25
uh and gets them out of the the the
56:27
mall. It's commented on that they were
56:29
surpris the jailer was surprised he
56:31
could do that. wasn't stunned, but he
56:35
was surprised. And that's because, you
56:38
know, Andowin could channel a form of
56:42
the light is a form of everything in
56:44
reality isab based. And so, and then you
56:47
think about the fact that that thing was
56:49
the original or you know, the combined
56:51
structure of Toorgast and Orbos was
56:53
originally the way to Zerith Mortise
56:55
from the Shadowland. But Zerith Mortise
56:57
also connects to Azeroth. And we know of
57:00
at least one more Zerith that connects
57:02
to Azeroth and that's Zerith Ordice, the
57:04
order one. We don't know where it goes
57:06
from there, but we know almost by
57:09
inference we know that the Zeriths exist
57:12
to facilitate contact between outer
57:15
reality for lack of Yeah, the outer
57:16
plains for lack of a better word and
57:18
Azeroth's plane of reality, the prime
57:20
material. We can keep using that term
57:22
from Dn D. And that implies that the
57:25
network that the Titans seem to use for
57:28
demon summoning and all that was
57:30
originally the first one creation and
57:32
it's part of that network.
57:34
>> The first ones had a big transportation
57:36
network for some reason and we're just
57:39
stumbling into it now. We're just using
57:40
their abandoned subway tunnels to bring
57:42
armies from one place to another. If you
57:44
had a a series of computers uh connected
57:47
together through a hub and you were made
57:49
of electricity and you lived in one of
57:51
the computers that it' be a
57:53
teleportation system.
57:55
>> Not cuz it was designed to be one, but
57:57
because you are the thing it's meant to
58:00
transmit. You are the thing that allows
58:02
it to go from this one to that one to
58:05
that one. And I think I mean we've
58:07
talked about the lay lines of Azeroth
58:10
and how they're the network of power and
58:12
you want to put something on the nexus
58:14
of them to tap into that power and it
58:17
sounds like we're talking about lay
58:18
lines of the universe
58:20
>> and pretty much the intersection of them
58:22
is powerful and we've I know you guys
58:24
have been talking for a long time about
58:25
how Azeroth is special or at the center
58:27
or in some way important cuz why else
58:30
would everybody be trying to influence
58:32
it and claim it and do you think that we
58:34
could just be at some huge hub of all
58:37
these
58:39
lay lines of the great dark beyond. It
58:41
>> it seems like if not that then some
58:44
other method by which the places outside
58:47
of our world are meant to go to and come
58:49
from withma and the shadowlands in
58:52
particular goes there and then it comes
58:55
back. It comes back with that with its
58:57
consciousness removed. It's almost like
59:00
we used to have that idea of the Emerald
59:02
Dream as like a backup of Azeroth, but
59:05
it's almost like that's what the
59:06
Shadowland because you're everybody's
59:09
there. Like you lived, you died, your
59:11
animal goes back to the world, but your
59:14
your existence, everything you went
59:15
through is in the Shadowlands.
59:17
>> I I will I want to we're running out of
59:19
time, but I will end it with this. I
59:20
think there is a reason why the
59:21
Shadowlands, which is an a place
59:23
entirely made out of Panama, means you
59:26
can get to wherever you want to go. And
59:27
that's why the broker settled there
59:29
because it connects to literally
59:30
everything and it is a gigantic source
59:33
of power. It is a cosmic battery which
59:36
can open portals forever. So going back
59:38
to the root of your question, Sarah,
59:41
yes. Yes, it is. It is any any major
59:45
power can be used for this purpose,
59:47
whether it is opening a portal or likely
59:50
being converted into some form of bomb
59:52
or or weapon because we've seen that's
59:55
also something that's happened. Looking
59:56
at you, Azerite. Well, that friends, any
59:58
any parting thoughts, Eric? Matt,
1:00:01
>> I'm just glad I don't have to buy runes
1:00:02
of teleportation anymore. That corrupted
1:00:05
my wallet in classic.
1:00:07
>> You You're not wrong.
1:00:09
>> I'm just going to say this. Think about
1:00:11
the fact that the Emerald Dream has a
1:00:13
direct connection to the Shadowland.
1:00:15
>> Yep. As well as Azeroth and possibly
1:00:17
other places because we know the Emerald
1:00:19
Dream does not stop there. But I think
1:00:20
that we're going to call it there,
1:00:21
friends. I do want to remind you that
1:00:22
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