Up next in 10
We’re doing something a little new this week for Lore Watch, with a remaster of an older episode. As Joe explains in the new intro, we wanted to highlight something that we’ve already covered, but which could use another look as it becomes relevant again. Paladins or Crusaders are one of the most common fan picks for the second new class to come to Diablo 4, so we’re revisiting the lore that makes them so popular.
In this episode, Joe and Matt give us a primer on the in-game religions that Crusaders, Templars, and Paladins are holy warriors for — and why they declined in power after each expansion where they were featured. They are fascinating to explore, being holy warriors in a game so consumed in every way by evil. Join us as we go through the ages, from Akarat’s visions all the way up through the information we get from Deckard Cain.
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Show More Show Less View Video Transcript
0:00
hello and welcome to lore watch this is not quite our normal episode this is the
0:06
first in a series that we are going to be calling from the archives where we go back through some
0:11
of our older episodes that are relevant into either what's happening now or what
0:17
we think is going to be happening in the future and bring them forward for people that may not have listened to them in
0:24
this our first episode we're going way back to episode 184 which is the history of Diablo
0:31
paladins Templars and Crusaders where we get to talk about well one of my
0:36
favorite classes in all of Diablo history now you may be asking yourself why are we talking about that here well
0:44
one of the largest and latest rumors that we have swirling around Diablo I is
0:50
that the next expansion will have a class that is in the vein of the
0:56
paladins the Templars and the Crusaders especially when you consider that there are stories that tie into that lineage
1:05
directly in Diablo I and while they are side quests that you can go and do they
1:10
are still there and really poignant and would seem very weird to maybe have in
1:17
that game and devote that much attention to if they weren't going to do something with it especially because in the case
1:24
of the Crusader it's a loose end and that loose end well Diablo likes to pull on those
1:33
so I hope that you enjoy this remastered version of episode
1:39
[Music]
1:48
184 hello and welcome to lore watch a round table free form discussion about lore in the games of Blizzard
1:54
Entertainment I'm your host Joe prz one of several lore Focus folks from blizzard watch and I've got my marvelous
1:59
coach host with me today Matt Rossy how you doing today Matt I was bitten by a radio the spider on my way in so
2:04
hopefully you know pulling for it if you get to be Spiderman before me I'm gonna have some very Choice words I was
2:11
reading Spider-Man before you were born I had this by cast Spider-Man
2:17
figure when I was like eight like the coolest freaking toy um just man but
2:24
we're not here to talk about Spider-Man folks today we're going to be doing part two of our Diablo class lore
2:30
Extravaganza I have no clue what we're calling it I leave that all up to to Dano on the website he's the one that's
2:36
more clever with names than I am uh but today we're going to be talking uh more about those classes in particular we
2:42
were talking about uh paladins and Crusaders which is roughly about where
2:47
we left off last one uh and so I guess I'll I'll kind of kick it over to Matt to sort of start things off well in
2:54
order to talk about Palin as Crusaders you kind of have to talk about the zachar room and in order to talk talk
3:00
about the zachar room you have to talk about akarat akarat was a Hermit
3:05
basically kind of a guy who lived in the basically was very humble he just lived
3:10
out in the wilderness he he was an aesthetic I think is the best word for it and one day he was he was basically
3:17
doing his whole meditation thing and he had a visitation at least as far as he was concerned uh he saw a being of pure
3:24
light and he believed that this being was an angel he named it the angel arus
3:30
which means son of light in in the uh original language of of uh I want to say
3:36
Calum but that's not the name of the nation is yon say no no no no this is uh
3:41
I can't remember the name of the nation even though I know that Calum is in it ah I hate when my brain does this kistan
3:48
kistan yeah okay so yeah um he he lived in uh kistan and he in the original
3:54
language of kistan Yas means son of light he saw this being and he believed that through the visitation of this
4:01
being he learned that within every person exists this powerful light uh if
4:08
you devote yourself to this Inner Light uh you can achieve wonders you can touch
4:13
the the true nature of divinity in the cosmos this was the origin of the zachar room zachar room itself basically means
4:21
Inner Light um now some people specifically deer Kane deer Kane
4:26
believed that what Z what akarat saw was a relic of the life of odsan you know CA
4:35
because he believed that odsan um olded sorry not qu droma that's a Star Wars
4:40
character geez um he he believed that alysian sacrifice the the giving up his
4:47
own existence to seal the world Stone and prevent the sin war from having ever
4:53
happened and thus saving Sanctuary from the angels and the demons uh he believed
4:58
that that act reverberated throughout creation even though it no longer existed it had
5:06
existed and the the fact of its existence created the Paradox that created the vision throughout time and
5:13
space all these Mystic soy yeah I was just going to say because it wasn't it wasn't just accurat that had like
5:18
similar Visions there were a series of Mystics yeah yeah other Mystics reported to have seen something similar he
5:25
believed that's what uh aarat saw and in so doing he kind of touched
5:31
upon the whole nature of the Nephilim that they do in fact contain great power all people do contain it because that's
5:38
the nature of of humanity in the the Diablo Universe it everyone does contain
5:43
great light and also great Darkness um but he he basically started this
5:50
teaching about this Inner Light but he didn't intend a religion uh when he he
5:56
basically wandered around kast telling people what he'd seen and
6:01
telling them you should you know listen to the Inner Light and be you know be a good person you this is what you should
6:07
do you should live good lives and be good people and touch upon your inner light and people followed him he gained
6:13
disciples but he wasn't trying to gain disciples he was just trying to spread word of the thing he saw so after a
6:20
while and no one knows exactly when but aarat was like okay uh you guys are getting kind of kind of too into me and
6:28
he basically vanished yeah into the uh the jungles of kisan right like he just kind of like disappeared off into the
6:34
Wilds yeah he just left he was like okay I've told you people what you're supposed to do uh now go do it you don't
6:40
need me for this uh I'm not I have no special wisdom to impart to you on to how you should live your life I just
6:47
know what I saw so I've I've told you and now I'm gone and so he outed but
6:53
while that you know that was nice for him the people of of carass which was
6:59
the City that he first taught it in basically built up an organization
7:04
around it they they built up a faith and they called themselves the zachar room after the zachara which was the ET the
7:11
inner light that he had told them about didn't that actually not really become a thing though until what was it uh there
7:16
was an emperor that codified it right like it was there it wasn't actually like a church until I don't even
7:23
remember what year it was but I I I think the 11th century of the of the setting the 11th century is when the Rod
7:30
first interacted with them now that was that was that's not there was no Emperor
7:35
who had actually told them to be anything yet but in the 11th century that's when the Herod were uh running
7:42
around hunting down the three prime evils that was when they the dark Exile happened the three great evils my
7:49
apologies um when the three great evils got themselves exiled to sanctuary and the herad began stalking them the Church
7:57
of zachar room had gained enough prominence in kistan that they started
8:03
spreading the word uh they started actually going around teaching people and this is when when they created these
8:10
missionaries this is when the very first paladins came to be because they they
8:16
were like we're going to go te we're going to teach everybody in all of sanctuary about the Holy Light and they're going to join the church and
8:21
it's going to be great and they sent missionaries in various directions and
8:28
they got murdered like there were Bandits and Nations that didn't want to hear it and you know don't don't try
8:35
going up to like um the what what is now the the dreadlands uh at the time it was
8:40
just the northern the northern steps or Soros you know sand don't go up there
8:45
and try and tell them you've got a new religion because they don't want to hear it and as a result they created the
8:53
paladins to protect their missionaries that's the original reason for them to to have created paladins because it was
8:59
they wanted to convert various peoples of other nations to their faith and the priests of zachar room weren't cutting
9:06
it they would go up with they would go like we use one example they would go to the jungles to the South and they'd be
9:13
like hey we've got this holy word for you and then they would get murdered because the people there already worshiped their own spirits and had no
9:19
interest in it so this is where zachm starts getting darker because the the
9:24
paladins converted people by sword they weren't converting them was very much
9:30
like Old World Conquest style right like it was roll up my armor is better than
9:35
your armor my weapons are better than your armors you're going to worship my God now happened in the 12th century um
9:40
so that was about a hundred years after the dark Exile what what basically happened was tal Rasha who was the head
9:48
of the herad at the time had had connections to the to the zakar room he
9:54
he knew them he he liked their teachings he he believed that they were the they were on the right track when they
10:01
started hunting down the three prime the three great evils uh they captured Mesto
10:07
and they were like what do we do with him we got we still got to catch the other two and well we can't just wander around carrying this Soul Stone it's
10:13
like a it's like a screaming Beacon to every demon in the vicinity like we'll never sneak up on them and he was like I
10:19
know these monks and they're they're a small and humble order they're not particularly widespread uh but they have
10:26
a nice Temple that they you know in in karat and I'm pretty sure these guys aren't going to get corrupted so why don't we
10:32
we leave the crystal with them and so they did and this was outside of just
10:38
outside of kast um right next to it basically the the order had a a temple
10:44
called travenol that they built up and this tropical became the heart of the zachar room and it became the heart of
10:50
not one but two Paladin orders uh Protectors of the world in the hand of zachar room right the word word y yeah
10:58
of the word and the hand is zarum yeah and the the problem was is that the
11:04
paladins who were living in in traven call basically they were they were being
11:10
used more and more as the military arm of the church and the church militant
11:15
became the church like the the the Church of zachar room became militant order and the the hand of zachar room
11:22
were very much this kind of holy war they were they would certainly they certainly fought demons absolutely they
11:29
f well isn't it isn't it sort of like the logical Evolution too didn't the church at one point have like a set of inquisitors that would like basically go
11:36
out and murder folks that they saw thought were corrupted well the the zachum Inquisition came up because there were demons throughout the land like
11:44
they were they were having trouble with demons what they call the time of troubles was happening and the the
11:50
zachum Inquisition didn't actually have inquisitors per se it was more like some
11:55
members of the handz Zach room would show up in a village and if they saw anything that even remotely reminded
12:01
them of demons they would attack them well they called them what zealots right uh yeah but that's not quite the same
12:08
thing uh but it's good enough for government work um but here the problem we had was basically there was a I don't
12:15
know how to explain this there was a rebellion within the church at this time
12:21
like people within the priesthood of Zach were like we're kind of losing the thread here guys like this isn't this
12:27
isn't what we were supposed to be doing that the Inner Light isn't meant to be used like a hammer I mean we're just
12:34
we're going to places and we're not teaching them about the light they have inside themselves I mean the zachar room
12:40
was supposed to be compatible with anything like it wasn't like supposed to be an organized Church in the first
12:45
place akarat never intended it to be and around this time if I don't know if you know that you probably do know this uh
12:53
rakus was a very powerful figure inside kistan and he was so powerful that the
13:00
then Emperor basically came up with a way to get rid of him which was to send him West to spread zachar room to you
13:09
know the PE The Barbarians as they considered them The Barbarians of the Western lands who were not the same as
13:14
the children of bathos who were up the North in the northern steps but they considered the people of the western
13:19
kingdoms to be barbaric and they were going to conquer them for their own good but one of the clerics this is the
13:26
cleric akan he was like this is not right we have completely lost the the thread here the inner light is supposed
13:33
to be everyone's inheritance whether they're a barbarian living in the North or a a swamp dweller to the west to the
13:41
east or someone up in in Scot Glenn that it doesn't matter who they believe in
13:47
doesn't matter it's not we're not supposed to be looking to higher powers and outside forces it's supposed to be
13:54
the Inner Light it's inside you you're supposed to reach out to that what are we doing
13:59
what's happened to us and he wasn't he was like midly placed he wasn't like a
14:05
like at this point misto had started to corrupt pretty much everybody who was well-placed in the faith and this is
14:12
about I want to say two to 300 years or so ago I don't remember exactly off the top of my head but he he started looking
14:19
around inside the church and he's trying he was like okay I don't know who to trust here so what I'm going to do is
14:26
I'm going to create an order of seekers who will go out into the world and he
14:31
wanted to look for akarat that was the thing he was like maybe we can find some trace of what happened to akarat maybe
14:36
that's where we can figure out what's going wrong with the church and so he
14:42
didn't want to recruit paladins he wanted Warriors who believed but they wanted them to believe in the Inner
14:48
Light you know he didn't want people who believed in the Church of zachar room itself he wanted the people who believed
14:55
in the thing that zachar room was supposed to be about not you know it was more important that they believed in
15:02
that than that they believed in the church itself at this point this time the church with its you know its Bishops
15:08
and it's its hierarchy I can't remember the name of the head of the church I'm gonna have to go look that up he's got a
15:13
very interesting title um the quagen yeah I was literally just grabbing it
15:19
yeah they don't it wasn't that kind of thing they were looking for he was looking for people who less less faith
15:25
in the the hierarchy and so forth and so when he found them when he got enough of
15:30
them he's like okay we're going to I want you to leave I want you to leave traven call I don't want you to tell
15:37
anyone where you're going just go out into the jungle and look for answers we
15:42
have to figure out what's wrong with the church and so ironically he took a few
15:48
hundred of like the church's best followers the ones who were most Incorruptible and sent them off on a
15:55
wild goose chase basically while metho was right under traven call corrupting it and so yeah um they left they were
16:06
gone and they were they were basically the Crusaders of of Diablo they were
16:11
that the origin of the Crusader order about two to 300 years ago as as they went off in the world like every one of
16:17
them that he recruited W was tasked with finding like an apprentice somebody that would follow in their footsteps when one
16:24
of them died their Apprentice would pick up the armor and weapons swear the oath and take their name yep
16:33
so every Crusader is named after one of the original Crusaders who left 200
16:38
something years ago and they've been searching this whole time for the secret to what corrupted the Church of zachar
16:44
room obviously while that was going on the Paladin orders were still spreading one of the Paladin orders went West with
16:51
Rockies and helped conquer what is now west March and canduras uh those two
16:57
nations were were settled by people from kistan who were sent out basically because they were Troublesome aren't
17:04
those now the ones that went that way aren't those now the Knights of West March kind of of them are yeah yeah some
17:09
of them are uh the ones that were like most loyal to rockus directly uh but obviously some of the corrupted uh
17:16
Bishops went West with them um Archbishop Lazarus is is a one of the
17:21
you know he's in that tradition um he went West with them there
17:26
was at this point it it's it's basically to explain what happened to the paladins
17:32
why there aren't any paladins in Diablo I basically one of the two Paladin orders the Protectors of the word were
17:38
essentially they were defunct for lack of that a word it wasn't that they were gone exactly they weren't they weren't a
17:46
cohesive like organization anymore like other it out like some of them became
17:51
like the Knights of West March and other things like that they they were basically they existed you know they
17:58
were part of the the protecting of of missionaries and so forth but most of them went with rockis when he went when
18:05
he went West and meanwhile the the uh the hand of zachar room were the became
18:11
the Paladin order in the East they became the the the power there so the
18:17
the West March ones the the Knights of the uh I mean the Protectors of the word did stuff like they fought the monks of
18:23
I garad you know and they fought the barbarians and they didn't really they they they couldn't really conquer those
18:30
two groups because they each of them had their own faith that wasn't amendable to
18:36
the zachar room like The Barbarians were like yeah we know there's a Neal light in all of us it the ancestors have told
18:42
us about that you can go away now and when they didn't go away and tried to push into the north they got their butts
18:49
handed to them to the point where they had to build a fortress just to keep the Barbarians from coming south cuz the
18:54
barbarians went out now The Barbarians were mad they had told you to stay out you didn't listen so now they're going
19:00
to now rakis found himself in an eternal border conflict so he went to i garad instead and tried to conquer that and
19:07
the exact same thing happened except this time with a lot more flipping and back flipping and kicking but basically
19:14
the the monks of if were like you're gonna tell us about the Inner Light yeah okay buddy we've been H you know what do
19:20
you think you know akarat was one of us he lived out in the mountains and he
19:25
studied things it it it's not this this you are not teaching us anything we need
19:30
to know and they're they're actually pretty close to like Scotland as well if gad's up in the north it's not too far
19:36
away from it um I think it's actually pretty close to the dreadlands as well like the dreadlands it's are to the west
19:42
of it so it's just across the water from some suland yeah it's not too far away
19:48
but either way it's just those were the places where they failed but they really had a lot of success um in what's now
19:55
west March and candas and those areas they they a lot of times they didn't even have to conquer anybody they just
20:00
showed up and said hey we're going to we're going to bring civilization in order to this place and they're like well yeah
20:06
okay we're we're Farmers so that's fine just we'll bring our grain in here so
20:12
that they did pretty well in but as a result yeah that that order basically became part of West March and to a
20:18
lesser degree candas they became part and parcel of of the the way that those
20:23
States existed and over time since the uh the and of of zachar room were like
20:31
going gang busters in the East there wasn't really a place for them the the Protectors of the word didn't really
20:37
have there wasn't any they kind of went back to that idea that akarat originally
20:43
had that you would just you just follow your inner light and you just do what
20:48
you could to be a good person and that was what you were supposed to do and so they didn't really have a place in they
20:55
didn't have a place in the city in the states of West March or kistan anymore
21:01
and that's why other orders replace them but they they still kind of like every so often you'd meet somebody that like
21:06
was a you know who had learned how to be a paladin from his his mother who learned how to be a paladin from her
21:12
father who learned how to be a paladin from some protector of the word out there like that they still every so
21:19
often one would pop up but if you really wanted a paladin order that was the hand of Zach room and it was corrupt from top
21:26
to bottom I mean because if you were mysto are you gon to let these people go
21:31
without installing your followers in there absolutely not that that would be a disaster for you the most
21:37
Incorruptible members the most Incorruptible Knights who could have been great paladins had all left to go
21:43
look for what was going on the ones that hadn't left to do that had gone west
21:48
with Rockies so the guys who had left were the ones who were really big on you know storming into a small village in a
21:55
swamp somewhere and burning everybody who didn't follow zaker room and those guys make really good converts to misto
22:01
he's all about hate so in the end that's kind of why you don't see paladins
22:07
anymore at least in Diablo II they still exist but they're relatively rare um
22:12
whereas the Crusaders the Crusaders spent 200 years looking around for what you know what was corrupting the the
22:18
Church of zachar room and then one day kistan blew up and you know kast was
22:24
destroyed and traven call was utterly destroyed Kass still exists it was just kind of abandoned whereas traven call
22:31
travenol got messed up and it turns out that there's this like fiend living
22:36
there the whole time and corrupting the church and like hundreds of people in
22:41
the church hierarchy and so essentially that's where the church of zachar room died like people still kind of believe
22:47
in it but it's there's no the the qu Hogan's gone there's no orderly like
22:52
leadership when when Emperor hakan fled to the to Calum he didn't bring any with
22:58
him he didn't have any SP you'll notice he doesn't have any spiritual advisers and so you basically end up with
23:04
paladins kind of got wiped out like the ones that weren't corrupt kind of like a lot of them turned away they're like oh
23:11
you know I can't believe in this uh the Knights of West marches you pointed out still exist but they were kind of
23:17
distanced anyway because they were they were a West March organization they weren't part of kistan and so they were
23:23
kind of like they they accepted the Spiritual Authority of the quagan but they weren't particularly part of that
23:28
church and so they've sort of still continued to exist they just kind of like okay whatever we're just going to be the nights of West Mar but it's
23:35
definitely a it's a destabilized situation and and this is this again is of course this is up to Diablo 3 we
23:41
don't know what's going on by Diablo 4 time uh having keep in mind that the
23:47
people zachar room believe that an angel came to teach them the word they believe that the angel Yas came and taught them
23:54
about the Inner Light having another Angel declare war on Humanity is is probably it's Faith shaking beyond
24:02
beyond just having an angel declare war on humanity and successfully wipe out a large section of it at that point too
24:10
like and then take into effect the uh Corruption of the Church of zachar room
24:15
right and everything else that happened in between it it that's enough to shake I think any organization's faith in
24:22
itself and at this point there really isn't an organization there isn't there's nobody in charge of the Church
24:27
of Zak there are like priests and and so forth but there's no it's kind of like
24:33
imagine if you blew up Rome in 890 and just wiped out the pope and sure
24:40
you know you'd have the Eastern Orthodox religion but it's way the heck to the East and nobody really knows much about it there's no there's no centralizing
24:47
Authority anymore well that hasn't been since what since uh what the since uh
24:53
misto was killed yeah Diablo 2 yep the qu gets destroyed the the the church is
24:59
revealed to have like a demon in in its heart they tried they're trying to root that out and everyone's like well your faith has been proved completely you
25:05
know false and then this happens and it's like okay not only is the facei F
25:11
Faith false everything we believed turns out that they hate us like keep in mind that like if you look at the if you look
25:17
at even the the monastery in um old Tristram there's angels in the in the
25:22
stained glass you know they they thought the Angels liked them they thought the Angels support them but the Angels don't
25:29
care at all about Humanity in in Diablo the the Angels so there's there's a lot
25:35
of any any paladine you meet now is going to be either an old holdover from from Diablo one to uh like from that
25:43
period of time or somebody who is somehow T been is effectively self-taught um there's very few members
25:50
of either of the orders still around which is kind of why instead of seeing
25:55
paladins in Diablo I Crusaders sort of came back into the the the Limelight
26:01
right well because crusaders had been out looking you know 200 years or so again searching for the truth then it
26:07
get it turns out they're like you know oh it turns out this happened and they're like okay what what does that
26:12
mean for our search and that's when the falling star comes down and a crusader hears about it and goes to investigate
26:19
and leads to the events of Diablo I so it's also clear that whatever else happened the Crusaders are not
26:25
particularly interested in teaching anybody anything they're Seekers of truth they're not imparter of Truth they
26:32
don't in fact think they know the truth that's the whole point of being a crusader you're looking for it so sure a
26:38
crusader will pick up an apprentice and teach the apprentice and The Apprentice will eventually be intended to replace
26:44
them uh and some of some of them have didn't get to there's there's less Crusaders now than there was when they
26:50
started out some of them have not been replaced uh the ones that have have continued so you've got this group of a
26:56
couple like maybe less than 200 people who aren't proz they believe in the in
27:01
the Inner Light they believe in zachar room they believe in akarat but they're not teaching it and that's the
27:08
difference the paladins You Know M to them service had a lot to do with spreading the words keep in mind the
27:14
original paladins were created to protect missionaries who were going to go out and spread the word of zachar
27:20
room that was their fundamental original guiding purpose they were there to help spread the word the the Crusaders are
27:27
not here to do that and that's the fundamental difference between paladins and Crusaders Crusaders always have that
27:34
edge of I mean this way of life is the way of life that we want to teach you and Crusaders are yeah you should
27:41
believe in the interl but that's got nothing to do with me I'm looking for something um until I find it I got
27:46
nothing for you it's also it also interestingly enough I think really plays into the uh manifestation of
27:53
powers that that are the difference between the classes too right like when you have the old Paladin orders uh and
28:02
you go back to Diablo II uh there's a lot of like buffing up defenses buffing
28:07
up uh like oh my weapon can hit a Little Bit Stronger um it's not quite the same
28:14
as the Crusader which is very much about the invocation of what they call wrath
28:19
yes and it's because they knew there's corruption at the heart of the order there's corruption and it needs to be
28:25
rooted out we have to find out where it comes from and destroy it that's what they're all about paladins are about in a way
28:33
paladins are about bringing the Inner Light to the lives of of regular people
28:39
they're like I am an example here I am I an example of the faith the Crusader is not here to be an Exemplar of anything
28:45
they're not here to impress you they are here to wipe things out yeah now if you happen to get impressed by the fact that
28:51
they've left a wake of B of demonic forms in their wake as they blow through
28:57
your town that a whole other thing that wasn't their intention they were there to clear out what they needed to clear out on their way to you know the next
29:03
truth or on the way to seek whatever the next piece of justice that they're looking to to to grab is and if you
29:10
happen to like it and maybe you want to become an apprentice cool if not wasn't there wasn't their intentional goal to
29:15
begin with yeah and so in a way um oh bil hack I forgot his name the I'll have
29:22
to go look him up again but the guy that founded the order uh aan
29:28
kind of gave them an impossible task and part of the reason for that is that he was not highly placed in the church he
29:34
was a midlevel cleric he had enough authority to do this but he he did so keep in mind the
29:42
people he selected weren't were themselves not highly placed he went he
29:47
was looking for raw recruits who were the right material to mold into what he wanted but he definitely didn't he
29:54
didn't go to people like being a paladin at that time was a prestige thing if you were Paladin you were considered to be
30:00
the best of the best of the Church of zacharo and that both of the orders competed with each other and that was
30:06
something that he wanted to avoid because that was what was leading to rus' leaving in the first place was the
30:12
Rivalry between factions of the church and he saw that as part of the corruption so he went out and found
30:18
people who were like extremely they were like talented Warriors extremely zealous in an in an internal way and he
30:26
basically directed them away from the paladins he's like I have a special mission for you and he very definitely
30:32
didn't want them to think of themselves as paladins because the paladins were proud the paladins were very you know
30:39
showy like you mentioned the Diablo I stuff the powers of the Paladin were were about being visually impressive
30:46
while also being a Bastion of defense like you were there to defend missionaries you were there to defend
30:51
the faith the the Crusaders were not there to defend the faith in their minds the faith had already failed in terms of
30:58
the organization the Church of zachar room had failed that's why they were going out into the world they were
31:04
leaving traven call the Temple City and exploring the world they were heading off into the jungle in the in the um
31:11
steps of aarod to find what he had been seeking and when they didn't find it
31:16
there they spread out across the world and began looking everywhere they could go and interestingly enough unlike the
31:22
paladins because of how the Crusaders were you sort of steered away from
31:27
becoming Paladin steered away from that competition and for lack of a better term accepted that the faith had failed
31:35
before technically the faith had fully failed uh they remain
31:40
uncorrupted like as a a type of character I guess the best way to put it
31:46
the ideals of the Crusader have never been uh uprooted they've never been
31:52
eroded because they didn't fall to the same thing that some of the other Paladin orders or in fact the churches
31:58
room did as a whole they they have their faith they have their faith in
32:03
themselves uh in whatever you can call it zry or whatever but their undying confidence in their undying cause and
32:11
like you pointed out before they take even if they take on an apprentice when the Crusader dies The Apprentice takes
32:17
up the mantle and continues the cycle there isn't uh this competing effort
32:23
with other Crusaders there isn't this uh competing uh show
32:28
uh to be visually impressive there's no hierarchy there exactly it's just you have you master an apprentice that's it
32:35
yeah and and you accept that you your your faith is your faith is in yourself in the Inner Light as in the original
32:42
teaching and you go forth and find answers to whatever the corruption and bringing light to those Dark Places
32:48
through basically crushing Force against the forces of the Prime evils right or
32:55
corruption in general however you want to phrase it but I think it's interesting that they they remain uncorrupted because they were they were
33:00
sent away exactly and and interestingly enough um while we're talking about this
33:05
there's a third group I'm going to bring up and that group's the Templars the Templar order in in
33:12
sanctuary is very different than anything you might know from other historical settings or video games the
33:18
way it works is we mentioned before there were two orders of paladins there
33:23
were the the uh we just talked about them the Brotherhood of the word and and the protect the word the hand the word
33:31
and the Hand of zachar the hand of zachar room were the ones that were more thoroughly infested with with mephisto's
33:37
followers um because they were the ones who stayed more they stayed in power inside kistan while the while the uh
33:45
Protectors of the word went forth into rakis as part of the sons of rakis uh
33:51
and they ended up in West March and they ended up in in in uh canduras the hand
33:57
of zachar of course any time that a church would get founded the hand of zachar room would send somebody so there
34:03
were members of the hand of zachar room all over the place they were there were members of the hand of zachar room and West March and when the corruption that
34:10
Mesto had spread throughout the uh hand of of throughout the entire zachar room faith became clear and when the hand of
34:16
zachar room showed itself to be full of corrupt figures they weren't you know the paladins that they were supposed to
34:23
be this was like a this was like a knife in the hearts of the ones that were in the hand of zachum that were still loyal
34:30
that were still you know still had their faith hadn't betrayed it and this caused
34:36
essentially the hand of zachar room in the west collapsed uh the ones in the East also collapsed but they collapsed
34:42
after you know various Heroes came to stop the Dark Wanderer the ones in West March who weren't corrupted that after
34:49
the corruption was effectively burned out the ones that were left decided we're this is too ruined we can't call
34:54
ourselves the hand of zachar room anymore we can't be the hand of Zach but we need to do something we and we
35:01
need to protect the we still believe in the Inner Light we still believe in faith but there's corruption in the
35:08
hearts of of anyone if if the hand of zachar room can be corrupted anybody can be corrupted we need a new way to be
35:14
cleansed we need a way to be be purified of our sins and our
35:20
Corruptions and the members of the hakar room that that founded the Templar order
35:25
effectively came up with a way they would torture themselves until they
35:30
broke they essentially became fetell didn't they in that regard way far further than that but yeah they would
35:38
torture their their new incoming members until they broke they they they were basically under the grandmas um the
35:46
grand maester my apologies uh they were kidnapping people just citizens random
35:51
people and they would literally torture them until they broke and forgot their lives like they would just put them into
35:58
like shock and then re-educate them as members of the order and as a result
36:04
every single Templar you met had gone through this the re-education through scoring and whips and all that they had
36:11
essentially forgotten who they were they their lives were gone this was the secret of the Templar order that they
36:18
they' been they'd been trained they they' gained the power of the Holy Light but only after they were essentially
36:24
broken utterly broken so that they didn't even know who they were they didn't even remember their past lives they didn't know who their families were
36:30
anything and so the order was everything to them and the Hope was that they couldn't be corrupted because they
36:37
didn't have anything to be corrupted by yeah and they basically were severing
36:42
all almost all ties to humanity too wasn't there also like it was rumored that this is where the idea that they
36:48
would take vows against like romance and intercourse and marriage and all that other good stuff was never although never confirmed was also part of that
36:55
because then if they didn't have sort of that worldly attack it couldn't be corrupted it was basically the idea I don't know if they actually took vows
37:01
against it so much as they just were never none of that was ever explained to them that you they were never told anything about you know a normal life
37:07
finding a woman anything like that they they didn't have that they they were just your life is this now and they were
37:14
told they were criminals in their previous lives which wasn't true no they were just but that's the exaggeration of
37:20
sin right any random no but I mean any random person off the street could get grabbed but then they were told you were
37:26
a criminal who was sentenced to this yeah you were a Monster who did horrible things and this is our way of making you
37:33
know you can you can atone for your past misdeeds when in many cases they didn't have any misdeeds to to Really atone for
37:40
well and didn't they also refer to them as penitents as well like they weren't even they weren't recruits they weren't abductees they were penitents exactly
37:47
yes uh and the Templar you meet Cormac is has gone through this process as did
37:52
John Dar the person that he himself says you know John Dar betrays the order he
37:57
finds he turns out that Archbishop Lazarus had stolen some documents when he went to canduras to become part of
38:05
the the whole thing with Diablo and when they sent jar to find them jandar read
38:11
them and in reading them realized oh my God they're doing this to us that's like
38:17
when you see johnar in in tristem Cathedral he hasn't he's turned evil
38:23
he's he's because he's given up on any faith in the light Because he believes that what happened to him is you know
38:30
this proves the late doesn't exist this proves that this is all a sham and that's why he went bad uh the W the
38:36
coven was like you know hey join us you know now that you know the truth why serve you know why serve an organization
38:43
that is you know has done this and he was like you're right so in a way we killed johnar we shouldn't have we
38:48
should have like you know but that's the other thing uh the order did not recruit
38:54
women period they only did this to men because they they wanted to make it
38:59
absolutely impossible for them to have children like you know I mean you you
39:04
know full well you can still have romance with it's a bunch of guys that's that's not impossible but they wanted to keep them from having family lives in
39:11
any way shape or form so that was just the Templar order is a real example of
39:16
how how badly Mesto messed up the zachar room because even the ones that weren't
39:22
his servants that weren't affected by him directly that weren't serving him weren't corrupted by him they they were
39:30
so destroyed by what he did that they couldn't come up with anything better than torture random people until they
39:36
decide they believe what you tell them to well I mean it makes a certain amount of sense too right because well I'm not
39:41
saying I'm not going to try to justify because it's still torture and it's awful you're not saying it's good you're
39:47
you can understand how they got there after yeah and I'm making I just want to make sure that Point's clear so if you think about it so what misto did is he
39:53
spent time corrupting essentially the hierarchy of the Church sending away those that would be uncorruptible uh
40:01
making sure that he could basically work unfeathered and then you have these people who are still devoted are not
40:08
corrupted because he focused on the upper levels he focused on like the Council of the zachar room um and those
40:15
would delineate orders down and and so on and so forth and that was more his style which means that the the lowly
40:21
members the ones that were devout or were following the orders and the faith that they had subscri had had ascribed
40:28
to uh when word comes down that the order had been corrupted that everything
40:34
that you had built your life on was destroyed and From the Inside Out
40:39
essentially you start to question your faith you start to question I did this
40:44
because I was told it was right was that before or after the whisperings of a greater evil uh and then you start to
40:52
have an identity crisis of self and so you view yourself at least and I'm putting myself in sort of like their
40:59
their position here you are essentially unsure if you were corrupted or not and
41:05
you look at all of humanity and you realize we all have these things that can be corrupted my love and faith for
41:11
the church for this faith for this organization was used against me and
41:18
essentially made me unclean so now I'm going to basically break myself until I
41:24
can't remember any of that and I'm going to do everybody else the favor of doing that as well because the world still
41:31
needs protecting the world the primevals are still out there their minions are still out there we still have work to do
41:38
we can't abandon that we can't abandon that core part of our faith and identity
41:44
but if we do exactly what we did before it's just going to be corrupted again but if we don't have these attachments
41:50
and if the people we take uh and and push through this they don't have those
41:55
attachments either they don't have the humanity portion where they form those
42:00
connections that can be exploited they become perfect Warriors of protecting the rest of the world and they can go
42:07
out and cleanse and we can go out and cleanse because now we can't be corrupted and again it's not right in
42:13
any way shape or form but it's them justifying how they can keep doing their job because that's all they have yeah
42:20
it's worth mentioning the way that this ultimately happened the corruption that Mesto spread he didn't actually control
42:27
of the church outright until much later like he was seeping forth from the Soul
42:34
Stone and corrupting it from the moment it was put underneath traven call but he didn't actually get control until almost
42:42
like well over a hundred years later maybe more um the the quagan oh I think
42:49
his name is khum khum or khim I'm not sure uh he was kind of a problem for
42:55
misto in that he couldn't be corrupted like he just wouldn't go for it oh yeah Fisto couldn't break him so he had the
43:02
ones that he had control over murder him not just murder him murder and dismember
43:08
him yeah and they replaced him with uh I can't I always can't remember the names
43:13
uh sikur siker siker I think it's siker or siker um I don't think it's s ker it
43:20
sounds like that but son Kore yeah yeah he uh he became the new qua gun and
43:26
misto literally it possessed him misto was inside his body yes they blew they
43:32
blew the Soul Stone up into seven pieces that he gave to his most powerful uh
43:38
servants on the Zach High Council which he also finally corrupted and they created a device a magical orb that they
43:45
used to control others yeah the orb the orb of compelling yeah so that was when
43:52
he finally arranged that that's around the time like several years passed and then they sent Lazarus West with lior to
44:00
do in canduras what what uh Rakim rakis had done in West March but the whole
44:07
real reason that Lazarus was going west was to wake Diablo up because when the uh after the haraj had left misto
44:15
soulstone in kast they went West and eventually beat Diablo and Bal Bal
44:22
unfortunately T Rashia got his soulstone destroyed and so T Rasha decided all
44:28
right we'll confine him in my body so that they that's why ball looks the way he does when you see him he's possessing
44:34
T rasha's body it took ball a long time to corrupt him fully but they they waged a war inside tash's body for c for the
44:42
two centuries the uh rest of them the rest of the Harum went further west
44:47
eventually found and stopped Diablo and then they like okay well we've got a
44:53
small Herod Chantry out here we'll just stick him under that nobody goes there
44:58
so they did that that's the place Lazarus was going misto had finally gained enough control over the the
45:04
zachar room it again it took centuries it wasn't like an immediate thing he didn't like you know boop I'm in charge
45:09
now it took him a long time and that's the whole thing that was concerning aan
45:15
in the first place I find myself wondering if misto was was deliberately doing this to aan to get him to like put
45:22
together an order and send them out into the world and thus get them out of the way I don't doesn't say that in any of
45:27
the lore but I do find myself wondering if that's what was going on because in a way it was absolutely the perfect
45:33
timeing for misto to have to truly devout young members of the church leave
45:38
and go forth on a quest to find the source of the corruption leaving the place where the corruption was the
45:44
source of the corruption was travenol it was there was literally a chamber underneath traven call with a soul Stone
45:49
in it that's where the source of the corruption was that's the place they should have been looking and they looked everywhere else Inus
45:57
you have to wonder if this was not part of his plan I I mean seriously I no nothing says it in any game Source but I
46:05
got I mean someday I wouldn't mind if they did a novel or something talking about a about aon's life if if there was
46:11
at some point that Mesto tried to possess him realized he couldn't possess him and was like well he's not important
46:17
enough to really worry about but I can use this and that's where all that's
46:22
where the order of the Crusaders was originally founded to get rid of people who would be a problem if they stuck around but at any rate that's I think
46:29
that pretty much covers the the three various the all the various holy Warriors of the Church of zachar room
46:34
the paladins Crusaders and the Templars I think that covers all three I believe it does indeed um we have some more time
46:42
left so I guess the question that I would have to ask is now we start looking at things like Diablo Immortal
46:49
and now Diablo 4 coming up and the the question is we'll start with Diablo
46:55
Immortal that's the time between Diablo 2 and 3 what do we think uh if anything
47:00
any of these orders are going to be playing a part of in that moment because go ahead we know that the Crusader is
47:07
playable in Diablo Immortal and since we know that the Crusader is playable and
47:12
since we know the Crusader takes on the name of their predecessor and I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be Crusader
47:18
Johanna there because it looks like in all the art it looks like the exact same Crusader um is that supposed to be the
47:25
the the mentor of the Nephilim Crusader or is it the is it the same Crusader I don't know the answer to that question
47:31
each Crusader does their own thing so it's as an order they don't do anything
47:37
they don't they don't come together there's there's no Army of Crusaders showing up it's one person two at the
47:42
most because their their Apprentice might be with them I think that their is going to be that their role is going to
47:49
be like a solitary figure who's like you know heard about what's happened they may have just heard about the the fall
47:56
of traven call they may be trying to make their way back there to like see what happened um that that's not sure as
48:03
for paladins they're reeling like the hand of zachar room what's left of them is forming the Templars right at this
48:09
moment this is when the Templars are formed so we may get to see the the rise of the grand maester the grand maester
48:16
may have at this time might be some Paladin at the hand of zachar room who's decided to turn against his his former
48:22
Masters and try and save the the order and thus Ates the Templars that that may
48:28
be happening during Diablo Immortal I mean it is happening during Diablo Immortal but we might see it in the game I don't know as the paladins though I
48:35
have no idea like they it's really hard to imagine any of the paladins who aren't like members of some other
48:41
organization like the kns of West March like I I don't I can't really see like any anything for the Protectors of the
48:48
word that the Protectors of the word have been defunct for like a hundred years anyway um so if there's that one random Paladin that happens to be a
48:54
member or or have was taught by somebody who was taught by somebody who was a member that guy's going to stay as a
49:01
paladin but in terms of a group I don't think they they got a future to some someone will need to come along and
49:07
actually reform a new Paladin order for that to happen now as far as moving from the opposite direction cuz it seems like
49:14
we're going to get some potentially some missing pieces maybe in Diablo Immortal which might give some some gedes what
49:20
does a post Diablo I a post malel uh
49:26
world look like for these orders now the Crusaders we know are already you know there's not as many as there used to be
49:33
there's a lower number of them uh we know that the paladins again they're
49:38
there ones that have existed now are probably becoming the Templars or had become the templiers do we think that
49:44
they are a militant Bastion force in this world like it because it's fascinating to me cuz right now in the
49:52
world of Diablo 4 the aftermath humanity is just decimated right we I think it
49:57
was what three quarters of humanity is gone was the was what we were told all something like that was said I
50:03
don't know how true it is right but a large number of folks in the events of Diablo uh throughout the events of
50:10
Diablo I humanity is reeling as well do we think that we now start seeing
50:16
Templar bastions popping up places because well it's safer than the
50:22
alternative do they start to become a militant organization again that has a
50:27
foothold in the world because they can fight back against the creatures and and weird things that are starting to crawl
50:34
out of the the the loom of of sanctuary itself so I mean we know I'm gonna point
50:41
this out Calum and and kistan are gone yes completely gone they they're gone as
50:47
states there is no kistan is a region but there is no Central Authority there is no government uh I think it is fair
50:55
to say that in general like you're not going to find any of the the the nations
51:01
of sanctuary as we knew them are probably all dead like there are places like West March exists canduras exists
51:09
but there's probably absolutely almost no governmental Authority and there's no
51:14
church like the church is the churches exist we've see them in the game there are zakar room churches all over the
51:21
place but there's no church anymore there's no centralized this is a world
51:26
that has completely lost Central Authority if the Templar order still exists and that's a big F because Cormac
51:33
was going to try and reform it but he might have died we don't know what happened to him we don't know what happened to anybody like really if
51:40
there's a if there's a person you knew in Diablo Three they probably died so is
51:45
there is there a Templar order to have bastions is a is an open question if as
51:51
many of them died as everybody else there may not be there may not be any organization to do that on the other
51:56
hand if they enough of them survived and and you know held to their slightly
52:02
altered purpose then there might in fact have risen again there might be a power in the world they you know even if it's
52:09
only as they hold certain places and keep them somewhat settleable you know
52:15
lighting a candle versus cursing to Darkness sort of thing they may have decided to do that it's impossible to say but I do think it would be
52:21
interesting if we see in the future like I I've been arguing from the beginning that the next playable class in Diablo 4
52:28
should be the Templar I would tend to agree and I think it would make the most amount of sense with the way they're going with the story uh at least I I
52:36
shouldn't even say the way they're going with the story the way they're going with the character class reveals so far
52:41
like I mean it may not be they may not do it but I feel like there should be some form of holy Warrior and while I
52:48
like Crusaders and I like paladins I feel like they've been done I almost feel like it would be it would make
52:54
sense to do a class that is all three like that is you could play any of them you could see how you want but I think
53:00
the Templar makes the most sense in terms of they were Central to the events of Diablo I without being playable yeah
53:09
and so it it gives you a way to go back to that original Paladin aesthetic and still have somebody who's more about
53:15
wrath and retribution they could be the Best of Both Worlds yeah and I think it makes the most amount of sense too because when you start factoring in the
53:21
way that Crusaders operate which we talked about earlier in the episode here is because they're not active
53:27
recruiting uh because humanity is now decimated the likelihood of them picking
53:35
up an apprentice has now dropped exponentially from even what it was before and it wasn't really that high to
53:42
begin with so I mean if you think about it if let's say you had 180 so Crusaders
53:49
left and then 80 of them died in one go so now you only have a hundred and now
53:55
there's like less people you know it's it's a self-c compounding problem there's less of them there's more stuff
54:02
to try and fight and stop there's less people to recruit those people are probably terrified not many of them are
54:08
going to want to go forth and join a organization that they see as connected with angels whether or not that's fair
54:15
yeah because I mean and that's the other thing too like how many of the Crusaders abilities involve uh wielding the light
54:20
in holy wings or summoning holy avatars and wielding the light in a manner that
54:26
is is very close to how Angels were seen to be basically wielding things and
54:32
murdering people on West March or wielding things and murdering Humanity in general do you do the people trust that
54:40
and I think that's a really interesting point because one of the one of the things in storytelling at least as far
54:46
as like uh classic uh horror tales and and and folklore is that it it's not the
54:54
ghosts it's not the demons that to be the worst problem you can make Wards
54:59
against them you can wield holy weapons and light against them it's Humanity
55:04
that tends to be a bigger problem because if you're a crusader and an entire town turns against you do you
55:11
murder that town is that part of your Creed are you allowed to slaughter Innocents like that when all they are is
55:19
afraid because you will the light so close to what destroyed the world and depending on how many years after Diablo
55:25
I is uh after Diablo 3 occurred when the events of Diablo 4 take place how much
55:31
of those stories have morphed and and modified through oral tradition or even
55:36
written Tradition at this point in the various places where Humanity still calls home we've seen from the various
55:44
things inside of game even from Decker Kane's Recollections and the Book of tyal and the Book of of of Cain and and
55:51
all that stuff that sometimes perception doesn't necessarily meet reality
55:56
because the person writing that book only has a very specific point of view and somebody who lived through West
56:03
March and wrote about it they're probably going to have a pretty damning point of view as far as Angels go uh you
56:10
don't know how that affects things because think about us as people right us as a culture how many stories were we
56:17
told by our parents or grandparents or family or ancestors that colored how we
56:22
live and make choices every day in a World devastated like that I can already
56:28
see things being shifting based off of what stories are passed down like yeah
56:34
there could have been like the story of one town where or one area of the world where they saw the Crusader fight
56:40
against the the forces of of the heavens itself that they know that not
56:46
everything is uh dark and twisted and corrupted and then there's others that may have never seen that fighter they
56:53
may have never been part and parcel to it but they saw their loved ones get burned up in Flames they saw demons and
56:59
angels come for them and they survived and then told everybody about how awful it was it it paints a whole different
57:06
world and that's the other thing that I think is going to be really interesting too is if the Templars become the
57:11
playable class which I agree I think uh I think you make a very good point that they seem to be the next uh they would
57:17
make the most logical sense as far as having that Holy Warrior that sort of fits all of the the past uh pieces that
57:25
came before it uh especially if the order is reborn if Cormac Never Dies if
57:30
he doesn't die if he survives gets back takes the Templars cleans up the order makes them reborn maybe they replace it
57:39
maybe they work to you know sort of restore a little bit of that faith
57:44
become that militant arm uh and become that Bastion against the darkness there's a lot of interesting things that
57:50
could happen as a result of it and I actually think that the uh paladins and Crusaders are at least to me some of my
57:58
favorite classes from Diablo in the past where their lore is is very complicated
58:05
and Rich and touched with all parts of everything that really makes Diablo Diablo right their order is touched by
58:11
the heavens touched by the hells uh faced with corruption rooted in humanity
58:17
it's a very Sanctuary story uh you know and I think that's absolutely
58:23
fascinating and I think it's really cool and I hope that we get another another continuation of that or or at least more
58:30
of that into the future whether it's nuggets of of information inside of Diablo Immortal that fill in sort of the
58:36
gaps that are there or or in Diablo 4 where we get to see what happened to those orders what happened to the zachar
58:42
room Faith uh in the aftermath of Diablo I because again I think it'd be a very
58:47
fascinating story to uh is there anything else you want to add to this wonderful episode of of information that
58:53
you gave us Rossy to a little part now and I'd like to stop talking so well that's perfectly fair but thank
59:00
you very much and uh honestly thank you for filling in a lot of those gaps um I'm learning as much as some of our
59:06
listeners uh because as much as I love Diablo it's definitely my weakest blizzard IP uh as far as lore goes uh so
59:14
thank you very much for that uh blizzard StarCraft one amazing I actually know
59:20
more about Starcraft than I do Diablo surprisingly I know less about Starcraft and Diablo so you're be doing that for
59:25
us indeed uh but blizzard watch is made possible due to the generous contributions at patreon.com
59:31
blizzardwatch your continued support means this podcast site and Community is able to thrive and grow blizzard watch reporters enjoy exclusive benefits like
59:38
early access to the podcast the better chance at having your question answered on our podcast or the queue and an that's fre sight experience uh again
59:44
folks if you have questions for us please send them in uh you can send them to podcast at blizzard watch.com U to
59:51
specify which show it is for uh you can also send them in through through Discord where we do have a channel set
59:59
aside for patreon supporters uh it's patreon q and podcast questions go ahead
1:00:04
and throw them in there and if you can't support us on patreon which we understand times are tough for everybody
1:00:10
uh we do have a Q questions channel in the Discord as well which we do look to
1:00:16
um we didn't get a whole lot of questions this week I'm wondering if you guys were just anticipating as much as I was continuing the Diablo talk but if
1:00:23
you want to take a break from that and ask us some other questions we're well open to it uh be sure to send them into to us but with that thank you very much
1:00:31
we'll see you next week [Music]
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