Up next in 10
The lore of the games from Remedy and how the two series Alan Wake and Control are linked is the topic of this week's Lore Watch Podcast. Both games are about events that shift from what the main characters know to be true, into something which couldn't possibly be true, if what they already knew to be true was real. Both games have a sense of wrongness and eerieness — Alan Wake's is more weird, like Twin Peaks, while Control's veers into horror.
Joe and Matt unpack the plots of both series as individual works, and then delve into the mysteries and themes that connect them.
Subscribe to Lore Watch in your podcast player for more video game lore:
* RSS: https://feeds.acast.com/public/shows/6556539150cd070012089193
* Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/lore-watch-podcast/id1023224738
* Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1CIJRbwbEVQfCg8r94HCwO
Visit us at https://blizzardwatch.com for the latest news on Blizzard games, and don't forget to subscribe on Patreon to support our efforts! https://www.patreon.com/blizzardwatch
Discord: https://discord.gg/MY9p4d7t8U
Bluesky: @blizzardwatch.com
Show More Show Less View Video Transcript
0:04
[music]
0:10
Hello and welcome to Lore Watch, your
0:12
round table freehorn discussion about
0:14
lore in your favorite media. I'm your
0:16
host Joe Perez, one of several lore
0:18
focused folks from Blizzard Watch. And
0:19
I've got my marvelous co-host with me
0:21
today, Matt Rossley. How you doing
0:22
today, Matt?
0:23
>> I'm buried in a strange refrigerator and
0:26
you got to watch me at all times.
0:28
[laughter]
0:30
Uh well, if you understood that
0:32
reference, you'll probably know what
0:33
we're talking about today. Uh if you
0:35
don't, well, we're going to be talking
0:36
about the remedy universe, which was
0:39
actually a recommendation from one of
0:41
you, our wonderful listeners, uh in
0:43
which you were very interested in uh
0:45
sort of the story around the remedy
0:48
universe and basically what you should
0:50
know going into uh into it. So, we'll
0:52
we're going to do that today. But if you
0:55
have uh a question for us or a topic you
0:57
want us to cover, just want to let you
0:59
know that you can go ahead and send
1:00
those in. Uh it's podcast
1:02
blizzardwatch.com. Specify the show that
1:04
your name. Uh if you want to hit us up
1:06
on Discord, we have several channels set
1:08
aside. We have the Q and Podcast
1:09
question channel open for everyone. Same
1:12
rules apply. And then we also have the
1:15
patron Q and podcast questions channel
1:17
where we tend to look there first as a
1:19
way of saying thank you for helping us
1:20
keep the lights on. So yeah, we're going
1:23
to be talking about in particular uh two
1:26
games from uh video game maker uh remedy
1:29
or two game franchises uh which is Alan
1:33
Wake and Control uh which uh Alan Wake
1:37
kind of started a whole thing where
1:40
there were hints and and and little tiny
1:42
bits that maybe Remedy's games were all
1:45
part of a big universe. Remedy was also
1:47
one of the brains or the brain behind
1:49
Max Payne and that game series. Although
1:51
we don't have confirmation that Max Pain
1:53
is part of it, there are inklings that
1:55
there might be there's something there.
1:58
Um, and then
1:59
>> yeah, it's tinfoil hat for you guys. Uh,
2:01
before we get into this, I think Max
2:04
Payne is a series of novels written by
2:06
Alan Wake. I that's what the the most
2:08
people do think because and we'll talk
2:10
about this because it's it's sort of
2:12
part and parcel and central to uh
2:14
central to this. Um it wasn't until
2:19
controls expansion AWE control a uh came
2:23
out that we got confirmation that the
2:25
this was a connected universe. So, a lot
2:28
of this is still us learning. But let's
2:30
talk about Max Payne or not Max Payne.
2:34
Let's talk about Alan Wake and why we
2:37
think that Alan Wake may be the writer
2:39
behind Max Payne. Um, would you like to
2:43
start, Matt?
2:43
>> Sure. Um, Alan Wake is a writer who is
2:46
having a significant problem that no
2:47
other writer would ever understand,
2:49
namely that he was unable to write uh
2:52
for like two years. Shocking. None of us
2:54
can understand how that feels. Um
2:56
anyway, he his wife convinced him to go
2:59
to a wellness retreat in a place called
3:03
Cascade Falls. It's Cascade Falls,
3:04
right?
3:05
>> Uh I don't think it was Cascade Falls. I
3:08
think it was Brightall.
3:09
>> Bright Falls. Okay. Yeah. I places in
3:12
Washington. Not Not my forte. Um but
3:15
Bright Falls. Um Hartman. I I the name
3:18
of this man eludes me every time. But
3:21
Dr. Hartman, I think of his Hartman. It
3:22
was something with an H. I know that
3:24
much cuz I literally just was just
3:25
thinking about it. He had this this
3:28
retreat uh at the lake where artists
3:30
could come who were having trouble uh
3:32
being creative or having personal
3:34
difficulties or anything of that sort.
3:37
And upon getting there, uh things
3:40
started to happen that were really kind
3:42
of weird. And eventually Allan found
3:45
himself, you know, running away from
3:47
monsters with a flashlight, his only
3:49
real defense. um as he found he could
3:52
use the flashlight to render these
3:54
strange shadow things vulnerable so he
3:57
could shoot them which is what he spent
4:00
a lot of time doing during the game. All
4:02
of this came out as this entity in in
4:05
the darkness uh I think they called it
4:08
something just like the darkness or the
4:10
dark one or something.
4:11
>> Yeah, the darkness.
4:13
>> Yeah. And it was reaching out and
4:14
Hartman knew. Hartman was was aware of
4:17
this. I don't remember if the original
4:19
game actually tells us that or if I'm
4:22
pulling
4:23
>> Hartman Hartman we don't know is privy
4:26
to this until we get the Awe expansion.
4:28
Um okay and that's confirm. Yeah. Go
4:31
ahead.
4:31
>> Yeah. I because I I was literally just
4:34
looking at the AW expansion. So, a lot
4:35
of this stuff is coming from that lens,
4:37
and I apologize. But throughout the
4:39
thing, he's trying to get his wife out
4:42
of the area because everyone else is
4:44
trapped there, and these shadow things
4:47
are murdering people and taking over
4:48
their bodies and doing all sorts of
4:49
horrible stuff. And he eventually
4:51
manages to do it by kind of realizing he
4:54
can use his creativity to change what's
4:58
happening. Like, but it's not it's not
5:01
easy, nor is it perfect, nor can he just
5:03
write and then they left Earth for no
5:05
reason.
5:07
Like, he isn't like he can't just
5:09
sweepingly hand to God them out of the
5:11
way. He has to use what's there. Like,
5:14
he's already seen things happening. He
5:16
already knows what what's going on to a
5:18
degree. So, he can kind of plunk away at
5:21
it, but he can't just Right. And then
5:24
everything was fine because that's not a
5:26
good narrative. Like if you sat down and
5:27
read a story where horrible monsters
5:28
were attacking it down and then the book
5:30
ended with but then everything was okay.
5:33
You wouldn't buy it and he needs people
5:35
to buy it. There has to be the emotional
5:38
buyin. So he ends up trapping himself
5:40
but getting her out. Uh this is an
5:43
incredible broad strokes thing I'm doing
5:45
here guys cuz it's it's a long game and
5:47
quite frankly you should go play it. Uh
5:50
it would explain all this much better
5:52
than I'm doing. But the basic premise is
5:54
laid down that there's there's a world
5:57
somewhat adjacent to ours that can bleed
6:00
through and stuff that bleeds through
6:03
can change things in our world. But we
6:06
can kind of change them back. Not
6:09
literally change them back, but in
6:11
return we can exert pressure on them.
6:14
And that's that's in the basis of the
6:17
story, but it is it is very first steps,
6:20
toes in the water type stuff. Yeah. And
6:22
a lot of it a lot of it is is looking at
6:26
Alan Wake uh as sort of like the first
6:29
attempts at like breaching the topic of
6:32
there being something more something uh
6:36
heavier to it. So like Max Pain was a
6:39
relatively and I say relatively
6:40
straightforward a relatively
6:42
straightforward story of you know a
6:45
detective who's you know family is
6:48
murdered and he winds up going on this
6:50
revenge spree uh with his weird Bruce
6:54
Willis looking face on top of the the
6:56
weird 3D model. Um
6:58
>> yeah and and although it's really the
7:00
face of the guy who basically wrote
7:02
everything.
7:03
>> It is
7:04
>> hilarious. But I I also think it's
7:06
interesting to point out that Max Payne
7:08
has nothing overtly supernatural going
7:10
on.
7:11
>> No, except for the bullet time.
7:12
>> Overtly. Yeah. But but there are hints
7:16
like for instance, Max Payne should have
7:18
died like way before the last game. You
7:21
know what I mean? Like it's there is no
7:23
reasonable way a man who is on as much
7:26
as many painkillers as this man has to
7:28
take to just move around by the last
7:31
game. He that's not possible.
7:33
>> Yeah. And there's there's a lot of hints
7:34
in that that it's from the basically the
7:37
effect of his own will uh that he's
7:40
essentially surviving or pushing through
7:42
it because he hasn't had his revenge
7:44
yet. Uh but then when you get to Alan
7:46
Wake uh this is the first overtly
7:50
supernatural thing that is really just
7:53
in your face. Uh but even then it's
7:56
presented in a way that you're not sure
7:59
that it is legitimately supernatural or
8:02
if it is something that's taking place
8:04
in Allen's mind. Cuz part of the other
8:06
thing is
8:07
>> um a lot of it has to do a lot of it has
8:10
to do with Allen and his wife uh like
8:13
discussing his stress levels and even
8:16
before then him seeing things that
8:18
aren't necessarily there. Like one of
8:19
the first things you do uh as you're on
8:21
the ferry to this remote location, you
8:24
see somebody on the ferry uh that
8:27
apparently your wife just can't see. Um
8:30
and then when you get to the town,
8:32
everything is just a little bit off. And
8:35
it's not necessarily,
8:38
you know, that this is, oh, this person
8:40
has a third eye or this person is
8:42
translucent. It's something ain't right.
8:46
just the the you know the woman uh that
8:48
you get your the house keys from is a
8:50
great example. Um right because when you
8:52
get to Bright Falls, Alen goes to get
8:55
the keys and a map uh to the rented
8:57
cabin uh from a man named Carl Stucky uh
9:00
who's supposed to be the car uh the
9:01
cabin's landlord. Uh but instead he gets
9:04
to this old woman that's got some like
9:07
bruha vibes going on uh that tells him
9:10
that Stucky has fallen ill and she was
9:12
entrusted to give Allen the keys. seems
9:15
really weird. Um, kind of, you know, not
9:18
what he expected. And this is when, uh,
9:22
she directs them to Allan and and his
9:25
wife Alice to a cabin on an island in
9:27
the middle of Cauldron Lake, a volcanic
9:29
crater lake. Uh, and then as they
9:32
unpack, they find that Alice has
9:33
arranged a trip to help break his
9:35
writer's block. Uh, arranging for him to
9:37
see the bright fall psychologist named
9:39
Dr. Emil Hartman. Because at this point,
9:42
it wasn't uh Alice and uh Barry, who is
9:45
his agent and long-term friend, who told
9:48
him that he needed to take a vacation,
9:50
uh that were going to go see uh Emil
9:52
Hartman. It was this woman who put the
9:55
idea into the head. And then, of course,
9:57
you know, Alice is like, "Well, maybe
9:58
this would be a great idea." Um and that
10:01
Dr. Emil Hartman uh left behind a
10:05
typewriter in the cabin for him
10:08
specifically. And that becomes important
10:10
later because this is our first inkling
10:13
that
10:15
the typewriter might be more than it
10:19
appears to be. And this ties in with
10:22
some of those themes that that Matt
10:23
talked about where, you know, things
10:25
come into our world and they can exert
10:28
pressure or have a a monochrome of of of
10:31
power over reality. They're often tied
10:34
to objects. We don't learn about this
10:37
until the second game, but the in the
10:38
the the groundwork is being laid here.
10:41
And as Allan starts writing on the
10:45
typewriter or tries doing anything like
10:48
that, uh that's when he learns that
10:50
there's this ability that he has through
10:52
this to sort of exert uh some control
10:55
over the narrative. And again, like Matt
10:57
said, it's not that he can just write,
10:58
oh, Alice is back and everything is
11:00
fine. Uh because that's not a good
11:03
narrative. instead he has to tell a
11:05
story and it has to be a compelling
11:08
story um that involves essentially the
11:12
town and rescuing his wife and uh those
11:16
from this this the darkness from this I
11:18
think it's the dark entity um it's it's
11:21
a fascinating
11:23
uh game and a fascinating story
11:25
especially for the time in which the
11:27
game was released uh which was 2010 back
11:31
on the Xbox 360
11:33
uh And during that time, uh, survival
11:36
horror games were everywhere and but
11:39
they were all leaning towards more of a
11:41
Resident Evil 4 style action combat
11:44
like, uh, yeah, there are these big
11:46
monsters, but you got a shotgun, so
11:48
you're going to go to town on it. Here,
11:50
instead, it was, no, you're trapped in a
11:52
nightmare, and your only weapon is
11:56
light. Whether it is you fixing
11:58
generators, you turning uh street lights
12:02
on, or like Matt pointed out, the use of
12:04
a flashlight and making sure you have
12:06
ample batteries for it. Um, your boss
12:09
fights are stripping the armor, the
12:11
darkness out of these people that have
12:13
been infected by this uh this entity
12:17
that by this this thing. Um, and it's
12:21
it's a very like a return to the
12:24
original like tank controls of survival
12:28
horror. And it was so much more focused
12:31
on the narrative and the story than
12:33
other games at the time that it really
12:36
just it it felt like a complete
12:38
experience. uh the town itself, the
12:41
characters, everything that you interact
12:42
with during the waking hours, not when
12:44
you're in the nightmare, um also have a
12:47
very distinct personality. Uh and after
12:50
you have the first set of nightmares,
12:52
you as a character in basically as a
12:56
person imprinted on Allen at this point
12:58
are questioning who's real and who's
13:00
not, what's real, what's not, who's in
13:03
on the horror of it and who's not. Uh,
13:05
and has a very
13:07
>> Yeah. There's a real feeling of is is
13:10
this all actually happening or is Allen
13:11
running around killing his neighbors?
13:13
>> Yeah. And
13:14
>> and it is it is weird and disturbing and
13:18
I almost want to say it's like almost
13:20
psychoactive. Uh, it kind of is very
13:22
much. Yeah.
13:24
>> So, go ahead. I'm sorry.
13:25
>> No, no, you're you're fine. I was going
13:26
to say the the other thing is that um I
13:29
think it's also very reminiscent of uh
13:31
TV shows like Twin uh Twin Peaks. Um,
13:35
>> yeah, it's it is extremely twin piecy.
13:37
>> Yeah, it's very twins peak twin peaks
13:39
coded. Um, which is not a bad thing. And
13:41
I'm not saying that as a criticism. I'm
13:44
saying that is it's almost like a
13:45
logical next step because Twin Peaks had
13:48
been off the air for a number of years
13:49
at this point. Um, it was a logical next
13:52
step in like that type of of
13:54
storytelling. Um,
13:56
>> plus I mean, let's be upfront here. Uh
13:59
there there are there are stories going
14:01
way before Twin Peaks was ever even a
14:04
glimmer that have a similar format and
14:07
of all you know I I've in the past I've
14:09
said some derogatory things about his
14:11
writing as a writer but one of the best
14:14
Lovecraft stories of all time is the
14:16
color out of space and it is literally
14:18
just the story of a family going insane
14:22
because there's a color they can't
14:24
understand. Like it's not any of the
14:26
colors we've ever heard of. It's just
14:28
some other color. That's all. That's all
14:31
it is. It's It doesn't even seem to have
14:33
a personality. And that's like a really
14:35
big
14:36
>> inspiration in my opinion or like some
14:39
Ramsy Campbell stuff. Just that feeling
14:41
of
14:42
>> horror in a way that you know, it's it's
14:45
not just about monsters coming to get
14:47
you. It's about am I even experiencing?
14:50
Is this real? How real? Am I you know,
14:53
where are we mentally? And and it's
14:57
really that kind of story. Is it is it
14:59
inspired by Twin Peaks? Absolutely. But
15:02
just because Twin Peaks is one of its
15:04
inspirations doesn't mean it doesn't
15:05
have others or that it doesn't go its
15:07
own unique way. Because in a lot of
15:10
ways, this is a much more normal place.
15:13
Yeah.
15:13
>> Like this is this is what happens when
15:16
this stuff starts happening in a normal
15:19
town where people are weird people. But
15:21
people are weird everywhere. It's not
15:23
these people aren't like now should you
15:25
come into my house of pies I will give
15:28
you a slice of doom. These are people
15:30
who are just you know hey you go down
15:32
you you go to town you go to the
15:34
restaurant and then at night time
15:35
suddenly you're being chased through the
15:37
streets by by the same things. It it is
15:41
it is balanced pretty much right up to
15:43
the end on a nice edge of you know am I
15:45
re you know is this is Allen insane? Is
15:49
is this happening? is can the two both
15:52
be true? You know, so there is there's a
15:55
lot to it and it's very hard. There's
15:57
not a lot plot-wise. Like we've we've
15:59
told you the plot.
16:00
>> Well, and there's
16:01
>> we've told you what happens, but there's
16:02
so much character stuff and there is
16:05
more that happens with this too. I think
16:06
that I think is important because it the
16:09
the story ramps up as far as like the
16:12
supernaturalness of it, which I think is
16:14
sort of the important part. You get the
16:16
hints of it, you get the inkling of it.
16:18
Um, and you get that that question of of
16:20
Allen's sanity. Uh, but as the game goes
16:23
on, uh, you know, things are getting
16:26
worse and worse and more more obvious.
16:28
Like when he gets to the cabin, him and
16:31
Alice are unpacking. He sees the the
16:33
typewriter. He gets mad. He hears Alice
16:35
scream. He runs outside. He sees Alice
16:38
being taken into the lake uh, by an
16:40
entity. He dives in after her and wakes
16:43
up a week later. uh you know with the
16:46
the and I'm going to air quote memory
16:48
that he crashed his car into the lake.
16:51
Um and then becomes it becomes this
16:54
thing where he's trying to find Alice.
16:56
He's trying to go through um and then he
16:59
has got but he doesn't have any memory
17:01
how he really got there. Um and then as
17:05
he tries to like this is where the
17:07
shadowy figures come in. Uh after waking
17:10
up from that that car crash so to speak.
17:13
Uh that's where he tries to get to a gas
17:15
station, but it happens to be at night.
17:17
And these shadowy figures, uh, you know,
17:19
resembling that things that he's dreamt
17:21
about before start coming after him.
17:24
They start, you know, glitching all over
17:26
the place. Uh, you fight them off with
17:28
the light. Um, and then you get to see
17:32
what this like again like this this
17:34
little thing that you're not sure if
17:36
it's real or not. A shadowy ethereal
17:38
figure in a diving suit. um which leaves
17:42
uh behind a manuscript entitled
17:44
departure which was ostensibly written
17:47
by Allen uh of which he has no memory
17:50
writing. Uh he then as he's reading
17:52
through the manuscript uh realizes that
17:55
the events of it are starting to come
17:58
through um and that people in the town
18:01
are becoming possessed by this dark
18:03
force. Uh he winds up killing uh the
18:06
possessed Carl Stucky uh reaching the
18:08
gas station. uh he tries to get the the
18:12
sheriff Sarah Baker which uh Breaker I
18:14
believe which comes up and later in
18:16
control um of his wife's disappearance
18:19
but states that there's been no island
18:21
or cabin in Cauldron Lake for years
18:24
after it was sunk following a volcanic
18:26
eruption years prior. Uh Ellen is taken
18:29
to a police station and then that's
18:30
where Barry uh arrives in Bright Falls
18:32
in search of him. Barry being the only
18:34
person who believes him and what's going
18:36
on. Um Allan gets a call from his wife's
18:40
kidnapper demanding uh the pages of
18:43
departure in exchange for her. They meet
18:45
at a nearby national park uh where he
18:48
witnesses the kidnapper at the mercy of
18:50
the mysterious old woman. Uh the one
18:53
that he, you know, that Allan got the
18:56
keys from that he never actually had
18:58
Alice. Uh, and then Allan and the person
19:02
who claims to be the kidnapper are then
19:04
attacked by this dark tornado which
19:06
hurls Allen into Cauldron Lake. Uh, then
19:08
he wakes up in the the cabin overlooking
19:12
the lake in the car care of Hartman, Dr.
19:14
Hartman, who claims that Allen is
19:15
suffering a psychotic break uh with a
19:18
supernatural phenomenon being like again
19:20
his figments of his imagination. But
19:22
again, all these shadowy figures keep
19:24
coming uh coming through. Um and it's
19:27
all this this big web that starts to
19:29
unweave that the uh fake kidnapper was
19:32
employed by Hartman to lure Allen in. Um
19:35
Dr. Hartman keeps trying to stop Allen
19:37
from escaping uh and gives the person
19:39
that he's aware of the supernatural
19:41
events surrounding the lake. Uh and then
19:43
you realize that the thing in the lake
19:45
is this dark presence who uh has tried
19:49
to essentially escape its confinement
19:51
before uh using in this case Thomas
19:54
Zayn, the figure in a diving suit who
19:56
was a poet who was lured here uh and
19:59
that used and uses the typewriter uh but
20:02
with Zayn able to resist its will and
20:04
using the writings to cause that same
20:06
volcanic eruption that sank the island
20:08
exh stranding himself within the lake.
20:12
Uh but the dark presence keeps growing
20:14
and starts to influence the town's
20:15
people and uh and create the forces that
20:17
have basically harried Allen. Uh and
20:20
then as Allen and Barry take shelter,
20:23
they get drunk on moonshine and Allen
20:25
starts to recall memories of being
20:27
forced to write departure during the
20:29
prior week, realizing that the dark
20:32
presence is trying to use his writings
20:34
to escape its confinement within the
20:37
lake and is using Alice as a bargaining
20:39
chip to coersse him.
20:42
And this is like the only things that
20:44
again because you're still not sure at
20:46
this point if it's real or not. Um it's
20:49
very very it's again very twins piy
20:54
uh early 2000s. Uh and then it ends with
20:58
essentially um Allan completing
21:02
departure freeing Alice but strands
21:05
himself in the dark place in the
21:07
process. Uh, finishing Departure, the
21:11
last line of the game is, "It's not a
21:13
lake, it's an ocean." Realizing that the
21:17
lake allowed it to essentially grow
21:19
large enough that it could exert
21:21
control, he made essentially the body of
21:23
water even larger and the island even
21:26
more isolated to keep it from being able
21:29
to easily lure others into it. Um, again
21:33
this big noble sacrifice that he did as
21:36
as part of the writing. Uh, it is again
21:40
I love the game. It's one of my favorite
21:42
games because of the way the story is
21:43
presented. And again, you're still left
21:47
with this idea that you're not sure even
21:50
at the end. You're not sure if it is a
21:53
real thing or not. That if Allen
21:56
actually did this or if Allen even
21:58
exists, if that makes sense. Because
22:01
Allan being stuck in the dark place no
22:03
longer on this world if that makes
22:05
sense.
22:06
>> I mean I don't want to just say it makes
22:08
sense because part of the narrative is
22:10
to be anti-sense. Uh it is it's very
22:13
much an exploration of what happens if
22:16
you don't if it doesn't matter what's
22:18
really happening.
22:19
>> Like his whole perspective becomes fixed
22:22
on I'm not going to act as if you know
22:25
I'm not going to spend all my time
22:26
trying to figure out what's really
22:28
happening. I'm gonna do something
22:29
because to not do something would be
22:31
worse. I mean, that's the whole deal
22:32
with him trying to finish the book to
22:34
get Alice out. It's more important that
22:37
he do it whether or not this is really
22:39
happening. He It's more important that
22:40
he try to make the effort to get Alice
22:42
out just in case it's happening. Like
22:45
that's the more important thing. And
22:46
that's actually something I think
22:47
Control does really well is to deal
22:49
with. It's like, you know, what does all
22:52
this stuff mean? What what are we
22:53
dealing with? Uh, do you want to move
22:55
into that or do you have more you want
22:56
to talk about Alan Lee on? Because it's
22:57
a good game.
22:58
>> It is a very good game, but I think now
23:00
we need to talk about control and and
23:02
how it sort of what control is, what it
23:05
represents and presents, how it changes
23:07
the story and how it starts to tie in
23:11
Allen Wake into a confirmed larger
23:13
universe before we talk briefly about
23:16
Alen Wake 2.
23:18
>> Um, Control is the one I've played the
23:20
most. Uh,
23:22
>> one of my top 10 games of all time, by
23:23
the way. Yeah, it's a very It's very
23:25
good. It is. It It masquerades as a
23:29
first person shooter and it kind of I
23:31
mean maybe a third person shooter. Yeah,
23:33
third person shooter.
23:34
>> Yeah,
23:34
>> it masquerades as a third person
23:36
shooter, but it's it's it's not
23:38
>> it's not that it isn't a good shooter.
23:41
>> It's just like calling
23:44
>> Yeah, calling it a shooter is like
23:45
calling Mass Effect a shooter. Do you
23:46
shoot things? Yes. That doesn't make it
23:48
a shooter. Um, Control is about a woman
23:51
named Jesse Feden or Feden.
23:54
>> Feden sometime. And that comes back. I'm
23:56
going to reference why it's very
23:58
important I pronounce that correctly.
23:59
She and her brother were in something.
24:02
There was a disaster in their hometown
24:04
of Ordinary, which you know, we're kind
24:07
of getting into the like, you know, you
24:09
know, uh, Hideio Khajima levels of
24:10
naming things here when the town's named
24:13
Ordinary. Uh, but regardless, something
24:16
really horrible happened. Uh she and her
24:19
parents, like pretty much all the adults
24:20
in town got got killed during this
24:24
disaster. Her brother seems to have been
24:26
taken away by a mysterious agency and
24:30
she was left alone. Um and basically
24:33
kind of on the run for the next like I
24:36
want to say 15 to 20 years. Uh it it's
24:40
it's long enough in the future that
24:41
she's a fully grown adult when you you
24:43
see her as the protagonist of the game.
24:46
Uh she's basically been trying to find
24:47
her brother Dylan ever since because
24:50
[clears throat] they she's not sure what
24:51
even happened. Like she has memories but
24:53
she's not sure they're real because, you
24:56
know, everyone's been telling her that
24:57
she made this up for literal years. Like
25:00
she's been as she's been trying to piece
25:02
it all together, she's been going to
25:03
like see therapists and psychiatrists
25:05
and they've been basically gaslighting
25:07
her. Uh which comes up later as why that
25:10
was happening. So, she finally pieces
25:12
together enough and she's got this voice
25:14
in her head that she calls uh Oh, no,
25:16
it's not that. It's Polaris. She calls
25:18
it Polaris. It has another name. It'll
25:20
you'll you'll hear later, but and her
25:22
and Polaris it it's she calls like she's
25:25
she calls it Polaris because it's her
25:26
north star. It's like her conscience or
25:29
something, but not it is a separate
25:30
being, but she listens to it. She like
25:33
lets it guide her from time to time. And
25:35
sometimes it she hasn't heard from it
25:37
for years. Sometimes she hears from it
25:38
again like several times and then
25:40
doesn't hear from it again. But at this
25:42
point, the opening of the game, she has
25:45
been led to a big, you know, brutalist
25:48
structure in New York uh that turns out
25:51
to be the headquarters for something
25:53
called the Federal Bureau of Control,
25:55
the FBC.
25:56
>> We will learn it. We will learn that it
25:57
is called the oldest house.
26:00
>> Yeah. Uh but but the building itself is
26:02
this huge brutalist thing that you would
26:04
not want to pay a lot of attention. And
26:06
that's also on purpose.
26:08
>> Hiding in plain sight.
26:09
>> Yeah. The building it's in is as boring,
26:12
stark, and you know, just un whimsical
26:16
as as could be imagined. If you look at
26:19
this thing, you're going to think that
26:20
that is not a place you particularly
26:22
care about. And that's by design because
26:24
as Joe points in, when Jesse goes
26:26
inside, the first thing she notices that
26:28
she can't find anybody.
26:30
>> Well, she's like, "There's one person."
26:32
>> Well, yeah, we're getting to that. She's
26:33
like, "Where where are everyone? Where
26:34
are the the people who work here? Where
26:36
are the where are the people who are
26:37
asking me why I'm here? Like what's
26:39
what's the deal? And then she stumbles
26:41
upon the the maintenance guy, the
26:44
janitor.
26:45
>> Yeah. Ai. Um and AI is a I don't want to
26:49
say strange.
26:50
>> It's almost idiosyncratic.
26:52
>> I would say AI is like normal, which he
26:56
shouldn't be able to be. Like his being
26:58
as normal as he is is abnormal. It it
27:01
there's Why isn't he weirder? Why? And
27:05
everything he says is just this side of
27:08
like an odd way to speak. The speaking
27:11
isn't odd, but the fact that you go,
27:13
"Hey, where is everyone?" He goes, "Oh,
27:15
you should go talk to the director. I
27:16
think your interview's up." And you're
27:18
like, "My interview with the director."
27:20
Okay. You go to the director's office.
27:24
Director is stone cold dead on the floor
27:27
and you're like, "Okay,
27:29
what's that? What's Why is there a dead
27:31
body there? Wait, wait, what's
27:33
happening? Um, I think this is where he
27:36
get she gets the service weapon, right?
27:38
>> Yeah. So, this is because it's Director
27:40
Trench who's who's dead here. And this
27:42
is where Jesse uh discovers
27:44
>> Zachariah Trench, by the way. Zachariah.
27:46
Put that name in there. Zachariah
27:47
Trench. That's his name. And nobody
27:48
else's names get any better.
27:50
>> Yeah. Um, where she finds the uh the
27:53
service weapon uh which is we will come
27:57
to find out uh something called an
27:58
object of power. Uh she's wind up
28:01
getting transported to an astral plane
28:03
where she completes a ritual and is
28:05
selected as the new director by the
28:08
board uh which is a paranal entity that
28:10
guides the bureau from the shadows. Um
28:13
where she comes out of Trench's office
28:14
discovers that the oldest house has been
28:16
invaded by a hostile force known as the
28:19
H. Uh which possesses the bureau's
28:22
agents and corrupts the building's
28:23
shifting topography. Cuz yes, while this
28:26
building is very boring, normal from the
28:28
outside, uh it is essentially a pocket
28:31
dimension in which uh the rooms and
28:34
everything else can be shifted and moved
28:36
around uh at whatever its whim is. It
28:39
almost has a personality of its own
28:41
because I don't think they've ever
28:42
confirmed this, but it's almost like the
28:43
building itself is an object of power.
28:45
>> Yeah. Or an actual entity.
28:47
>> Or an entity. It might be the paranal
28:49
entity. Um
28:50
>> Yeah. And there's actually something
28:52
else interesting about this. I don't
28:54
want to interrupt you.
28:55
>> No, please.
28:56
>> Um, as you travel through the oldest
28:58
house, uh, one of the things that comes
29:01
up and and some of this is from the
29:03
first expansion, the foundation. And so
29:05
I'm not going to talk too much about it
29:07
right now because there's I don't want
29:08
to interrupt story that happens before.
29:10
But one of the things you find out is
29:12
that there are structures that lit that
29:14
exist for lack of a better word below
29:18
the reality structure of the the main
29:21
part of the oldest house. And those
29:24
structures are oddly specific in their
29:29
role. And it almost feels like the
29:32
things like the board are not
29:35
necessarily welcome in the oldest house.
29:37
Like it it hasn't decided yet if the
29:40
board should be and and that comes up.
29:42
Uh but the hiss is another example. H is
29:45
a very active malevolent force that is
29:48
corrupting everything it can. But it
29:50
also is tied to Jesse's origin story, so
29:53
to speak, because we find out as you're
29:56
traveling through all this, and there's
29:57
a lot of stuff I know Joe is going to
29:59
talk about, but you find out that Jesse
30:02
didn't, of course, did not imagine the
30:04
ordinary thing. Uh, it was something
30:07
called an an alternate world event. And
30:09
what happened was another object of
30:11
power. This one, a a you know, a a slide
30:15
machine. It's a slide projector that
30:18
when you put a slide in would open a
30:20
portal to the place the slide was of.
30:23
And she and Dylan discovered it and a
30:25
lot of the other kids in town, they were
30:27
all using it cuz it was cool, you know?
30:30
Um, kind of like the prequel of like
30:32
control could have had a prequel game
30:34
which was basically just like Stranger
30:36
Things meets the Goonies uh with a magic
30:40
slide projector because they were going
30:41
to other realms of existence and opening
30:44
portals to them using the slides and you
30:47
know as they did this they were opening
30:49
a path between you know normal everyday
30:53
existence and strange realms from beyond
30:57
our understanding. And that's why that's
31:00
that's how the disaster in ordinary
31:02
happened because things began coming
31:05
through. And whilst I think Dylan
31:08
managed to destroy almost all the
31:11
slides, like he ran back in and
31:13
destroyed almost all the slides, but he
31:15
didn't manage to destroy one. And that
31:16
slide, which went to a realm that they
31:18
called the hand because it looked like a
31:21
gigantic hand from a distance coming up
31:22
out of the ground. the thing that that
31:25
is now invading the hiss comes from
31:27
there and because he didn't destroy that
31:30
slide once the bureau had the slot this
31:33
I keep going it's called the slot
31:34
machine once they had the slide
31:36
projector they used it but they only had
31:38
the one slide to to explore so they kept
31:41
going back to that reality and during
31:44
all that they also discovered other
31:47
stuff that was left behind when the
31:50
ordinary disaster happened included
31:52
something they called the hedin
31:54
Yes.
31:55
>> Which was a giant polyhedrical,
31:58
you know, looks like a like a weird
32:00
shape. It doesn't really look like any
32:02
polyhedrin you've ever seen. Uh but it
32:04
it that's what the hedrin was apparently
32:06
giving off some kind of signal. And that
32:09
signal seemed to be able to bolster the
32:13
resistance to the hiss, but at the same
32:15
time it was making um what was his name?
32:17
the director of like the the the
32:20
technology guy. Uh I can't never
32:23
remember his name. I remember the first
32:24
one. He was the son of the original
32:25
founder. Thank you. Yes.
32:27
>> Casper Darling.
32:28
>> Yeah. Casper Darling, which I'm sorry,
32:31
Casper. Um he he was kind of going crazy
32:35
from his exposure to it. Although he
32:36
began making devices uh like the Hedron
32:40
like the Hedrin unit or H like HRC or
32:42
something. hars, hedron resonance
32:44
amplifiers, because it the the hiss is
32:47
all tied in with this because and this
32:50
is going to be I'm I'm going to let Matt
32:52
keep going, but just to give you kind of
32:53
an idea.
32:54
>> No, no, by all means,
32:55
>> the hiss is a what's known as a
32:57
resonance uh interdimensional resonance.
33:00
Um, which is why Jesse gives it the name
33:03
the hiss. It's the sound that things
33:06
that are infected by it sort of make um
33:09
and it self-propagates
33:11
through uh that resonance being heard
33:14
and essentially um to quote Jesse from
33:17
the game, it's an earworm that you just
33:20
can't get out of your head. Um so the
33:25
Polaris, the voice inside Jesse's head,
33:29
are completely immune to the hiss. Um
33:33
and
33:34
>> they are themselves also a resonance.
33:36
>> They are they are resonance uh entities
33:38
themselves and uh Crisen um he goes
33:44
ahead and creates devices or learns how
33:46
to make devices that essentially the
33:48
agents that can wear that tap directly
33:52
into the hedin and use that as a way to
33:56
essentially break themselves from the
33:58
earworm or prevent themselves from
34:00
getting infected to begin with. Um,
34:02
>> kind of like if you when you have an
34:03
earworm and the sometimes what you can
34:05
do to get rid of it is to hum another
34:07
song that you know and keep that song in
34:10
your head. Like for me, it's usually
34:11
Yellow Submarine. Um, it's it's not
34:14
dissimilar to that. In fact, I'm going
34:17
to say this because I know Joe will have
34:18
lots of ways to expound on it, but one
34:21
of the things that that control starts
34:25
carrying forward from the beginning is
34:27
this idea of music and and composition
34:31
of music and like the way things can be
34:35
like the resonance itself is a musical
34:37
concept. uh you know it's it's thing
34:40
it's a vibration that resonates inside
34:42
something and we've seen that it not
34:45
just in music but also in just in
34:46
structures like the uh the the bridge in
34:49
in in um Washington state the Tacoma
34:52
arrows that bridge was destroyed by
34:54
resonance
34:56
uh its vibrational frequency hit the
34:59
point where the bridge could not hold
35:01
its cohesion and went into the water uh
35:04
and I don't think that's an accident
35:06
that that that happened in Washington.
35:08
I'm pretty sure you know, Remedy, we're
35:10
thinking about that kind of thing
35:11
because it's the resonance is such a big
35:14
part of everything we're doing with with
35:16
the uh astral world and these alternate
35:20
world events and these entities like to
35:24
a certain degree the board themselves
35:26
like they they are also kind of
35:28
resonating. They are kind of a resonant
35:30
presence of their own.
35:32
And not every weird monster thing we see
35:34
in these games is going to be that, but
35:37
these ones are. And it's very, in a way,
35:40
it's the the pitching and angling of
35:42
these presences as they interface with
35:45
our reality. As you get to like a a
35:47
border between them is what allows the
35:51
hiss to to overpower these people. It
35:53
literally overpowers them with the with
35:56
its resonance and spreads its resonance
35:57
that way. And that's why uh Polaris/
36:01
therin is able to ground people because
36:04
it it will pro it provides them a
36:06
different resonance to it's the hiss
36:08
can't override their res resonance and
36:12
the hedin/polaris' resonance at the same
36:15
time because it's it one will always be
36:18
the other pitch. If you focus on polaris
36:21
the all the normal people will not be
36:23
able you won't be resonating them. If
36:25
you're resonating at them, the Polaris
36:26
resonance will just be there the whole
36:28
time, keeping you from achieving your
36:30
resonance. So, and it's very
36:32
soundoriented just as a metaphor.
36:35
>> And that comes back in in AWE, which is
36:37
why I wanted to mention it now, also
36:39
because Joe is a musician.
36:41
>> Well, we're we'll get we're going to get
36:42
to that, too, because that's another
36:43
tieback to uh Allan Wake. Um, so but
36:48
yeah, as you go through the the the the
36:50
facility and you start to uh fight back
36:53
against the hiss, um, you're essentially
36:55
guided by AI who doesn't seem to be
36:57
affected by any of this. Uh, does not
37:00
answer any of your questions directly.
37:02
He's very much the, uh, mysterious man
37:04
just mopping the floor and conveniently
37:07
wherever you need him to be. Um, and you
37:11
basically make your way uh through as
37:14
you basically uncover where the H
37:17
infestation came from, fighting back
37:19
against it and essentially ridding the
37:21
oldest house uh of the
37:25
uh essentially this this infestation. Uh
37:29
but it's along the Go ahead. You also
37:31
have to deal with all the people that
37:33
were there. Like not just the ones that
37:35
got overrun by the H, but the people who
37:37
were part of the bureau. Like you have
37:39
to go find them
37:40
>> because you're the director now.
37:41
>> Yeah. You're the director now. You have
37:43
to go find them and then some of them
37:44
aren't there anymore. Also, you're still
37:47
looking for your brother and you don't I
37:49
One of the things I I really come in
37:51
about this narrative is that it never
37:52
forgets even in the face of the disaster
37:55
that's happening. Jesse never forgets
37:57
why she's there. you know, she doesn't
37:59
forget her brother. She came to find her
38:01
brother. Is she gonna try and stop this?
38:04
Yes. Is she gonna forget about her
38:05
brother? No. And that's a really It
38:09
hangs a lot of the story. It gives it a
38:11
focus. Like I've complained in the past
38:13
about in Fallout 4 where you're like,
38:15
you know, okay, I guess I'm not going to
38:17
look for my kid anymore because other
38:18
stuff's happening. This game, she never
38:20
de deviates from her. Everything she
38:22
does is in service to finding it. It's
38:25
not just, oh, well, this is more
38:27
interesting now. Uh, it's, you know,
38:29
that's great. I want this place to not
38:31
do blow up, so I will help you because I
38:33
want to find my brother. And that's just
38:35
another example, um, of how the the
38:38
narrative is part and parcel of the
38:40
story.
38:41
>> Yeah. Um, one of the things that I I
38:44
think is interesting as you're making
38:45
your way through the story, and again,
38:47
like Matt said, you never lose sight of
38:49
the the core of it, like what your
38:51
character is trying to do, but you learn
38:53
more about the universe around you, and
38:55
you learn more reaffirmation
38:58
essentially, uh, that as Jesse, you're
39:01
not crazy. These things are actually
39:03
happening. Um, and then altered world
39:06
events or AWE
39:08
uh oftentimes, uh, result in an altered
39:11
item. Um, and some of these altered
39:14
items can be, uh, you know, something
39:17
as, you know, harmless as, you know, a
39:21
light bulb that never needs electricity.
39:24
Uh, but some of them can be absolutely
39:26
devastating and others, uh, are
39:28
considered objects of power. These
39:30
things are altered items that have a
39:33
direct connection to the collective
39:35
unconsciousness of the astral plane. Um,
39:39
and you start to learn a little bit of
39:41
the difference, although it's never
39:43
fully explained what if any uh of the
39:45
difference there is. It just seems to be
39:49
what it is a resonator for essentially.
39:52
Again, coming back to that idea of
39:54
resonance frequency. Um,
39:56
>> yeah. And I think there's like a good
39:57
way to put it would be if you imagine it
40:00
as a vin diagram, it's a circle with a
40:02
smaller circle inside it.
40:04
>> Yeah.
40:04
>> And the smaller circle are objects of
40:06
power. The larger circle is altered
40:08
items.
40:09
>> Yeah. And object of power. Yeah. Go
40:11
ahead.
40:11
>> I was going to say object of power tend
40:12
to be a little more stable. Um, so
40:14
there's things like the service weapon,
40:17
uh, which has been around for forever
40:19
and has been used to to combat and
40:21
basically fight against altered items
40:23
and entities that try to encroach upon
40:25
reality. uh the hotline which is
40:27
literally a red phone in a contained
40:30
room uh in the its own chamber in the
40:33
executive sector that's been around
40:35
since 1965
40:38
uh and leads you to be able to talk to
40:41
essentially the board and it's a direct
40:44
connection to them. Um you get other
40:47
things in these these objects of power a
40:48
floppy disc that you're not quite told
40:51
what it is or what it's for. Uh the
40:54
Benov TV, which is like an old like tube
40:57
TV st uh TV. Uh the Songmaster Jukebox,
41:01
again, that idea of resonance and sound.
41:04
Uh ashtray and cigarette. The slide
41:05
projector, which was picked up in 2002,
41:09
um which we know now is able to
41:11
essentially pull things uh out of these
41:13
alternate realities or or uh dimensions
41:16
or wherever the slides actually lead to.
41:18
uh a merrygoround horse, x-ray light
41:21
box, and a home safe. Um you would not
41:25
expect any of those things to be
41:26
anything special. And that trend is sort
41:29
of the point of it. They are mundane
41:31
objects imbued with incredible power
41:35
because of where they resonate to.
41:38
Altered items, on the other hand, are
41:40
they they seem to be less stable because
41:43
they've been acted upon by paranal
41:46
forces during altered world events. Um,
41:50
which develops unique and sometimes
41:51
disastrous uh properties. Um, they are
41:56
usually objects that don't have any
41:57
inherent connection to the board where
41:59
objects of power do. um or the ability
42:02
for parutil utilitarians
42:06
uh which are people that are able to
42:07
harness uh paranormal entities and power
42:10
like Jesse
42:12
um to bind them and wield their
42:13
abilities. Um there like this is where
42:16
some items such as the uh the the uh I
42:21
can't remember what the actual name of
42:23
the refrigerator is. Arctic Queen.
42:25
>> Yeah, we're just going to call it the
42:26
refrigerator. Yeah, I don't I think it
42:27
is the Arctic Queen. I don't remember.
42:29
Uh, so you have the like there's so many
42:30
of these things, but you have like the
42:31
Arctic Queen, which is um this old like
42:35
1970s style uh refrigerator that it is
42:39
ever if it's ever not watched, no matter
42:41
that it's contained, it will kill
42:43
somebody. It doesn't explain how
42:45
>> to be watched by actual eyes.
42:47
>> Yes. Has to be people. Can't be like a
42:49
closed circuit. just point cameras at
42:51
it, you know, and yeah, there has to be
42:53
a person looking at the thing, which as
42:55
you might expect when the hiss is
42:57
running rampant means that they have a
42:59
limited supply of people who could just
43:01
stand in a room and stare at a
43:02
refrigerator. And eventually you you
43:04
kind of go into the refrigerator to find
43:06
out what's going on. And do you want to
43:08
talk about that or you want to wait?
43:09
>> Uh, you can go ahead. When you go into
43:12
the re refrigerator, eventually it it's
43:16
like the astral plane that you went to
43:17
when you talked to the board, but it's
43:19
not the same. There's something it's all
43:21
dark and full of weird smoke and there's
43:24
this distant object like almost a
43:27
lighthouse way in the distance blaming
43:29
blaring light at you and then it turns
43:31
and attacks and you're like it's still
43:33
so far away and so bright you can barely
43:35
see any of it. You can barely make it
43:37
out. But whatever it is, you you you
43:40
find out I think it it's like you get
43:42
the impressions of this while it's
43:44
attacking. It's something called the
43:46
former. And the the idea is it might be
43:50
related somehow to the board, but is it
43:54
imprisoned or did it hide from them? We
43:57
don't know. We know that it begins
43:59
attacking you and then you can basically
44:02
defeat it, but that doesn't do much to
44:05
it. It's just it gets it leaves. It
44:08
stops trying to hurt you and it could be
44:10
anywhere in this strange astral place
44:12
that's inside the refrigerator. I you
44:15
know I based on other stuff that happens
44:17
it is my belief that the refrigerator is
44:20
not a prison itself. Like there is a
44:22
prison involved but it's not the
44:24
refrigerator. The refrigerator is the
44:26
tunnel that the found the the former was
44:30
trying to dig out of its prison with.
44:33
And it's it's a place where why do you
44:35
have to watch it? Because it is
44:38
desperate for the one thing Joe hinted
44:41
on it with the whole collective
44:42
unconscious. One of the things that's a
44:44
big part of this game and is it's part
44:45
of the research that the FBC has been
44:48
doing since before it was the FBC
44:50
because in the in the like you know it
44:51
was like founded in like 1910 uh by you
44:54
know I think Teddy Roosevelt is hinted
44:56
to have been involved in this.
44:57
>> Yeah. They never specify but it is very
44:59
highly implied.
45:01
>> Yeah. And one of the things they
45:03
discover is that you know there's that
45:06
same concept that you see in Alan Wake
45:07
except expressed in a more you know the
45:10
collective unconsciousness of humanity
45:12
is a presence of its own that nothing
45:16
the things inside the astral plane the
45:18
resonant beings cannot trifle with it
45:21
with impunity. They can they can do a
45:23
lot of things. They can affect you,
45:26
alter you, all that kind of stuff. But
45:28
humanity as an as a singular entity, not
45:32
not as the individual people, has its
45:34
own counterforce. And that counterforce
45:36
is will. If you push too hard, um it's
45:40
like, sure, you can wreck a town. Sure,
45:43
you can, you know, you can create this
45:45
weird reality bending strange house. You
45:50
can invade that strange house. You can
45:52
select somebody to become your
45:53
instrument in the world. If you push too
45:57
hard, the will of humanity, the
45:59
collective unconscious pushes back and
46:02
it needs to be, for lack of a better
46:04
word, it needs to be managed. Like
46:07
that's the whole concept of the control
46:08
that people are trying to inflict. One
46:10
of the things they're trying to control
46:12
is that inherent pool of energy, that
46:15
collective will. And it in a way it's
46:19
kind of brilliant how it's everything is
46:21
trying to control everything else in
46:23
this story. That's why control is such a
46:25
good name for it because that is what
46:26
you see. The board are trying to
46:29
effectively stage manage outside reality
46:32
through the director who is himself
46:35
allowing himself to be this pawn or her
46:38
when Jesse in order to still meet their
46:41
own ends and protect their own world.
46:43
There's give and take. Uh, in a way it's
46:46
very reminiscent of old stories of
46:49
making deals with devils except it's not
46:51
a deal. It's more of like a a collective
46:54
agreement like you know you you know and
46:56
you see things like the H are breaching
46:58
that collective agreement.
46:59
>> Mhm.
47:00
>> Like the board the board does not want
47:02
the hiss anywhere near the astral. They
47:04
don't want that thing that they would
47:06
never have wanted it to get out of its
47:07
reality. They don't want it around. Uh,
47:10
but at the same time, they're only able
47:12
to do so much to stop them because if
47:15
they push too hard, it's much like the
47:17
Allen Wake situation. Allan had to come
47:19
up with the right story. And that comes
47:22
in for the the final expansion as well.
47:24
>> Yeah. And I think I think uh one of the
47:26
things I want to because we're we're
47:28
sort of running short on time. There's a
47:30
lot here and we haven't even talked
47:31
about Alen week 2. Um, but the thing
47:35
that control really cemented and what
47:38
like sort of established that this was a
47:40
collective universe uh was just all the
47:43
references that were very overt about it
47:44
and the AWE or the uh altered world
47:48
event expansion of control really uh
47:51
pushed that. You'll also notice that AWE
47:54
uh shares a few uh letters and and
47:58
similar with Alan Wake. Um but in the
48:02
references to control in Alan Wake, um
48:05
there are already there. So like when
48:06
Alan Wake meets the Anderson brothers at
48:08
the Cauldron Lake Lodge, Odin says among
48:11
other things, we're so tired built a
48:13
farm close to the lake, a place of
48:15
power. In control, a place of power is a
48:19
term used by the Federal Bureau of
48:21
Control. Uh Frank Breaker, who appears
48:24
in the Alan Wake tyin comic Night
48:26
Springs, mentions the bureau. And even
48:29
though you were arrested by, and I'm
48:31
going to air quote here, an FBI agent in
48:33
the original Alan White game, it is
48:36
implied that this might not be an actual
48:38
FBI agent because they only ever refer
48:40
to themselves as an agent of the bureau.
48:43
Uh, and in the comics, this person
48:45
contacts a a person named Kirkland, uh,
48:48
with regards to the Bright Falls AWE in
48:50
control. Uh, it's confirmed that Frank
48:52
Breaker is a former agent of the FBC and
48:55
was indeed contra uh, contacting the
48:57
FBC, uh, the Federal Bureau of Control,
49:00
uh, namely its former head of
49:01
investigations, William Kirkland, which
49:04
you learn about and and deal with in
49:07
control. Um, the song Balance Slays the
49:11
Demon that can be heard in Alan Wake's
49:12
American Nightmare has a hidden message.
49:15
If you play it backwards, uh, it reveals
49:18
the words, "It will happen again in
49:20
another town called Ordinary." This had
49:23
been in there since that game came out.
49:25
Like seriously, that expansion, that
49:27
DLC, Alan Wake, American Nightmare, it's
49:30
been in there since then. Um, they they
49:33
were planning this. Uh then if you go to
49:35
control, Dylan Feden mentions that in
49:38
one of his dreams in which we remember
49:40
Dylan Feden, the the brother of Jesse
49:42
Fedden, is able to control and tap into
49:45
uh these items of these altered items
49:47
just like she can. Um had dreams where
49:50
he saw many worlds, including uh one
49:52
where a writer wrote a story about a cop
49:54
and another where the cop is real. uh
49:57
which is referencing Alan Wake and
49:59
possibly Alan Wake seeing and writing
50:01
about Max Payne and Max Payne being real
50:04
and just being uh something that exists
50:07
in another area. Again, leading to this
50:10
idea that Allen is one of these people
50:12
that is capable of tapping into these
50:14
paranal uh forces.
50:17
Uh there's a bureau file that details
50:19
their their plans to revive a canceled
50:21
Night Springs TV series which was uh
50:23
featured very much throughout Alen Wake
50:26
uh as a way of uh monitoring the
50:29
public's perception of the paranormal
50:31
seeing how attuned or how weird it is to
50:34
them. Uh essentially it's shows like um
50:38
Twilight Zone, right? they would air
50:41
this and if people reacted, you know,
50:44
off-put by it, then we know that we're
50:46
still good. If people like, "Oh, yeah,
50:47
it's just a Tuesday. We got problems."
50:50
Um, and when you go through the Ultra
50:52
World event case files, uh, it details
50:55
Bright Falls, Washington, uh, including
50:58
a summary of what happens in Allen Wake
51:00
and details it as a reoccurring altered
51:03
world event. Uh, one of Jesse's therapy
51:06
sessions, which you flash back on, uh,
51:09
in includes her reciting a line of
51:11
poetry by Thomas Zayn, uh, beyond the
51:14
shadow, you settle for there is a
51:16
miracle illuminated, uh, which was one
51:18
of the things that helped Allan figure
51:20
out that light kills the darkness. Um,
51:23
after she visits him in the foundation,
51:25
AI gives Jesse a cassette player, which
51:28
includes a song Take Control, performed
51:30
by the Old Gods of Asgard, uh, which is
51:33
a fictional band that has real songs
51:35
released, uh, but that were introduced
51:38
immediately in Alen Wake. They were to
51:40
two brothers, um, as this this biker
51:43
band, this rock band in, uh, Bright
51:46
Falls. Uh the oh there's altered items
51:50
in in control that you can find that are
51:53
uh thousand% uh the ones from Alan Wake
51:56
including a typewritten page uh and the
52:00
which indicates that the typewriter that
52:02
Allen was using was likely an altered
52:04
item. Uh and then there's also a oh dear
52:07
Diner coffee thermos which is the name
52:09
of the diner that you go to uh and is a
52:11
central location in the Ellen Wake
52:13
games. Um when the page is approached in
52:17
in in control an apparition of Allen
52:20
will actually appear and he will recite
52:22
the text from the page indicating that
52:24
this may be the manuscript or a page of
52:27
it in which he used to trap the darkness
52:30
the entity. Um one of the doors in the
52:32
ocean view motel which is the spiral is
52:34
implied to lead to the dark place uh
52:36
which is what Alan Wake referred to and
52:38
where he tried to where he trapped
52:39
himself essentially. um a whiteboard in
52:42
the central research area of the
52:43
research sector details uh about a shoe
52:46
box recovered from a woman named
52:47
Samantha Wells in ordinary. Uh these
52:50
events were previously depicted in the
52:52
Alan Wake ARG blog because they did a
52:54
whole thing with this with a augmented
52:56
reality game evolving this uh this House
52:58
of Dreams that that shoe box is likely
53:01
where all those slides came from cuz
53:04
that was a very common thing for those
53:06
of us who are old enough to know what
53:08
slides and and having slide projectors.
53:10
You kind of store them in boxes that
53:12
look like shoe boxes. Um, you have San
53:16
Tango, which is a song sung and listened
53:18
to by AI. When translated from Finn,
53:21
appears to be a ballad about Allen's
53:23
experience trapped in the dark place.
53:26
Um, which means that AI is maybe more
53:28
than he seems he is. Um, the
53:32
>> at least one fan theory that AI is the
53:34
oldest house,
53:35
>> that he is the entity of the oldest
53:36
house made manifest. Yeah. That he's he
53:38
is which would be perfect because he's
53:40
the janitor, right? He's cleaning up the
53:42
mess. He's keeping things tidy.
53:44
>> And that's also why when he talks to
53:46
Jesse, he says, you know, I need an
53:49
assistant. The interviews in the
53:50
director's office, he doesn't say, you
53:53
get to be the director. He's basically
53:55
saying, you get to be my henchman.
53:57
>> Yeah.
53:58
>> You're going to be working for me.
54:00
>> Yeah.
54:01
And what I I all the stuff Joe's
54:04
mentioned, there's also it's really
54:05
important to mention briefly that a lot
54:08
of it is stuff from straight up, you
54:11
know, occultism and and weird fringe
54:14
writings. Um the whole idea of of water
54:17
is a, you know, a place of power. It's
54:20
it's super old in occultism. Uh, one of
54:23
the places though that you'll see it is
54:24
in Tim P's um, Last Call, which is about
54:29
how Lake me was created to create a big
54:31
pool of tamed water to use in a magical
54:34
ritual. Uh, and also about how playing
54:36
cards are essentially uh, tarot cards
54:38
and you're using them to manipulate
54:39
reality. Uh, but that's again that's a
54:43
very similar thing to what we're talking
54:44
about. The idea that regular old role
54:46
playing cards could become imbued with
54:48
supernatural power by being used for it
54:52
is a big part of control thing all you
54:54
know the the um items are sometimes
54:56
altered just by being exposed to
54:59
something from another existence. And
55:02
the fact that they call people who can
55:03
tap into this kind of power
55:05
parutilitarian is a kind of fascinating
55:08
idea of people as tools. And the the the
55:13
foundation
55:14
um DLC, which comes before the awe DLC,
55:18
really shows Jesse in the board kind of
55:20
like sometimes she's working with them,
55:22
but sometimes she's working with the
55:24
former. And the former, by the end of
55:26
it, you see him vanish after he helps
55:28
her stop the nail, which is the item,
55:31
the pillar that seems to root the oldest
55:34
house into, for lack of a better word,
55:36
the astral realm and everything else,
55:39
all the other possible existences. When
55:42
they stop that from being destroyed,
55:44
it's like that's the moment where former
55:46
can finally connect to a way out. And he
55:49
through the other nail, there's a
55:50
smaller nail. And he jumps out
55:53
apparently. We don't know for sure. So
55:55
former might be out there somewhere
55:56
doing whatever former is doing
55:58
>> and we're probably getting that
56:00
>> and we're probably going to get more
56:00
into it. We're running out of time. Uh
56:02
we don't have really any time to talk
56:03
about Allen week 2. Um but I would like
56:06
to point out that it does really
56:09
continue this and it basically takes off
56:11
and continues from the AWE expansion for
56:14
control um and sort of just continues
56:17
the story and enriches it therein. And
56:20
now we have Control 2 coming in which
56:23
you are playing as uh Jesse Feden's
56:26
brother u
56:29
also one thing I should point out is
56:31
it's described as a more openw world RPG
56:34
experience and it's set in like a
56:37
nightmare version of New York and we're
56:38
not sure if that means that it's New
56:40
York has been turned into a nightmare or
56:41
if he's in an alternate reality that is
56:44
similar to New York but those are both
56:46
>> yeah it could be a slide um But it
56:50
should be pointed out. Dylan is not
56:51
Dylan embraced the hiss and he wasn't
56:53
taken over by it. He was able to resist
56:56
them taking him over. He worked with it
56:58
on purpose.
56:59
>> Mhm.
56:59
>> So that's worth keeping in mind when we
57:01
we see Dylan like what is it what is his
57:04
role going to be in this? It feels like
57:06
the control games take a top-down view
57:08
of what's happening and the Allen weight
57:10
games take a you're in the middle of it
57:13
and as a result the Allen weight games
57:15
are more kind of an existential horror
57:18
while the control games tend to be more
57:19
of a for lack of a better word action
57:21
adventure experience but the same stuff
57:24
is still powering all of it. It's just
57:26
one group one group's perspective on it
57:28
is different than
57:29
>> Yeah. And I mean it's one of those
57:32
things where I could talk about this all
57:33
day long. Um, the Remedy has done a
57:37
fantastic job crafting a universe, a
57:40
game universe that I I don't want to say
57:44
it's it like it's better than anything
57:47
else out there because I don't know that
57:49
it it is or isn't, but for me, it really
57:52
resonates and it it runs that line
57:56
between reality and supernatural
57:59
uh very well. It it focuses on human
58:02
themes and emotions. Um they all have
58:07
sort of like a very raw like what would
58:10
you do if you were a normal person stuck
58:12
in this situation feeling to it which I
58:14
think in a lot of games that deal with
58:16
the paranormal or deal with sort of like
58:19
the horror vibes of of like really Alan
58:23
Wake and Control cuz Control very much
58:26
has horror vibes in it.
58:27
>> Oh yeah, big time. And like it it really
58:30
kind of thrusts that like forward and
58:33
and does a really good job of this is
58:36
what a normal person would do and here's
58:38
how like a person who suddenly has
58:40
powers would start reacting and you know
58:43
what would their motivation be cuz in a
58:46
lot of other games the hero or the the
58:49
character the main character just okay I
58:52
ran for a little bit now I've got a big
58:54
stick and I'm going to go you know chase
58:55
all the monsters away. There's no doubt,
58:58
there's no um stumbling, there's no
59:02
there's no real sense of fear. Um but
59:05
Allan Wake definitely has that in
59:07
spades. Um Remedy has done a good job of
59:10
doing that in control as well, even
59:12
making you as powerful as you can become
59:14
in control. There's always an element of
59:16
fear and uncertainty in everything you
59:18
do. Is what you're doing the right
59:20
thing? Are you making the right choices?
59:24
Uh is what you're doing
59:25
>> is it okay? Yeah. Is it okay that I'm
59:27
essentially taking the word of a bunch
59:29
of voices from another existence?
59:32
>> Am I crazy?
59:33
>> I don't know them. Yeah. Not only am I
59:35
crazy, even if I'm not crazy, I don't
59:37
know these guys. I I don't even know
59:39
what they are.
59:40
>> Yeah.
59:40
>> Are they better than the hiss?
59:42
Seemingly, but maybe they're just
59:45
subtle.
59:45
>> But what is the H? And and like and
59:47
again there's also this idea of identity
59:49
of self that goes through all these
59:50
games as well because one of the other
59:52
things is not is it only an altered
59:54
world event but people that are infected
59:56
by by powers from these these other
59:59
realities or this this reality that
1:00:01
lives just underneath our own uh that
1:00:04
may very well be the foundation that our
1:00:05
reality is built upon. There's hints to
1:00:07
that in control by the way. Um is is
1:00:11
that they can physically alter a person.
1:00:14
they can mutate them and people who
1:00:18
learn to harness that power can also
1:00:20
kind of mutate themselves. And so like
1:00:23
it's this idea of what is it? What is an
1:00:26
individual against a collective
1:00:28
paranormal entity? Is it a collective
1:00:31
paranormal entity? Is is the the
1:00:34
prisoner, the other, the former uh
1:00:36
something that was carved off of of the
1:00:39
the board for a reason? Um
1:00:41
>> or did he defect?
1:00:42
>> Or did he defect? or is it is it the
1:00:44
source of the hiss? Um there's there's
1:00:47
so many things out there
1:00:49
>> that that you talked about the fact that
1:00:51
the dark place from Alan Wake is not a
1:00:54
resonant field.
1:00:56
>> No,
1:00:56
>> it's another So there's other things
1:00:58
that can do weird stuff to reality in a
1:01:01
completely different way.
1:01:03
>> Yeah. Which is which is relevant when
1:01:04
you play. And like I'm going to
1:01:06
encourage you if any of this has sounded
1:01:08
interesting. Um, the original Allen Wake
1:01:11
games are maybe not great control-wise
1:01:14
these days. Um, but if you can try to to
1:01:17
go through it, it it's well worth a
1:01:19
play. However, if you only are going to
1:01:21
play two of these games before anything
1:01:25
uh else comes out or even tangentially
1:01:27
interested in it, I will highly
1:01:29
recommend that you play Control. Uh, it
1:01:31
is often on sale. called the complete
1:01:33
edition. The ultimate edition is often
1:01:35
on sale um for relatively cheap with all
1:01:39
the DLC's and is well worth your time
1:01:41
and playthrough and it does have a
1:01:42
difficulty setting that will make it
1:01:44
easier for you as well.
1:01:45
>> Also, if you're paying for for Game Pass
1:01:48
anyway,
1:01:49
>> it's on there.
1:01:49
>> Uh it's on there. I don't know if I
1:01:52
don't think Sony has it, but yeah,
1:01:54
there's ways to get
1:01:55
>> it's on it's on PSN as well.
1:01:56
>> Oh, and then yeah, just get go if you've
1:01:58
already got those things, make use of
1:02:00
them.
1:02:01
>> Yeah. and because this is the time, this
1:02:03
is the game to do that for.
1:02:04
>> And I will say you after you're done
1:02:07
with Control uh and you are done with
1:02:09
the DLC's and you get through the the
1:02:12
AWE expansion, a th000% suggest that you
1:02:16
also potentially take the time to sit
1:02:18
down and play Allen Wake 2, which does
1:02:20
even more to flesh out the rest of the
1:02:22
universe. Uh it's been out for about 3
1:02:25
years at this point. Often it goes on
1:02:27
sale as well. Um, and it its story
1:02:32
enriches that of which is told through
1:02:34
control and gives you everything you
1:02:37
need to know about the Alan Wake
1:02:38
universe in one fell swoop. And it
1:02:41
really sort of sets up and this is where
1:02:43
people were were very excited and
1:02:45
waiting to hear when the next Remedy
1:02:47
game was going to be coming out. Um,
1:02:49
because once this was released, we
1:02:51
didn't hear about Control 2. It hadn't
1:02:53
been announced until uh one of the Game
1:02:56
Awards. Uh, and I know I absolutely lost
1:02:59
my mind because ever since Alan Wake 2,
1:03:02
I was waiting for the universe to
1:03:04
continue to expand. And with Control 2
1:03:07
coming out and it taking place
1:03:09
potentially in a altered New York City,
1:03:12
there are now options for other of
1:03:16
Remedy's games to start pulling into
1:03:20
this universe in real ways. And we're
1:03:23
talking,
1:03:23
>> I'm sorry, but if you do if you do a a
1:03:25
dystopian corrupted universe thing with
1:03:28
the actual city of New York in the
1:03:30
remedy verse and you don't eventually
1:03:32
release a DLC where is Max Payne goes
1:03:35
back to find his like to find any crap
1:03:38
of his life and murder everything in his
1:03:40
w path, you've missed something like
1:03:43
just oh
1:03:44
>> because not not only do you have Max
1:03:46
Payne uh essentially there um which I'm
1:03:49
sure Mark Wahlberg would 100% repraise
1:03:51
that role
1:03:53
um if you were to, you know, try to try
1:03:55
try to get him back on for like a video
1:03:57
game or a current video game instead of
1:03:59
a live action movie adaptation. Um but
1:04:03
also it has the ability to tie in
1:04:06
Quantum Break, which is a game not a lot
1:04:09
of people actually played. Um but was
1:04:12
originally uh imagined as a proper
1:04:15
sequel to Alen Wake before Ellen Wake 2
1:04:18
was around. Um, it was
1:04:20
>> and yeah, unfortunately Lance Reic is
1:04:22
gone, but my god, like anytime you can
1:04:25
get to see a video game where Lance Reic
1:04:27
plays a major character, you should do
1:04:29
it. Um, the man was a genius and Yeah.
1:04:33
No, Quantum Break Quantum Break is
1:04:35
really messed up. So, I definitely think
1:04:37
it would be interesting to see tied into
1:04:39
this like No, it turns out that that's
1:04:40
what the device you made did.
1:04:42
>> Correct.
1:04:43
>> Yeah. Right. like like or or the fact
1:04:44
that uh Courtney Hope uh who's the
1:04:47
actress who plays Jesse Feyen in control
1:04:49
is also a character in Quantum Break,
1:04:51
Beth Wilder, and have very similar like
1:04:54
tinges to them. So, like they could do
1:04:58
something here. They could start really
1:05:00
fleshing out the rest of the universe
1:05:01
and and and pulling these things in. Um,
1:05:04
and I'm really excited to to potentially
1:05:06
see that because again, Remedy has such
1:05:09
a very human way of telling these
1:05:13
stories and that's what makes these
1:05:16
compelling to me. So, I'm very excited
1:05:19
about it. I think Matt is as well. Um,
1:05:21
and maybe if our discussion about maybe
1:05:23
the world or the the universe of remedy
1:05:26
here is interesting to you, hopefully uh
1:05:28
you'll check it out as well. But I think
1:05:30
that's going to do it for us today,
1:05:31
friends. Uh, I do want to thank you and
1:05:33
remind you that Blizzard Watch is made
1:05:34
possible due to your generous
1:05:36
contributions at
1:05:37
patreon.com/blizzardwatch.
1:05:39
Your continued support means that this
1:05:40
podcast site and community is able to
1:05:42
thrive and grow. Blizzard watch
1:05:44
supporters enjoy exclusive benefits like
1:05:45
early access to our podcast, a better
1:05:47
chance of having your question answered
1:05:48
on our podcast or the queue and an
1:05:49
adsree site experience. And if you do
1:05:52
have questions for this or any of our
1:05:53
podcasts, or even a topic you want us to
1:05:56
cover, be sure to send those in to
1:05:57
podcastardwatch.com.
1:05:59
We ask that you specify the show that it
1:06:01
is or in the subject line as well as any
1:06:03
special pronunciation of your name. If
1:06:05
you want to discord, we have the Q and
1:06:07
podcast question channel open to
1:06:08
everybody. Same rules apply. And if you
1:06:10
are a Patreon subscriber, we have the Q
1:06:12
and podcast questions. The patron Q and
1:06:15
podcast questions channel set aside uh
1:06:17
as a special way of saying thank you for
1:06:19
helping us keep the lights on. Uh we
1:06:21
always tend to look there first. But
1:06:23
that friends, we'll see you next time.
#Games