Up next in 10
If you’re dipping your feet into the newly released Mists of Pandaria Classic you probably have some time to listen to us chat about it — though it seems like the bottlenecks of spawns from the starting experience back in the day have been hotfixed. Back in our day, it took two weeks of complaints, uphill both ways, to get a single tweet acknowledging a bug even exists. Ah, memories. This one has us very nostalgic.
Besides Classic, we also chatted a bit about Hacks and Hijinks, the new Overwatch Arcade mode. Joe also got to talk about the new Magic the Gathering crossovers he’s been dying to discuss. They just had a huge hit with their Final Fantasy crossover, and have announced one coming soon which features Spider-man, and both those seem very different from what we’ve seen out of Hasbro in the past.
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Show More Show Less View Video Transcript
0:10
Hello everybody and welcome to the Blizzard Watch podcast. It's me, Matt, your host, and my fantastic co-hosts,
0:17
Liz Harper, the EIC of the site. I'm not going to call her a Grand Huba this week, but I just did, so I defeated
0:24
myself already. And Joe Perez, who is also a Grand Huba. What? I'm just giving
0:29
everybody the title this week. I can do what I want because well, I could actually be stopped very easily. Never
0:34
mind. I'm I would like to start referring to myself as a digital cowboy now if that's okay.
0:39
I'm I'll call you Maurice if you fine. That's a reference to a song that I
0:44
don't know that anybody has. That's a reference to Neurommancer because we were talking about that on the pre-show.
0:50
Yeah. Anyway, so yes, lots of things going on. Um I we we had a quick debate.
0:56
I'm just going to mention this real fast. Uh I we had a debate on whether or not we should talk about Aussie Osborne
1:03
dying. I'm just going to say Aussie Osborne died. He was in a WOW commercial, so I felt the need to
1:09
mention it, but there's really not much to say about it. He wasn't really involved. I mean, he was he did play at Blizzcon
1:16
2009. He did, which is point of was one of the best live shows I've ever
1:22
seen. He destroyed so many speakers that day. Yeah. Um but but oddly and you really
1:28
this isn't a show where we can talk about him that much. So, it's it's another thing where we were
1:35
talking in the pre-show about getting older and part of getting older is uh
1:41
yeah, this what is that old saying? I forget. I think it was Hemingway. He said, you
1:46
know, all these people are dying who never died before. And he he didn't mean literally that of
1:52
course, you know, they weren't just dying every week, but he meant that, you know, all my friends, it's my friends now, it's people my age, it's my heroes.
2:00
Now, we're all dying. that used to be the people off in the future like people old people used to be dying but now I'm
2:06
an old people so to me they're just people and it is one of the weird things about life it yes it does it does feel just weirder
2:15
but anyway uh we should talk about various things um first up we're going to talk about World of Warcraft because
2:21
I mean it is surprise yeah uh we do talk about that kind of stuff um last week for Greedy Emissary
2:29
uh which is you know the the little guys, the treasure goblins, you you know them.
2:34
Um and collector's bounty. Um that's that's going on till the 29th, which is
2:40
exactly a week from today, I think. And probably less than that when you're
2:45
listening to this. So if there's anything you wanted to collect, if there are any of those treasure goblin soul,
2:51
not treasure goblin soul books, the the tier 2 recolors that you just had to have, you got to get on that and get
2:58
them now. Yeah. And and let's be honest, if you just like the endorphin rush of
3:04
knowing that they're there and chasing them around to kill them, again, you got a week. Uh quite frankly, yeah, just
3:10
just go kill them. I mean, life and undermine has been it's a crazy collection of treasure goblins.
3:18
It's just kind of an endless treasure goblin bonanza that strangely well
3:25
beyond anything in Diablo. It's like that's kind of odd. This This is the heart of treasure
3:32
gobliness is in Undermine. So to be fair, if you were going to find
3:38
treasure goblins in Undermine, it's not that surprising. Yeah, it's just not in Diablo, not in
3:44
Sanctuary. You want the treasure goblins, Undermine is where it's at. At least until next week.
3:50
Also, can you briefly Oh, Joe, go ahead. I heard you. No. Oh, I was just gonna say
3:56
I'm pretty sure you got to get those You got to get those transmogs before they're gone. That's That's the most important part.
4:02
I'm I'm gonna miss the double transmog drop so much. Yeah,
4:07
it's great. I have been collecting People have been hunting that stuff. I've Yeah, I've been hearing all about it.
4:12
I mean, I have not gotten any mounts. I'm okay. Mounts are fine, but I'm collecting so much transmog. I'm so
4:19
excited about it. Yeah. Soon it's soon it's going to be back to normal drop levels. I'll still be collecting
4:25
transwag, but but yeah, it's it's like anything else like this. When it goes goes away,
4:30
you're like, I'll still be doing this, but I really miss my, you know, extra drip of of, you know, electronic
4:36
clothing. But we should mention right now that if you're doing time walking and you've actually been doing it like
4:42
every week, uh you should already have your I'm I'm going to just keep calling
4:47
it the infinite pirate dragon. It is a It is an infinite pirate dragon. The infinite pirate dragon does have a name,
4:53
but it is an infinite pirate dragon. I mean, I think Chrono Corsair is a cool name. Don't get me wrong. Like, if I if
4:59
I could call myself Chrono Corsair, I probably would, but I don't think of a dragon pirate when I think of that. I
5:06
think of a villain from like like like when they did the DC Marvel mashups,
5:12
like I like they would take like, you know, the not the clock king, uh, his name was actually Kronos. They'd have
5:18
Kronos, the uh DC character, merge with like, I don't know, one of the Star Jammers. Uh do they I can't think of any
5:25
really good pirate super villains in Marvel. But regardless, they they do
5:30
something like that. Uh that's how that's what that feels like to me. But Psychopirate,
5:36
Psychopirate, thank you. But he's a DC one, too. No, he he's a Marvel one. He's Deadpool's He's one of Deadpool's uh uh
5:44
the psychopirate. Yeah, but the psychop pirate was the guy with the gold mask from Crisis Infant Earth.
5:49
Yeah. Well, I don't know what to tell you. They have one in Marvel and he literally fights Deadpool constantly.
5:55
Okay. Well, Deadpool probably knows he's in a comic, so that's fine. Um, but yeah, the last week for that, so if you
6:01
haven't done it, but you've still done it enough that you could get it this week, go do it. So, you get your you get
6:07
your dragon. You have to do all but one week of this event. So, if maybe you missed the first
6:13
week. I am in that boat. I did not do the first week. So, I got to go on do some time walking tonight.
6:19
But now we should move on to talking about WoW Classic because we've got a little bit more to talk about there because a Mr. Classic is now live. Did
6:26
it go live today or did it go live earlier? It's It went live yesterday. So, it's a it's an odd Monday launch, but uh yes,
6:34
now live and it stableish. Yeah, I was wondering about that. Did
6:39
they fix they they fixed those launch bugs that kept people stranded and unable to actually progress for a while?
6:44
Did did those at least go away? Um um
6:51
uh yeah, I mean they've been working on it. They've been uh boosting server capacity because there's been a lot of
6:57
overcrowding. They've increased drop rates on some terrible uh just
7:04
bottleneck quests. Uh there was when you got to what was the quest called?
7:11
Forensic science. Forensic science. Forensic science. Uh someone reported on the forums that he
7:18
was sitting with four a crowd of about 400 people waiting for the spawns. It
7:25
spawns every like three or four minutes. Oh jeez. And you need you need like eight of
7:31
these things to finish the quest. and uh he did the math and he was like, "Okay, it's gonna take me 33 hours to do this."
7:39
Um yeah, guys, this is a I can't progress moment. So, um yeah, so Blizzard has improved the drop
7:46
rates on on some of these bottleneck quests and drop rates and and respawns.
7:52
Yes. Uh and they have boosted uh server capacity to uh let more people get in.
8:00
It's but yes, if you if you played Miss of Pandaria in the early days, you
8:05
experienced this. It is a This is We're right back there. We're right back there
8:10
with a genuine genuine Miss Pandere launch day experience. I remember I mean we were all probably
8:17
in the beta because back then you got in the beta if you just like signed up like
8:23
if you were like on the like was it the six month or the year? One year. If you had the one year you were guaranteed uh guaranteed in the
8:29
beta. We were there um when when they decided to completely redesign Jade Forest and
8:37
they kept this bug. This was the only thing they kept it felt like was this
8:43
this situation where even on the beta you were getting some getting some hard
8:48
times on respawns because there were a lot more people in that beta than is usual for a beta. there were like dozens
8:56
of people on it the same time as you whenever and then of course when it went live it got even worse. Uh, so in a
9:02
weird sort of way, my my evil goblin, it's not a treasure goblin, it's just goblin. Evil goblin heart is kind of
9:09
like a little like, yeah, like yeah, that's how that's how it should feel. That's how Miss a Pandora classic should
9:16
feel. It should feel like standing there going, am I ever going to get this um or is this this is this airflying thing
9:23
even going to spawn? Am I going to get to fly down off the boat? uh or what have you, however you however you were
9:30
doing it. Go ahead. They're they're working on it. Um and it has been getting better. So, you know,
9:37
it's uh it's one of those things. It's you don't really want to play on launch day. That's not unless you're just super
9:45
hardcore. You're going to that world first level 90 thing. I think Mitch could do it. Mitch Mitch
9:51
somehow could do it. I don't I've never understood how, but Mitch can like just he'll get on. He'll immediately get
9:56
through everything. He'll do that quest. He'll get his drops before anybody else touches it and he'll be down the road
10:02
and the rest of us are like, "What happened? Where did he go?" But yeah, if I had to get one person to to to go to
10:09
max level as fast as possible, it would be Mitch. Mitch is just amazing at it. I
10:15
don't know if he still has the time, but and that's that's the problem. Time is always the problem. And it's
10:22
I just don't think it's worth playing on launch day. It's just, you know, I can I'm going to chill out for a little bit
10:28
and then catch up with everyone. And that is made easier by the fact that I
10:33
only have a level 80 character. So, actually, I cannot run into Pandaria
10:39
immediately. And I'm feeling like when I get there, that'd be a little more
10:44
chill. I'm perfectly content with that. I mean, I I haven't gotten a chance to do it yet. Um,
10:50
I kind of to a certain degree feel like Remiss the other year and yeah, every so often I remember that it was
10:56
like what, two years ago now? I feel feel terribly old, but um, Remis kind of
11:02
scratched any itch I had for Pandaria. Yeah. Like I don't really feel tremendously
11:08
like I played when it came out and thought it was great and then I played it Remiss and thought it was great and it's not that it won't
11:13
be great now. It's just I don't I don't feel the need uh to kind of the way you were about Cataclysm,
11:20
I guess. Well, I mean, I know I know people played Cataclysm.
11:26
Uh, Cataclysm was the expansion that made me quit World of Warcraft. So, I do
11:31
not have fond memories of Cataclysm, but I came back is for me personally, I came
11:37
back to the game in late Mist of Pandaria shortly before Siege Formar, so
11:43
I missed a lot of the roll out. I know I got the I got the bad part and
11:49
I missed all of the cool roll out. So, one thing I have never seen is the veil
11:54
of eternal blossoms before it got wrecked. I never got there. I was not playing the game and it did not come
12:01
back in Remis. It was Yeah. So, I have You're telling me that you
12:07
that you came back as Siege of Orcomar. It's like Yeah. It's like like Sarah Mclofflin should
12:13
write a song for you that would play in the background. I I had been away from the you know I'd
12:19
been playing since launch and I had it was just it was at that point it was getting really exhausting and in
12:27
Cataclysm a lot of things just turned upside down as far as playing the game. I was not enthusiastic about it and it
12:36
was it was a good time for me personally to take a break and when I came back in a mist lots of things were different. I
12:42
rolled a monk which I was having a lot of fun with. It was a different kind of play style and it was a good time for me
12:49
to come back, but I missed a lot of the cool stuff in Pandaria the first time around because I was not there as all of
12:57
the cool content was rolling that out. I came, you know, right at the end of all
13:02
of those content rolls out. So, I didn't see it unfolding. So, I think that would be really cool. And even though I don't
13:11
know where you find the time for all of these things since we are about to get a big uh retail WOW patch coming out in
13:18
just a couple weeks, but I am going to try to level through Missand area. Yeah,
13:24
I don't know that I'm going to be raiding or anything like that, but at least play through the story line and
13:31
watch it unfold as it originally did and hopefully not spend, you know, a year in
13:36
Siege of Ormar. The patch is a two week. The uh yes, we've got a couple weeks
13:42
before WoW patch 11.2 rolls out and it's like that's going to be a lot of a lot
13:47
of stuff to do and there's still Pandaria over there. I have five levels
13:52
before I can even go to Pandaria. It's it's a lot of work. I I'll get there.
13:58
Just I I want to get there before Siege of Ormorar rolls out. I don't want to miss it this
14:04
time. All right. Um next up is an Overwatch thing. um that I freely admit I don't
14:10
really understand. Uh do either of you know enough to tell me about hacks and hy jinks or are we just going to have to
14:16
read from the So it is it's a new event coming coming out. It's just sort of wacky aixes in
14:25
different matches. So, uh, the the personal favorite over here is one
14:32
called mini maxing when in which all heroes are 50%
14:37
smaller. Literally, not literally 50%
14:42
smaller and their health is all reduced by 30%. So, wait a minute.
14:48
Like the one that's a hamster is is the smaller as well. 50 50% smaller.
14:55
Oh. Oh, wow. So, it's it's just uh it's a fun different
15:00
thing to play. Overwatch does keep rolling out. I mean, we don't talk about Overwatch a lot because I think all of
15:06
us are really bummed about the lack of a story mode. We would like more narrative content. We'd like more cinematics and
15:14
things like that that Overwatch doesn't roll out as much. But, they do continually roll out new and different
15:22
events. And in Hacks and Hy Jinks, each round you're doing something totally
15:28
different and weird. And so it's it's a cool different way to play and it's
15:34
going to be available through July 28th. So there's not a whole lot of time. Yeah. Overwatch does this thing. Diablo
15:41
I does it too where they do a lot of quick hit events and it's like it's very much encouraging you to log in now now
15:49
and do this thing. But this one, this one is pretty cool. Okay. Uh Joe, anything you want to say
15:55
about it? No. I think Liz covered everything that I really could have said. So, good job, Liz.
16:00
Well, then unfortunately for you now, Joe, you have to talk about the Magic the Gathering thing.
16:08
Weeks. Yes. I'm sure Joe doesn't want that. No. Never. Never in a million years. Uh,
16:13
so this is something that I I wanted to kind of mention a couple weeks ago because it's a it's an interesting
16:19
hallmark for we we talk about all these games and and how games are are companies are generally risk adverse a
16:25
lot of times. And it's interesting because Magic is releasing a set that when people mention Magic the Gathering,
16:32
it's traditionally oh wizards and uh sorcerers and you know this this big,
16:38
you know, grand fantasy scheme of things, but this last couple years
16:43
they've been really sort of like branching out of that and trying while there's still sorcery and magic, they're
16:48
doing different things like Ravnikica being a city of detectives or uh going back to dinosaur land and Ion on uh or
16:57
we had one where we did a red wall essentially where anthropomorphic creatures were, you know, going to war
17:03
with each other, but they were the actual size of the creatures that they are. Um, and they've been taking more risks with what they're doing with their
17:10
IP. They're holding it a little less precious, which the designers, I think it's really commendable. This latest set
17:17
is doing something that some people have felt very strongly about in the past. Uh, but we're going to space. And not
17:25
only we going to space, which originally was only reserved for sets that weren't actually part of like the canonical
17:31
universe. This is like Star Trek, Star Wars, and Guardians of the Galaxy had a
17:37
baby. You have elements of this sort of a reverence. You have the spaceships, you have the battles, you have the
17:43
pseudo Jedi, you have all this interesting card design space revolving around warp, i.e. warp speed. Uh, and
17:50
it's really fascinating to see this sort of evolve. And one of the interesting things about it that I I thought was
17:56
cool, and Matt and I talk about this on lore watch a lot is when something is a
18:02
like recon not being a bad thing, right? Like Recon not being necessarily the dirty word that people make it out to
18:08
be. And in this particular case, they're bringing back some old uh card types or
18:15
creature types from back during the time when like, you know, 94, 95, 96, they're bringing back like Kavu. And in the
18:22
original game, they were just mindless beasts. Turns out they're not mindless beasts. They're actually an advanced
18:28
alien race of space fairers. And like they're doing all sort of like this really cool stuff. And I wanted to kind
18:35
of just point that out because again from a design space perspective, not holding your IP too precious lets you do
18:43
adventurous things. And we've been talking a lot about this in the past where like universes beyond like these
18:49
these sets like Final Fantasy and Lord of the Rings are taking all the highlight. This is the most hype I've
18:54
heard from players for a base set that's not set in a universe beyond or another
19:00
IP setting that is something that is actually in the canonical universe for
19:06
Magic the Gathering's little like story universe in years like absolute years.
19:13
So, I just kind of wanted to throw that out there and kind of bring this up and say, do we have any idea of any other
19:19
games that have been taking uh, you know, sort of a risk, a wild risk, and
19:26
not holding their IPs precious anymore? Do like, have we seen any other examples
19:31
of any other games really willing to take that risk lately? I can't think of any. So, I'm kind of asking you guys if
19:36
you if you can think of any of anybody that's like not followed the the AAA or the the no, it has to be this
19:43
mentality when making their games. I mean, I can think of a few, but nothing that's quite as I don't want to
19:50
say aggressive, but I don't know what word to use here. Um, nothing quite that, you know, it
19:55
feels like Magic the Gathering is like we are Magic the Gathering. We are the card game. And rather than being like
20:02
using that to just say we're gonna keep doing what we're doing, it's like we're gonna do whatever we want. We're gonna
20:08
try weird things. What are you going to do? Go play some other card game. Okay. We we don't care. And that's not
20:14
something like at the same company you've got Dungeons and Dragons is not doing that. You know what I mean?
20:20
Yeah. That's that's that's kind of what I was going to like throw out there is like we talk about Hasbro a lot not doing this with D and D
20:26
and like how I guess we could call it 5.5 cuz I don't really have a catchy way to say it.
20:32
Yeah. Um it that's a good that's a good one. I've seen other people doing that. Yeah. But it doesn't take enough risks,
20:39
right? It didn't do at least folks. If you're enjoying it, please continue to enjoy it. Um but it didn't
20:46
I'm enjoying it, but that still doesn't mean I disagree that it's not taking enough risks. You can you can like
20:51
something and think it's not doing what it could do with itself. Yeah. Like it it had an opportunity to
20:57
sort of reinvent itself in a way that was not fourth edition and like it would
21:02
have been at a time where it could have been received very very well and they just didn't. And then you look at this
21:09
and I don't think it's necessarily that they this is coming from a place of the designer saying we're the only card game
21:14
in town because they're not right. Um, no, I know that, but I'm I'm just saying that they feel it's like it's like a
21:21
it's almost like a swagger. Well, I I think it's the opposite. I think it's I think it's I think it's the designers fighting back
21:28
and saying we make really cool stuff and we can make really creative stuff. We don't have to go to Final Fantasy to
21:35
have really cool Magitech stuff. We don't like when they did Aetherdrift. Aetherd Drift was all about like it it
21:41
was framed really poorly, but it was all about like the mechanics and like making this like interdimensional racetrack and
21:47
and stuff like that. But that wasn't the cool part of the story. The cool part of the story was all these mechs and all of
21:52
these vehicles that they were making and putting it into like not a Mad Maxi but like a wacky racers but but like more
22:00
grounded sort of like time like framing of it. And like they're saying we don't
22:06
have to go and like pull, you know, speed racer into here. We can do our own
22:11
thing or we don't have to do our own mechs cuz and I this is a hill I will die on and and anybody out there who
22:17
tells me I'm wrong, I will point to the original books. Uh Öza, one of the original uh I'm going to air quote good
22:25
guys uh created mechs. He created literally Pacific Rim mechs to fight
22:30
against Forexia and against ex existential threats to the multiverse or his version of the the
22:38
universe essentially. Uh mechs have been a part of this game since 1994. And
22:43
anybody who's like, "Oh, technology doesn't belong in magic." Read a book, right? Like it's been there since the
22:49
very very beginning. But but like it's it's fascinating to me
22:54
to see them like do this because they're doing this cuz they love it and they don't want to me it's like the designers
22:59
don't want their game to just be consumed by all of these other IPs, right? Like it's okay to have cross
23:05
kind of where they are right now. Yeah. Like where it used to be once in a while we'd have an IP like Fallout was a
23:10
thing and that was wildly successful and Lord of the Rings was a thing and that was wildly successful but those were one-offs. Now we're getting three a
23:17
year. three Universes Beyond sets a year, which is absolutely insane. Like
23:23
this year alone, we're getting we had the Final Fantasy one. After this is the Spider-Man set coming out, and later
23:28
this year is the Avatar the Last Air Bender. And those are not cheap IPs by any chance or any stretch of the
23:34
imagination. And while there is cool design space in that, I like the fact that they're taking the risk to show
23:40
that they can make cool and interesting and wild things in their universe in their own story without having to resort
23:48
to, you know, resort to to buying the rights to something else. Like they can make mechanical dinosaurs. They don't
23:54
have to go to to to uh, you know, borrow from Horizon Zero Dawn, right? Yeah. Yeah. But it's interesting think
24:00
about like because you're talking about the designers versus the the corporation is what's pushing, you know, three
24:07
universe sets a year. Yes. Because they sell. That's that's all. It's purely financial.
24:13
I mean, it's it's it's not a case of the designers going, "We can't think of anything. Please give us so we can make
24:19
more cards." But I think they're trying to prove that you don't need to go to the universes beyond. It just it's interesting because
24:25
in that case, if you look at the other big IP that Hasbro has in this sphere,
24:31
which is Dungeons and Dragons, they're getting their innovation from Magic.
24:37
Yeah. Um, well, we talk about this all the time like you and I was going to say you and I have talked about this like some of the best magic
24:43
sets translated into some of the best D and D books. Stricks Haven for one of them. Uh, Theos is another one.
24:50
Theos was one of the best ones they put out for the you know, they just loved that book.
24:55
Ravnikica, which laid the groundwork, and I This is another Hill Down, which laid the groundwork for Tasha's uh
25:00
Cauldron of Everything. Like, these are magic sets that they did. They were magic sets first.
25:06
Yeah. And it's it's just interesting because it feels like when when Magic
25:12
decides it's going to do this kind of thing, they still have the the power or the cache that they can get away with
25:18
it. But when D and D decides they want to do that kind of thing, you end up with half the company laid off or
25:24
quitting. Yeah. But and again, it's a it's an interesting timing on it though, too, because at the time and and maybe this
25:31
is part of the broader discussion that I really wanted to have about this is Dn D was at the height of it during the
25:38
pandemic and and Hasbro kind of got a glimmer of the power of D&D and Magic
25:44
the Gathering. Both of these things propelled uh Wizards of the Coast to be
25:49
a billion-dollar company, right? Like they generated more revenue during the pandemic than any other branch of Hasbro
25:55
and anything else that Hasbro was doing, which was great for Watsi, but also terrible because then it it was like the
26:01
shark that had been ignoring that school of fish over there finally saw the glimmer of the light on the scales and
26:06
was like, "Oo, let's go eat." Um, and like we started getting all these weird
26:12
decisions of how much how can we pump more money out of it instead of just letting them do what they did in the
26:17
first place to get there cuz Universes Beyond wasn't really a thing when they were making this money. Like there were
26:22
secret layers and stuff like that, but they were doing this stuff already internally. Like they were making really
26:29
out there sets or doing weird things that were still magic but were taking
26:35
risks. And at the again at the height of the pandemic, people were lapping that up. And then you have D and D who, you
26:41
know, we were playing with our friends online, right? We were playing remotely and watching Critical Role and watching all these shows that were being made
26:47
with the stuff. And we, you know, we saw that the the buying power of that and
26:53
people jumping onto the hobby. And now it seems like there are two things. One, like you're right, Hasbro is trying to
26:59
pump both of these things for money. But one, Hasbro fired all the designers and everything that they had on the D&D side
27:05
because for whatever reason, they thought that they had this in the bag or they could do whatever. And you know,
27:11
they're wrong. Uh, and now they're losing ground to other companies. And then on the Magic side, they didn't have
27:19
they can't do AI cards. They tried and it was a disaster. So, they didn't really fire all those many people from
27:26
that side of the house. Um, and so they I think look at the career of James Wyatt. Yeah,
27:32
James Wyatt, big D and D guy for years. Um, 2014 or so, moves over to Magic,
27:37
there for like seven, eight years. Uh, moves back to to D and D. Quote unquote
27:43
retired last year. Mhm. When he was at Magic, you know, he just was there doing all the cool stuff that
27:49
ended up getting in Plane Shift books. All the a lot of the lore of the of Magic that came into D and D came from
27:56
James Wyatt because then James Wyatt went over to D and D to write it for them. And then they got rid of him when
28:02
they did their great purge right around the time that uh I I I can't say his name without sounding like I'm swearing,
28:09
so I won't. Uh I just feel weird about it. But he's he's infamous. We have all these properties we can mine for AI. Uh
28:17
and when somebody tells you they're going to mine a property, it's like wow. Uh could you describe this in a
28:24
more exploit? would be that would be Chris Cox and that is actually his actual name. I can't I can't get away
28:32
with it. I found his name. The the funny thing is I I always
28:37
figured his name was Cox COX and that people were just joking and taunting him
28:44
by writing it the other way. No, no, that's his name. Yeah, it it is. Um, so yeah, when when
28:51
the exploit the exploitative nature of capitalism has always been there and AI
28:56
is not it's not bringing it to it's not bringing it up so much as it's just giving them a new tool with which to do
29:02
it. But regardless, it feels like the two companies react differently. the two
29:08
I shouldn't say companies because they're both parts of Wizards of the Coast which are both owned by it's owned by uh Hasbro, but it's like the Magic
29:16
side seems to be able to get their head down and focus on design in a way that the the D&D side has not been able to.
29:23
Well, and and you're completely right in that even let's go back to to like let's go back to 2022. We were all talking about
29:31
ooh in in like 3 years they're going to have their big anniversary. It's going to be 50 years of of Dn D and they've
29:39
been putting out all these really interesting and and innovative books and they've just got this massive catalog of
29:47
stuff they're releasing and then imagine from that perspective looking at now and
29:53
it almost feels like we went through some kind of time warp back to like you know 2000 when they put out a whole
29:59
bunch of really cool interesting books and then just did nothing for like several years. I it just it's wild. Um,
30:06
Magic I for has a lot of flaws. I really don't think this reliance on selling
30:11
people yet another weird deck of of licensed cards is a good thing long
30:16
term, but you are right that this is that that's why I think this is such an aggressive move.
30:23
Well, because it feels like they're saying straight up, you know, we don't if if we wanted to, we could ne we could go
30:29
without a single license ever. Yeah. And and I think the I think the other side of that too is it's also a
30:35
very competitive time for card games. And the reason that I I bring this up too is and we haven't talked about this
30:40
much like Altered is an augmented reality card game that's gaining steam.
30:46
Uh Pokemon is still around which a lot of people are are very familiar with. Bandai just released a Gundam card game
30:53
complete with preparation for a miniature game that they're going to be putting out which we will talk about at at some point uh when the actual
31:00
miniature game releases cuz I will want to talk about that at least on a on a Tavern watch or something. Uh but
31:06
they're like little tiny Gundam kits that you put together that are the size of like Space Marine. So they're coming for both, you know, they're coming for
31:13
market share from the the Magic the Gathering side. They're also coming from mark marketing share from uh Games
31:20
Workshop and Warhammer 40k and doing it in a way that is affordable and
31:25
accessible that these other companies forget. Didn't Disney want to do a Marvel one, too?
31:30
Well, no. Disney Disney's not doing a Marvel one. They're they've done Disney has done two things so far. There's the
31:35
Star Wars Unlimited, which is a very good game. Um, which obviously is their Star Wars stuff. Uh, and then they're
31:42
doing their licensing of the IPs internally. Um, which also is a
31:47
fascinating thing that uh, apparently there I think Ben Broad and company has
31:53
exclusive digital rights to cards for Marvel because Marvel apparently and Disney car carved this up so minutiaike
32:00
that when Magic releases their Spider-Man set, they cannot release it in their digital formats because I think
32:07
Second Breakfast has exclusive digital. Yeah, Marvel Snap Second Refctors have exclusive like digital card rights right
32:13
now for it, which I think is very interesting, but that's a topic for another story. But there there's so much
32:19
competition out there that you I if you don't be bold as a designer, they've
32:27
already seen what happens with the the D&D side of the house, right? like you
32:32
you start going away, you start getting carved on, you start they start trimming headcount and then you either go and
32:38
find do another game uh somewhere else, find your own company, go work for somebody else. But if you really like
32:44
what you do like Mark Rosewater or or or Gavin um Gavin Verhe like you don't want
32:50
to do that. Like you want to keep making the game you like you want to keep working on the stuff you want and
32:56
pushing those boundaries. And again this is not like a sudden thing. Magic sets are in production for like three to five
33:02
years. They know what they're doing well in advance, much like a video game. So, I've talked a lot about this and I'm
33:08
sure a lot of our listeners maybe have tuned out by now. So, I'm going to stop, but it's I just wanted to bring it up
33:13
because it is it is something that I think is really fascinating and appeals to a lot of people, especially people who haven't played the game before
33:20
because I've seen a lot of people that are like comic people that buy the Star Wars comics or the Star Trek comics, uh,
33:26
that have been asking about this because the art style is very similar. There's a lot of really cool stuff like that. Um,
33:32
one guy even mentioned that he never played Magic before, but he plays No Man's Sky and he heard from a friend
33:38
that and looked at some of the art and said it reminded him of the game. So, like he pre-ordered a box. He's never
33:43
played the game before just because he likes the art. And this is not an this is not a Universes Beyond IP, which is
33:50
it's it's very fascinating to me to see people outside of the hobby being drawn
33:55
in not by Fallout, not by Final Fantasy,
34:00
not by uh Assassin's Creed or another like third party IP. And I think that
34:06
that's a really good thing. And I think more companies need to look at that and say if they can take a design risk and
34:13
take all these design risks and still be in a good position and generate that much attention, maybe we should too.
34:19
Yeah, I think it's I I do want to mention something that's that's only tangentially related to this, but I think it kind of it sums up the
34:25
worldview of corporations and why they can be so destructive to creative uh program projects like for instance any
34:33
game development or design. Do you guys know who the Micronauts are? Yeah, absolutely.
34:38
Uh Liz, do you know who they are? Nope. Okay. Back in the 70s, um I think at the
34:45
time it was Kenner, it might have actually been a British toy company that I can't remember, uh came out with Micronauts, which were
34:51
like little little figures that pulled apart. So like you could they were
34:56
magnetically attached at the the the shoulders and legs and head and you could re you could take them apart and
35:02
recombine them in different forms. That was like one of the big things of them. Um, over the years, Micronauts had a
35:08
comic book. Uh, they eventually got bought by Hasbro. Yeah. Four comic books. He's right. Uh,
35:14
they were bought by Hasbro. Hasbro decided they were going to make a a cartoon of them. And they did make it. They made a 52
35:21
episode series that was completely finished and ready to go. And then they just decided to write it off instead of
35:29
releasing it because that made them more money than they believed they would get from releasing it due to a merger that
35:36
was going on at the time that that killed Hasbro Studios. Hasbro had their own animation house. They did a merger.
35:43
This killed that house and they decided, you know, we finished this. We have it, but we're not going to release it. And I
35:50
know we only know about this because there were memos and so forth. Oh, and recently someone dumped the entire 52
35:56
episode series on the web archive. So now we you can see these things that
36:02
were once completely unseeable. They were they were phantom media. Hasbro and
36:08
other big companies are not in the business of creating things to make your life fun and cool and better. They are
36:15
in the the industry of of harvesting your positive emotions in the form of
36:20
money. And so I I feel like afraid for the Magic of
36:26
the Gathering devs and it feels almost like watching like them them doing this
36:31
is it's very cool but at the same time you you're at the mercy of people who could just tomorrow decide to fire all
36:39
of you. Let's focus on the positive and like I understand it but let's focus on the positive. I'm getting a cool space set
36:44
and I get to be I get to fly around in spaceships in Magic the Gathering. I'm just I'm hoping that we get to see more
36:50
of that kind of stuff is all I'm saying. Yeah. And quite frankly, it wouldn't bother me it wouldn't bother me all that much if
36:57
Dungeons and Dragons started looking at what it's got and saying, "Hey, no, we have some really cool things.
37:02
We can we're going to talk about this. We can talk about this on a tavern watch. It's one of those things where like Piso is doing it. Has should take
37:09
notice." Not just Piso. I mean, there's lots of other companies. We We shouldn't move on because otherwise this is going to turn into a
37:15
tavern watch. Um, right now we do have other games to talk about. Um,
37:21
let's talk about Wildgate because I mean it's live right now. Um,
37:27
I just went and looked at that on Steam. Uh, it's I think it's going for like $40 Canadian. I don't know what it is in the
37:32
States. Uh, so Wildgate is the new game from Moonshot Studios, which is
37:38
Moonshot Games of Dream Haven Studios. Yeah. Yes. So,
37:43
and they already have a a road map, you said? Yeah, they they've got a road map for uh for the for the rest of 2025,
37:51
which I think is interesting because they actually announced this uh pre-launch.
37:58
They already had a road map for what they're doing next year. This year? Yes. Time.
38:03
Time. Yes. And and I mean, let's be upfront. Uh not every company has a road
38:09
map out of the gate. Yeah. Uh so that's that's interesting in of itself. Yeah. some some of them never have a
38:17
road map. I mean, so it's when you have a live service game like this, a game that is sticking around, it is very nice
38:24
to know what's coming up. It gives people, you know, a reason to stick with
38:29
it, to know, okay, they're working on this, they're working on that. I'm excited about this. I'm not so excited
38:34
about that. It it says there's a plan and it also says this game is going to
38:40
continue and your investment in the game matters. It says we it says we care about the
38:46
game we've put out and we want to keep it keep it growing and and we're not going to just it's not abandoned wear if
38:51
anybody's old enough to remember that title. I mean if you're not old enough to remember that title it's not veil guard
38:58
where they they push it out the door to die and then there's nothing. It's not doing that. So yeah,
39:04
we were we were talking earlier about Miss of Pandaria, which also not abandoned wear, but you know, we were
39:10
playing Miss of Pandaria, and then you got to that last patch with Siege of Ormar, and you're in Siege of Ormar,
39:15
two years, approximately forever. And that was 18 months. 18 months.
39:22
Forever. So that was before WoW did road maps. I mean, these days they're like
39:28
clockwork. there's a new patch every two months, but then it's like you're
39:34
looking at this game, you don't know what's coming next, you don't know what they're working on, you don't know what their plans are. You're just sitting
39:40
here in Siege of Warmar, and it's kind of, you know, it's it's easy to get discouraged. Like, another good example of this is
39:47
comparing Overwatch 2 to well, Marvel Rivals. Marvel Rivals releases their
39:53
road map. They tell you what's coming. They they talk about it. Yeah. They do quarterly updates and give you the new
39:58
updates and the new road maps. Uh like we it's very rare like I know Overwatch
40:03
2 has been trying to be better about that, but it's very rare to get that from the Overwatch team more than once a
40:08
year and maybe you might get a road map, a rough idea, but I don't think I've really seen that much care to it. And
40:14
then you have this, which is Wildgate, the new kid on the block, who you can tell that they care about what they're
40:20
putting out, especially because the first thing on this road map is tons of
40:25
balance updates, bug fixes, and quality of life changes based on player feedback. That is the number one item uh
40:31
as this game launches that they're going to be more concerned with. Not putting more stuff in the shop like I'm looking
40:36
at you, Diablo. uh you know, hey, give us your give us your money and and get these silver coins or this platinum so
40:43
you can go buy buy these things, but I can't use my bear ability. Don't worry about that. Just buy the buy the buy the stuff in the shop. It'll be fine later.
40:49
Don't worry about it. Uh like I think that's really important, too. Like
40:54
Mhm. This is good. This is this is good. I have not had a chance to play this yet, which is a shame. I've been very busy
41:01
with work the last couple weeks. Uh if you care at home, light a candle and say a prayer for me, please. I would
41:06
appreciate it. Um, but it looks like something that I really do want to dive into, particularly with my friends. I
41:14
really would like to get in there and and and just make a ruckus. And it just
41:20
looks like a wild and fun time. So, Joe, for people who have not heard of this game, how would you describe it
41:26
to them? What's what's the synopsis? Because I'm a little distant from this one
41:32
myself. Sure. Okay. So, I want you to imagine if Sea of Thieves, Wild Star, and The
41:38
Division had a baby. Uh, so it is an anime over-the-top style space pirate
41:44
game that revolves around essentially extraction scenarios where you and your
41:49
crew are battling against other crew or crews, uh, trying to get resources,
41:54
scrap, whatever the the process is, and then get out of there before you get blown up. So, there's an element of PvP,
42:01
there's an element of resource management, there's an element of space combat, ship combat, uh, as well as
42:07
coordination and planning. Uh, it's it's basically everything that you can think
42:12
of of those genres, the best of trying to be like slammed down into one distilled uh, like format or font. And I
42:22
played in the beta. I played during the the closed beta and it was a ton of fun. And that's what complete strangers,
42:29
right? Like with an unfinished game. Complete strangers who I'm not hopping on a discord with you. Sorry, buddy. Um,
42:36
like it was a blast. It played well. It was, you know, visually stunning,
42:41
visually interesting. And then now it's released and now everybody has access to it. I think that's really cool. And
42:47
they're also talking about doing stuff like adding points of interest, um, adding new artifacts, which are like
42:53
upgrade things that you can put on there. uh adding more unlockable cosmetics, not purchasable cosmetics.
43:00
Thank you. I see you. Uh doing stuff like rare outfit drops, Twitch drops, login rewards like Guild Wars 2 does
43:07
where hey, you logged in every day this week. Here's a mount. Enjoy. Uh like they're they're really trying to give
43:15
you something that has a positive feedback loop while still making a good game and not try like it doesn't feel
43:21
like right now and it may change in the future. It doesn't feel like it's trying to ring you ring you dry of your wallet.
43:27
So, it does it does have on the list an in-game cosmetic shop. Yep. So, it's not
43:33
like there's no microtransactions, but that's one thing on a pretty long list of things they're going to be doing. And
43:41
I'm not big on PvP games, so I'm watching this from a distance. But another later in the year, they have new
43:47
prospectors, which are those are your kind of classes, characters you're playing. I know there is an adorable
43:53
like space owl one right now that it's it's like I'm really into this, but I'm
44:00
not super into the PvP elements, but uh I I'm watching this one. This one
44:06
looks really cool. It's It's one of those It's one of those that you need a group of friends, I think, to get the most out of it. Go
44:12
ahead. Yeah. Yeah, probably. So, no, I was basically going to say I'm not social enough in my gaming anymore. Like
44:20
I used to be like a big like I used to play like WoW with like 40 people. I I
44:26
was I was one of those people who was like, you know, always down for the social aspect and it just I I lost that.
44:33
I I I only play WoW nowadays just because I love WoW.
44:38
I I will say one other thing to point out there too is this doesn't necessarily have to strictly be PvP.
44:44
There is an AI uh versus AI mode that you can play with your friends. So you can get into these battles and
44:50
extraction scenarios versus AI. You don't have to play against other players. So like
44:56
Yeah, but it's not even that. It's not just the fact that it's PvP necessarily.
45:01
It's the fact that it is group content. No, no, I understand that as far as the AI stuff. I mean, I don't
45:07
I haven't played it, so maybe you could solo the whole thing. Uh but it doesn't feel like that.
45:13
Just trying to respond to Liz's concern about not really enjoying PvP. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, it still does look
45:19
really cool. Um, it does look like it's got an interesting It kind of reminds me, although not in any It doesn't none
45:26
of nothing. It does reminds me of this, but the fact that it's different from most other stuff, kind of reminds me of
45:31
Rocket League. Yeah. There's just in that it has its own identity, it own feeling. Yeah. You know, you don't you don't go Rocket
45:38
League and go, "Oh god, another driving a car with rockets on it into a golf
45:44
game." drowning in those, you know, it's it's like this this thing is its own
45:50
thing. Yeah. So, that that at least I would say. Oh, Pokemon presents was today. I didn't know that they were
45:55
doing that. So, yeah. I I I threw this in here last minute as something I did want to talk about real quick just cuz I know we have
46:02
a lot of players and listeners at home that do play Pokemon games of different varieties. Uh, so I just kind of wanted
46:08
to throw this out there. Uh, so we did get a release date for Pokemon ZA Legends uh, which is the new uh, game
46:16
that's releasing for the Switch uh, and Switch 2 uh, this year. It's very much
46:21
like Archus Legends where it's taking place in a the timeline of uh, the games
46:27
but not quite uh, a mainline game uh, which we now I think it's October 11th
46:33
it will be released. Uh, and they're doing a whole bunch of mega evolutions. It looks like there's potentially if the
46:39
leaks are going to be uh believed and what their hints are in the background of the video. 25 new Pokemon will get
46:46
mega evolutions. The one that they showed off was Mega Dragonite which combined Dragonite with Dratini where it
46:52
had little wings on it or big wings on its head and a little ball on its tail and looks super super cute. Uh so folks,
46:57
if they're excited about that, that's good for them. The other thing is I know a game that a lot of people of our
47:04
generation uh and I'm saying this as somebody in my my 40s maybe remembers from their youth on the Nintendo 64 was
47:11
Pokemon Colosseum uh which was a beloved game for a lot of folks. Uh well they
47:16
kind of brought it back except it's not called Pokemon Colosseum. It's called Pokemon Champions whereas Pokemon it's
47:22
100% Pokemon Colosseum. Uh but you don't have to just upload your own Pokemon to the game. Uh you can also collect them
47:29
and and find them in the game world itself. Uh and you go and do battles and it's really really fun. Uh they also
47:36
release a bunch of cutesy game stuff, puzzle games, some mobile game stuff. I don't want to spend too long on it. But the thing I did also want to mention is
47:43
they releasing a new show on September 4th called Pokemon Concier. Uh it is
47:48
coming on Netflix, but it's something that people may be interested in. It is the cutest thing I have seen ever, and I
47:55
wanted to scream watching this. It's stop motion. It is felt felted figures
48:02
and stop motion. Wow. It is phenomenally like it just looks
48:08
absolutely gorgeous. New though. I don't want people to think it's new cuz this is a good this back in
48:14
2023 when this came out. This was one of the few pieces of Pokemon media that actually grabbed me. Yes.
48:19
Cuz it's it's not just cute. It's not just sweet. It's heart-rending at times.
48:24
Yes. Like this is one of those weird things where you can go into it with absolutely no knowledge of Pokemon and
48:30
come out of it going I I can't believe they didn'tite like you know seriously it's it's it's
48:37
really good. Uh, so I was, if you hadn't mentioned it, I was going to. Yeah, I was absolutely going to mention
48:43
it. And then I was going to say that uh the the only thing is if you do play Pokemon Go still, uh, mega evolutions are coming
48:49
there, including Eternis will be or Eternitus will be available as one of the raids. Um, and then the last thing,
48:58
if you are still playing Pokemon, uh, Violet and Scarlet, which some of us are because I went back to it now that I
49:04
have a Switch, too. Uh they're doing a new section of Terror Raid Battles that
49:09
have the four sub mythical uh uh Pokemon from the shrines that you
49:15
could unlock in shiny form that you can go ahead and get starting tomorrow as of the time of this recording. So July
49:21
23rd. Uh and they'll be doing it I think once they're going to be those raids every week. They're going to switch for
49:27
the next four weeks. So if you're interested in Pokemon stuff, plenty of cool stuff coming down the pipeline. Oh,
49:34
and since we talk about this all the time when Corey's here, um, did you know that there's a Pokemon MOA?
49:41
I did not. And it is very good. Uh, and it is free to play on your switches. It's called
49:46
Pokemonite. I've actually played a metric ton of it. Uh, but it's the fourth anniversary of it actually this
49:52
August. Um, and then they're adding new characters. They're adding new costumes.
49:58
if you want to have you want to play as Gyarados riding around in a pirate costume. You absolutely can. You play as
50:03
the Pokemon in a tower battle system game. Um so if you're interested in that, again, it's free uh free to play.
50:11
You can feel free to check it out if you have a Switch or a Switch 2. Uh but talk about not abandoning a game just because
50:17
it didn't do well in its first year. Looking at you, Blizzard. Uh yeah, like it. There you go. I just wanted to add
50:24
some Pokemon news. they did shut it down in multiple regions. So for some players, they did
50:31
give up on it. Um but those that was related to whether or not they felt that
50:36
they could actually do like the the cash shop stuff they were doing. Yeah. Um legally they were legally like we're
50:42
going to get in trouble if we keep doing this game and we don't know how to stop it. I think it was Belgium and the
50:48
Netherlands uh were the big names that that they were banned in. Right. But I want to I want to I want I
50:53
want to push it back towards the positive though. If you are interested in this type of stuff, check and see if it's available in your region. It might
50:59
not be. Thank you, Matt, for catching that. But it's still a fun and light and fluffy and fun time. I just I just
51:05
remembered because I was like, "Wow, Belgium. Who knew you guys were coming out that hard?" Uh you went out the idea
51:12
that Belgium, which I think has a population smaller than the actual Pokemon company, was going after them
51:19
caught my attention. Uh but at this point, um Liz, do you mind doing your uh
51:25
your information for people that we can then ask some questions? I I want to say thank you to all of our
51:32
supporters on Patreon. You guys are what makes this site possible. And I do want
51:38
to say we're about $500 lower than we would like to be on Patreon. We're doing
51:43
okay. The site, the podcast's not going anywhere. And uh but if you are able to
51:49
support us financially, it does really help us out. Patreon with uh kind of
51:54
we're living in a world where ad revenue is lower than it used to be and it's just harder to get by as an independent
52:01
site. That's just that is the way of the world. So if you are able to support us
52:07
financially, we really appreciate it. You can go to patreon.com/bizzardwatch.
52:12
If you support us at $3 a month, you will get early access to all of these podcasts as well as uh ad free. No one
52:21
likes ads. I understand. So, $3 a month early adree access to the podcast for $5
52:26
a month. You also get adree access to the website to read all of our news and
52:32
guides and uh the daily queue, which is always an interesting little ramble
52:38
along with our community. Oh, if you can support us financially, thank you very
52:44
much. patreon.com/blizzardwatch. If you can't, I get it. Uh, but
52:50
listening to the show really helps us. Reading the website really helps us. And sharing, liking, subscribing any of our
52:57
content really, really helps us so other people can read the site and see what we're doing. That helps so much. If you
53:05
want to follow us on social media, we are Blizzard watch on Instagram threads,
53:11
Twitter, Facebook, and Mastadon at gamepad.club. If you do want to follow
53:16
us, I would recommend uh Blue Sky or Mastadon cuz those actually show things in a chronological order, whereas some
53:24
of these things kind of they feed you what they think you want to see. So, if you want to see all of our stuff, uh
53:29
Blue Sky and Mastadon, just my personal recommendation, we're all these places. Uh we are blizzardwatch.com on blue sky
53:36
and blizzardwatchodcasts on YouTube. That's the best way to keep up with it uh without just staring at
53:43
the website all day, which is tough. If you want to help set, you could also fill out our podcast survey, which you
53:49
can find at bit.ly/blizzardwatchpodcast-servey.
53:56
I know that's that's a whole lot. You will also find it linked in the description below. And uh whether you
54:03
support us on Patreon, whether you read the site, whether you just listen to our podcast, I appreciate you. Thank you so
54:09
much for being here. Uh and thank you Liz for doing that so that I don't have to try to remember all that cuz I wouldn't be able to. Um we
54:17
got a couple questions. I think we can try to get through them. So first one is from Tetsmi, who's a Patreon supporter.
54:23
Uh TMI is going to want to ask us this following question. Would you rather a
54:28
game run for 20 plus years or would you rather it reinvent itself every 5 to seven years but allow you to transfer
54:35
your progress from the previous iteration of the game? Uh
54:40
go ahead whoever wants to answer this first. I mean that's a tough question because I think a lot of us have been playing
54:45
World of Warcraft for around 20 years. Yeah. Um, and you know, the game has run
54:53
consistently for 20 years, but at the same time, if you look at World of Warcraft today and you go back and play
54:58
the original World World of Warcraft from 2004, those are not the same game.
55:06
Yeah, I feel like WoW really does has reinvented itself every few years. uh
55:11
maybe not to the point some companies do, but I mean every expansion has been, you
55:17
know, it's a little bit of iteration and once you stretch that out over all of this, you get a really different game
55:23
than where we started over. So, I frankly think you can you can kind of do both. And if you want a consistent
55:31
character progression, then it's frankly pretty hard to do that if you're like
55:38
reinventing the game and just transferring characters over because there's only so much reinventing you can
55:45
do on core systems and also pull those characters over. So, I I kind of lean
55:53
towards enjoying this World of Warcraft style where the game keeps going, but it also evolves and it doesn't stay the
55:59
same. Though, it is it is nice to have the WoW classic option. So, you can go back in time if you want to.
56:04
Joe, I personally think that if it's a server game or an MMO or something like
56:10
that, it should be constantly evolving. uh maybe not at a break neck pace, but
56:15
every few years, like you said, maybe every five to seven years or or two to five years, somewhere in that range. Uh
56:22
because as time marches on, two things happen inevitably. We get older and
56:28
technology improves. And as we get older, and we've talked about this on the podcast a lot, our our needs shift.
56:36
And if you want to keep your audience engaged, you need to present something that like fits into those needs. Whereas
56:44
in my 20s, I could sit here for 13 hours a day farming Blood of Heroes uh just to
56:51
make sure that I had enough stuff to craft what I needed to go into raid. Uh I can't do that anymore, or at least I
56:57
don't want to do that anymore. uh having all the convenience systems we have in place now. And you even see this in
57:03
classic where a lot of the uh quality of life stuff was ported back into it at
57:10
several points to give players a better experience than we had because again the
57:16
audience has shifted. It's not the same as it was back then. We weren't willing to accept the same grind trains that we
57:22
were uh when EverQuest was King of the Hill, right? or or um why am I blanking
57:29
on the other one that everybody played? Ultima uh right online. Yeah, those online.
57:34
Yeah, those were all games that you had to grind an insane amount to do anything with. Yeah, people talk about how grindy WoW
57:40
was back then, but compared to the games that preceded it in Yeah, it was a it was a quantum shift.
57:46
It was it was actually when World of Warcraft came out, it was kind of revolutionary that you could level by
57:53
doing quests. you could just do story quests the entire way whereas in other
57:58
MMOs you were expected just okay you get do some quests but then you're just going to kill the tigers for the
58:05
it was revolutionary that there was an auction house like you didn't just set up a stall outside of a city or inside
58:10
of a city and sell your wares like you actually were able to like put them in a an essentially an escrow and walk away
58:18
and come back and have money sweet like these are these are wild concepts and
58:23
then there are other games that do this too. Like League of Legends is one I will call out specifically because it at
58:29
its core it's still the same game. Like it has the same roots. You still do the same type of things. But over the years
58:36
things have changed. Whether it's the idea of character balance, character identity, accessibility to the game, the
58:41
amount of game modes available to it, how they deal with monetization, how they deal with skins, how they deal
58:47
with, I'm going to air quote the current loot boxes, which are no longer the only way to get anything. um and how the
58:55
actual like Summoner's Rift has evolved over time has all shifted based off of
59:00
players getting older and wanting different things, right? And then there are other games that will eternally stay
59:06
forever in the same way that they always were, right? Like Smite one will never
59:11
evolve. It'll never change. And now Smite 2 is coming out and there's a ton of struggles with that because it's
59:17
trying to be Smite one again. So like you could go both ways, but I'd already have Smite one. Why are you
59:22
giving us it again? You don't need Smite one and a half. I I personally would rather a game do
59:28
something to maybe not reinvent itself, but update itself periodically to stay
59:34
relevant. It's one of the reasons I've stuck with WoW for so long. WoW continues to evolve and give you easier
59:42
access to things that are fun. And yes, you rating is still several hours, but
59:48
it doesn't feel like the grind that it used to be. like it doesn't feel as inaccessible as it used to be. And
59:54
yeah, also you got to admit it's still several hours, but the several goes to like three or four, not to eight or nine
1:00:02
or or when like you would take four hours to go to the raid and then take two hour break not to have a break, but
1:00:07
to go farm that so you can go for another two hours, right? You ran you ran out of resist
1:00:12
potions or you ran out of resist gear or you didn't have enough gold for repairs or whatever the case is. Like
1:00:18
soul shards. soul shard. The number of times I have had to leave a raid and go outside and kill things to
1:00:25
get my soul shard count back up. Running out of ammunition as a hunter, right?
1:00:31
Like the game has continued to evolve and make itself more accessible. And therefore, I continue to play it and I
1:00:36
would rather a game do that than remain the same way it is for 20 plus years because at that point there's a very
1:00:42
good chance that I'm going to check out. Yeah. Um, it also like one of the things Joe and I were talking about this I
1:00:48
think a couple of weeks back and uh we were talking about games that have
1:00:54
lasted you know 10 years 20 years uh sometimes because of modders sometimes
1:01:00
because the company like you know will event will do things inside that thing.
1:01:06
Um, and one of the points Joe made that I thought was pretty interesting is that a lot of times if a game doesn't change
1:01:12
and update in any way, it becomes unplayable, like physically unplayable
1:01:17
because it is designed to run on a computer that you are not playing it on or you can no longer replace or
1:01:24
a hottest top-of-the-line game console or game, you know, gaming computer from
1:01:30
2012 is a relic now. It is 13 years old. Um,
1:01:37
if you go back and try to play like one of the reasons that that sometimes I like it when Steam or or GOG has an old
1:01:44
game and they just it's not updated, it's just ported. Why is that important?
1:01:49
Because try to play the original disc of Diablo in your current PC. if you even
1:01:56
have a disc drive to load it with and the the the the game is like, "Oh, I'm
1:02:02
supposed to play this at this speed." And you're like, "No, no, this is far too fast for this this ancient." So, if
1:02:08
you're not doing something to keep the game current, eventually it just becomes lost media because it becomes
1:02:15
unplayable. If you can't play it, it might as well not exist. And so I think
1:02:20
live service/multiplayer games have a leg up on this because since they are
1:02:26
expected to be played by groups of people and they tend to have new content released for them, they get updated by
1:02:33
the sheer fact that they have to run the new content. But looking at this question, it reminded me immediately of
1:02:39
the EverQuest versus EverQuest 2 situation. Uh when Sony, at the time Sony, I pretty sure it's completely
1:02:45
different company now. I don't even remember who owns the both of them anymore. Daybreak, I think. Uh, but when
1:02:52
it originally released EverQuest 2, it did so as a completely new game and they
1:02:57
were still going to run EverQuest, so you could play either one. I don't think they gave you a ton of a
1:03:02
ton of trans transfer, but I I don't know. The other thing is EverQuest one remained very popular. Yes.
1:03:08
In some at least at sometimes it was more popular than EverQuest 2. I don't think EverQuest 2 has ever been
1:03:14
more popular than EverQuest. Yeah. I don't I don't know what the numbers look like these days, but but they're both here.
1:03:21
They're both still here and they both have had staying power. Yeah, but it's still it does split the
1:03:27
it splits the base in a way that having one game that just changes and evolves over time doesn't split things. And I
1:03:35
know that they have WoW Classic, but Blizzard very wisely made WoW Classic,
1:03:41
you know, part of the subscription plan for just WoW. So, if you subscribe, you
1:03:46
get both games. So, it's not it doesn't separate the player base as much. They're still playing different versions
1:03:51
of it, but they're still all in that big pool of people who play this game. I I
1:03:57
think ultimately that that's something that sticks with me. Uh, and it's one of
1:04:02
those things that about depending on the kind of game like like Joe just mentioned, League of Legends, another game that has pretty broad multiplayer.
1:04:09
That's its existence. It's a multiplayer game. You don't you don't log in for a rousing game of an against the AI League
1:04:17
of Legends very often as far as I know. I'm pretty sure that you don't do it at all. But in terms of like games like say
1:04:23
Fallout, I'm I'm playing right now. I've got on my computer. I've got Fallout 3,
1:04:29
Fallout New Vegas, and Fallout 4. And I I switch between them. I play the
1:04:34
various one. I if it is difficult to play two of those games right now, even
1:04:41
with mod support, they they have not been updated in years. There has been no
1:04:46
remaster. There has been no nextg update. They they run as they ran almost
1:04:53
20 years ago now. 2006 for uh Fallout 3 and I think 2008 for Fallout New Vegas.
1:05:01
That's a long time. And it's especially a long time when it's Bethesda who recently caught Warner Brothers stealing
1:05:08
from them by realizing that the bugs in their Westworld game were the same bugs
1:05:15
that were in Fallout Shelter when it came out. It's literally the same code. And Bethesda finding out that somebody
1:05:21
was stealing their game by re recognizing the bugs is the most Bethesda thing I've ever heard of in my
1:05:27
life. But it's still it is the case that these games get unplayable if you don't
1:05:33
have something bringing them up to the current age. Like when Joe said that it blew my mind and I I didn't have a re
1:05:38
response at the time, but since that I've been thinking about it's like yeah, if these it literally with with games like this, it's evolve or die. It
1:05:46
literally is evolve or die. You become essentially just a relic. So I would
1:05:52
prefer to see a game last and update than to see, okay, it's been six years. here's a new game cuz now that old game
1:05:59
is just going to rot and there's stuff there. If you tie a new game to
1:06:05
importing characters from an old game, what happens in another five years? Do you then import that character again?
1:06:11
That ties your hands in terms of what you can do in the new game. If you're making a new game, like it should have
1:06:18
the freedom to be new. So that's where I and you've seen you've seen games like
1:06:24
EverQuest and Guild Wars both make that break. It's a new game with new characters. Yeah. And it's a new game and they did
1:06:31
and they they've embraced that and I think it worked for them. And at the same time, if you look at EverQuest, EverQuest one still gets new
1:06:38
content and still gets expansion. There is active development on both EverQuest one and EverQuest 2. So they've they've
1:06:46
made that work for them with just running two games. Done that too, hasn't they? Yeah, I I'm not I'm not sure about Guild
1:06:52
Wars 1. Do you know, Joe? Sorry, say that again. Does Guild Wars still get development
1:06:58
outside of Guild Wars 2? Like, is the original game still getting developed? Uh, I don't know that it is. I think it
1:07:04
might be getting like some stuff. Yeah, but I don't think it's an active develop
1:07:10
active development. I don't think so. I mean, we could I mean, we could also talk about the fact that Destiny is still trying to sell me the Taken King,
1:07:16
but I don't think that's the same thing. No, I don't think so. Liz, you were talking. So, go on.
1:07:21
No, I'm I'm done. That's why I was confused. I I carry on. I don't have anything to
1:07:27
say. Okay. Uh I think we're pretty much done with this question. Um and I think we're basically done. Uh it's it's late enough
1:07:35
that we we're done which means unfortunately we don't get to the second question but we got a question which is
1:07:41
we'll get it next week. Uh so yeah um at this point you you Liz
1:07:46
you did the yeah you did the the info dump which is very important. Um I will just say then that this has been the
1:07:52
Blizzard watch podcast. Thank you guys so much for being here with us. Uh you make this show and all the other things we do possible. Um we'll be back next
1:08:00
week.
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