Danger from Diamond Comic Distributors (and more tabletop news)

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[Music]
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Hail and well met traveler. Welcome to the tavern. Did you know this is the place where more than half of the
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greatest adventures in history have begun? But before those adventurers took their first steps, they watched and
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calculated who would join their party. Why, look over there. There's a mighty barbarian from the frozen lands. Strong,
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mighty, full of honor and wisdom. I happen to know that one. They go by Matt
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Rossy. And look over there to the right. That woman working away on her mechanical
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dog. She's cunning, witty, and I've seen her bounce more than her fair share of
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nerd wells out of here before I can even blink. I happen to know that she goes by the name Liz Harper.
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And me? Oh, my name's Joe Perez and I'll be your tavern keeper.
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Welcome to Tavern Watch. Hi everybody and welcome to Tavern Watch, the podcast
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where we talk about RPG and RPG games of all types and occasionally other things, but we're sticking pretty closely to the
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RPG stuff here. Uh with me this week are Joe Perez, uh Liz Harper, and Phil
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Urick, who's basically just You're here now, right, Phil? I'm just here now. Awesome. Um so yeah, usually what we do
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is talk about games and so forth that we're doing. Like we have a little intro thing we usually do. So, we're going to
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start with that. Um, going to say, Liz, what are you reading, playing, or
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looking forward to? Anything you want to talk about right now? Uh, you know, I'm looking forward to I
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backed a Kickstarter for something called City of the Black Rose. Has anyone else heard of this one?
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Heard of but don't know much about it? So, yeah, it's a it's a noir horror setting
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that seems really cool. uh designed by the people behind three black halflings which uh just uh wrapped up a
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Kickstarter probably do out end of this year maybe for backers. So I'm looking forward to reading that but you know
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it's like way in the future I want to read it now. That's how it always goes. Uh and I just
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picked up Kickstarter. Yeah. Yeah. It's like you get so enthusiastic and then it's all the waiting and
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there's so many cool tabletop projects on Kickstarter lately. I also just picked up uh Yazba's Bed and Breakfast,
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which I feel like I'm kind of behind the times on that one, but looking forward to getting into reading that. And just
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really wishing I had more tabletop games to play because my regular weekly monthly group kind of fell apart. So,
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it's just just playing with you guys, which is also really fun. I appreciate it. I'm sorry that that's all you got.
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Yeah, but I more it's I want to play more games. There are so many great games out there and I
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want to be playing them and and I'm just playing a game a month with you guys, which is great. But more games, please.
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Please. I I love you climbing out of this hole and then digging another little little bit deeper. It's It's very adorable.
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All right, then. I'm trying. Now that Liz has made us all feel good about ourselves.
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Phil, uh, anything you want to cover here? Uh, we love you, Liz. Uh, I'm just running one game a month for Tavern
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Watch. That's all. No. Uh, no, I'm good. Um, I got uh I just literally as we were
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sitting down to record um I ran downstairs because my physical copy of Mythic Bastion Land arrived ahead of
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schedule. So, shout out to Plus One Experience who is shipping that in the US. um who uh due to so they had uh
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about 2 weeks ago they had the uh the fulfillment for the Kickstarter to handle plus about 20 orders and then uh
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the YouTube channel Quinn's Quest uh who featuring one of the uh primary uh I
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guess reviewers who was also on Shut Up and Sit Down, which used to do board games. Uh Quinton Smith now does um
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tabletop reviews. um posted a very affusive 40minute or so review of Mythic Bastion
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Land. Uh Chris McDow, the creator, then sent a little note to Plus1 XP that said, "Hey, you all may see a small bump
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in sales from this." Um they went from the Kickstarter plus 20 orders to the
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Kickstarter plus 500 orders, and I believe that has doubled in the time since then. So, they were saying July
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28th to even ship this game, but it arrived today. Okay. So, I ran down to get it because it's raining here and I
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didn't want UPS to just leave it in the rain, which of course they did. Um, so yeah, uh, new book to read. Um, I've
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been reading been flipping through a lot of different books. Uh, this Fabula Ultima and Shadow Dark. Shadow Dark
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because I may be running that in the near future and the other two because as uh people who follow me on social media
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may have seen me complaining. Um, I want to run one of these games and but I need
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to settle on one and I'm being very indecisive about it. Um, so just um more games than I know
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what to do with at this point. Um, trying to stay away from Kickstarter, but like Liz, I do love the video. I do
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love the RPG Kickstarters. It's like it I have to I have I have to not think about them, though. I have to think of
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it as a gift to future Phil. So, I'm like, yes, I'm going to put down this 60
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or 70 or $80 or whatever, and I'm going to not think about it, and in like a year and a half, it'll show up, and I'll
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just be very excited and surprised. So, um, that's what I've been doing. The crowdfunding at this point is kind of
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like the Steam sales except it's it's more 70 or $80 and you have no idea when this thing is going to come around.
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Yeah. But, uh, I'll at least read them. Unlike, you know, My Body is machine that turns Steam sales into zero hours
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played. Yeah, there is that, too. Yeah. Uh, Joe, do you have anything you want
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to talk about? I mean, I'm just going through the outgun books uh in preparation for our next uh our next
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live play. So, uh that's really about all I've got on my docket right now is
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just making sure I know what the heck I'm doing cuz that seems like a good idea. Know what you're doing? What?
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No. What is this thing you're saying? It's It's so odd to me. I don't know. If there's anybody I trust
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to wing it, it's probably John. Yeah, I mean that is in fact what I was going to say. Fair, but I'd still like
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to understand the mechanics of the game. So, like, you know, that's true. I'm very excited about the idea of this game if if I get to play it
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just because I I've heard handful of dice and I'm into it. Yeah. I mean, it's a fun game.
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I was going to say at most like the at the absolute most you will only ever need 76.
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So, like you're ne almost never going to get to up to that, but I mean you can.
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And it's very much like Power by the Apocalypse in a lot of ways, right? It's It's very cinematic, very uh you guys
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dictate sort of the story and I just throw obstacles in your way whenever you do bad. Yeah. Uh so, anything else you've been
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reading or is that it pretty much? That's pretty much it. Okay. for me. And this is ironic because
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somebody else mentioned this in the document and we're going to talk about it later maybe, but I am currently
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reading Ashes Without Number, which is my first OSR game in a very long time
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because I usually generally don't necessarily get too into old, you know, the old system renaissance type games
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because they're basically all variations on AD and D. And I I like that AD and D
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is not the D and D we play any I am not one of those people who who wants to bring it back. But this one's really
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fun. Um honestly my first thought about hearing on it and I didn't hear about it
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I heard about it last week for the first time and so I was like oh post-apocalyptic.
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Uh so it is basically the describing I would do for it if I was going to
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describe it is this is Fallout if they made Fallout now. or this is Gamma World
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if they made Gamma World now. And it's basically the OSR stuff is pretty much
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what you'd expect. It's rules for playing in a post-apocalyptic game. But what's really interesting is the
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character campaign and the campaign creation system where you can basically
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it helps you design your what exactly you want your apocalypse to be. Like are
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you in a is it is this a zombie apocalypse? Is this a we don't know what happened? Is it just a straight up
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nuclear war? Is it, you know, hundreds of years ago, society fell and and now we have weird stuff going on? Uh, it
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it's really a toolkit for making your own, you know, gamma world, Fallout or
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whatever, you know, Wastelands, whatever you're trying to make, it's this is the toolkit for it. You want to do one where
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it the zombie apocalypse just happened and now you have to play characters going through it, you can do that. Do
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you want to instead do a game like Fallout where 200 years ago the war happened? You can do that. Do you want
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to go like Gamma World did and say, "Hey, we don't have no idea when it happened. Could have been thousands of years ago. We got no clue. We just know
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that everything is different now and there are talking bears." Um, there's a
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lot of variety to it and it's it's really fun and it's it's stripped down
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enough from OSR that you could just use 5e with it and it would be fine. you
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would not struggle in any way. Uh I I'm actually thinking I might try a powered
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by the apocalypse system for it. Uh quite frankly, I might not use the OSR rules. I'll just use all the the stuff
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about making a campaign. But it's really interesting. Uh I I'm really fond of it.
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I I have been reading it pretty much for like the past half hour. Uh just been going through it, going through it,
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going through it. Um thinking this is really neat. And then I saw the document and like oh we're going to talk about
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it. Nice. That means I can just talk about it now. And so there I have. Uh, as for what I'm looking forward to,
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Outgun Superheroes is coming out. And since Joe is going to be running an OutGun game next week, next month. Uh,
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sorry, not next week. You're doing it next week, Joe. Sorry. Um, no. I I I'm interested in seeing the system as a
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whole before I then go and and mess around with the superhero one because anytime anybody puts out a new superhero
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game, I'm pretty much like, "Okay, I have to play this now." Yeah, that's pretty much it for me. So, uh, now we
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move on to talking about the oped, which is kind of like we we have opinions. I'm
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sure we we don't all have opinions. What the heck? Uh, this one is the question asked was, "Why are there so many games
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releasing rules light adaptations/versions?" And we have three just coming out or
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coming out soon or being worked on or having a Kickstarter. First is the Shadowrun Anarchy 2.0, know, which is a
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rules light system for Shadowrun that you guys know Shadow Run. Um, there's Exalted Essence, which came out, I think
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about 5 months ago. Uh, I have a copy of it. It's it's actually pretty nice, but it's a very it's it's it's basically
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still the storyteller, storytelling, whatever they currently call it, system, but way simplified. Like, third edition
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exalted got to the point where, you know, the book is 700 something pages long. you you can you know it makes
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Palisanta look small. You could throw it at people and possibly crush them. Um
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and so this is you know Exalted Essence much shorter. Uh the rules are simpler.
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And finally we know that Fallout Wasteland Warfare is getting a new second edition coming out and they've
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specifically said that it they're stripping down the rules that they're making it a rules light version. So,
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that's at least three adaptations going for Rules Light in recent time. And I'm
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going to say straight up, I think that there's this is because of indie games. I think it is because of games like all
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the various Power by the Apocalypse ones, the Forged in the Dark ones. They're just
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I mean, can we can we can we even call things like Avatar for Magpie Indie at this point? No. No. Well, we can because it's
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Magpie. Magpie still is not a big company, but the fact that they had a Kickstarter that big, that that's a fair
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point. There's an appetite for it, right? Yeah. I will say Magpie is actually still small enough that pulling enough
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people out of that Avatar game to work on it actually delayed other things that were happening at the same time, which uh was why Urban Shadows took so long.
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Mhm. So, still an indie company even if the game uh even if they're attracting some big licenses to these uh lighter games,
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I'd say. Yeah. And that's fair to point out that like even Fallout is a pretty big
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license. Uh so yeah, I don't know. I do think it's weird, but when I said I
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blame indie games, I don't blame indie games for the the companies making these because I don't think you you really can call Onyx Path an indie company. I don't
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know. It's weird. Modivious is on that weird cusp, too, right? Like Yeah, absolutely. I I think maybe indie games is no longer
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a term to be really applied unless it's like a zen or something like that. it was an established company. I think it's
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just it's it's Wizards of the Coast or Hasbro, then Piso, and then literally
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everybody else, right? Like it's just Yeah, it's fair. Uh but I mean more in terms of like the fact
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that the rise of those game systems, the ones I mentioned like Powered by the
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Apocalypse came from like 10 years ago when those companies were a lot more
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indie than what they are now. Yeah. Which is absolutely fair. But I think I think the rise is and I I want
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to move away from focusing on the indie portion of it cuz I think ahead that's disingenuous a little bit. Um is just
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that in a world where Dn D is the dominant or was the dominant role
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playing game of choice that you saw everywhere. Dn D has a ton of rules.
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There are rules for literally everything. There are frameworks to do everything from, you know, penning books
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to hiring uh to stabling to, you know, husbandry and all this other stuff. Like
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there are rules for everything in D and D. And it can get a bit over complicated. And the barrier to entry
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for D and D is actually still even now pretty large for most people because
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it's this this fear of there's so much I need to know or I'm just not going to be
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able to do anything. Whether that fear is founded or not depends on your group and and a lot of other factors. But you
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know 10 years ago, 5 years ago, however long ago, games like Monster of the Week
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be and and other Power by the Apocalypse stuff and other rule simple games became
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really popular. And it was even before that we saw like little things getting footooth holes like the like the triat
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system um or Numano. Oh man, hold on. I got to pour one out. But I we can pour one out for that. But
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I'm just saying like those were all really simple by comparison to Dn D. There were less stats to track. they
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were things that were done under umbrellas of stuff. The the rules for figuring out whether you succeeded or not were very simple. Uh so like those
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became more popular with people because those became a lower barrier for entry for people to start playing tabletop games. And I think that right there, I
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think it's almost like D&D ate its own tail a little bit is what made these
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type of games become more popular and why we are seeing a lot of other game
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systems look at that and go maybe we should lighten up the rules a little bit because D and D is not the gold standard
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anymore. Like I'll use Modifius as the example for this. I love Modifius games. I love uh I love their 2D20 system. I
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like the Ess system that the other I can't remember the name of the company off the top of my head. Uh but they use for like the G.I. Joe, Transformers,
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Power Rangers games. The problem is those games have a lot of rules that you can see are like on par with Dn D. Like
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they're good games, but you're you have as much stuff to go through and figure out. releasing a rules light version or
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a more simplified version actually opens up more opportunities for people and then lets them engage potentially with
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those IPs that would draw them into the hobby space to begin with. And I have this conversation at the shop a lot with
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uh one of our regulars, which I'm not going to say his name because I don't know if he wants me to. Um but I know he listens to the podcast, so you know who
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you are. Shout out. Um, but we talk about this a lot because when you read the rules, if I sit down at a table with
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a bunch of new people or a bunch of people that are just looking for a game that isn't D and D, it's a lot easier
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for me to sell them on, hey, let's try this game. Do you got 2d6? That's all you need, right? Like it it becomes I
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mean, hell, I sold you guys on playing Shadow Run by making it powered by the
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apocalypse by doing it all in in like the the fantasy version of the sprawl, right? Like that's what you guys played.
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You didn't play Shadow Run because Shadow Run's buckets of D6. That's awful to play. Yeah, it is.
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Right. Renegade. Thank you. Yeah. And I've been reading this since Matt linked at this. Anarchy actually
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sounds way more accessible even than uh regular Shadow Run. And does sound like they're leaning hard into imitating
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almost like a Blades in the Dark setup. You know, it does definitely feel like that they are inspired by Blades of the Dark,
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which is one of the things I thought when I saw it. That's why I mentioned Forge in the Dark. I didn't just keep it. Why can't I
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remember the name of the system? I just mentioned it. Oh well. Um but you know it it does feel very blaz.
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But um anything else? Uh Liz, you haven't gotten to talk much. No, carry on. Okay. Um
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I mean I it's it's an interesting trend and you know I think about our own games
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in which you know we playing a monthly game and we have played a lot of rules
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light system. You know, when we're doing a oneshot, then sometimes you don't want something
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that's going to require buckets of rules and a lot of preparation. And we have done, you know, we've
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managed to do three Polymorph system games, which those are as simple as it
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maybe not as simple as it gets, but extremely simple games that have Yeah,
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they're a limited amount of depth and complexity. They're really fun to play as a oneshot, and they're very approachable. you can just you can
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really just pick up and play and learn what you're doing as you go along.
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So, it's it's accessibility. This makes games more accessible to more people.
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And if they're more accessible, that means more people are buying, more people are playing, that means more life
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for the whole tabletop industry. So, it's it's good to have an option. And I I h I do like a big crunchy complicated
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tabletop game, but also sometimes you just want something straightforward where you can jump in and play and
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pretend to be a totally different person than you are, which sometimes that's all
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you want. One of the things that this reminds me of though, which is why I'm a little concerned about it, is I don't know how
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many people remember when Dungeons and Dragons was two games. I I think probably Joe Phil and I all remember it
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to some degree. Yep. Back when regular D and D and AD and D co uh co cohabitated or coexisted,
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I guess. And and the thing is is that first off that doesn't quite match this because
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you cannot argue that original D and D was simpler or more rules than AD and D.
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It just had different complicated rules. Um but still it does kind of remind me
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that there's going to be like which shadow run are you playing right now? You could actually be like which exalted are you? Um, and that is to me weird.
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Like it feels like if you want to make it simpler, just make it simpler. Don't necessarily have this version but also
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that version. But at the same time, that's not my call. I don't own these IPs. But it does I do think about it
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when I think about what what they're doing. The fact that they are essentially trying to make an intro version of the game and like what's is
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the purpose of this to try and get people to eventually play the other version of the game? like is this
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supposed to be training wheels or is this supposed to be a game on its own? And the Anarchy one, the Anarchy 2.0
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does not feel like it's attempting to onroad anybody into Shadowrun. It feels like that's the game you will be
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playing. If you pick that game up, Shadow Run Anarchy, you would be playing Shadow Run Anarchy. You will not there's
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it just there's no reason to. Um you would never want to play both of them. And that I don't I don't know if that's
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on purpose. I I I just feel like it's interesting to see the industry doing this. Um you're definitely seeing that
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with Fallout because Fallout is getting a second edition and the second edition is going to be rules like so the first
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edition I mean I mean I assume people can still play the first edition but it will not be competing with the second
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edition at least they're usually not well the the interesting thing about the Fallout one is this isn't a rules light
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version of the RPG. This is a rules light version of their miniatures war game. Um, specific because it's Wasteland
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Warfare, which is the the the Fallout minis game Medifius also publishes, but second edition also specifically
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says it is a solo first adventure war game where players can explore a procedurally generated wasteland. That
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is wild because that is like what people do with solo tabletop games like uh a
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lot of you know dice rolling for random mechanics a lot of uh like procedural generation consulting tables that kind
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of thing like but but with a minis format. So it's like if you want to get some minis and you want to paint them and you know have
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fun with that aspect of it and now you don't have to go oh but no one plays Fallout where I'm at. you have a game,
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they can now sell a minis game to people who don't have other people to play it with, which is a wild step forward for
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war games because like, well, lots of minis games rely on you kind of having somebody to play them with.
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No, I was going to say it's not necessarily that wild, but this is the first like major mainstream one to try
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to do that because try to do that. Osprey Games has been doing this for decades, right? So, like um Frost Grave,
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Star Grave, um what was the other one that I can't think of? The The Lord of the Rings has one. Um there's a bunch of
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miniature war games that have solo play rules for them where essentially they've
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written out how uh enemy AI works, right? Like how that that intelligence
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works and how you do it. And yes, you can cheat if you want to, but that defeats the whole purpose. Uh but it's
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like you they these games have already been doing I think I think even uh Gamma Wolves uh which is a more recent one
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which is hey you like mech games you have Gundams laying around the house you want to use those like models in a war
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game here you go has solo play rules. Um I think uh Car Wars has solo play rules.
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I want to say Gaslands has solo play rules. Car Wars Car Wars not only has solo play rules. Uh Car Wars used to actually have
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the one-on-one adventure path rules. M. Yep. Where it was there were two people and
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that's it. And they played like it played like a choose your own adventure type thing. It was really strange.
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But like it's it's it's nice to see it hit a more mainstream thing. Uh
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especially with Fallout Wasteland Warfare because well you mentioned like
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having cool models and going and doing it. There's a whole ton of like models available for Fallout Wasteland that
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have actually been released as 3D files either directly through uh the Modifius
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or also several Humble bundles have had nothing but Fallout like miniature packs
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like pay $10, get the entire library of all 3D printable uh miniatures for
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Fallout Wasteland Warfare. So like that was a very cool thing to encourage. Shut up Medifius. Well, and you we're
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going to talk about that probably a little bit later, but like that's the way of the future, right? And Modifius
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is just sort of embracing it and I'm I'm here for it. All right. I think at this point we probably should move on though because
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we do have other topics. As much as I probably could personally talk about this one all day, I do think we've covered it. So, uh, next up we're going
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to be talking about Diamond Comics and what they're doing as a distributors, not just the comics, but to RPGs. Go
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ahead, Joe. Diamond Comic Distributors. So, I have strong feelings about this, so I'm going
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to let you guys go first because otherwise you're going to have to cut me off at some point. That's okay. Um, we we'll we can go
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first. Uh, I'm personally reading what's going on. Uh, what's happening if to
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bare bones it and I know Joe is going to come in and correct me because he he's actually got a more nuance view, but to
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bare bones it, Diamond is bank going bankrupt. They're filing for I believe is it chapter 11 or chapter 10?
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They filed they filed for chapter 11 in January. Okay. as part of that whole process um
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they are now basically trying to say that all the consignment that they have
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been using they've been selling and how consignment works is somebody they don't own this this isn't this isn't
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merchandise that Diamond bought and no we're going to get we're going to get to it Liz I promise but this isn't stuff
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that Diamond bought this is consignment which means they take it it's supposedly owned by the people who are selling it
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they then sell it two distri they distribute it to companies and then they get half the money goes back to the
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original company and the distributor and the and the stores split the rest supposedly. However, now that they're
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going for Chapter 11, now that they are basically in the process of having their assets determined, they're filing to say
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that all these companies that have got stuff on sale of consignment with them have not filed the proper paperwork and
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therefore Diamond Comics Distribution can seize the consignments and sell them
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themselves to pay their creditor. Go ahead, Liz. I just wanted to get that out. Well, I just wanted to say Diamond is literally a distributor. So, they
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have stock from lots of publishers that they distribute. I mean, that is that is
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kind of their role here. So, they have it sounds like a lot of stock for a lot of small companies.
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There are some big names in here, which uh Matt you were talking about earlier. There are names like Marvel on this
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list, but there are also names like Piso, Green Ronin, other smaller press
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publishers, particularly in the tabletop industry, that can't absorb having a
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large portion of their inventory be just vanished because they have they
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have not been paid for these books and they would not get paid for these books in if if this uh agreement goes through
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and a diamond sells them off to pay other Yeah, and that's pretty much the problem. Like uh in one of the uh
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articles that that Liz first mentioned when we were first looking into this was Green Ronin had to go crowdfund a lawyer
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because Diamond is going to basically try and seize hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of their merchandise that
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they own and sell it and give the money to Chase and other big creditors. And
27:11
none of that money would be going to Green Ronin. And that's just one example of the many, many, many companies on this list. Joe, were you about to talk?
27:17
Yeah, I was going to say, so we get one per episode, and I think I'm going to use it here. I
27:23
It's not actually true, but okay. I I I Diamond is full of [ __ ] And so
27:29
the way that the relationship between a distributor and a store works is at least from an endpoint, I have to pay
27:36
them upfront for this product. Anything a store takes in, we have paid them for.
27:43
Every comic, every book, any anything we get from them, we pay for. Now, in rare
27:51
circumstances, you may have terms with the distributor where you have 7, 30,
27:57
60, 90 days to pay whatever the total sum is of their their particular uh your
28:05
order with them. uh after we give them that money, that transaction is done and
28:12
they immediately have to pay uh the company that they're distributing on behalf of whatever was taken in with
28:19
their portion taken out. Right? That's how that works. Now, essentially, this
28:25
is just product that hasn't been sold to a store yet. they do not own it and
28:31
they're trying to essentially argue that they have ownership of it from some legal loophole of well it hasn't been
28:38
paid for yet. Well, of course it hasn't been paid for yet. You broke your distribution. You broke your ability to
28:44
send to anybody because the minute you filed Chapter 11, everybody stopped getting anything we ordered from
28:50
Diamond. The amount of Marvel comics, Image Comics, IDW comics, uh, that did
28:57
not show up and still haven't shown up to stores is astronomical to the point where Marvel has just gone and started
29:04
reprinting comics that were already done in already in the hands of Diamond and
29:09
sent them to I believe it's uh, Penguin Random House now has the distribution rights for them. It is ridiculous. And
29:17
if this succeeds in court, that's going to end a ton of these companies, like
29:23
the bigger ones, like Marvel. Marvel can eat this. But here's the other problem with that. Marvel's owned by Disney. I
29:29
really really hope Disney sends their lawyers to slap Diamond around because
29:35
this cannot stand. They need to send this product back to the the companies
29:40
because Green Ronin's in trouble and Piso is going to take a huge hit and all these small companies that go through
29:46
them are it's it's going to be awful. But yeah, it this is this is ridiculous.
29:51
This is one of the most ludicrous. Well, we have it in our h our our warehouse and you didn't file the paperwork, so now we own it and we can sell it and
29:57
give all that money to our debtors. Good lord. Wow. Sorry, I'll stop. I see Liz
30:02
is No, that's that's pretty much exactly what I think we're all thinking. But, uh, Liz or Phil, if you have anything
30:09
you particularly want to talk about now is the time. I was just really happy to have Joe's perspective on this because I only know
30:14
what I read and this massive list of companies whose stuff Diamond thinks they own now. Holy cow.
30:20
Yep. Like, there are so many recognizable names on here. Uh, I should note that
30:26
uh, Green Ronin has a crowdfunding goal of $50,000, which is a huge amount of money, but that's the sort of funds it
30:34
takes to, you know, go in and do this right and really fight this. Yes. And I mean, even if you consider
30:41
this a slam dunk case, even if Diamond is overreaching, you need to get a lawyer to present that case for you. And
30:47
lawyers are expensive. Uh so far they have raised $36,000
30:53
which is a lot but they may need more to actually fight this and if they can't
30:58
fight this this is this could be devastating for Green Ronin and other small press that were using Diamond to
31:05
distribute inventory. Yeah, and Liz is right to mention D Liz is right to mention Green Ronin because like a lot
31:12
of the other companies, especially the role playing game distributor companies here, those game companies are like two to
31:20
seven people sometimes. Yeah, we're not talking even like company like Magpie is big compared to some of these
31:28
companies. So this is not if if you take all their merchandise and and you don't
31:34
give them the money for it, you've effectively stolen their merchandise. Yeah. Go ahead, Joe. I hear you. I was
31:39
going to say like so honestly if if I were these companies and I had access to
31:44
even a a little bit of a lawyer because they've published the name of all 128
31:51
companies that are out there. I'd be reaching out and trying to collectively go after and because again like it does
31:58
take a lot of money to fight this and Liz is absolutely correct. If I was, let's say, a lawyer for Frank Miller
32:05
Presents, uh, I'd be going to Marvel and being like, "Hey, remember that that relationship we have where I wrote a
32:11
bunch of your comics and stuff like that? Well, they're trying to steal my IP like they're trying to steal your IP.
32:16
Can we can we get in on this together and like get our product back?" So, yeah. I've also noticed Goodman Games is
32:22
on here. Goodman Games is like 10p tops. And that's like that's like Designers,
32:28
Publishers, Warehouse, and you know, Joseph Goodman himself. like it is not a big also have stuff on here
32:34
and I don't I don't know how well they're going to be able to eat this either. And I was wondering what was going to happen too because about uh about a month ago
32:42
um we got a rather at the shop we got a a really cryptic email from Diamond in
32:50
particular and this was everything was starting to go down before July because again the the hearing is soon and I
32:56
think they were prepping for this and now that I see this this makes a little more sense. They were trying to pump us
33:03
for five or six times what we actually owed them on our bill. And so like our
33:10
only outstanding bill with them was $600 and it was well within our 30-day term.
33:16
We are on like week two of the term. And they were like, "Well, you owe $3,600." And we're like, "Where where is this
33:25
coming from?" And we keep meticulous books, right? Um, maybe some other
33:31
stores got hit with this and they got away with it. And I I seriously hope that more stores were smart about this,
33:36
but like I keep meticulous records of every bill we pay out. I keep meticulous records of every order we make versus
33:43
how much we owe versus how much was paid out on it and time frames because that's just the way my brain works. And so we
33:49
called our rep and we said like at Diamond we literally said you need to
33:55
prove to me that this is the case because you literally just have a piece of paper in an email telling me that we
34:00
owe this much but that doesn't match any of my receipts any of my orders or any of my transactions against the bank and
34:06
then all of a sudden it went away and so we told them to pound sand because they're like oh it must have been a
34:11
mistake blah blah blah. Like, no, you're fishing for people that aren't paying attention or don't have good cuz you're trying to get more money out of people
34:18
because if you pay a distributor more than you owe them, they hold it in escrow. They don't refund it. They just
34:25
apply it to whatever your future orders are. That's been that way forever. So, my gut tells me now looking at this
34:31
that they were trying to flee stores trying to get extra money in their coffers to try to pay off their their their debtors. And it's like, good
34:40
gracious, like Diamond has always been a pretty scummy company, but they were a
34:45
necessary evil because they had distribution rights and soul distribution rights on a lot of stuff.
34:52
Um, and then like you're looking at this list of of names. Some companies have already moved over to to others like DC
34:58
is done through Lunar Lunar Publishing and has been since I want to say February. So there's not a whole lot of
35:04
DC probably left in in in Diamond's coffers, but the rest of these, who
35:09
knows? They a lot of these were probably like the only way they could get distribution done. Like IDW is not a
35:15
huge company. They got some huge IPs, but I mean, and that's another angle though that maybe they could take too. Like IDW is like the exclusive comic
35:21
publisher of all of Hasbro's IPs. I'd be going to Papa Hasbro at this point. I don't like Hasbro, but I'd be like, "Hey
35:28
Hasbro, we like doing your stuff." Yeah, they've got lawyers. They they've they've stolen your your intellectual
35:34
property essentially and are trying to sell it as their own. Can you do something about this? That's what I mean. I don't know that they could, but
35:40
I try to get them involved cuz then I wouldn't have to try to pay for a lawyer out of my own stuff cuz they have lawyers.
35:47
But I'm just looking at this list and like it is like I knew that they had a lot and there's some stuff on here that
35:53
even I didn't know they had. And this is this is going to hurt. This is going to be real painful depending on that
35:58
hearing goes on July 21st. Yeah. I want I want Hasbro or or Disney to get on to this and then I'm basically
36:04
going to be the uh the let them fight gift from Godzilla. Yeah.
36:10
But I think we can probably talk about some cooler stuff. Yeah, we can we can move on at this point. I just think we've we've got to
36:16
establish that this is this is thinking about not only does it suck, it sucks in
36:23
multiple ways and we would really take a long time to cover all the ways, but just think about all the disruption to
36:29
books coming out because of this. Um, there's a lot of companies that are just not going to be able to sell you their
36:35
books. Like straight up, you they can't they don't have it. It's It's currently
36:40
in a warehouse somewhere and someone's trying to sell it to to give again City Bank needs to get its money. So, it's
36:48
like yikes. Uh, but we should move on. Example, this has nothing to do with this, I don't think. Uh, but Eberon
36:55
Forge of the Artificer is delayed until December. It was originally supposed to come out this week, wasn't it?
37:00
Uh, next week or a couple of weeks. It's close. It's very close when they
37:06
announced the delay. And so, um, do we know like when in December even at this
37:12
point or just in December? Um, December 9th, yes, is what they've announced. Uh, and what
37:19
they have said about the the delay is that they got their books in. It's a cover defect. The covers started
37:26
warping on their stock of books and they're going to reprint them from scratch, which is kind of a bummer. I
37:35
was looking forward to playing with the new artificers and all the new artificer subasses that are going to be in this
37:40
book and now it's delayed until December. It was supposed to be out at the beginning of August. Now it will not
37:47
be. They are also delaying digital launch of the product to have uh just
37:52
one launch. There's one launch for the book that will include where you can also buy digital or physical copies. And
37:59
I'm I'm pretty bummed out. But also, you know, if if Wizards of the Coast sent
38:04
out books and all of their covers started warping or were warped before people received them, they would take so
38:11
much flak for it. You know, that would not be the right way to go. Customers would be unhappy and they already have a
38:16
pretty bad image problem in the community. So, I feel like this was the
38:22
right choice. I'm also pretty bummed about it. It's also the cheaper choice. So, like
38:27
the the the side you don't see too about that is let's say that they they didn't recall them
38:33
and they ship them out and all of them have a defect. every store, every book retailer, every big box store, which
38:41
includes things like Target and uh Barnes & Noble and other bookstores across the countries, multiple countries
38:48
that these books are being released in, then can go back to uh Hasbro or Wizards
38:55
and say, "All of our stuff is damaged. We need new copies, and now you have to
39:00
pay for all the shipping back and forth." So essentially all they're doing is they're c they're they're they're eliminating their cost of recall and
39:08
eliminating their cost of freight to stores and individuals. And it is better like this isn't the
39:13
first time they've done this either. So uh I think they did this with the Deck of Many things release if I remember
39:18
correctly cuz we didn't get ours until way later um because of some defect in the I think it was the cards themselves
39:25
were like defective. Um, but like they've done this in the past and it
39:30
makes more sense to pull them back from the distributors or pull them back from their warehouse and do it now than
39:36
suffer the wrath later. So, but good on them for doing it instead of, you know, just rolling the dice and hoping people
39:42
wouldn't notice. Yeah, I think that would have basically been a disaster at this point. They've had they've had enough bad press. They
39:49
they really don't need to be, you know, shipping it out and just hoping that they don't warp. But yeah, uh well,
39:55
since we're talking about it though, while we're talking about it coming it it it coming out later than we expected,
40:00
um we also know because up until this week, we thought it was coming next month. Uh do we know now that the book's
40:07
going to have half elves in it? Yeah. Which is interesting because Coravar
40:13
5.5. Yeah. 5.5 had gotten rid of half anything. There's no half orcs. There's no half
40:19
elves. Um, you could even like I I made a character who had a dwarf mom and a a
40:25
human dad in one of our oneshots and you can even say that looks like a human but
40:30
has dwarf stats. Uh, that's that's in there. So, it's interesting that they're bringing back
40:35
half elves, but the the Corvara are basically based on a nation in Eberon
40:41
that is settled by elves and humans and they've had intermingling. So in this
40:47
case, it feels like they're just trying to preserve that nation state and and
40:53
those people who had their own culture. They weren't just half elves. They had their own specific culture. So
40:59
interesting. I'm not sure if it's going to have any really long lasting effect other than it is. I think the change to
41:06
half elves and half orcs was one of the things people really didn't like. Uh a lot of players didn't see. I mean,
41:11
I liked it. I thought it was great. I'm like, "Yeah, I'm totally going to have like a half gnome, half orc who's, you
41:17
know, looks like an looks like a gnome but his orc stats. That'll be great." Yeah. I think I think a portion seem to
41:22
like it. I think a portion of it though is like the the whole idea of like the half elf has been so tied up with the identity.
41:31
Yeah. For so long that like taking away like other half lineage uh you know, heritages.
41:40
Okay, that makes sense. But when you take this away, it sort of pulls a portion of the game's identity out like
41:47
it. So I understand putting it back in and I understand doing this in Eberon because I think it is really important
41:53
to the world of Eberon. So having it come back is a is pretty good. Um and there are new features for it,
41:59
too. not just like it was before, which I think is really cool because not only did they bring it back, but they're
42:04
giving it a unique identity, which I think makes it more I think it
42:10
makes it more important, right? So, yes, you get your dark vision out to 60 ft and fan accessory still gives you advantage on sa versus being charmed,
42:17
but you're not immune to sleep anymore. Uh, and instead it's replaced with a feature called lethargy resilience, uh,
42:23
or lethargy, however you pronounce it. I don't know, words are hard. uh and it lets you turn a failed save versus being
42:28
made unconscious uh into a success. Uh so it's not just sleep, it's actually a
42:34
little bit better because you're a little more resilient because you're not just an elf, you're an elf and a human. So I think that's
42:40
but it also at the same time it it doesn't immunize you to this. Correct. It means one time like for every
42:47
recharge you can say nope I I don't resist. Okay, well I'll cast it again. Well, you know, you have to finish you
42:53
have to finish one D4 long rest before you can use it again. Yeah. So, it's at some simultaneously
43:00
broadened what it can be used for, which I think is really useful, but it also made it a little more in line where it's
43:07
going to have a longer recharge rate, which is great. Uh and then you have the fay gift which lets you get a uh gives
43:13
you the friends can trip but then you can swap it for any can trip from cleric druid or wizard on a long rest which I
43:19
think actually is really really really good uh and extraordinarily versatile.
43:26
That is one of the best ways I've seen of having a species that has not completely human ancestry um not just
43:32
get nothing from the human side. Yes. Because like the whole thing with human with humans now is you know the
43:39
the versatility is their their big thing. Um and now half elves have both
43:45
that which is essentially cantrip versatility. Um and also skill versatility where they get proficiency
43:50
with a skill and they can swap that out on a too. So half elves half elves are apparently kind of built around long
43:56
rests now but they're really flexible the core of our rather. So, so while we're talking about that though
44:02
also we find out it's now completely confirmed we now know that this is the truth other Eberon you know oriented for
44:10
this now ancestries are also going to be in this book uh including the kalashtar if you want to do some psionic stuff and
44:16
we know that they're working on psionic stuff uh for on earth arcana so it's not surprising that they're going to bring
44:22
that kalashtar back for for us uh the the the changelings I think not changelings shifters
44:29
shifters No, changelings and shifters. That's right. Shifters who are basically like, you know, like hands rope
44:34
descended. Uh the changelings who are kind of, you know, they're sort of the same.
44:39
Shape shifters. Yeah, they're shape shifters. They can do faces, stuff. And the good oldfashioned war forged who are magic
44:46
robots. Um who doesn't love a good magic robot? I love magic robots and I've played several played several in our previous,
44:53
you know, I know. I know. Uh, but what's really interesting to me is the since this is the artificer book and we are getting a
45:00
bunch of new artificer subasses. Uh, well, maybe they're not really new.
45:05
We've seen them before and revised for the new 5e rules,
45:12
but since we're now also getting war forge rules, you can be a war forged artificer, which means you can be
45:17
working on yourself, which I've always liked about the war forged and artificers. I like the idea of a war
45:23
forged who's essentially kind of like a mage who casts amplification spells on
45:28
themsel. The artificer war forged is essentially, oh, I'll just make my hand
45:34
a gun, you know, and it's it's kind of like body horror if you're a magic robot. So, yeah, I I am really looking
45:40
forward to this book when it finally comes out. I I'm sad that it won't be out next month cuz we were talking about
45:46
running uh an old artificer game and it late this year. Yeah.
45:52
But yeah, we all have to wait for that one. I just I just realized that the numbers
45:57
in this barker work out that you could make five characters exclusively from races in this book using the five
46:03
different artificer subasses. Yep. Also, that's so cool. I would like to note
46:08
that this is the one book from Wizards this year that I am looking forward to purchasing.
46:14
Yeah, I might even I might even pick this one up just because I know we're not playing D and D right now, but my real life table does really like Eberon.
46:20
I Yeah. So, I'll probably this one as well. Yeah, I think
46:26
it's not as for me, but it's still pretty good. Yeah. All right, moving to the next story that I think we should talk about because
46:32
it's cool and interesting. Um, Evil Hat and Crystal Dynamics, who had a
46:37
licensing agreement for the Tomb Raider games, have decided they're not going to put out a Tomb Raider game. Uh,
46:43
apparently it was an amicable split where they present Crystal Dynamics was presented with what Evil Hat was
46:50
thinking and they were like, "Ah, we'd rather not." And so rather than fight
46:56
about it, uh, Evil Hat's gonna go forward and take the stuff that they had
47:01
that isn't pro, you know, product identity of the license and make another game out of it. So, we are going to
47:08
possibly get some other kind of RPG based on what they designed for the Tomb Raider RPG, but without the Tomb Raider
47:15
license. If you're a World of Warcraft player or any Warcraft player, you you're seeing right now going, "Where
47:21
have I heard this before? Where have I heard somebody taking a license then not making the licensed
47:28
property and making something out of it? It is a mystery that we'll never get the answers to. But regardless,
47:33
look at the framed legal notice that I still have. Anyway,
47:38
it is a mystery. Yes. But anyway, so I'm actually kind of interested in this because I I mean
47:45
obviously there's always going to be a certain amount of no, everything's fine. we parted ways amicably and you know in
47:51
reality you know who knows what happened but I like to see somebody not just
47:57
throwing all that work out um cuz they got a lot of contract writers to come in here and write adventures for this thing
48:04
and it's it's not like robbing tombs is that hard a concept to to make
48:09
so many there are so many tropes you could fit into this there are so many kinds of exploration games and of course
48:17
you even if you look back at Dungeons and Dragons itself, which is
48:23
Yeah. Yeah. A lot of there's there's a big part of that that is raiding tombs and exploring dungeons.
48:30
I mean, you could go all out Indiana Jones with something like this. You could there's so much you can do with
48:36
this concept. It's a really strong concept, and you don't necessarily need
48:42
Tomb Raider to make that concept interesting and exciting. I mean, you
48:47
know, um, The '9s Mummy with Brendan Frasier is basically a bunch of people
48:52
go rob a tomb, realize it was a mistake, and then spend the next half of the movie dealing with the fallout of of
48:59
that tomb robbery they just did. See? Yeah. I I'd be going to Disney at this point
49:04
and being like, "Hey, can we make a National Treasure game and just put Nick Cage's face all over this?"
49:10
Yes. I am on board with that idea. Cuz Disney owns the right to it now. Nicholas Cage is in it.
49:16
You can't tell me Nicholas Cage would not be down for that. I'm not saying you wouldn't be down for it. I'm just saying it must be. He must
49:22
actually be involved. I want to see his face on the box. I want to see commercials of Nicholas Cage rolling
49:28
dice and going, "All right, there. It's on the back of the Constitution and then they're like running out the door after
49:33
rolling his dice. Yes, I'm in for this." I think I think this is actually get I think this will actually work out really
49:38
well for Evil Hat cuz this kind of like their whole thing. Yeah, their whole thing is like they kind of make games on
49:44
their own schedule and they release it when they're done. Um, and that's not really how life works with external licensers. So, I'm sure this is probably
49:52
really nice for them. Plus, they can kind of tackle something that uh um uh
49:58
Crystal Dynamics or Idos or whoever has had the Tomb Raider license at any time never really did, which is how weirdly
50:03
colonial Tomb Raider is. Um, and that it's a it's a rich white lady with guns going into tombs.
50:09
A rich British other people from mistaking Yeah. A rich British lady. Yeah. Uh, who should never be caught
50:15
dead saying it belongs in a museum because we know about the British Museum. There's a whole game about robbing artifacts from it and taking
50:21
them back to where they're from coming out soon. So, I think this will end up being a plus and probably ultimately a gain for
50:27
Evil Hat. Um, this this could be absolutely. Uh, I really do feel like that the colonialism thing alone, you're
50:34
you're totally right. They could absolutely address that in a way that you're not going to see in a Tomb Raider game. Um, which is why I think the first
50:42
of the re the return Tomb Raiders of the current uh trilogy had almost no Tomb
50:48
Raiding. Like it was just Loft getting shot. Well, that
50:53
that is a topic for a different podcast. Yeah. But okay, moving on.
50:59
Watch. Yeah. Uh, see the thing about this one is I just talked about it a lot, so I don't
51:04
know that we really need to talk too much about it, but without numbers is coming out. It is
51:10
out now, actually. It's out out. You can buy it right now. And it is, in my
51:16
opinion, the best of a pretty good crop of post-apocalyptic games that have been
51:21
coming out lately. Like, the Fallout game is is pretty solid. It's a modifice game. Uh, it's it's good. Uh there's
51:28
really I have nothing negative to say about it. I think it is one of the most fun. Fallout lends itself to this and I
51:36
think it really works very well as a game, but Ashes Without Number you could make that game in Ashes Without Number.
51:43
It is just it's a very strong well-designed game. Um it's uh I think when I
51:50
Yeah, Kevin Crawford. Yeah, it's Kevin Crawford. This is kind of this is kind of his thing. This is his wheelhouse. Um and he did a
51:56
really good job. Yeah, this Yeah, Kevin Crawford, who is kind of the the power behind Cena Nominate Publishing, like every one of their
52:03
Without number games, even if you don't want to run the OSR system that's in them, always have phenomenal worldbuing
52:09
tools up to and including, and this is a weird one. Uh, Strange Empires is their take on Call of Cthulhu. And the game
52:16
itself is, it's fine, but it actually has phenomenal rules for developing your
52:21
own uh set of cosmic deities. Yeah. your own weird mythos, which I love that.
52:28
Oh, no. It's it's it is one of the best things about that book. Um, it's to the
52:34
point where a friend of mine used that book to to make the Marvel magical god like Citarak and all those as
52:40
Lovecrafty, you know, entities and made a like weird magical, you know, it's like you're a
52:46
magical superhero, but you secretly work for the old gods. Uh, sort of thing. You can do a lot with this system. Um, it's
52:53
weird because like I said, you can just you could strip all the OSR stuff out and just use some other system and the
52:59
still great. I've used uh Cities Without Numbers for some of my Cyberpunk stuff like in some of my uh my Shadow Run stuff because it
53:05
just it there's some things that it conceptualizes better, right? Mhm. Yeah. No, absolutely. Uh so yeah,
53:12
I've used the uh the planetary system building system from uh Stars That Number Kind of the first one for
53:18
several different games. Yeah. just I mean not we we pretty much
53:23
all we're saying is it's out you can get it and it's a good game. It's worth looking at. Yeah, absolutely.
53:29
Well, let's move on because you know we do have other things we might want to be talking about. Uh we should probably mention this the this one is one that
53:36
Joe will be better than me. Um I don't know much about print on demand miniatures other than that that's a good
53:41
thing that they exist but Piso is going to be getting them. Uh could you talk about it Joe? Yeah. So, um, print on
53:48
demand miniatures for tabletop games in general has become way more, uh, viable
53:55
since printing at home has become way cheaper and more accessible. An average person for less than $300 US can get a
54:03
resin printer at home, uh, which doesn't require ventil like much ventilation or
54:08
comes with whatever you need, uh, and print your own miniatures based off whatever files you find. And certain
54:14
companies have been doing this to either produce their own games, uh, whether it's war games or their own role playing
54:20
games. Uh, some folks have been doing this to release stuff compatible with your favorite role playing tabletop games like 5e compatible modules that
54:28
come complete with all the print files for all of your your terrain settings, you all of your creatures, all of your
54:33
characters, and everything else. It's a really cool concept and it's been gaining a lot of steam lately and I have
54:39
been wondering when a mainstream company is going to be jumping on this bandwagon
54:44
and actually taking advantage of it. It turns out Piso is the first one to really start doing this. Uh in advance
54:51
of Gen Con this year, uh Piso, Titan Forge, and My Mini Factory announced a
54:57
partnership between all of them uh to produce STLs and print on demand miniatures for Pathfinder and
55:03
Starfinder. Uh they're going to be sculpted by Titan Forge, which is a a 3D
55:08
digital sculptor that not only has their own game stuff, uh but makes absolutely phenomenal detailed miniatures for, you
55:14
know, tabletop wargaming as well as RPGs and has been for a while and releases them almost exclusively through Patreon
55:20
and My Minac. And my Minifactory is a 3D printing repository library where creators are allowed to host their files
55:28
uh and either run campaigns like their own version of Patreon called Tribes or to allow access to files uh with like
55:35
Patreon subscriptions or whatever the case is or codes that you purchase from other vendors. Um and it's also really
55:42
good for everybody because their search in the online marketplace on My Miniactory is absolutely fantastic. So
55:48
now with this, you're going to be able to get miniatures for both Pathfinder and Starfinder, starting with uh the
55:55
first six main characters or pre-generated characters uh for Starfinder second edition, their iconic
56:01
characters uh for Murder in Metal City. Uh so it's going to be really really
56:08
cool uh to see this actually take place. I'm really excited. I love being able to
56:14
like I'm going to be nerdy and and and giddy for a second. The number of times I have looked at my the minis that I
56:21
have printed from my stuff and giggled while saying I made you out of goo is not insignificant.
56:27
Uh and being able to do that with like tabletop miniatures like this, especially like let's say we want to run
56:32
a pre a pre-generated campaign or the the the introductory thing for Starfinder second edition. Here's
56:39
everything you need to do it. Here's all the models you need to do it. No more digging for, oh, this maybe looks kind
56:44
of like my character. So, I'm I'm super here for it because they're working with a fantastic 3D sculptor and they're
56:51
working with a reputable 3D repository site. Like, this is just win-win for everybody. And if this does well, I
56:58
think this is going to force other companies, other tabletop companies to look at this going forward. So, I'm I'm
57:06
super here for it. If you are an enthusiast in the the uh the hobby space, you should be as well. And I will
57:13
say the other thing that I think is really cool is like you want a little tiny dragon man, you can have a little tiny dragon man. You want to scale that
57:19
up to 200% and have a big dragon man, you can do that same thing. The versatility is endless. I'm I'm really
57:26
excited. I'm sorry. No, you can. You being excited is not a problem, man. That's actually the point.
57:32
Um, another thing to mention really fast. Uh, Mutants and Masterminds is supposedly coming with a play test
57:39
fairly soon for their fourth edition. Um, that's according to Steve Kenson, who is the main designer behind it.
57:45
Considering what's Green Ronin's going through, I we don't currently know much
57:51
about when this would come out. Uh, because in case you don't know, Green Ronin is the company that originally
57:56
published and still publishes Mutants and Masterminds. So, yeah, there's that.
58:01
Uh, but nevertheless, they are supposedly working on it. There's supposedly a play test coming at the end of the month. Um, I am looking forward
58:08
to seeing it. I've actually never gotten these people to let me run Mutants and Masterminds. And to a degree, I think
58:15
that Mutants and Masterminds is one of those games that could benefit from a rules late version because oh my word
58:22
does mut Mutants and Masterminds has so many rules that they put out books that are just a subset of their rules
58:29
expanded to have more rules in them. like, you know, you like super powers and fourth edition stuff.
58:36
Yeah, that's it is it's wild. It is wild sometimes with mutants and masterminds. Uh but I like it. I actually wrote uh
58:43
something for them a few years back uh back before I was really going blind. Uh so if you're looking for danger zones,
58:49
my name will be there. Uh but regardless, good game. I'm interested to see what Steve comes up with. Um but
58:56
yeah, coming soon. Who knows when we'll actually see the game, the play test document. I'm assuming they're aiming
59:01
for Origins itself or if it's the end of the month. Gen Con's this month, right? Or is it next month?
59:06
Uh, it should be next month, I believe, if not end of this month. I don't I don't know the exact date. It's usually
59:11
August. August 1st through 4th this year. Yeah, if the play test is coming at the
59:16
end of the month, then it's very likely they're going to have it at Chen. So, we already talked about the Fallout war game, so I don't think we really need to
59:23
talk about that too much. Uh, Starfinder 2e is out soon. Uh Liz corrected me on
59:28
this in the notes, so I'm glad to see that. Uh player core is coming out on July 31st. Uh the GM core is coming out
59:35
mid August. Now, because of what's going on with with Diamond, you you can get the PDFs. There's going
59:41
to sell them when the release date happens. I don't know when people will be able to get the hard covers. Yeah, because likely likely these are
59:48
already at Diamond by now, I think. Go ahead, Liz. Sorry. Go ahead. Yeah, we don't know. Um, I mean on the
59:54
website you can order hardcover copies except for the standard cover player
59:59
core, so I don't know. Uh, I don't know what's up with that one. I mean, that could be something caught up with
1:00:05
Diamond. Uh, but yes, you will minimally minimally be able to get the PDFs for
1:00:10
these very soon. Yeah. And I mean, I'm looking forward to Starfinder 2e because we did a play test
1:00:17
of it last year, I want to say. Mhm. Yeah. And we're talking about doing another one. Yeah, we're talking about doing another
1:00:23
one. And I think I think definitely another one. I don't know. I don't know if you want
1:00:28
to do a continuation of the last one we did or do something totally new. I would probably either be continuation.
1:00:35
Yeah, just because it's been a year and I don't remember what I Yeah, it's like what I don't I don't
1:00:40
remember what happened last week, much less last year. So, yeah, it's okay. You guys you guys can find a
1:00:45
different starship to crash. Uh, also also the cool looking uh going back to the one Job was talking about, the cool
1:00:51
looking akashic dragon monster on the front of the player core is another one of the print on demand minis. Yes, it is.
1:00:56
That thing is so sick looking. Absolutely. The dragon with the laser for the face.
1:01:02
But in addition to that, uh, we now know that there's an in there's an invincible TTRPG. We've actually known this for a
1:01:08
couple of months now because Joe put this in, I think, two months ago and we just never covered it. Uh, so yeah,
1:01:15
Invincible TTRPG coming out. Um, if you really like to
1:01:20
see superheroes explode into piles of blood, then this is going to be the game for you guys. Well, the the the key there is is with
1:01:26
Free League pun uh publishing, which I think is one of the uh super interesting and and noteworthy thing cuz Free League
1:01:33
is also the ones that work with Lord of the Rings on their TTRPG. The Out I was just looking at a Free League book. Yeah, the Outgun stuff is all through
1:01:39
Free League. Dragon Bane's through Free League. Like there the electric state is through there as well. Dragon Bane's
1:01:45
through there. Bladeunner's through there. Yeah. They do a bunch of stuff really big stuff through. So for
1:01:51
invincible to get picked up with that. It's pretty good. Free league's co-founder is one of the co-designers on this game too. Yes. Yes, he is.
1:01:57
Yeah. Tom Tomas Herren Stam. I'm sorry Tomas. I probably just screwed up your name. Uh who has credits on like the
1:02:03
Alien RPG and Mutant Year Zero. Uh and one of the founders of D and D Beyond
1:02:09
which is a wild person to see another credit. But he Yeah, but he worked on stuff like Cortex Prime, too. So,
1:02:15
and I want to point this out there because this is this is baller graphic design by Johan No, who did Morborgorg
1:02:21
and if you've ever seen Morborg, I cannot wait to see this book. Morborg is Morborg is a piece of art as
1:02:28
much as a game. Yeah. Um, hey Matt, maybe this will be that rules light uh superhero game you want.
1:02:34
Yeah, maybe. I mean, frankly, Masks is already that. But I'm still That's what I was just thinking. It is,
1:02:39
but Mask is as much a game about being a teenager as it is about being a superhero. I guess I guess so is Invincible to a degree. So
1:02:46
to a degree, absolutely. But then again, Invincible goes from him being a teenager to him being 500 years old. So
1:02:52
yeah, there's there's room in there. There's wiggle room. Yeah. But, you know, with with Mutants of Masterminds
1:02:58
getting a new edition and with this coming out, um, it feels like it might be time that superhero RPGs get their
1:03:05
once in a once in a decade brief resurgence before they go back away. Um, since the since Champions
1:03:12
essentially got bought by a video game company and then never really done anything with again, uh, it's it's basically just been
1:03:19
Mutants and Mastermind. So, and and Joe mentioned the TriStat system, one of the best superhero RPGs
1:03:26
was a tri-stat game. Uh, Silver Age Sentinels was an amazing superhero RPG and that
1:03:32
when when when the uh Guardians of Order died, that game died, too. Uh, and then
1:03:37
there was Goodman, not Goodman Games, uh, Greater Games. Yeah, Greater Than Games made uh the Sentinels comic book that
1:03:44
you know Sentinels RPG based on their I think a board game and it's based on Sentinels the Multiverse
1:03:49
which is a multiplayer co-op card game. Um it's a good RPG but it's also
1:03:55
essentially dead in the water along with other games at this point. So exactly. So, with all those companies currently kind of, you know, treading
1:04:01
water, uh, and people desperate enough that they actually went to a Kickstarter for DC Heroes, the the 1980s game, and
1:04:09
gave them like a million dollars, um, I feel like there's a possibility that somebody might be able to get a new game
1:04:16
in and people would be interested. But regardless, yeah, Invincible, I mean, I'm interested, but at the same time, I
1:04:21
mean, I loved the Invincible cartoon. Like, I think in a lot of ways it's much better. I think it's superior to the comic,
1:04:27
honestly. And I'm a big fan of the comic, but it's hard to read to watch sometimes. And Invincible, the comic is
1:04:32
hard to read sometimes. We This is I think going to be like, okay, my two cents on the superhero genres. We have the lighter one, which I
1:04:40
think is masks. It's rules light, but it's it is a lighthearted more than anything else. Like there are
1:04:46
some serious topics, but it skews towards like we said CW, right? Like it's it's that type of of audience. You
1:04:54
have uh the one coming out from Outgun, which is more the cinematic universe style, right? Like it's more high power,
1:05:01
big moments, that type of stuff. And then you have this, which is almost like the grim dark superhero
1:05:07
potentially. Um I mean, the fact the fact that that you have design and and work in art
1:05:13
artistry done by folks that have known to be done heavy metal style stuff, like this is going to be a heavy game
1:05:19
and it should be. But I think that's really cool because it shows how versatile of a genre superheroes is.
1:05:26
So, oh yeah, at the same time, if if you are looking for a colorful I just saw I
1:05:33
just went and saw the new Superman movie and now I want to make my own superhero game. Maybe not this is all I'm saying.
1:05:39
Uh but definitely if you watched the Invincible series and thought this is really good and dark. Uh yeah,
1:05:46
absolutely. Um, but finally, last one, which is I didn't know this was happening. Uh, Critical Roles new live
1:05:53
show is going to be them converting their D&D characters into Daggerheart characters. Um,
1:05:58
which, um, did you write this one, Liz? Yeah. Go, please. Yeah, go go go with it. So, uh, the next live show they're doing
1:06:05
is called Oaths and Ash, and it's going to be on August 5th. Kind of, uh, just just Gen Con O'lock. Um, and and one of
1:06:14
the interesting things about it, they're playing their campaign three characters, but they're playing Daggerheart.
1:06:20
And one of the things I'm wondering about this is this is not an easy translation. Like, when they first
1:06:27
started live streaming their games, they converted from Pathfinder to Dn D. And
1:06:32
well, okay, those those are not the same game. They have a lot of the same DNA.
1:06:38
They came from the same place. You can take a Pathfinder character and wiggle it over into Dn D. DN D to Dagger Hart.
1:06:46
There's Yeah, D and D to Dagger Hart is not like that. And one interesting thing, uh,
1:06:53
last episode we talked about a lot of the play test classes they've been rolling out for Daggerheart. And I do
1:07:00
wonder if these things are related. Like they rolled out a witch and a warlock and a brawler, a different kind of
1:07:07
fighter. Uh, all of those might actually correspond to characters we could see at
1:07:14
this live show. So, like the big thing I'm looking at here is that if they are
1:07:21
changing their campaign 3 characters to Dagger Heart characters, I I don't think they're looking back to doing D and D
1:07:28
games anymore cuz this is this is a big switch. I think if and when they do another huge campaign,
1:07:35
it's going to be Daggerheart, not Dn D. And I think that's really important for the industry because
1:07:42
these big shows, whether you personally enjoy them or not, they have onboarded a
1:07:48
lot of people into D and D, including me. You know, uh my ex loved Critical
1:07:54
Role. I started watching Critical Role. I started playing D and D. I started
1:07:59
DMing D and D. I started looking at other games. That was that has been my path into tabletop. And I am not the
1:08:07
only one in that boat. A lot of people have watched live streams and actual plays and been like, "This is so cool."
1:08:13
And they've learned about the games. They've learned how to play or run games by watching things they've seen online.
1:08:19
So, if Critical Role starts doing Dagger Heart streams, I think not only does
1:08:25
this really start being an onboarding place for people who might be interested in playing Daggerheart, it's also a
1:08:32
pretty a pretty big blow to Dn D because, you know, people aren't going to stop playing D and D. That's D and D
1:08:39
is always going to be there. But I think when you have someone notable like this switching away and making their game
1:08:46
look like an easy fun option, I think that makes it really hard for D&D. So I that's what I think is
1:08:53
interesting about this that this could be critical role is big enough to have just that kind of impact and they've
1:09:01
been big in the rise of Dn D and the popularity of 5e. In a way I think
1:09:07
Wizards of the Coast and Hasbro certainly never appreciated and uh it's going to be it's going to be an
1:09:13
interesting year to see what uh what comes of this and if Go on Joe. I was going to say I'm I'm
1:09:20
interested in this and this is something that I think is as much a community
1:09:25
service as it is a marketing thing. So not not saying that as a negative. I'm
1:09:31
just playing I'm just saying for any of you listening at home, this is not me hating on Critical Role or anything. Um
1:09:36
because I think you are having an adoption problem with the game of Dagger
1:09:42
Heart. And I think a lot of it is long-term campaign players of other games in particular like D and D. Like
1:09:50
if you've been playing the same character for five years, you necessarily are pretty change resistant.
1:09:58
Like you're not necessarily want to give that character up and start over again if you haven't done everything you
1:10:04
wanted to do with it. So the idea of going to a new game system is a harder
1:10:09
cell for somebody in that situation. Like I know for a fact that when I was playing my my Elven Gunslinger in my
1:10:16
friend's game, we played that for like three years. I loved that character. I did not want to play anything else in
1:10:21
between until I was done with his story. It was just the way it was. Um but then
1:10:26
you do this and you show how yes, you can convert this over. Here's the
1:10:32
translation. Here's what correlates. And here's the stuff that you could do better or here's the stuff that we get
1:10:38
rid of. I think does a lot for them to have players
1:10:43
be a little more open to adopting the game. So, I think it's good on their
1:10:48
part. I think that I wish they would have done something specifically like this before they release their their
1:10:54
game uh book, but here's a really large audience for them to capture. And I
1:11:00
think that's actually really I mean, it's interesting because it isn't just limited to Critical Role. Um, one game that I always been interested
1:11:06
in for a bit, but I hadn't really thought too much about it. I saw a a basically a live streamed playthrough of
1:11:13
Mystic Mythic Bastion Land with with Chris McDow. Uh, it's probably the same one I just watched a few days ago.
1:11:19
Yeah. And this one we came out a year ago, uh, more or less. And it's
1:11:24
I had no idea what Mythic Bastion Land was other than it's basically his into the odd uh setting, right? I'm not
1:11:32
uh sort of. Yeah. The way he described it in an interview was like this is a this is kind of him wanting to make a
1:11:37
fantasy game but without a lot of the croft that he doesn't like from fantasy games but also I think there's a line in
1:11:44
Electric Bastion Land about as you get out into the old country it's like stepping back into medieval times and
1:11:50
his the thought process that kicked this off for him was uh well what if you went out there and took a right turn and
1:11:55
actually stepped into like the mythic past the world instead of the history of it. Yeah. So, it's an interesting game. Um,
1:12:01
but I wouldn't have known much about it if not for this play test. Like, it's got he's got a bunch of people playing
1:12:07
it. And that's I I know Liz has talked about this before, but the ability to
1:12:13
just see people play it. Like, we used to have to go to people's houses and
1:12:18
just start playing the game. Like, we didn't we didn't have the ability to watch other people play it. if you went
1:12:25
to the store and they were playing in the store, people would get real catchy about you watching them. So, it was hard
1:12:31
to to get this experience that you can get now where you can just watch people play and like, "Oh, that's how it
1:12:37
works." Or or you'll go, "Oh, Dn D combat still takes way too freaking long."
1:12:43
Truth. Yeah, I I think Joe is right too that this is it is a marketing move, but sometimes marketing moves are good. Uh
1:12:50
the the role playing hobby is not big enough that it can do without marketing. Uh, we need to get people playing these
1:12:56
things, so we kind of have to tell them they're out. Yeah, Liz actually uh Liz actually recently got watching another A Dagger
1:13:02
Heart the other Dagger Heart live play they're doing because I have been utterly resistant to watching Much Critical Role because of their 4-hour
1:13:09
long episodes 80 of them. Yeah. But like I can settle in for like
1:13:14
for like an 8 episode miniseries that you know I can put on while I'm working and it's stagger. And I will say it's
1:13:20
been really illustrative to see how one of the people who created the game intends for the game to run like
1:13:27
that has been really like illustrative especially in the way that they handle spotlighting during conflict scenes. I'm
1:13:33
like oh okay this actually makes a little more sense now that I've seen in action rather than just trying to parse it out of the book.
1:13:40
But uh Liz, go ahead. Like I know when I was running Dagger Hart, that was the thing I struggled with. And watching,
1:13:47
you know, Matt Mercer and his team of weirdos play this game. It's like, oh,
1:13:53
this makes a lot more sense in Combat Flow because uh certainly when I was running that, I was getting rules wrong.
1:13:59
This is a new game. I haven't played it much. I haven't seen other people play it much. So, there's always a learning
1:14:07
curve to any game, even a simple game. And so that's where live streams and
1:14:13
actual plays can really help you learn and understand. A lot of times when I
1:14:18
have run games in the past, I've looked for actual plays of them to see, okay,
1:14:23
how does this work out in practice and just see what happens because that's
1:14:29
very different from just reading a book or just talking about it with your friends. But at this point, guys, we have covered
1:14:35
this entire document. We've talked about everything. We never do that. However, we accomplished this by going a half
1:14:41
hour. Um, so yeah, don't don't get too excited about it. Uh, because, you know,
1:14:47
we did do that. Um, here's where we usually do a thing that I don't know the script to, Joe.
1:14:54
Well, I'm going to go ahead and tell you that Blizzard is made possible due to generous contributions at patreon.com/bizzardwatch.
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1:15:11
Thank you very much. Um for a kind of last question I'm going to say I want to ask all of you what is your sweet spot
1:15:18
on how complicated the rules are. Name name a game that you think hits exactly what you enjoy in terms of how much it's
1:15:25
got for rules versus how much it's got for just letting people free it. Uh I'm going to start with Joe. Uh, I can't
1:15:32
answer that question because I will play literally anything. Uh, and I will force it into my will and what I needed to do
1:15:39
in order to make the game work as I have done over the many years with games produced by Palladium or, you know,
1:15:46
various flavors of GERPs. Uh, what I've done with Shadow Run time and time again for decades. Uh, so I don't really have
1:15:53
a preference cuz I will make literally anything work because I'm a firm believer of the rules and mechanics are
1:16:00
a suggestion and I'm going to make a cool game no matter what. Okay. Um, if everybody answers that,
1:16:05
this is going to go fast. Uh, Phil, I'll go the opposite and I'll name an exact game and I'll tell you exactly who did it. Uh, I'm going to plug Fabula
1:16:13
Ultima, published by Need Games, designed by Emanuel Galato. Galto Galto.
1:16:18
Yeah. Uh, Fabula Ultima is a game that aims to emulate uh, both Japanese uh,
1:16:24
role playing games like Final Fantasy and also their tabletop games which tend to run a little bit rules lighter than ours. But it does so in a way where it
1:16:33
kind of scratches both sides of this divide for me in that you've got uh, you've got kind of a fairly lightweight
1:16:39
resolution system. You've got points that the players can use to kind of swing the story in their favor similar
1:16:44
to like fate points or something like that. uh which the GM also gets a taste of which is pretty cool. But then on the
1:16:50
other side, it has one of the most crunchiest like character building
1:16:55
settings where like if you like finding cool combos of character abilities, you will love Fabula Ultima. Um your every
1:17:03
character starts at level five and you have to divide it among at least two of their classes which are really just like
1:17:08
the packages of skills and bonuses and like just like building characters and seeing like cool combos that you can
1:17:14
come up with. Uh it's makes a little part of my brain very happy. So like it
1:17:19
it straddles that divide I think between here's the crunchy side and here's the narrative side really well. So um Fabula
1:17:24
Ultima is probably my answer. Liz, you know, I'm actually going to say D and D 5e. And part of that is just
1:17:32
naturally I played D and D 5e more than I've played other games. But you know, I
1:17:38
played some Pathfinder and Starfinder and I really enjoyed those. but there are so many options that you kind of go
1:17:45
crazy with them. Like there are just so many different ways to build a character it feels a little overkill. And I've
1:17:51
played uh Call of Cthulhu, which is also there are a lot of choices to make and
1:17:57
mathematical calculations to do while you're making a character. And I played uh Powered by the Apocalypse and
1:18:04
Polymorph games that are more rules light and focused on a narrative experience and kind of playing
1:18:10
makebelieve with your friends with some rules for arbitration. And what I like
1:18:15
about DD is that it has rules and it has a structure to it. So you have rules to
1:18:21
lean on, but you can also you can take a lighter touch. You have a structure when you need a structure, but you can also
1:18:28
go lighter. And while I have played both, I am happy to play both. I think I prefer games with an initiative system
1:18:36
because it just gives me it's easier to keep track of for me because whether I'm
1:18:42
playing in an initiative free system or I'm running an initiative free system, I kind of have to be in my head watching,
1:18:48
okay, when should I jump in? Did I take a did I do something this round? I don't
1:18:54
remember. And when I'm running a game, it's like, okay, who's I want to make sure everyone has a chance to move, even
1:19:00
though we aren't doing a strict turnbased system. Did this person move? Did they do that last turn? Are they?
1:19:06
So, Dn D is kind of a It feels like a middle ground. It's not super crunchy,
1:19:11
but it has a lot of structure for anything you want to do. What about you,
1:19:16
Matt? Gamma World. I like Gamma World. Uh, I don't know why. Um, there's actually a lot of games
1:19:24
that I could say. The the thing is is I there are a lot of games that are equally crunchy but differently crunchy.
1:19:30
Like honestly, I kind of enjoyed running rifts since Joe mentioned Palladium.
1:19:35
I'll just admit it. I enjoyed playing Rifts. The balance was was not there. There was no balance. Every book brought
1:19:42
out new even more powerful things repeatedly over and over again. It made third edition look mellow in terms of
1:19:49
like every book everything in this book is 10 times better than everything in every previous book. But it was easy to
1:19:55
run. It was not hard to run that game. The rules were just enough to to run it.
1:20:00
Um like a lot of superhero games for the same reason. Uh so yeah, but I I honestly feel that if I'm going to pick
1:20:08
one, I'm going to say Gamma World Fourth Edition. Uh which is basically just running D and D fourth edition. And
1:20:14
quite frankly, I think D and D four edition, fourth edition, I understand why people didn't like it and I didn't
1:20:19
like it at first, but now that I've had time to really sit with it, I think it's my my most like I admire it the most of
1:20:28
any D and D game. Just it it it tried a lot of interesting stuff and it it fixed
1:20:33
the wizard problem. Like mages, you know, we're higher level now. The mage just destroys everything
1:20:39
all the everybody with magic is just killing everything. And you you marshall classes. Yeah. You just sit here and
1:20:46
fight the the goblins and keep them off the mages. And the mages are going to just take care of everything. Fourth edition, everybody had cool powers they
1:20:52
could use whenever they needed to. Everybody had cool, you know, few times a day powers and everybody had what
1:20:59
would effectively be called ultimates if it was in a video game. And I liked it. I straight up thought it was
1:21:05
interesting. So, I'm going to go with that. But that is the podcast. Uh, thank you so much for everybody for being here
1:21:11
with us. Um, I think we'll be back next month because we do this monthly, right? I'm not insane. Yep.
1:21:16
Yep. Okay. You're not insane. I mean, you may be insane, but not about this. Yes. Not specifically insane in this
1:21:22
situation. All right. Well, thank you guys for being here with us. [Music]

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