Up next in 10
This week, Joe and Matt take to the mailbag to answer your questions, which are as varied as you are. First, since WoW has a tendency to bring back characters from the dead, and we just quote-unquote "killed" Gallywix, do we think he's actually dead, or will he be back? Then, in harkening back to a past episode, the connection between the Arathi and the Nerubians -- and whether the Nazrethim is what is keeping them in balance.
Also, we discuss Galactus and his place in the Marvel universe. As I recall it's mostly "eating it," but Joe and Matt have a lot to say on the topic.
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0:00
[Music]
0:10
hello and welcome to Lore Watch a round table free form discussion about lore in your favorite media i'm your host Joe Perez one of several lore focused folks
0:17
from Blizzard Watch and I've got my stupendous Herald with me today Matt Rossy how you doing today Matt
0:24
i'm kind of annoyed that I didn't get the super like surfboard or the flaming wings or you know the the axe or
0:31
anything and you you really skimped on your Herald's cosmic doodads i only have
0:37
so much money man ah well thank you for joining us
0:43
today friends we're going to be answering some questions from you our wonderful listeners if you have
0:48
questions for this or any of our podcasts be sure to send those into podcastbasedwatch.com specify the show
0:55
that it's for as well as any special pronunciation of your name uh you can go
1:01
ahead and also hit us up on Discord we have two sections set aside the Q and Podcast questions channel which is open
1:07
to everybody uh same rules apply there sending us an email we also have a section for our Patreon supporters as a
1:14
way of saying thank you for helping us keep the site going we look there first
1:19
uh and kind of pull those questions in whenever we can uh and if you don't want to send us an email you don't want to
1:24
send us anything on Discord you can also hit us up directly through the Patreon and Liz will get those questions to us
1:32
but without further ado let's go ahead with our first question and this one comes from Verdigree who we've answered
1:38
many in the past for uh but this is not necessarily a wow question uh instead
1:45
well the only two Fantastic 4 villains I know a little bit about are Dr doom and Galactus so I thought I'd ask what's
1:52
exactly up with Galactus and his place in the ecosystem is he essentially to the Is he essential to the food chain to
1:58
deter predators uh as I've heard mentioned could you not just use the power of agriculture to feed him plant
2:04
some forest on a spare rock and serve it up to him uh this is relevant because in the uh very I think it's coming out in a
2:13
few weeks at the time of this recording the uh Fantastic 4 movie the
2:18
new one First Steps is uh going to be releasing and it has been revealed that the main villain is going to be a
2:25
traditional Fantastic 4 villain Galactis uh and their Harold the Silver Surfer so
2:31
I guess I'll kick this over to Matt who really wanted to answer this question first or start with this question and uh
2:37
I'm going to see where Matt goes with this okay uh basics first um Galactis
2:44
was born in the universe previous to the the main one that we see in Marvel
2:49
comics um the sixth universe right uh yeah the six cosmos it's called um
2:54
during his life uh his universe was heading towards the end of its existence
3:00
and he was determined to explore and figure out why this was happening um he
3:06
did so uh he he launched himself from his planet Ta his name at the time was
3:12
Galen so he was Galen of Ta and like other ta ins I don't know the what the
3:18
tic tish people I don't but yeah but like the other people from his planet
3:24
they had a high they were very civilized people they had very high uh
3:29
science he actually managed to find the soul of his universe um a being that
3:36
called itself the confluence of the sixth cosmos and it explained to him uh yeah
3:42
you know this universe is dying And it preserved him it basically walled
3:48
him up in a cocoon and so when the universe died he survived didn't he kind
3:54
of like fuse with the essence too like didn't he become part of that essence so that it would carry forward yes uh but I
4:00
was going to explain that a little bit later because I um but yes that is what happened uh I guess I'll just explain as
4:08
as far back as the third cosmos we know that each cosmos has had a being in it
4:16
that played the same basic role as Galactis some were outright maniacal and
4:22
evil others were not um but the one that that happened in the
4:27
third cosmos I trying I'm trying to remember this uh Aluing writes a lot and
4:32
so it's kind of like I'm sitting here trying to remember everything that he did
4:38
um in the the one yeah the third cosmos one uh actually was a fourth cosmos one
4:44
sorry I remember I misremembered I think I remembered it wrong because he would have been from the third cosmos cuz
4:50
that's what the thing is each of these beings is a is a relic from the previous
4:56
reality it's the previous cosmos the fourth was the queen wasn't it the queen of numbers oh no the one in the fourth
5:03
cosmos was what must be which actually had kind of a a sort
5:08
of opposite to itself called the what can be uh so like like one side was about
5:16
endings and destruction and the other was about creation and possibility and that's in the fourth cosmos we don't
5:24
really know much about the fifth cosmos we know it existed but we don't know
5:29
anything about it other than the fact that it existed we know it was in the fifth cosmos we do we know we know something actually about that now
5:35
because of recent comics we know that that we know that that is the source of all magic now
5:42
no I think you're talking about Omnimax that's the uh Omnimax was in the sixth cosmos
5:48
i understand that but according to current comics the fifth cosmos that person was the originator uh of the
5:55
source of all magic in the universe this is according to the comics just just saying oh which comic uh I forgot which
6:02
one it was recently they started doing some Doctor Strange stuff but it's the it explains the origin of the uh the
6:08
first sorcerer supreme Moridon who is Moridon is Omnimax
6:14
Moran is from Moridon was the he was the devour he becomes the herald he becomes
6:19
the galactus of the sixth but the fifth is where all magic comes from yeah but that's not the devourer who lived in the
6:25
fifth cosmos that's Omnimax in the sixth cosmos he was Moradon in the fifth co he
6:32
was a sorcerer supreme then but he wasn't he wasn't the Yeah
6:37
yeah yeah sorry sorry yeah we're we're we're we're one behind yeah i get you i get you so in the We don't know the
6:44
entity in the fifth cosmos we don't know who he was other than he would have been a survivor of the fourth cosmos in the
6:51
sixth cosmos the uh devourer was named Omnimax and during his time as the
6:58
devourer he was just known as Omnimax later it was determined that Omnimax had
7:04
been Moridon who was the sorcerer supreme in the fifth cosmos at it time
7:09
it ended and basically did the same thing he went he was exploring trying to
7:15
find a way to save his universe he ran into whatever the eternity version of
7:21
that time period that that cosmos was and ended up fused with it and ended up
7:26
as Omnivax so this has happened over and over again we don't know if it's been happening uh since the first cosmos
7:32
because we know the first cosmos was practically just one step removed from being
7:38
like a place where your thoughts just happened mhm um we've seen the first cosmos was very much just a place of
7:46
archetypes um whereas it it's like every cosmos seems to get more for lack of a better word more
7:52
realistic yeah i don't know they each have like names that they refer to right like I just want to kind of kind of give
7:58
you a little more context before we go back into Galactus uh the first cosmos was the reality of nothing the second
8:04
cosmos was the birth of creation the third cosmos was the origin of basically the first hero um I forgot what it was
8:13
like hero font or something like that what they call it the fourth was the progenitor of possibility uh the fifth
8:19
was the again as noted the source of all magic the sixth was the origin of science and birthplace of the devourer
8:24
of worlds as Matt pointed out uh the seventh cosmos was the home of the old
8:30
Marvel comics the original like eternity and uh infinity were from that we're
8:37
talking like the old old Marvel comics uh and then we're currently in the eighth cosmos which is the modern
8:43
multiverse which everything exists in in the modern day uh I believe we call them
8:50
silver age comics no no not silver age comics i forgot what the age I think it's just modern age comics uh but yeah
8:57
so yeah silver age was the ' 60s and 70s bronze Age was the 80s and 90s uh
9:02
nowadays is usually just called modern yeah but to go back to to Galactis in
9:08
specific similar to what happened with Omnimax when Galen of Ta went looking um
9:15
Mor Moran had the benefit of being a saucer supreme so he could basically call up his universe's version of
9:21
eternity himself galen had to physically go looking for him mhm um but he did
9:27
find him and he did end up like essentially carrying the seed of all pre
9:33
basically what happens with the devourer in every universe is it's carrying the
9:38
seed of the previous universe with it all the stuff that happened in it comes
9:44
through with the devourer without the devourer that connection doesn't exist
9:51
and without that connection you get what happened in the seventh and eighth cosmoses because here's the thing the
9:57
eighth cosmos is just a complete retread of the seventh cosmos well because it wasn't created through the normal
10:03
process it was created by Reed Richards and the molecule man out of the destruction of the previous cosmos at
10:10
the hands of Beyonders who were not related at all to the Beyonder from the
10:15
original Secret Wars except they kind of were and the new Secret War was going was not related at all to the original
10:22
Secret Wars except it kind of was and I'm not getting into that cuz it's crazy
10:28
um but as a result uh Galactis when he was birthed into our universe uh he was
10:35
he was in a dormant state for a while but when he awakened uh he began going
10:41
through the universe and devouring things uh and one of the points he himself makes is to a
10:47
sheep a farmer might be its favorite thing because it can it protects and
10:53
keeps their home or they if the farm is big enough they might not even know the farmer exists they will might not know
11:00
that the sheep is his favorite sheep they have no concept they only know the farmer when he when he comes to the end
11:06
because he's hungry you know and that's the way
11:11
Galactis is to the universe without Galactis there is no farm without the
11:17
farm there is no life what Galactis does in our universe looks cruel um and to us
11:23
it's horrifying because we are the sheep we're ants watching our antills get
11:30
destroyed but the reason Galactus does it is to preserve all of eternity um death and eternity who are
11:39
they're both cosmic forces in the Marvel universe and also they each have an opposite who is kind of still them like
11:46
um uh Joe just mentioned infin infinity which is eternity's opposite number but
11:51
for time the way eternity is for space death has oblivion who is her opposite
11:59
none of them are are what you'd call good or evil they're cosmic forces that are concerned with like specific aspects
12:06
of creation yeah you You know we've talked about before in the previous episodes about like the Pantheon and and
12:12
things like that there's a there's a level of entity that is just they deal with their purpose and that's it and the
12:18
thing is is that Galactus is essentially emmeritus into this group because they
12:24
carries inside him the the the equivalent of eternity and infinity from
12:30
the previous universe just like Omnimax did in his universe and that goes back
12:36
at least to the third the third cosmos because somebody in that cosmos came
12:41
into the fourth cosmos and was the same being and that's
12:46
how Mor Moridan I want to say Morland but I think it is Moran morland's the vampire guy you hate Spider-Man uh
12:53
that's how he became Omnimax he saw what that thing was doing he and it he used
12:59
he used it as a clue to discover how he could do it and jump himself into the next universe and then in that universe
13:05
thanks to a crazy Reed Richards alternate um he ended up going to the far future but we're gonna we're gonna
13:12
ignore that for now um so that's basically Galactus's deal he's he is a
13:18
former mortal named um Galen who on the planet Ta realized his universe was
13:23
coming to an end and went exploring to find out why he ran into essentially his
13:28
universe's version of eternity a entity that embodied the whole universe and
13:34
that being used him to essentially jump into the next timeline the next universe
13:42
in so doing bringing every experience that he had into that universe and making the connection between those
13:48
universes possible the only reason you can go back into previous universes is
13:54
because of this connection it's the only reason eternity infinity death and oblivion know what happened in the
14:01
previous universes because Galactis brought them that information once he gets to the new
14:08
universe once the devourer of worlds gets to the next universe his role is
14:13
both life and death he he not just by the connection
14:20
of the two he he brings death to create life but also he sometimes creates
14:26
life in this lifebringer form and when he does that he's doing it in a way that
14:32
causes ultimately death like it it's just part of the cycle life and death are inter
14:38
intertwined in the Marvel universe um so anyway getting back to Galactus
14:44
himself you know you can't just plant some trees because it's not He has
14:50
devoured planets that had no life on them mhm at all it's It's not life he's
14:56
looking for it's the specific energy of a world that could sustain life the
15:03
world doesn't have to be doing so it just has to have the ability to do so
15:08
and that means there are planets out there with life on them that he wouldn't eat like to to give you an example he
15:16
would not eat to use a different um franchise here but if you're thinking about Warhammer 40k because I've been
15:22
playing a lot of Rogue Traders so I'm sorry it's on my head there are worlds in there called hive worlds galactus
15:28
wouldn't eat them because they're polluted the the life is way out of control he would
15:35
probably just destroy them if Galactus was walking through the 40k setting he'd eat what they call death worlds because
15:41
those are usually full of life he's not going to eat a hive world because it is just like a giant dead ball covered with
15:47
like humans just sucking the what little life is left out of that planet that
15:52
wouldn't be of any use to him covered in humans might be in a stretch but yeah that's a whole that's a whole other topic yeah I'm trying to be to break it
16:00
down here um but yeah that's the deal with Galactus essentially Galactus is like a keyhole
16:06
uh between realities between the previous and the new and when this universe ends it's supposed to end in
16:14
such a way that eternity has time to basically pick somebody and infuse
16:19
themselves into that person so that when that Yeah the that person will then go
16:24
forth into the next universe and be the Galactis for it yeah so in a way the
16:30
weird way to put it is Galactus is essentially the ghost of a previous universe he and he's a little bit more
16:37
than that too because there's aspects of it that I think are really interesting as well like we can talk about the whole
16:42
Araxis situation a little bit um Galactis has died in the comics a couple
16:49
times uh as far as like what constitutes death to an infinite being but you start
16:55
to realize what necessity to the multiverse Galactis is at this point
17:01
because in the death of Galactis Abrais which was basically the metaphysical embodiment of
17:07
destruction spawned from eternity uh escapes imprisonment because Galactis
17:12
being able there to be a continuation of that essential God cosmic energy is what
17:17
keeps that particular entity at bay and it's the same thing there there are tons of other entities that Galactus being in
17:25
the universe keeps at the fringes or keeps their prisons going through the actions that they're taking and I
17:32
remember several times in the comics Galactus would would you know he's talked about what he does i don't take
17:39
joy in this this is simply what I must do um and like you go through and you
17:44
look through it and it's it's just it's fascinating and Arais was the type of of entity uh that like was able to uh
17:53
attack Uatu the watcher an entity that's supposed to be so far removed and a
17:58
power scale from everything that it just it observes and is not supposed to be in able to be interacted with unless it
18:04
chooses to uh and he was able to take him down uh Abraasis turned uh you know
18:10
taunted the Fantastic 4 uh which you know trying to get them to find the ultimate nullifier so that he could find
18:17
it first uh he you know mobilized an entire army of novas under his influence
18:24
to attack Earth like all these other things that that that Galactus keeps at
18:31
bay go ahead mhm we should point out one of the reasons that that Araus could do all these things is Araus is literally
18:38
the inversion yeah he's the opposite of and the reason is that is when a universe is created
18:45
um the destruction of the previous universe would create an Abraasis like
18:51
entity uh but in order to prevent that that's one of the that's just one of the things that devourers of worlds do is
18:58
they prevent that ex that entity from coming into this universe essentially they displace it
19:06
galactis being there is what stops Abrais from doing anything because Abrais can't enter that place while
19:13
Galactis is sitting there that's why I said he's a key yeah uh because he's essentially jamming up the lock so Orais
19:21
can't step in yeah there's also uh there's also a thing with um the whole annihilation run i don't remember if you
19:27
read that or if you're familiar with that where like again what is it i think they call them the promeial gods prime
19:34
because it wasn't primeval it was promeial gods um were basically being
19:39
summoned forth to conquer the universe by annihilis and Galactis was one of the
19:45
only things that could possibly uh stop them which is why Annihilist wanted to use Galactus as a bomb capable of
19:51
destroying every life in the universe because again that's the power level that uh Galactus has galactus also the
19:58
interesting thing that I don't think gets enough conversation galactus also shepherds life like Matt said earlier uh
20:04
the whole New World thing right there was a planet uh that was essentially
20:11
dying uh its power core was the power of its center of its core was essentially
20:17
uh being drained it was going through essentially its death cycle and it was not a planet that Galactus was going to
20:22
eat and instead Galactus actually went to Earth to go get Reed Richards to bring him to New World to fix the planet
20:32
ultimately like he wound up destroying the planet not eating it destroying it because they tried to enslave Galactus
20:38
as the new power source for the planet not with Reed Richard's help on that one uh but like just that entire interaction
20:45
right like think about this galactus had been repelled by from Earth by Reed Riches in the Fantastic 4 galactus
20:52
wandering the universe i think at this point he doesn't have a herald anymore finds this planet decides that it needs
20:58
to be saved and preserved for whatever infinite reason the the being of
21:04
Galactus has goes back to Earth to get Reed Richards cuz he's like "All right
21:09
well this is the smartest person in the universe and likely the person that he would have chosen to be his successor
21:14
anyway uh go ahead and and and get over here." It was it was a very interesting
21:22
look into it because again Galactus was trying to preserve life not destroy it
21:27
and I think that is infinitely fascinating galactus is a
21:32
very a very strange character for a lot of of people in that they just think of
21:38
him as a harbinger right he's just he's just destruction but it's not it's like the
21:45
living embodiment the living codeex of all universes that came beforehand and until moving from the seventh to the
21:51
eighth which again as Matt pointed out moving from the seventh which was a single universe to the eighth which was
21:58
essentially the recreation of all the multiverse by Reed Richards uh resulted
22:04
in a multiverse not a single universe and I think that's Owen Reese's fault
22:10
that's the molecule man's influence in my opinion i would agree uh to a certain level but I mean Reed Reed should have
22:16
been smart enough to understand what was going on but that's a whole other again that's a whole other topic but the other interesting thing about that is that
22:22
does make Galactis a multiversal being to a certain extent influences and
22:28
pieces of Galactis exist in all of the multiverse they take on different forms
22:33
but they all serve the same function the original uh Ultimate Galactis looked a
22:38
lot like the Sentinels uh from like the Sentinel Swarms from the Matrix um where
22:44
they did the exact same function uh they just had far less personality uh but there's that's
22:50
actually interesting because if you look at the uh original appearance of the of Galactis in the comic that did his
22:57
secret origin not not this first Fantastic 4 appearance but the first chronological appearance of Galactus he
23:02
appears as just a cloud of energy yeah which um funnily enough the watchers
23:09
I was going to say funnily enough is in the first Fantastic 4 movie everybody hated but it was comic accurate yeah and
23:15
in that the watcher is like I could kill him now but I can't the universe has
23:20
demanded he live even if galaxies must die and that goes back to the whole idea
23:27
i I I don't know how to to get this one across but I'm going to try at there was
23:33
a comic book that was written by John Burns so you know I have lots of thoughts about John Burn most of them are not charitable but I will give him
23:40
credit on this one it was a good idea he came up with here when Galactis Galactis
23:46
basically shows up when a bunch of alien nations including the Shar come and grab
23:53
Reed Richards and put him on trial for the crime of having saved Galactis cuz
23:59
Galactus came to Earth starving and was so weakened that the heroes of Earth just beat him up it was the first time
24:06
Galactus had ever just lost a fight he was that starving and but Reeb was like
24:12
"We can't let him die he's a thinking being uh it's not you know his the fact
24:17
that he eats worlds doesn't change the fact that he is a thinking cognizant being i can't just sit here and watch
24:22
him die." So they build a little ga gadget and Thor of all people is the only one there who could survive
24:30
providing Galactus with the energy he needed because unlike the ever other people there Thor is a
24:36
god thor is technically immortal until he dies like which I know sounds
24:42
contradictory but it's the Norse gods it's just the way they are he manages to give Galactus enough
24:48
energy to get up but Galactus is like you know I this doesn't change anything
24:53
i have to eat i mean if you if you don't let me eat this planet I'll die so I'm
25:00
going to have to eat it and and I think it was uh Johnny Storm's girlfriend at the time Frankie Ray who is the
25:06
granddaughter of Phineas Horton who is the scientist who created the android Human Torch and she had firepowers
25:11
because he spilled some stuff on her it's comic books just let it go um but
25:16
she's like "Well you did that thing with the Silver Surfer you just make another Herald." I
25:22
mean you know he's like "I'm too weak i would need to pick somebody who already has abilities that I could modify i
25:29
can't just make somebody like the surfer." And she goes "Well I've got flame powers
25:35
make me your herald i'll take you i don't care about you know I'll let you eat a few planets just as long as you
25:41
don't eat the one I'm on now." And they're all like "That's horrible don't do it." And she's like "Why not the
25:46
chance to go to space and save the planet i'm I'm down." Galactus chooses
25:51
her makes herald and the first thing she does is take him to the scroll throne world mhm and he eats
25:58
it because he's hungry you know um when he consumes the scroll home world uh
26:05
that that becomes the cause celeb for the trial of Reed Richards that's why they they go and grab him because
26:11
they're like you know you're responsible for this you could have let him die and he's like you know I I could have let
26:17
him die but it would have been unconscionable um he was a thinking entity i'm not a
26:23
murderer and so they're like yeah you're you're going to get boned and then Galactis shows
26:29
up and of course everybody you know takes a dump you know in their pants
26:34
because it's freaking Galactus there's a really cool moment there where everybody looking at Galactus sees something
26:40
different all the different alien races basically see themselves reflected in
26:45
Galactus mhm which is why to us he appears as if he's a giant humanoid yeah if you're like a a shar he's a big shi
26:53
if you're like you know one of the there's like a bird no the sh the bird people there's like a like a reptile
26:58
people he looks like a big reptile or he doesn't always look like them but he looks like something they can relate to
27:05
mhm and that's the first clue that that Galactis is what you he brings to the
27:11
world the universe all the things from his previous universe but the other thing here is that after Galactus shows
27:19
up they'll be like well you know why should we listen to you you kill us eternity shows
27:25
up and basically just says here you know and and in their minds they suddenly understand Galactis's true purpose but
27:31
it's too big for them to remember it they can only remember that it was shared with them they can't remember
27:38
what it was and so that to me you you ask why
27:43
can't we just you know have him eat trees we don't know but there is a reason it's just not one we can
27:48
comprehend yeah and I think the other interesting thing too is Galactus I think understands to an a a limitation
27:56
of his own perception of reality which I think is an interesting aspect of it which is why Galactus has a herald and
28:02
pretty much always has a herald i think recently is one of the few like Galactus
28:09
doesn't have a herald where he isn't just going unhinged um but like there
28:14
have been so many heralds of Galactus over the years silver Surfer being probably the the most famous with
28:20
Frankie Ray being the second most as far as I'm concerned but people often forget that some other Marvel characters with
28:28
very interesting moral compasses were also heralds of Galactus at several
28:33
points and in some whatif comics thor at one point was a herald of Galactis uh
28:40
which I think that whole story run was well worth uh the read if you have time
28:45
it's it's just fascinating to see uh Thor like a god a god try to essentially
28:53
stand against the destruction of the universe uh by being a herald of galactis dazzler was once a herald of
29:01
Galactis uh Doctor Strange once took on the mantle of the Herald of Galactus
29:06
human Torch did as well as did Invisible Woman uh as did Aunt May at one point in
29:13
the comics okay that's a what if man I did say whatifs at the beginning of this did I not uh that one is not that's a
29:19
that that one was an editor's week that was an editor month comic dude it was absolutely it was when she was
29:25
babysitting Franklin Richards but this this is a thing that happened which is very interesting franklin himself has
29:31
been made into a Herald of Galactus a couple of times and even when he hasn't been in in various universes it's
29:36
usually said that at the end of the universe he's going to be there with Galactus yeah and then one of the other ones that I think is probably one of the
29:42
more famous ones that has gotten a lot of attention especially on uh as far as like media goes YouTube has been pushing
29:49
this a lot lately for people uh because of Deadpool being so recently released in movie theaters deadpool was not a
29:56
Herald of Galactus but in a whatif or an alternate timeline Frank Castle was as the cosmic
30:03
ghost rider the powers of the Herald of Galactus with the spirit of vengeance a
30:09
space assassin motorcycle dude Frank Castle
30:14
which is a whole interesting story about him essentially dying going to jail in
30:20
in in Valhalla getting released from uh prison in Valhalla then trying to go back in time to murder baby Thanos to
30:28
realizing he can't murder a kid so he tries to raise Thanos as uh his son
30:34
essentially uh and then it turns into he's still just Thanos so he just
30:40
becomes the Punisher uh but Thanos and brings order to the universe in the way that Frank Castle would have as Punisher
30:46
it is wild uh and well worth the read but like it's just it's interesting like to see how many characters they played
30:55
with the idea of being Herolds of Galactus and how important that role really is um yeah I'm going to I'm going
31:02
to do this because I'm too much of a nerd not to uh the ones I can remember off top my head are the first one or the
31:07
fallen one uh and yes I know that's also the name of the fallen from from Transformers uh not necessarily re
31:15
relevant although someday we will get to talk about how I think Galactis and Unicron are the same thing just in
31:20
different timelines or something uh but anyway the fallen one uh who then he got
31:26
kicked out for just being he Galactus didn't like the guy let's put it that way galactus was like "You're too into
31:32
the death part of this i'm not doing this cuz I like killing things this is
31:38
necessary he was the first i'm not a maniac." Yeah he was the first so he's literally called the first or the fallen one uh after him we don't know if there
31:45
were any more for a while but we know that the Silver Surfer is usually considered the best of them both morally
31:52
and just in terms of power he was just the strongest um after him he got
31:58
himself exiled to Earth after a while Galactus was like "Okay I need to get a new one." He ran into a dying
32:06
uh Xandarian named uh Oh really heck what was he gabrielle yeah his name's Gary Gary Alan yep yeah and he basically
32:13
becomes the next Herald he becomes the air walker who has kind of power over
32:19
air and flying he eventually ends up dying and becoming a robot and the robot
32:24
is the herald of Galactus as well yeah an android duplicate of him was made yeah yeah that's all very complicated
32:30
when he basically vanished and no one knew what had happened to him because they didn't know he was dead and now a
32:35
robot um one of his friends and I can never remember his original name pyus
32:40
Krill I think pyus Krill the Fire Lord yeah yeah he comes and goes "Where's my friend?" And Galactus is like "Are you
32:47
seriously like I'm Galactis did you not see the giant ship?" And he's like "I
32:52
don't care my friend is missing." You know tell me what you did with him he goes "I didn't do anything with him he was my herald." And then he vanished
32:58
goes "All right well then you means you don't have a herald right i'll do it as long as you let me look for him when I'm
33:04
not finding you planets uh Galactus was like "Yeah okay fine." He made Fire Lord
33:09
fire Lord is most famous for coming to Earth and being a jerk and trying to kill Spider-Man and Spider-Man beat him
33:17
up after Thor warned him not to fight Spider-Man yeah um Spider-Man actually took him and
33:25
and the the way the fight is it's Peter Parker spending the entire dime literally like just barely holding on
33:33
but in the end coming through because it's like the Parker luck thing actually
33:38
works to quote to quote the Beyonder he has more power than he ever knows yeah i don't I think the basic thing is
33:44
that Spider-Man can get beat he can lose but he can't be beaten mhm like you
33:52
can't like you can win against him but you can't make him give up you can't
33:58
make him go you know if if Spider-Man was fighting the uh what's the name of the guy from the elves of the universe
34:04
the champion yep if Spider-Man was fighting that guy that guy could win the fight but he could never get Spidey to
34:10
tap out much like when the Thing fought him which which we could have have a whole episode of this because I want to
34:16
talk about this the the seven deaths of Spider-Man at some point because is it the eight deaths or eight deaths of
34:21
Spider-Man sorry um because that is just a wild comic and is the p perfect personification of that exact mentality
34:28
uh but that's that's all a topic for another day uh but we will get there eventually yeah we we can't the whole
34:35
Spider-Man thing it's it's big but to get back to Galactis Galactis is not
34:40
without compassion and even worse he's not without love he fell in love with
34:46
one of his heralds he didn't tell her he didn't change the way Yeah he fell in
34:52
love with Frank Frankie Ray because of his heralds she first off she was the one spending time with him secondly she
34:58
was the only one that never complained about what he wanted to do um half of
35:03
them complained because they thought he was doing what he was doing was horrible like you know Silver Surfer could only watch him eat so many plants with people
35:09
on it before he just couldn't do it anymore other half of them thought he
35:14
wasn't going like he wasn't hard enough like the fallen one Morg morg is another
35:20
one and Tra terra wanted to kill Galactis and take
35:26
his place mhm i mean he couldn't i mean that's like saying "I want to kill this mountain and take its place." No it's a
35:31
mountain you're not but Tra was really willing to try tax is the only person I
35:37
ever seen who actually managed to overcome Dr doom's initial
35:44
betrayal and only didn't succeed in killing him because Doom had yet another
35:49
card up his sleeve like he actually projected his mind out of his own body
35:55
uh Tra Yeah Tarax whole thing essentially the other thing about Galactus that we haven't even mentioned
36:02
yet and my god there's so much to mention um the thing that Galactus controls is a thing called the power
36:08
cosmic the power cosmic is essentially what makes the universe exist mhm uh
36:14
it's the same thing both death and eternity draw on it uh in a way both of
36:20
them make it and that's the other thing to keep in mind too in this universe where you have the the two dark death
36:26
obsessed beings and the two life beings they're not opposed they don't fight death is
36:33
eternity sister like if he found out somebody was messing with her he'd try and stop it and the same goes for
36:40
Oblivion and Infinity uh and in a way each other as well so in this whole
36:46
thing you need a balance point and the balance point of the fulcrum that is
36:52
these forces is Galactis what Galactus does affects that balance
36:59
which is another reason why entities like the uh the Celestials
37:04
um somebody who has an Infinity Gauntlet they're the kind of things that you require a being like Galactus to stop
37:12
mhm um he just his his existence saying he is ridiculous galactus does not have
37:18
a gender but uh you know we we look in the comic and it looks like a big dude so we're like "Oh yeah yeah he's a big
37:23
dude." Um Galactis is an entity that remembers being a mortal
37:31
being but now is not mhm and will exist potentially into the next universe for
37:37
all we know we already He's already done it once like every time Galactis dies he
37:43
almost immediately gets up again because death can't really hold him and life
37:48
doesn't really contain him so yeah there there's a a ton of reasons why you can't just plant some trees on a
37:55
planet and have Galactus go eat it uh you need a world that actually could sustain life it's why we can't just say
38:00
"Hey look why don't you eat Mars it's right there there's some microbes that used to be on it." Mars is not a planet
38:07
that has the potential for real sustained life on it and therefore it is not suitable for Galactus' purposes
38:15
um oddly enough there are planets that Galactus you know has has straight up
38:24
eaten be without there being life on them and that's what the Silver Surfer used to try to do all the time was find
38:30
him one of those worlds uh but in the end it's usually much easier for Galactis and you think about it it'd be
38:37
like if you had a friend who kept not letting you have that sandwich like "No we got to go over to this one that one's
38:42
20 miles away i can't go to that 20 the sandwich is right here dude that sandwich is covered in microbes those
38:47
microbes have as much right to live as you do you know that's kind of what it was like hanging out with the Silver Surfer he's like "Oh my god why did I
38:54
make fun friends with this cockroach now he won't let me eat anything." Uh so yeah uh if you have
38:59
anything else to say go for it i think I've covered pretty much everything I'd like to talk about with Galactus although there's always more but you
39:05
know that's the same with everything yeah there there's always more and I know that one of the other offshoot questions is the the alternate reality
39:12
uh Galactuses or in some cases what's happening with Marvel rivals which the with the daughter of Galactus Galactica
39:19
which that's a whole other section of story which we can talk about if people are interested in but yeah and I do have
39:25
to say I I find her charming let's put it that way i find her charming
39:31
uh but we might talk more about this stuff as the Marvel movies hit their new
39:36
phase because I do think this is one of the more interesting phases specifically because I do think that bringing
39:42
Galactis back at this time and bringing the Fantastic 4 back in general is
39:47
really good timing and very very interesting at least to me um I will
39:53
point one other thing um too this is not about the comics at all this is about the people who make the comics but I
39:58
feel like that's that's a side note uh when Galactus was originally created it
40:04
was because Jack Kirby kept saying to to Stan "We can't just have them fight another villain they should fight
40:11
God." And Stan was like "Jack I can't have them fighting God in the comic that
40:19
like people would destroy me i mean they would come to my house." And so they basically came up with Galactis as a as
40:26
a essentially God like that's that was what it was like that was what the the
40:31
the metaphor of him was i've always loved that that Jack Kirby just walked up to him especially since nowadays in
40:39
Marvel comics Jack Kirby is considered to be God yeah the one above all yeah so
40:46
keep that one in mind for a second uh but hopefully that answers
40:51
your question Verdigree think we're going to move on though and see if we can get one or two more done in the time we have left but thank you very much for
40:57
asking that question and again just as a reminder for those of you listening at home if you want us to do an entire
41:03
episode on off topics well we have a list of ones that I would like to do uh if you have ones that are particularly
41:09
interesting to you be sure to send those in as well uh if they line up with uh stuff that is relevant or stuff that we
41:15
are are currently looking at doing anyway uh it's probably a good chance that it's going to get done and if not
41:21
we bank it for later so please go ahead and send those in um please ask Joe to talk about Warhammer 40k so I can get
41:28
him to explain the God Emperor to you guys uh and for those of you at home a little
41:34
behind the curtains I have a document of all the questions that I keep updated that you guys send into us and I try to
41:40
pull in from those questions whenever uh we have like a theme or or something
41:46
that I can base them around or if it just makes relevant sense i also have a list of themed shows that I would like
41:52
to do and 40k is definitely in there explaining the Imperium of Man is in there as is explaining orcs uh as is
42:01
explaining Elar and other various things because I absolutely love 40k so if that's something this one goes this one
42:07
goes fast cuz it's red this one very sneaky cuz purple anyway um if you are
42:14
interested in stuff like that please let us know and we'll be more than happy to do a show about it please I'm begging
42:19
you let me know if this is something you're interested in but we're going to move on to our next question which is from OneUp versus
42:25
CPU does the no corpse no death rule apply to Giwix he is crushed under his
42:30
mech in the cutscene but his corpse is nowhere to be seen when you go and loot
42:36
um I think it's just kind of handwaved here that his body is under the mech uh
42:44
when you're looting it because it's very rare that you a a big boss sequence it's very rare
42:51
that the body is left behind unless there's like a reason why the body is left behind uh in the case of like
42:57
Sylvanas it was because well she wasn't dead we just knocked her unconscious
43:02
um so I don't know uh but I do think he is actually dead and the reason I say
43:08
that is because I don't think anybody cares enough to try to save him and I mean that in like the galactic sense as
43:14
well i don't think Zalot has any use for him anymore because he already at this point has already repaired the dark
43:20
heart uh and the dark etherealss have already received it so she doesn't have
43:25
any reason to deal with him at all as a matter of fact one of the sequences that lead up to this is her saying "You
43:31
failed me uh peace i'm out of here him begging to make some form of deal and
43:38
her just noping out and leaving him to basically get dead by us
43:44
um I don't know that the goblins that we live behind too because that's the other
43:50
thing to keep in mind glo and the rest are still there when we leave the
43:58
Galagio i don't know that they would let Giwix live and I'm not saying that as in
44:03
they're bloodthirsty i'm saying that they understand that if he is alive
44:10
there will be no peace for the goblins goblin Society will not be able to move
44:15
forward and in fact they'll just get dragged behind and in the postsequence
44:21
of the Galagio there's a series of quests where you essentially find the heir to the Galagio the heir of Giwix
44:30
and that pretty much is yes they've seen the body they know he's dead for a fact
44:37
but also it's Warcraft death doesn't necessarily mean the end like maybe his
44:43
ghost comes back or we don't know where in the I mean I would assume he's in Reendrath in the Shadowlands at this
44:49
point uh yeah he ends up in the Shadowlands but his greed is so all-consuming that he basically starts
44:55
devouring other people um people'sma instead of releasing his own and he
45:01
grows into a gigantic bloated monstrosity that waddles around Revendrath trying you know spel belching
45:08
forth you know weird capitalist sayings while stomping on buildings that that
45:13
could happen i'd watch that movie i'd watch that movie i mean but that's the that's the thing isn't it we could sit
45:19
here and tell you all the reasons why he is dead but the second somebody on the writing
45:25
team decides he isn't dead and convinces people to to go with it he won't be
45:31
dead because these are fictional characters um and I don't I don't know how popular
45:39
Gywix is i don't think Gywix is super popular with people i don't think it would bug them if they never saw him
45:45
again but if they thought there was a reason to bring him back they might it I
45:51
think the no corpse no death rule thing it's not a rule first off it's just an it's just it's a it's an axiom it's
45:57
something people tell you you know hey this is a trope you got to keep this in mind this is the kind of thing that that
46:05
works for characters like the Joker um the Joker is never going to be
46:10
dead it doesn't matter you could have him on uh like in the panel impaled by a
46:17
stagmite with like you know his like you could have literally everybody there
46:23
Superman x-raying him yeah that's definitely the original Joker batman absolutely 100% the Joker doesn't matter
46:30
if the Joker need if they want to bring him back from the story and they do they're going to do it and they don't
46:36
care um but Gwix does Gywix have that kind of juice narratively do people
46:42
think "Oh wow i've got the ultimate Giwig story to tell." I don't know uh I I certainly think they could
46:50
definitely have done more with him visav Goblin players wanting to kick him in the butt uh I feel like he if you're
46:58
playing a goblin you never get your personal revenge on Giwix that's that's kind of how I feel i
47:04
don't feel like this this patch has given you personal revenge against Gi
47:10
for all the things he did at the end of the time that you know he he does all these horrible things essentially
47:15
enslaves you and he gets given control of goblins in the
47:20
horde and you you know you never really get payback for it but I don't know do you what do you think Joe you think you
47:26
feel like you've gotten revenge on it uh the thing is like I don't know that I necessarily because I'm that I'm playing a dark iron dwarf i don't know that my
47:33
character really cares right like I But if you were a goblin if I was a goblin I
47:38
don't know that I would have necessarily gotten my revenge i don't I don't think so so I don't know it's a You raise a
47:46
very interesting point i don't know what else to say about it but it's Yeah I feel like we've
47:53
covered this i feel Yeah we He'll come back if there is a reason for him to do so um he is not his death doesn't serve
48:02
such a big narrative purpose that it would be weird for him to come back like he's not Uncle Ben or Anduin Lothar the
48:09
Uncle Ben of Azeroth mhm i guess I know some weird places but anyway
48:14
so there's no narrative reason not to except that there's no narrative reason
48:20
to if that makes sense yeah fair enough all right I think we're going to
48:26
move on to the next one and this one comes from Menth uh in lore watch the
48:32
show that we did where you know about the Nathim about 20 minutes in you mentioned that the Nathine were there to
48:38
keep anyone from gaining the advantage and there is a one world quest where
48:44
such a statement is made about the Arafi and Spider people fighting in a balance
48:50
is this a nice link so we often talk about this where there's a level of
48:57
cycles in uh Warcraft storytelling they'll repeat a cycle of things
49:03
mirrored somewhere else it might not necessarily involve the same people or it might not even be in the same
49:09
timeline but you'll see parallels drawn between them and in the case of the
49:15
Arathi and uh why can I not remember the name of the empire down there
49:22
i mean I know they're Nurubians but I don't know the name of the actual I want to say no it's not Ankat I don't know what they are but in in dealing with the
49:29
Nubians you see a level of that sort of reflection where they're at a stalemate all these years and the only thing that
49:36
starts to break that stalemate is the arrival of Zalat and the night cycle of
49:42
Belelladar um it's it's a parallel but it's not
49:48
necessarily a link right these things can happen simultaneously and not be
49:54
related to each other whatsoever and I know the thought here because I've heard this from a lot of folks and I've seen this on Reddit quite a bit actually uh
50:02
is that the Nathim are behind the war uh of the Arai and uh the Narubians there
50:10
and I don't know that there's anything to really prove that case right now um
50:16
it certainly is a possibility but I would have I think I would have more likely have seen them in the priaryy in
50:23
dealing with that cultish behavior because that seems more what the Nath
50:29
are about instead of orchestrating a war between two factions instead they very
50:36
much like orchestrating war within a faction uh keeping them from doing
50:41
anything meaningful because they're too busy dealing with their own stuff and you know having one faction of Wrathy
50:47
versus the other faction of Wrathy would more fit that bill but I don't know that they're
50:53
necessarily involved or responsible for any of the break of this what do you think Matt i
51:00
mean I think you're right and that there really isn't any evidence that that this is happening
51:07
um what I would say is it would not
51:12
necessarily surprise me if they were involved but it wouldn't
51:18
surprise me if they weren't you don't need the Nathan to be behind everything
51:23
sometimes things just happen in cycles because life has cycles and rhythms to
51:29
it um and the idea of somebody not wanting either side to get the
51:35
ascendancy happens in real life it's it's happened in our history hundreds of times uh people have come in on the side
51:42
of people who are going to lose a war because they didn't want those other people to win the war mhm that's how
51:48
Napoleon got beat ultimately he won a lot of wars until everybody was so scared he was going to come and try and
51:54
take over wherever they lived that they all banded together to fight him um that kind of thing happens
52:01
and it's very possible for it to happen in this case
52:07
um that being said uh I mean if if you told me that
52:13
like the the people who are in charge in the Arafi are under the
52:20
influence of the Nathan i mean I'd say yeah kind of reminds me of you know the
52:25
Scarlet Crusade they had a bunch of paladins who started getting off the rails and fighting people and they were
52:32
being led by a NathraM um you know Balnazar so I wouldn't be
52:39
stunned if there was somebody I mean obviously not not my favorite uh you
52:45
know the the Lothar girl i I don't want her
52:50
to be you know run by a nathism but there's plenty of other people in Halofall who might be that I would
52:56
certainly not be tremendously surprised um I definitely don't think there was an
53:02
uh in a cahet because Valatath was directly there messing with um you know
53:10
the the various Nubians including Queen Ansurak the Nubians would not want to go up
53:16
against her toe-to-toe that's not their deal you know they're manipulators if
53:21
somebody's already manipulating somebody they're going to sit back and try to figure out how the heck does this work
53:28
um so yeah I I I don't think we need the Nurubians to be involved i think it's
53:33
just possible that somebody else would want to keep the uh Narubians
53:40
and the Arai from gaining ascendancy because either one if the Narubians gain
53:45
ascendancy then you've got a bunch of guys who love doing dark stuff and listening to the old gods
53:52
suddenly you know a major power with nothing to check them um if the Arai you
53:58
know win I mean again I'll mention Scarlet Crusade it's not always great
54:03
when a bunch of paladins gain like ascendancy mhm the first thing they do is find everybody they don't think you
54:10
know those people aren't right well let's we'll we'll get rid of them so yeah I I I definitely could it could be
54:16
either way i think it might be more interesting if it's not the uh the Nathan though it just they can't be
54:23
behind everything yeah yeah after a while you'll you know you'll stop believing in anything and we we honestly
54:29
I think taking a break from them makes the most amount of sense right now too especially we're done dealing with the Legion we're done dealing with the
54:35
Shadowlands for now we've dealt with all of that to a certain extent now I'm not saying that they're gone forever because
54:42
there's definitely something going on with the whole disappearance of the sword with uh Denathrius's essences
54:48
trapped inside of it which is a loose end that we have not dealt with or talked about or done anything with yet
54:53
which I'm absolutely confident will be something that gets pulled up later uh after we're done dealing with Caresh and
54:59
the Void and all of that stuff and getting them in line uh but right now we
55:04
don't need to deal with them we don't the story is fine without them and one
55:10
thing I do like with modern storytelling in WoW
55:15
versus classic storytelling and I would say some of the retcons of the
55:20
storytelling is that as opposed to always going to the same boogeyman
55:27
your you your threats can be grounded in reality and don't necessarily have to have some spooky guy behind the scenes
55:35
with like puppet strings uh moving and manipulating ating everything in the cosmos and every interaction that's
55:42
happening that gets old after a while and sometimes conflict is just fine
55:47
being a naturalb born conflict in the case of like the Arai and all the folks
55:53
from Ankah uh it's a natural rivalry right the the
55:59
anahhat folks are voidorn they may have their own culture and their own society
56:05
and they have for a very long time uh but they're essentially beings of
56:11
darkness uh and then you have the Arathi who are from a very militant empire
56:16
which I believe everything in game has led us to believe that are very much the light must scour all the dark places
56:23
right they have that level of fanaticism reminiscent of some of the Scarlet Crusade almost
56:30
um you don't need to have something orchestrating a bigger headbutt between
56:36
the two of them than already exists just by the nature of their essence and being and I think that the story has moved
56:43
away from having master plots and people moving pieces on a chessboard all of the
56:48
time which I'm thankful for and leans more into the no they just hate each
56:53
other because uh one is blue and one is red or you know they haven't talked or
57:00
they haven't figured stuff out like even with the Arafi and the
57:07
uh they're not friends you are actually facilitating trade between them when you
57:12
go and do your questing you are the one that's bringing them together and saying you should trade and then you're also
57:19
bringing in the Horde and the Alliance to trade with the Arathi because the Arathi have been cut off for so long
57:25
that they need resources they need outside trade but they're not friends
57:30
they're trade partners which are it's a completely different set of circumstances and even then like the
57:38
whole part of the conversation is the Iraqi don't trust the other folks not yet and the other folks don't trust the
57:43
Iraqi they're complete unknown and that tension is fine go ahead yeah like a in
57:48
a lot of cases um the Iraqi get help because it's better to arm the Iraqi
57:54
while they're fighting the Narubians than let the Nubians beat them and then have to fight the Narubians mhm um
58:02
either the Iraqi will be able to hold the Narubians off and then we don't have to deal with them or we've armed the the
58:09
Iraqi so it'll be harder for the Nubians and thus they'll be more softened up
58:15
when it's over this isn't a this isn't a out of the goodness of my heart situation it's the enemy of my enemy you
58:22
know will keep my enemy busy you know it's it's it's just
58:28
interest it's not you know we are we're buddies because of the light it's you
58:34
know you guys need food and weapons to hold these guys off we want them held
58:40
off so here's food and weapons you know and in return you give
58:45
us stuff and we now have made a profit off this whole deal um so yeah that I
58:51
think Joe's pretty spot on on that yeah and we can talk more about it but I think we can call it there hopefully
58:58
that answers your question um again we we are definitely folks that look for links between things that maybe don't
59:04
necessarily have them uh but this is one that I think we're okay letting the the sleeping dogs lie a little bit longer uh
59:11
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59:33
bit low on them as of late uh which generally is uh you know a bad thing uh
59:39
so send those into podcastbas.com specify the show that it is for as well as any special
59:45
pronunciation for your name if you want to hit us up on Discord you can hit us up on uh the Q and podcast questions
59:52
channel same rules apply if you're a Patreon subscriber you can hit us up in the patron Q and podcast questions
59:58
channel we tend to look there first as a way of saying thank you please go ahead and you know send those in as well uh
1:00:04
and you can also send us messages directly through Patreon and if you have
1:00:09
again themed show ideas send them to us if you have a
1:00:16
topic or a property that's not necessarily Blizzard related that you want us to cover let us know matt and I
1:00:23
again we've it's been a while since we've done an off-topic show and I would love to do one again just for the sake
1:00:29
of of you know getting the creative juices flowing again a little bit so if there's something you're passionate about and you want to know more about it
1:00:35
could be Marvel comics could be books it could be you know literally any number
1:00:41
of things uh heck if you want me to explain the lore of Magic the Gathering
1:00:47
I'm happy to dig deep into that well for you too but just let us know let us know what things you're interested in oh no
1:00:52
don't make him do that oh oh it would be horrible please don't throw Joe into the
1:00:58
Magic the Gathering bag uh but yeah please send those in folks
1:01:03
and again thank you for all your continued support uh we can't make this show without you uh and if you can't
1:01:08
support us on Patreon again just a reminder sharing our content with your friends does help quite considerably
1:01:15
leaving comments or likes on our content whether it's on YouTube or Acast or uh
1:01:20
Spotify or any of the places where you get your podcast from all of that does help us generate uh the continued
1:01:27
existence of this podcast so I do want to thank you very much for that folks we'll see you next week
1:01:34
[Music]
#Comics & Animation
#Comics
#Comic Books