Up next in 10
This week's Lore Watch Podcast is Q&A style, so the topics veer all over the place -- more so than usual. We start off with a question about the Emerald Dream and whether it was designed as a prison -- timely, given Hearthstone's latest expansion releasing yesterday. Speaking of Hearthstone, the next question concerns in-game board games, and what kind of play happens on Azeroth. Then, they follow it up with a question about the Botani and other NPCs potentially coming to Azeroth from different planes and timelines. Seems like a good way to get new games, but then I usually just look through Steam.
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[Music]
0:11
hello and welcome to Lore Watch a round table free form discussion about lore and your favorite media i'm your host
0:16
Joe Pres one of several lore focused folks from Blizzard Watch and I've got my marvelous co-host with me today Matt
0:22
Rossy how you doing today Matt i'm still not going to fight the thing man that's that's crazy you You've yet somebody
0:27
else yeah before uh before we started recording Matt and I had a a brief discussion about the new Ultimates
0:33
universe in the Marvel comics uh I don't care if he's a Crystis or not i'm not fighting him exactly uh and this I will
0:39
fight Ben Grim just no powers Ben Grim the dude killed Nazis at least in one
0:44
timeline he did uh and for those of you that are potentially interested in stuff like that I was just thinking to myself
0:50
it's been a while since we've done an elseworlds or off-topic uh show so if
0:56
there's something you'd like to be interested in or it's talking about whether it's comics or movies or
1:01
upcoming movies since Fantastic 4 does have an upcoming movie coming out and maybe you want to know a little bit more
1:06
about them and their history and whether it's the main universe or the Mar the Marvel Ultimate Universe drop us a line
1:13
let us know if that's something you'd be interested in maybe Matt and I will spend an hour and probably more talking about comic books because believe it or
1:18
not I do actually really like the Fantastic 4 not as much as Spider-Man but it's up there fantastic 4 has got a
1:24
good thing though they do it's good concept uh it's it's kind of amazing to me that so many writers seem to have a
1:29
hard time with it it's like this shouldn't be this complicated guys no and and again there's so much we could
1:35
talk about especially like some of my favorite uh my favorite series and favorite moments and weird moments in
1:41
there uh but we don't have time for that instead we're going to be answering today your questions from our wonderful
1:46
listeners out there in in radio land uh if you have questions for this or any of our podcasts be sure to send those in at
1:53
podcastblizzardwatch.com specify the show that it is for as well as well as any special pronunciation of your name
1:59
if you have one you can also hit us up on Discord we have the Q and podcast question channel set aside for all of
2:05
our wonderful members that just listeners people that can just you know you can just submit your questions there go for it same rules apply if you help
2:12
support us on Patreon we do like to give you a little extra bonus as a way of saying thank you you can hit us up in
2:18
the Patreon Q and podcast questions channel where we tend to look there first for questions for any of our shows
2:23
and you can also send your messages directly in and questions directly in to us via Patreon where Liz will ensure
2:31
that we get them as a matter of fact there was one I think I may have forgotten to put into the email today but if we get to it I will wind up
2:37
reading it out because it was a good question and it's something that you know we should always cover when you send us stuff all right friends without
2:43
further ado let's start with one from Metal Zani i had a thought while listening to the latest episode uh so I
2:49
thought what if the Emerald Dream was originally a prison plane like the elemental one to trap and hold wild
2:55
gods/loa because they were not ordered enough for Amanthul so when ANR discovered this with the help of uh
3:01
Freya and her uh comic bestie lover/lover Aloon they find a loophole
3:07
by sending them to Ardwell to be reborn with Aloon's sister then get sent back to the Emerald Dream i find it hard to
3:14
believe Alman Thu would be cool with a realm of wild nature touching his uh precious ordered Azeroth and most of
3:20
what we know about the past is what the Titans want us to know from the sounds of that last expansion in the trilogy
3:25
we're going to find out that maybe the Titans might not be as great as mortal races think so it would make sense to
3:31
find out maybe they were just they just view us as a secondary to the main goal of waking up Azeroth uh I'm going to let
3:37
Matt say what he's going to say here but yeah that's part of it is I mean I think we were always secondary i don't think
3:42
they really truly care about us but that's a whole other thing but Oh I I don't think it's disputable that they
3:48
don't care about us i think we are consequences we're not the goal mhm um
3:54
the the the world that they want to preserve and allow to come to fruition
4:00
creates living things as part of its process um and in fact we are cast off
4:06
from their creation the Titans made the Titan Forged titan Forge made more smaller tighter Titan Forge and
4:13
eventually whether it's on purpose and we've we've talked about whether or not the uh curse of flesh is on purpose or not um or it's something imposed or what
4:21
have you we're just we're like I don't want to say dandruff but I can't come up with a better word for like what we are
4:28
in the in the eyes of the Titan we're not the goal we are just there um that
4:34
being said I mean anything you just said here could be the case i I don't People
4:39
often think I just dismiss people's uh ideas just because I'm c I'm crotchety so I want to make sure I say this this
4:46
could absolutely be the case um I don't know if it is that's why I'm always I'm
4:52
always careful on these kind of things because I don't want to make you feel bad if later on it turns out that the
4:57
writers don't go this way because it's nothing to do with your idea and your idea being good it's just that they
5:03
they've already set up whatever it's going to be you know and and they haven't shared it yet so up until the
5:08
moment where you know we we do get them to share it with us all we're working on is speculation based on stuff they have
5:16
shared and in that vein this is nice speculation it's a good it's a good job
5:21
of putting together a lot of things that have been established mhm is it going to be what they do i have no idea i think
5:29
we're going to still find out the Emerald Dream is a little different than we've been led to think it is yeah one
5:35
of the things I Go ahead Joe no no i was going to say I agree with you i think that I think that the Emerald Dream is
5:40
going to be much more complicated and we've already seen some shades of that like when the Emerald Dream was first
5:46
told to us we were told it was a backup copy uh of Azeroth that you know if everything went sideways this is what
5:53
Azeroth would revert to then we find out that that's not actually the case they have a whole reorigination beam for that
5:58
and it's not tied to the Emerald Dream at all uh the Titan facilities don't tap into the Emerald Dream uh as a matter of
6:04
fact like I don't believe we have any Titan facilities that really tap into it that we know of uh or that have any sort
6:11
of pull from it everything from the Titans has been completely separated from it and then to look at it and say
6:17
that it's a backup copy of Azeroth cool how so I think we've already seen that it's really not that then Ardan Weld
6:25
threw a lot of that into like you pointed out here a lot of that into question right why is Iron Weld and the
6:33
Emerald Dream so tightly connected why is that a mechanism that's in place when
6:38
it doesn't seem to be a place in any of the other areas and why does it only seem to happen there or one of the
6:45
things that Matt brought one last thing real quick you brought this up a while ago Matt and it's something that lives rent free in my brain what if the
6:51
Emerald Dream is not something specific to Azeroth but something that exists on other planets and other areas as well
6:58
like there's so much more that it could be and I'm going to let Matt talk now because again it's that lives run free
7:03
in my brain well I was just thinking as you were talking um the first thing that thought of is that we use the world the
7:10
term Emerald Dream to describe something and we don't know if it's if the Emerald
7:15
Dream is one subsection of a bigger thing the way Ardan wield is one subsection of the Shadowlands
7:21
or if the Emerald Dream is the parallel to the Shadowlands and there's a specific part of it that is the part
7:27
that is Ardan Weld's twin and if that's the case um we know that
7:34
Aloon is involved in the Emerald Dream we don't know how but we know that she is we know that the druids that tap into
7:42
the Emerald Dream can tap into Aloon's power like she is not the originator of
7:47
it but she is related to it in some way i find myself thinking about this a lot when it comes to how Aloon and Aeon are
7:54
related to each other we know that Aloon has other night warriors on other worlds
8:00
we We know that there are other worshippers of Aloon in other planets yeah we've met one uh we've also been to
8:07
a world literally named Aundress and it was the world that Aonar was hiding out on so I keep wondering to myself the
8:15
Emerald Dream could be as the Shadowlands are and it could be as other
8:21
you know like the Twisting Nether touches all parts touches multiple realities and touches multiple worlds
8:28
and it's not the Great Dark Beyond they're different things the Great Dark Beyond seems to be physical it's not
8:34
another realm of existence it's a physical thing in this realm of existence it's literally like space so
8:41
if there are like if these things exist in the way that they exist that the way that we've seen the Shadowlands the way
8:47
that we've seen with the Twisting Nether um we've gotten hints about the light realm whatever the heck it is we've
8:53
never been there but we have been to the Shadowlands and we have been to the Twisting Nether it's quite possibly
8:59
Emerald Dream is similarly vast and it could be the life realm right i mean
9:05
we've got a death realm the Emerald Dream could be the life realm and just because the Titans built something in
9:12
there doesn't mean that that's the whole thing yeah there there's definitely an element of that and I think I think you
9:18
might be on to something there as well and maybe what we call the Emerald Dream is actually the life realm because we
9:24
know that there is a realm of death we know that there's a realm of life there there has to be there's a the way that
9:30
the cosmos is set up and at least the way that the first ones have described it uh the various cosmologies the
9:35
grimoirs and everything else again taken with a grain of salt unreliable narrators and all that jazz but you
9:42
there should be a realm of life or something that is like unfettered chaos almost and that's what life is so yeah
9:49
but we we could also have like I feels like each of these realms is actually a combination of other realms yes because
9:55
we've got the twisting nether which is definitely chaotic but it's chaotic destruction mhm and death seems like
10:02
order destruction mhm and the you know the realm that the Titans seem to have come from feels like it's life and order
10:09
combined but mostly order and it feels like the Emerald Dream could be you know
10:14
life and light you know but mostly life i mean there's there's who knows i don't know we know that we've seen the Aory go
10:21
in different ways but I keep thinking about that idea that there could be infinite realms inside the Emerald Dream
10:27
yeah and one of them is like some Titan outpost where they where they have a backup of Azeroth maybe they did do that
10:34
maybe there is a backup copy of Azeroth but maybe that's not Maybe when we say that the backup copy of Azeroth it isn't
10:40
like they formatted a hard drive it's just that all the memories of life on Azeroth echo there you know what I mean
10:48
yeah I can see it's not as it's not as easy as okay we're going to originate the planet now we'll just pull from the
10:54
backup but it's more like there's there's a rem a memory remnant of the
10:59
place over here and and you gota feel like there's got to be some kind of consequence to the to the uh the
11:05
shattering right the thundering which one is it the the thundering i can't remember which one it is thundering there has to be some kind of consequence
11:11
to like the the biggest content in the world disintegrating and all those people getting drowned and all this
11:16
stuff happening so but the deal with Aonar and Freya and all of that stuff um
11:23
Freya is a is a unit made by A&R in much the same way that Amanthul made Odin and
11:31
Master Ra um I don't remember who made Tier he might be from Agramar but I'm not 100% on that but point being Freya
11:38
might have been the the means by which ANR could study it because it's not like ANR can just jam herself into Azeroth
11:45
and take a really close look at the way she's organized too too big and too cosmic for that so it could have been
11:51
Freya who did that we do know that Freya viewed the Emerald Dream as something more because we see her when you go to
11:58
to uh Ulawir freya's realm is like a little pocket of the Emerald Dream mhm
12:04
and she deliberately people talk a lot about how she shaped it like maybe the
12:09
thing she shaped was the the basic when you're going to explore a new reality or
12:14
a new anything you need a a a base station right you need a place to start
12:20
from yeah you need like Yeah and so that might be what the Titan stuff that
12:25
relates to the Emerald Dream is because we know that they that Freya had had Emerald Dream related stuff in her like
12:31
I don't know what you call it her quarters in in Alderman and we know that the temple of life that she had was
12:37
another such thing maybe that's the deal with the Titans trying to understand
12:43
something that they didn't understand because we saw them do that with the old gods too right like that's old dear yeah
12:49
yeah yeah so that's just that's just what I'm like I'm bouncing off of is the idea that the Titans do seem to have a
12:57
very slight presence but there's no Titan facility that's like a big blooming life thing there's like the
13:02
most we get is like there's a quarter of there's a little bit of weird mutant
13:07
stuff in Old Dear and that's basically it and maybe that's because of of Athl
13:13
maybe that's because Amadul was not comfortable with life you know life kind of seems to confuse Amanul he doesn't
13:20
really like it because it does it does all sorts of weird stuff it keeps you know it keeps making him get the ick for
13:27
lack of a better word so I don't know i do think that this is got there's a lot of possibility here to think about at least um and I do think it's interesting
13:34
to wonder why does there exist a reincarnation platform like why why does
13:40
Ardan wield and the Emerald Dream have this pipeline so one of one of the things that I that I find it fascinating
13:46
about this and this is something that I I I was thinking about with Zani's question is yes this could have been a
13:53
prison realm but I'm wondering if it was something a little bit different and part of it is when Matt was talking
14:00
something popped into my head that was the whole what we've learned this
14:05
expansion and and what we've learned recently of essentially ANR went to
14:12
Almond Thul and said "Look at this really cool nature stuff." And Almond Thul went "Yeah no dog that ain't that I
14:18
don't like that that ain't that ain't a thing I really am down with we can't have that." And I'm wondering if the Emerald Dream as we know it wasn't
14:25
necessarily a prison but almost unfettered rebirth onto the world the
14:31
true joy and expression of what Azeroth was dreaming something that was like
14:36
this this portion of life that was just wild and untamed and unchecked and one
14:43
of the things that the Titans did when they ordered the planet was push all of that stuff into check and I'm wondering
14:50
if they didn't necessarily create a prison realm but shut the door or tried
14:56
to shut the door so that there was more structure more order more whatever the
15:03
case was uh so that they could advance their plan and then ANR and Freya in
15:09
their reshaping of it or in their charge of it and maybe with the help of Aloon
15:14
sort of didn't exactly follow orders right like you make a point here that
15:20
the the wild gods seem like something that Amanthul would not be down with and I tend to agree they're very powerful
15:27
entities uh they're they're very specifically tied to Azeroth they have
15:33
an incredible amount of power they fought the Legion right they saved Azeroth how many times with the help of
15:40
others but how many times do the wild gods intervene and and help and and you
15:45
know do amazing feats right i don't think that was part of Alan Thul's plan but that may have been a part of Aloon
15:52
and and Anar's plan where it's we're not going to close the door we're going to leave it open a crack and as a little
16:00
extra bonus here's this tunnel that goes from this particular realm to Ardan well
16:06
and maybe that was always part of the plan maybe Aloon already always knew about that but maybe that was a
16:15
deliberate choice by Aloon to show ANR and Freya hey here's my sister she
16:22
handles this portion of death and rebirth i think this might be beneficial to keep your planet that you very
16:29
clearly love intact and thus the Emerald Dream the portion that we have
16:34
interacted with became a reset place for re being reborn into Azeroth being born
16:42
through that unfettered life through that chaos and it's still tempered it's not as chaotic as it was but I also come
16:49
back to the point like the nightmare I don't think could have taken hold if it wasn't a place of pure potential right
16:55
if it wasn't a powerful place of just absolute beautiful natural chaos because
17:02
what is the void the void is all possibility what is pure life all possibility there is a there is a a
17:08
thread between those two that I think is inextricably there that wouldn't have been there otherwise so again I don't
17:16
maybe think that it was a prison to keep the the uh wild gods away although it very well could have been and I do like
17:22
that idea but I think it may have been a door that they tried to shut to keep that chaos under wraps and to keep it
17:29
from destroying or doing anything to their plans does that make sense i mean there's certainly a possibility there i
17:35
don't know you know the problem is always you know who knows what's going to come out of but yeah there certainly could be i I find myself wondering too
17:43
if like maybe it's not even like maybe if the part of the Emerald Dream is was used by a prison um by the Titans but
17:51
again that's just them building part of it in like we know that there was the the elemental planes were created as a
17:58
prison plane by the Titans but we also know that the elements exist in other
18:03
parts of existence you know what I mean like there's plenty of worlds where the elements don't have a prison plane yeah
18:09
do does that mean there's an elemental plane that doesn't have a prison built into it yeah and it makes it makes me
18:16
wonder though no no like on that on the same front it makes me wonder though like if those planes existed the prison
18:21
the the air quote the prison planes of Azeroth existed as planes and were just
18:26
like bubbles carved out of them yeah or put something put into them yeah either
18:31
way like I mean we know that that um Hela Helia sorry can create pocket
18:39
realms that that she did that alongside uh Master Ra that doesn't mean that
18:45
they're they're building the pocket realm out of nothing in nowhere they could have just be you know there's an
18:50
elemental plane of earth for lack of a better word but the part of it that touches Azeroth is reinforced to keep
18:58
them out of Azeroth mhm you know and that's the prison that they built but they didn't build the entire plane of
19:04
existence because we know for sure they didn't build the twisting nether they just built one prison world in it called
19:11
Mardun mhm you know and that's we could be looking at that situation with the
19:17
Emerald Dream where there is a the dream around Azeroth might have some kind of prison-like qualities or there might be
19:23
a prison in it for the most uncomfortably wild things that that Amen
19:28
just could not handle uh but that doesn't mean that the whole Emerald Dream is that and so that's that's
19:35
another thing to think about when we talk about all this like I think you have a good point about the concept of
19:40
maybe um Aonar and Freya decided to leave the door open a crack or maybe
19:46
they pushed it open because we don't know who was like Amathul basically did
19:52
his oopsie with Yraj and then kind of left it to everybody else to clean it
19:58
up and it's quite possible Freya you know in contact with Aonar or not might
20:03
have been like like they just left chunks of old God all over the planet i got I gotta I need help cleaning this up
20:11
and she punched a hole in in their prison if it was a prison so there's all sorts of possibilities on this i do like
20:18
the idea of this this there being like this subcurrent of rebellion in the Titans uh in much the same way that it
20:24
makes them it makes them less I don't know how to put this I feel like the Titans have have been set up as
20:31
these like all knowing all powerful god beings and I think that's not necessarily what we were intended to
20:37
take from them yeah I think it Go ahead i was gonna say it reminds me a lot of like real day like real world religion
20:44
right like you look at pantheons of the various different uh cultures throughout
20:49
history and some of them are more human than others like I'm I'm looking at the
20:54
Norse mythology in general right like they were human they made mistakes they
21:00
were they walked along mortals a lot of their their story were very like mortalbased and that makes sense for who
21:06
the people who were were you know propagating those myths and that mythology and then you know the
21:12
Egyptians they were not right like they were a little bit more removed they were a little more ethereal they were still
21:19
present but like you can't tell me that like uh Bast and and the rest were just
21:25
like kind of chilling in the you know the middle of everybody's living room whereas it was not uncommon to see like
21:31
Odin in disguise even just chilling in like a bar with like random folks or Thor or whatever the case was and Matt
21:38
and I were talking about like uh other Slavic myths like uh Pyun and a bunch of others they're a lot more humanbased
21:45
than some of the other cultures and it almost feels like that undercurrent of rebellion that we're learning about
21:52
makes the Titans more relatable more human and I think that's kind of important it sounds weird to say that
21:58
these vast cosmic beings are human but I think it puts them in a different light
22:04
and to what Matt said I'll shut up and let him finish the thought here we we have for a long time thought of them as
22:11
these all knowing allseeing all powerful beings and then learning that they're
22:16
just as messed up as we are have the same conflicts that we do in some capacity makes it take on a completely
22:23
different meaning it also makes them way less scary if that makes sense well
22:28
here's the thing it makes them less scary in one way but it makes them more scary in a different way because we miss
22:35
we make serious mistakes and if the great giant cosmic woogly woogly guys
22:41
can make mistakes like that whoops you know I I think a lot about the Titans especially after um Shadowlands and the
22:49
uh you know the the Pantheon of Death for lack of another word to call them the Pantheon of Death they were like
22:56
these constructs that kept like the mantle could be passed on or even placed
23:01
on something else and I found myself wondering like are they on that same path because it feels an awful lot like
23:08
Kystria and the Winter Queen aren't just some mantle anymore they seem like
23:14
personified beings like if a new winter queen was necessary that winter queen
23:19
wouldn't be anything like the one we currently have like do you you get where I'm going with that like that they they
23:25
feel like they've transcended if the Titans are doing the same kind of thing if they're going from I am a cosmic
23:30
force of ordering the universe to I am a crotchety old beard man who gets mad at
23:36
people if they want if they try and complicate this but ultimately means well or I am this this force of of life
23:44
and preservation of life too i I have a girlfriend now um does anyone know how
23:49
to love or no i'm already doing it oh okay well that's good right do you know
23:55
it feels like to a certain degree the Titans are ins snared in the first one's design mhm and by ins snared I don't
24:03
mean they're trapped so much as I mean they're changing too all of this stuff changes not just the the creation but
24:11
the the things that are helping make the creation exist it changes them right
24:16
back and then they change it more and then it changes them more and and to me
24:24
that's fascinating because it means that that we are simultaneously like like I
24:29
said before dandruff but we're also a completely new thing that that alters
24:34
the world back as we're going through it we come up with new magic that nobody had ever thought of we can beat a
24:40
constellar and you know that's not possible but we did it we killed a titan there's a whole
24:48
bit when we killed uh Oh bloody heck um Argus last thank you Argus yeah we
24:53
killed Argus' uh Titan form and it says you're holding this thing in your hand that shouldn't be possible and we are
25:01
not just here we're an active force of change and that change changes up and
25:07
those changes going up eventually come back down and change you know and that's to me the engine that drives this whole
25:14
thing is that change it's that way that you've talked before about this Joe the
25:19
way that the like Azeroth seems to like let all the forces play there at once and that's what got me thinking about
25:25
the fact that each of the cosmic planes seems to be a couple of different forces playing together and if it's like is
25:31
that mean Azeroth is essentially like this cog wheel where all the teeth of
25:36
all the different other things come and engage right there and as it turns it turns all of them and so it is
25:44
inherently invested with all of them like I I don't know it's just to me the fact that the Titans could be changing I
25:51
think is a really fascinating idea and it shows them both being pretty damn
25:56
scary but also being pretty damn approachable like we've spoken to them
26:01
mhm and they they talked to us they weren't talking at us they were talking
26:07
to us and that's not something I think they would have done eons ago in a way it's possible that Sargeras and what
26:14
happened to him was supposed to happen to him that it was in intended that he
26:19
would go the way he did and do the things he did because the Titans needed to evolve in order for them to evolve
26:25
they had to go through multiple things that they ordinarily wouldn't and one of those might have been death yeah and
26:31
because that's that's the we've been told that Titans don't die and that what we did was an abnormality but we haven't
26:39
really talked about or considered what would happen when the Titans died
26:45
because again and this is just going back to stuff that we and I'm going to air quote the word know here because a
26:51
lot of this is being called into question we were told that they were fixing the final Titan because they're
26:57
looking to fight this oncoming uh great evil that's that's coming to consume our
27:02
universe or destroy our universe well something's coming to destroy the universe the Titans are part of the universe that means that they can be
27:08
destroyed too which means there had to have been a mechanism and then we find out later uh while we're you know
27:14
basically hunting down Sargeras and the Legion and and doing all that that Sargeras was able to kill them in line
27:22
with the stories that we heard um but that their souls didn't transfer or
27:28
whatever made them their energy their their cosmic essence didn't transition
27:33
it wasn't sent anywhere instead he grabbed it well the question is what
27:38
would have happened if he didn't grab it if they're not intended to go to the Shadowlands and they're just kind of
27:44
like left to their own devices what would actually happen and do the Titans even know what would happen would they
27:50
just become another like would they form another crystallis around them and and be born into another planet sized entity
27:57
would they be cracked again is it is it an endless cycle of rebirth for them we have no idea because I don't think they
28:04
knew either the first time that they died was likely when Sargeras killed them when that that whole battle
28:10
happened when they shoved aspects of themselves into their watchers which
28:15
again they didn't they didn't plan for that i'm sure it was a lastm minute thing from Amanthul to slam bits of
28:23
their essence to sort of preserve their keepers which smacks to me of desperation which means that they have
28:29
no bloody idea what happens when they die so I think Matt might be right that everything that happened may have needed
28:35
to happen and it may have been part of the grand design that we don't know about right yeah and for that matter for
28:41
us design has a finality to it that might not be the case for how the first
28:47
ones designed things like they may be like this may all be just constant random propagation mhm mhm you know and
28:55
so there's a lot of possibilities here well I mean one one of the things that I'm thinking about now that you're mentioning this what caused Sarah Garas
29:01
to go down the path he went down he was shown a world completely consumed by void who was there who showed him that
29:09
world denathrism and where are they from denathrius is little hideout in the Shadowlands and I'm still not convinced
29:16
that Denathrius wasn't playing some weird Xantos gambit of some type i honestly find myself wondering if
29:22
Denathrius was working on you know he we know he was working with the jailer for some time back before he was even the
29:28
jailer mhm it's quite possible that the two of them are not necessarily aware of
29:35
what they're doing mhm as they become less and less of a you know just a blank
29:43
name force and more of an actual being denathrius couldn't have like from the moment they made a Denathrius construct
29:50
he couldn't have been the snark monster that he was when we met him you know what I mean like that's a personality
29:57
that's a big personality no no construct starts off with a personality that big
30:03
that's something you grow into agreed and I mean it's also possible that like before then I mean again and like to
30:09
your point here some of the actions he's taken or may have taken or may have commanded his creations to take may have
30:17
been predetermined they may have been stuff that the first ones put into uh into motion for all we know it could
30:24
have been part of the first one's design to have Sargeras fall to have him turn
30:29
to the dark side as it were and I'm air quoting that a little bit uh because it would force it would force the Titans to
30:37
evolve they would have no choice it's not like Denathrius and the Jailer or
30:43
Zova whatever you want to call them they can't undy they can't go forth into the
30:48
realm of the living and experience living but they can help somebody else
30:53
do the opposite yeah and they can push they can influence they can they can manifest things into the living realm
31:00
potentially maybe because of that back door that was created or maybe because it was that's the whole point of the
31:05
first ones but yeah there's there's a lot here and I think I think for me the largest takeaway and this is the thing
31:11
that I wouldn't be surprised if we come to find out when we get to the final portion of this trilogy is the Titans
31:20
may not have been bad guys they may just be idiots right like they I mean Yeah
31:25
that's that's fair or not even necessarily idiots so much as you don't get mad at your toaster for not knowing
31:31
how to do calculus yeah yeah toaster yeah and and like even then even with
31:36
them involving it even with them not telling us things and and whatever the case is we don't know that that's not
31:42
what their primary programming was we don't know that that was their directive we don't know any of that stuff because
31:47
again first ones aren't here to tell us and we didn't find the playbook right nope absolutely not and we didn't find
31:53
the instruction manual we found bits and pieces of stuff that we're trying to wrap our mortal brains around and make
31:59
sense of and very clearly they're in a they're in a different league than we are as far as mental capacity and
32:05
planning like I fully expected us to find like the the when they said suppleore the first ones I I immediately
32:11
thought we were going to find some ocuary or or something with like you know these gigantic cosmic bones or
32:18
these primordial bits of of creation or being or essence not a workshop right
32:24
like it's they are so leaps and and and bounds ahead of us in this regard it's
32:30
unfathomable to know what they set into motion yet and I and again Go ahead and that basically leads us to the idea of
32:37
what the Emerald Dream is actually for because the Shadowlands are clearly there for a kind of cosmic reset on like
32:45
the stuff that it that is being used to do the lives that it fuels end up in the
32:50
Shadowlands and then because of Arden wield go back to the Emerald Dream it seem right mhm mhm mhm and if the
32:58
Emerald Dream is therefore circulating back into this the the physical world
33:05
from that point it's essentially like an engine that that creates change and
33:12
change seems to be the thing that we're all looking for here in terms of what's being created is a constantly evolving
33:19
creation mhm and if that's the case what the Titans are for and what their
33:24
relationship to dream would ultimately be a lot messier than Amanthul would be
33:31
comfortable with because he would need it whether or not he wants to admit it and that's that's something I like to
33:37
think about here because it it feels like the Emerald Dream is a really good example of that fractal nature of
33:43
reality in the Warcraft setting i mean look at the Shadowlands like where there's constantly new places we didn't
33:48
we didn't go to anywhere near all the Shadowland we we didn't even get close
33:53
we mostly just went to the ones that are the biggest and most influential um we've and we've not even been inside the
33:59
Twisting Nether we've used it as a transport thing but we've never explored it like the only time we've been in
34:05
there is specifically Outland cuz it's floating in kind of like on the edges of
34:11
it so yeah there's a lot of possibility for in terms of like what this is all doing and what that that great evil
34:18
might even be like we've talked before about the devourers are the devourers like are they really entities that eat
34:24
or are they more like for lack of a better word like like kernel panic error
34:30
mhm like you know is this is a devourer realm a realm that just borked and and
34:35
you got to you know it it's not processing right and now it's just a big animous sink and these things coming out
34:41
and eating things are just the manifestation of that in in a way that the entirety of this this whole setup
34:47
seems to create beings these the devourers are beings that in embody you
34:53
know like oops you know this you know error error message this is not good so
34:59
yeah I don't I don't know there's a lot of this to it but I definitely would We always talk about how I think the
35:05
devourers are the Langalers from Stephen King's book but like that's a whole other thing yeah i almost think that
35:11
they're kind of the opposite oh no no the Langalers themselves no yeah i think we're on board there cuz the Langalers
35:16
basically just rip everything down yeah they they there is no there is no the whole concept of there is no past there
35:21
is only the future time must inevitably march on and if you get find yourself getting stuck in the past you're just
35:28
going to die like because it has to be torn apart it has to be torn apart it like the the old cartoons where uh
35:35
they're riding on a train and one person is taking the tracks up from behind them and passing them to the forward and
35:40
putting the tracks down in front of the train and so you just constantly have a track going forward kind of thing but yeah that's a whole that that's a whole
35:46
other thing we we'll be here for another hour so yeah it's actually interesting story by the way it is uh 100% one of
35:52
the few Stephen King books that I actually or stories that I really enjoy uh but Zanie as always thank you for the
35:59
question it let us in some interesting directions truly appreciate it and hopefully that answers it or doesn't
36:05
answer it whatever your preference is next question comes from Scribblet uh who we've had a few from in the the the
36:13
past before in Holofall we learned from Faren about the board game Lights Gambit
36:19
what other games do we know about in the world of WoW and what do they tell us about the cultures they come from the
36:25
people that play them etc so and I Matt will probably have a better memory than I do for this the only ones that I know
36:33
of that they explicitly mention in game is there's a dice game played by Rogues
36:40
which is also now referenced in their toolkit um there is uh the uh
36:47
whatchamacallit man words are hard today folks uh Hearthstone is a game inside of
36:52
World of Warcraft mhm and Rumble is a game inside of World of Warcraft i don't
36:59
know if we've released I'm sure we have and I'm probably blanking on it are you blanking on the really big one from
37:04
Karazon chess well yeah we know chess exists yeah they play chess because they've got a dig chess board up there
37:11
and you have to get through it if you want to go fight the creatures on the roof so um I don't know of many other
37:18
referenced games there's there are references to um I cannot remember the name of like the most powerful druid in
37:24
the world and his like practically immortal girlfriend who is the high priestess of Aloon what is happening toronto Westerwind toronto Whisperwind
37:32
and uh Malfurion have been referenced to be playing a game but they didn't tell
37:37
us what the game was they just mentioned they were like doing that while talking um that's all I mean there's also like
37:44
ball games cuz we know that they play they have balls and they play games with them um that's reference we've seen
37:50
children's toys we've seen balls we know that they exist i can't think of any
37:55
particular game that they've actually said was played you know with them but I know that they they exist but other than
38:02
that I think you you know Hearthstone and Rumble rumble and and that's kind of interesting hearthstone feels like a
38:08
game that could have been around for a long time mhm like it's because it doesn't require a lot of stuff it's just
38:13
you need essentially a Hearthstone board and you need cards that's that's pretty much it and obviously there's some magic
38:19
involved because the cards do stuff that you couldn't just do without magic unless you were doing the game at a
38:25
computer the way we do um Rumble however feels like it's new like it it definitely feels like goblins may have
38:31
been involved in making it um for that matter maybe gnomes did too like maybe they you know some guy made a game and
38:37
what go ahead no I just remembered speaking of gnomes I just remembered mechanomes have battle bots that's true
38:42
they do it's literally I don't know i didn't think of that as a game but you're right you're absolutely right yeah i mean they create bots and have
38:48
them do war with each other i mean it's essentially a game i would imagine it's Rocket Sock and Robots yeah it's Rocket
38:54
Socks yeah slightly more deadly i And you know the fact that they have
39:01
dice and they have cards certainly implies that they have card games and
39:07
dice games aside from the ones we've heard of um dice for gambling is as old
39:12
as like the Romans uh for in our in our history so in their world it's it's very
39:18
it's very unlikely that they haven't been doing various games with dice throughout Azeroth's history and again
39:24
the fact that they even have cards implies that they have card games and we know that there are people playing card games because we hear about people
39:31
winning and losing in card games um what's his name fairwind flynn Fairwind
39:36
yeah uh talks about losing a ton of money you know so that's all the case but but in a lot of times they don't
39:42
bother to actually say what the games are which I think is a is a bit is a bit of a sadness i would agree i think that
39:48
that it's a little bit of world building that I think would be really cool um because again every culture generally
39:54
has some form of like game or hobby or pastime but it's I'm trying to think how
39:59
to phrase this they don't spend enough time on it and they I don't think they would need to spend a whole lot of time
40:05
on it to make it worthwhile little things like they just did with Holof
40:11
Fall with with uh the Arafi in learning about Lights Gambit i think that's
40:17
really important it didn't take a whole lot it was a couple quests and a little bit of storytelling right um you can do
40:24
that with a bunch of the other races you can do that with the Volun you can do that with the Sethrack because they very clearly have stuff uh the the Vulper
40:32
have what what you call it the uh the do plays and they do like stuff like that um why not spend a little bit more time
40:40
world building and fleshing those out just a little bit i think it'd be real cool one of the things that I I like
40:45
about Dungeons and Dragons so much and I'm sure other people do as well not to tie this into that but I mean I'm going
40:51
to cuz it's my show and I'm going to do what I want um things like three dragon ante and dragon chess and and stuff like
40:58
that are games that they actually took time to flesh out and make them into uh
41:04
real games like you can go and play these games and it was such a nice touch
41:11
that they did that because it made the world feel a lot more alive and then over the years we've seen a lot of
41:17
different depictions of this stuff in various books and modules that they've released over the years that add a
41:24
little more life to those various heritages and I really would love to see
41:30
WoW do that especially now the game's been around for so long you can't tell me that the Tuscar don't have like a
41:36
slap the fish game or something like that or like hide the fish in somebody's knapsack or or whatever like there's
41:42
going to be something that they do for fun slap the fish and hide the fish dude these are not names that you could call
41:48
your game why not you could i'm not saying you should you could yeah um slap the fish in particular just sounds wrong
41:56
um I think these definitely would have to need have names like you know um you know like you know sustenance far
42:03
sustenance you know sustenance gang or something i don't know the the Tuscar are fascinating people and I really
42:09
would like to see more I'd like to see more about like what are the relation between all the Tuscar in the world yeah
42:15
like are they all coming from like one single civilization and spreading out or are they at this point their own
42:22
individual peoples and they they don't necessarily have a lot in common or talk very much uh I do think we we could
42:29
definitely do more with the Tuscar than we have i'm not just saying this because I know Joe desperately wants to play one
42:34
i do think that there's room for more i was just going to say it'd be a real great uh great segue into making them a
42:40
playable race allied race just saying all right well I think we got
42:45
time for one more question here and this one comes from Smith Wesson uh who
42:51
happens to be a goblin hunter which with that name it could be nothing else uh in
42:57
Isisle of Dorne there's a quest to kill Mage Slayer Pythil or Pythil he looks
43:03
like a bat uh Botney from Warlords is he i remember in the quest to get the Maggar orcs you see some Batonis and
43:10
Sabons run off into the barrens during the end cinematic do we have any other evidence of either of them existing on
43:16
Azeroth in game uh this is the first I think we've really like actively seen uh
43:23
the the botany uh on Azeroth unless Was there another Was there another one well
43:28
yeah the first time we see the dungeon uh there's that dungeon where you go in i can't remember the name of it oh yeah
43:34
no it it's still there that that area does still overlook Stormwind yeah I completely forgot about that bunch of botany basically punched a hole through
43:41
and were uh they were literally in the woods outside Stormwind like like you could look down and see Stormwind it's
43:47
not it's very far from impossible for some of them to have like run off into the woods and just start talking to
43:54
Azeroth's like plant beings azeroth has plant beings already um the Botney could
44:00
very easily find allies maybe make some enemies certainly could start setting up some enclaves where they could reproduce
44:07
um I don't know if that means that they're already all over the place and certainly getting to the aisle of Dorne
44:15
would seem like a task on the other hand he could have been in Deran when it blew
44:20
up mhm like Deran loves to trap people the reason we even like the reason that
44:25
dungeon existed was that the the uh what is the name of the mages in in Why am I not remembering this my god the Ktor
44:33
thank you the KTOR had a magic prison and they love to put all sorts of weird stuff in the magic prison like all the
44:40
time like yeah we have an undead dragon over here why well you know we it was we
44:45
caught it so we figured we put it in here couldn't you just have destroyed it utterly i can't study it if it's been
44:50
destroyed utterly so it's quite possible that they stuck a botany mage killer and you know he might very well be mage
44:56
slayer you know fithily there because he goes mad that they locked him up you
45:02
know you might have started killing mages out of like you know you put me in a prison uh you know I don't know but it
45:08
certainly isn't beyond possibility for there to be botney on Azeroth yeah we got all sorts of other stuff on Azeroth
45:13
from from uh Dranor why not yeah I suspect we're going to see more of them especially as we find places that uh
45:20
maybe we didn't know existed and come stumble upon them later on uh for that
45:25
matter couldn't they have come through during the first war i mean that portal led back to Dranor which as we know is
45:32
where the Botney were from so we could have actually had Botney on Azeroth this whole time and didn't know about it yeah we could have we could have had them
45:38
here the entire time because one of the things that this made me think of this question in particular is another wild
45:44
tangent that Matt will I think will appreciate where I'm going with this the botany have always reminded me of
45:50
Warhammer 40k orcs they're Yeah they they do actually yeah now once you know the secret of 40k or absolutely Yeah and
45:58
so the secret is 40k orcs are fungus they are uh essentially bio-engineered
46:03
entities that are completely asexual and essentially replicate by releasing
46:09
spores wherever they are and then new fungus grows and becomes orcs or anything in the orc genealogy the botney
46:16
are a lot in the same way to me when I look at it and I look at the world and I look back and look at Drraanor and look
46:22
at what what happened in that dungeon in particular if they're just plants plants
46:28
reproducing by releasing spores or you know something that's been fully
46:34
polliniz uh I can't remember the word for it pollinated pollinated thank you wow yeah
46:39
something has been fully pollinated into the winds is not unheard of and so it is
46:45
entirely possible that in any of the excursions from Drraanor here that some of those spores may have landed and
46:52
because we are pretty rich in spirit even with Azeroth consuming a bunch of it that's just a thing that happens here
46:59
plus we're sort of this nexus point of all these other energies we don't know if they can feed on things that aren't
47:04
spirit maybe they could be you know feed on fell or light or whatever the case is
47:10
and grow into different versions of the botany we know that they can handle arcane there's a whole thing where we
47:16
deal with a whole bunch of mages um there's that one encounter uh when we're going through the gardens in um the the
47:23
nightborn city it's a bot age and like he's saying that oh it's it was an elf
47:29
that transmuted itself it doesn't matter he got infected he became he essentially
47:34
became a botany like we've we've seen sort of that resilience so it's entirely possible that they exist other places in
47:41
the world and we have no bloody idea about it living plants sentient plants is not an abnormal thing on Azeroth and
47:48
yes they could have come over during that time frame they could have come over with the magaw orc stuff they could have come over during the actual battle
47:54
when we were on Warlords of Drraanor and going through the dungeon uh which I cannot remember the name of for the life
48:01
of me even though we just had it as a mythic key mhm yeah um they could have
48:06
also just been here like Matt said for years and years and years the Sabbron are also in that same category because
48:13
the Sabon to me are not necessarily an exclusive evolution if that makes sense
48:20
no I mean for one thing we've got cat beings on Azeroth they're just four-legged instead of you know there
48:26
there's that right off the bat um Sabon yeah the whole Vir um there's also a
48:33
simple possibility that we've had Sabberon on Azeroth for a while because
48:38
a big portal to original Drraanor was opened at one point and a bunch of stuff
48:44
came through it mhm uh it didn't all have to be like just the Horde the Horde
48:49
left that thing open until it was closed like it wasn't It was open and the armies of Azeroth showed up to close it
48:55
and had to basically destroy it and even then it didn't want to close so it's quite possible that while the horde were
49:01
off rampaging and nobody had time to come try and close this portal that Sabon could have come through and they
49:08
just would have gone off into the woods and lived somewhere they don't wouldn't have necessarily cared that on Dranor
49:13
they're not expansionist or militaristic or particularly interested in you as long as you leave them alone and don't
49:20
go into their territory they're fine uh you know if they're wandering around murdering stuff and nobody knows about
49:27
it you know it's quite possible well there's another thing that I also would like to bring to awareness as well which
49:34
is something that was an old feral druid talent that may have led us to a little
49:40
bit of an answer on this one that have existed longer than uh longer than we we
49:46
possibly know of and it's the clause of Shervala where Oh yeah right it allowed
49:52
druids feral druids in particular cat druids to turn into
49:57
uh a creature literally this is this is the description of it renegade druids have developed the ability to
50:02
shape-shift into creature half man and half cat this alternate cat form allows the use of all non-damaging druid spells
50:08
while shapeshifted and increases versatility blah blah blah also comes with a lovely quote from our druid hl
50:15
room totem which is "Have we learned nothing from the scythe of aloon?" So I will absolutely believe that just like
50:22
the Scythe of Aloon and just like the aspect of the pack and just like all of these things that druids were messing around with before that they would have
50:29
messed around with this at some point as well even before this talent existed oh oh go for it there was the fist
50:37
weapons in Zulub yes there were and what were they made of uh I think they were like the claws of something i can't
50:43
remember the name i just remember that they turned you into a big walking tiger thing and remember what those bosses turned into yeah that's they turned into
50:50
a a giant walking humanoid tiger monster and a panther and a panther yeah so yeah
50:57
I I mean it seems quite possible that you know they could have we have Wargan now mhm that are essentially like you
51:04
know they they shapeshift but we don't know there there could be like Saberon type people on Azeroth who don't
51:11
shapeshift or who even do shapeshift yeah I who knows i I would posit that it is a statistical probability that we
51:18
have had Sabon or Sabon adjacent uh entities humanoids on Azeroth for as
51:25
long as druids have been a thing and even possibly before that before the
51:31
doesn't doesn't necessarily have to be from Warlords of Drraanor i think that this is just it seems like one of those
51:36
things that just would be a natural conclusion for people that are messing around with turning into animals like
51:41
I'm reminded of being a teenager sitting at my friend's house playing werewolf
51:46
and like "Oh why would I be anything other than this hybrid form i get to be a giant manwolf and destroy things or I
51:52
get to be a giant uh bast creature where I'm a giant catman and I destroy things." Like if you're a druid and
52:00
you're like "Oh I can turn into a cat what if I'm a cat that's like big and buff and I can just like throw people around that'd be cool let me see if I
52:07
can do that." I don't know it it just seems like there would be a statistical improbability that this didn't happen
52:12
before now that that said where they've spread to is going to be the question
52:19
because if it is something that's was born of druids at a point in time or point of history they could have
52:25
literally gone every anywhere in the entire world druids have probably the
52:31
one of the easiest times traversing any landscape period they can fly they can
52:37
take on various animal forms and make their way through harsh terrain and climates they can take aquatic forms
52:43
that allow them to do all sorts of things like that we know that they can also adapt to an uh elemental
52:48
environments as well we've seen we asked the druids of the flame were uh consumed
52:54
by and given a gift essentially but they were channeling that power and taking on those aspects and we even saw some of
53:01
that when we were doing the Bellamath stuff as well like turning into creatures of elemental fire druids are
53:08
capable of doing that and going back to the famous argument that Matt and I had way long ago on this show between what
53:14
came first shamans or druids there's an inexplicable circling between the two
53:19
where there is a relationship to the spirits and the elements in both forms what that relationship is is has
53:26
differed but that doesn't mean that it didn't exist prior and we don't necessarily know the old Druid ways we
53:33
don't know everything that every secret that Sinarius taught everybody malfurion
53:40
is not going to tell us not anymore he's got his own secret and it doesn't even there are other beings like Gonk that
53:46
can teach you secrets it doesn't have to be scenarios yeah and I was going to say that like the the the trolls didn't
53:52
learn from scenarios they learned from the loa right yeah specifically gunk like he's one of the big ones who's
53:57
basically came in and said "No let's teach these guys." And for that matter they have a lot of animal loa
54:05
like seriously a lot of them going back to the the Zulan and and stuff like that
54:10
like they're they're essentially taking on aspects of the Loa when they're turning into these forms so we know that
54:16
they were capable of doing this this is before we had troll druids mind you just throwing that out there but please continue Matt i no that's my point
54:23
though I mean just because we've seen them mostly like it's quite possible for
54:28
somebody to go to one of these Loa and instead of like saying hey I want to like you know let you possess me and
54:35
turn me into a host body be like look how's about you teach me how that that shape-shifting thing and I'll do something for you cuz we know that the
54:42
lowa like to make deals all their gaga for it yeah and you know I can imagine a
54:48
goblin going in there and really messing things up with like this complicated deal and the next thing you know we get
54:55
a lot of little wear you know wear goblins um and you know like we got the Vulpera nobody knew about the Vulpera
55:02
until suddenly we knew about the Vulpera mhm same with the Sethre you know uh yeah same with the Seth there could
55:07
easily just be Sabon or Sabon adjacent cat people it could it could have been a natural evolution yeah yeah maybe they
55:14
were druids once maybe they weren't you know i don't know i just think there is a lot of I wouldn't let anything stop me
55:20
from putting Saberon on Azeroth if I wanted them to be there you know what I mean if I were right if I were involved in that like if you if you have a story
55:27
for it just there's lots of ways yeah and I think it's one of those things that it it opens up a lot of doors for other things like
55:34
again the idea of certain things not being unique in the universe is probably
55:40
better than making things unique in the universe like it just it's just makes
55:45
more sense it gives more options and also I like the idea of Azeroth being this gigantic diverse life form that we
55:53
know nothing really about right like and that's sort of like the MMO of some of the stories that we're getting like
55:59
going through with the Holofall and learning that there's lands that we didn't know existed the whole Dornagall
56:05
thing in general we didn't know this existed until we started figuring out stuff in Dragon Flight really right and
56:14
we always thought that there were just these two continents which never made sense to me personally and I remember
56:20
Matt and I in some of the earliest episodes and Ann as well and this may have something to do with it that Ann's
56:26
there helping with the story uh but we always thought that there was more to the planet than was ever really
56:34
originally conceived like the original globes that existed in Aldoir that were very quickly patched out um but like
56:41
they showed way more land masses than just what we saw with Azeroth um some of the original maps that existed in some
56:48
of the original concept arts that never got used some of the places that were referenced that yes they're wildly
56:54
different now but like the Dragon Aes has been written about and existed since before WoW was World of Warcraft it was
57:01
written about when it was still the Warcraft RTS series there was there were sketches for it we were supposed to go
57:07
there in vanilla wow it was supposed to be a thing that was supposed to be planned for that and just got scrapped
57:13
for other things because time and and direction changed but we still w up going there and it's this whole diverse
57:20
landscape it's a pretty large land mass like yes you can fly from one end of it
57:25
to the other but I want you to take a moment and consider that consider how big these expansion lands are and you
57:33
know then really consider how absolutely massive Kalumor and the Eastern Kingdoms
57:39
are like they may be the biggest land masses but they are definitely not the
57:44
only land masses and I think that's absolutely fascinating and the the war
57:50
within has opened up a whole new set and I and I said this uh when we before we got here it's opened up the express
57:56
possibility of other layers of the world existing in capacity that we had never
58:02
really considered before the subterranean aspect of the war within now calls into question every possible
58:10
surface area of Azeroth and where life can persist and that is absolutely
58:16
fascinating we haven't even talked about our our wonderful feral orc elves uh because we haven't really gotten through
58:22
their story quite yet but our wonderful allies they lived they flourished they
58:27
evolved underground their entire society exists underground before the Arafi and
58:33
everything else narubians exist underground and their origin I think is
58:38
called into question too which we've talked about before where were they actually made from old god bits or were
58:44
they just transformed by the old gods and repurposed uh but like there's now
58:50
the option of so many other cultures land masses uh that may exist under the water or under the surface of Azeroth in
58:57
various layers like shells like various different shells of Azeroth and I find that absolutely fascinating and ripe
59:04
with potential so there could be cases for anything to exist on Azeroth and I
59:10
really like that because now it means there's endless possibility and endless creativity sorry I rambled about that a
59:16
little bit but it's just made me very excited no no it's fine i I was actually thinking to myself also we know that
59:21
there are other nations with other magic traditions and so forth it's quite possible they could have pulled in some
59:27
Saberon you know we never know maybe like like some Saberon like shaman poked
59:33
a hole and came through in some other part of the world we've never even heard of yeah portals are not a unique
59:38
science h but hopefully that answers your question or gives you further speculation and excitement smith Wesson
59:45
i think that's going to do it though for us today again friends reminder that Blizzard is made possible due to the
59:50
generous contributions of patreon.com/blizzardwatch your continued support means this podcast site and community is able to thrive and grow
59:57
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Q&A site experience again if you have questions for this or any of our podcast be sure to send those in to
1:00:08
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1:00:14
pronunciation of your name if you want to hit us up on Discord we have the Q and podcast questions channel which is open to everybody same rules apply or
1:00:21
you can hit us up on the Patreon Q and podcast questions channel where we tend to look there first as a way of saying
1:00:26
thank you to our Patreon supporters for helping us keep the lights on and you can also just send us messages directly on Patreon make Liz do work we do and
1:00:33
she loves it I think maybe but she'll definitely make sure we get them she has the power to tell us if she doesn't it's
1:00:39
true uh and then if you have ideas for another show topic that you want us to cover send those in as well like I said
1:00:46
if you are interested in Matt and I doing a whole uh Fantastic 4 episode let me know i would absolutely love to do it
1:00:52
but I want to make sure that our listeners at home you'd be in for it so thumbs up thumbs down all that good stuff let us know but that folks we'll
1:00:58
see you next week [Music]
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