Up next in 10
Our readers dutifully sent in questions, and our three hosts -- Joe, Matt, and Eric -- gave them all the answers they could want, and more. They start off with a discussion on the music of WoW, spurred by the inclusion of Player Housing decor, and how Taurens all got drums. It evolves from there, to discuss how the themes present within in-game music mirror real life music characteristics. Then, they pivot to more Void vs Light in a continuation from last week, and how those forces might shape both the world we play in, and Anduin and how his characterization may continue forward. The last question involves the discussion of source influences on WoW, from Arthurian Legend through Tolkien, and then we come back to music. However, now the topic is basically the soundtrack to Stranger Things.
If you want even more background story, we also have a guide to every Warcraft book in chronological order (for those of you who prefer reading that way).
Subscribe to Lore Watch in your podcast player for more video game lore:
RSS: https://feeds.acast.com/public/shows/6556539150cd070012089193
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/lore-watch-podcast/id1023224738
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1CIJRbwbEVQfCg8r94HCwO
Visit us at https://blizzardwatch.com for the latest news on Blizzard games, and don't forget to subscribe on Patreon to support our efforts! https://www.patreon.com/blizzardwatch
Discord: https://discord.gg/MY9p4d7t8U
Bluesky: @blizzardwatch.com
Show More Show Less View Video Transcript
0:11
Hello everyone and welcome to Lore
0:13
Watch, a round table free form
0:14
discussion about in your favorite media.
0:15
I'm your host Joe Pres, one of several
0:18
lore focused folks from Blizzard Watch
0:20
and I've got my stalwart companions with
0:22
me today. First, Matt Rossy. How are you
0:24
doing today Matt? Um, I was playing
0:27
Diablo III today and they they alter
0:32
rights, man. I forgot that that existed.
0:35
So, it was like, what is this? What's
0:36
going on? I got sucked into a portal and
0:39
it was like, I forgot the story basis
0:41
for this. And it turned out that it
0:43
there is no story basis for it. That's
0:45
why lore is important, people, because
0:47
if you don't know what's going on and
0:49
there's just portals everywhere, it's
0:51
confusing. Portals, a real strange way
0:53
to run a universe. And also joining us,
0:57
our newest companion in addition to the
0:59
podcast, Eric ODay. How you doing, Eric?
1:01
>> I'm good. And I'm wondering if midnight
1:03
comes out later this month, is it 11:57
1:06
Azeroth time right now? Are we at 11:58?
1:09
>> Oo, maybe. I I feel like it's this giant
1:12
doomsday clock that's just kind of like
1:14
Ian Dornagall at this point. They for me
1:17
Azeroth time is like a suggestion like
1:20
me like like I've gone to zones and it's
1:22
night time in those zones and it's not
1:24
night time in the zone right next to
1:25
them. So I feel like at any it can be
1:27
midnight anywhere at any time in
1:28
Azeroth. You never know.
1:30
>> If I've learned anything from the night
1:31
elves, it's that time is relative.
1:35
Uh with that speaking, uh we're going to
1:36
be answering some questions from you,
1:38
our wonderful listeners. Uh, if you have
1:40
questions for this or any of our
1:42
podcasts, be sure to send those in to
1:44
podcastardwatch.com.
1:46
Specify the show that it is for in the
1:48
subject line as well as any special
1:50
pronunciation of your name. Uh, if you
1:53
want to hit us on Discord, you can go
1:54
ahead and do so. We have the Q and
1:56
podcast questions channel which we ask
1:58
for you to do the same thing. Give us
2:00
your your name, special pronunciation,
2:02
and what show it's for. If you are a
2:04
Patreon subscriber, you get access to
2:06
the Patreon Q and podcast questions
2:07
channel where we tend to look there
2:09
first as a way of saying thank you for
2:11
helping us keep the lights on. With
2:12
that, folks, let's get into the first
2:15
one. This one comes from Ocamos. A bit
2:18
niche, but the harp housing decor in
2:20
Midnight have me wondering about the
2:22
history of instruments and Azeroth from
2:24
a lore lens. There are likely a lot of
2:26
parallels between what inspired in
2:28
in-game cultures when it comes to this,
2:30
I'm sure. like Torren and Trolls with
2:32
drums, but elves having harps has me
2:34
wondering about things like the violin
2:36
and the ocarina which were in the
2:38
Shadowlands but maybe nowhere on
2:40
Azeroth. Some tracks can be triggered in
2:42
places by talking to bards. So, we can
2:45
assume the instruments used in the
2:46
triggered tracks are canon to exist in
2:48
Azeroth. I have strong opinions on this,
2:51
so I'm going to let you guys go first.
2:53
So, Matt, thoughts?
2:55
>> I like the pretty me. I I I don't really
2:57
know what to say on this one. Um, like I
3:01
I I feel like Torren and Trolls having
3:05
drums and Elves having harps. I mean, I
3:09
feel like they both have both. Um, just
3:11
because we see Torren with drums a lot
3:13
doesn't mean they don't have other
3:14
musical instruments they play. Uh, it
3:17
just feels like they would. Um, they
3:20
would certainly at least have some wind
3:22
instruments because they have giant
3:23
horns they blow sometimes. You know what
3:25
I mean? Like I I I don't feel like
3:29
everyone has individual
3:31
like only only these people have musical
3:33
instruments of this type. Uh uh as far
3:36
as the violin and the ocarina, I I feel
3:39
like we've seen violins at least on
3:41
walls in Azeroth before. Like I know in
3:45
human houses, I'm positive I've seen
3:46
them. I I seem to recall one going all
3:50
the way back to dead mines. Like in the
3:52
in the house that you go down into and
3:54
you end up in the dead mines. I feel
3:55
like that house had like some musical
3:57
instruments going around there and we've
3:59
seen people playing the thing. Uh so
4:02
yeah, I I don't I don't feel like it's
4:06
as restrictive as maybe the just
4:08
shorthand that they use in the game.
4:10
Like having torn and trolls play drums.
4:13
It's a it's a quick way to make it seem
4:16
trolly or or torreny. Um, I I I remember
4:20
seeing dwarves dance around and me play
4:22
those uh I don't want to say an
4:24
accordion because it's not a full
4:25
accordion, but they play like squeeze
4:27
box type
4:27
>> instrument. It's like a concertina type
4:29
thing.
4:30
>> Yeah. So, I feel like there are
4:32
instruments that other people have.
4:34
>> Uh, Eric,
4:35
>> thank you for this question, Octo, this
4:37
is my favorite kind of question where I
4:39
got to do a ton of research and I didn't
4:40
know what I was going to find.
4:42
>> The great isn't it? And coming from a
4:44
physics background, when you think about
4:46
music and musical instruments, they're
4:48
just ways to make air move around in
4:50
specific ways.
4:53
>> I mean, it's the same. Music is just
4:54
applied mathematics.
4:55
>> It's physics that sounds good. Yes.
4:58
>> If you hit something, it's a percussion
5:00
instrument. Your drums, you can use
5:02
strings to vibrate the air. So, all your
5:04
string instruments or you can blow air
5:06
through some sort of tube, your wind. So
5:08
the I feel like at the basic level like
5:11
a all the cultures have got drums and
5:13
just simple horns, war horns. There's a
5:15
thousand horns items in World of
5:17
Warcraft. Um there's a lot of basic like
5:22
the loot the um a harp like once you get
5:25
towards harp you get a little bit more
5:27
specific and that might be more towards
5:29
like a night elf. There's a lot of
5:31
there's so many whistles in game. So I
5:33
don't that it probably doesn't qualify
5:34
as music, but there's whistles for
5:36
everything. Once you get as specific as
5:39
the golden sachs, so I guess there's a
5:42
saxophone in game you can buy from a
5:44
vendor in Tazesh. Um it doesn't do
5:47
anything. It's just a gray item, but um
5:49
there's a piccolo that dropped all the
5:52
way back in Stratholm. Did you guys use
5:54
this or know
5:57
>> the guy to come? Yeah. for the for the
5:59
priest.
6:00
>> I never hit that max level in all the
6:03
way back in the day. So, I never
6:04
experienced those original like there's
6:06
no mitigation of someone annoying you
6:08
with this item over and over again every
6:10
minute cool down. Um, my favorite one,
6:14
there are two digs in Azeroth.
6:17
>> Mhm.
6:18
>> So, you can find one in Scholazar Basin.
6:20
The Gorlocks give you one along with uh
6:23
other instruments like horns and drums.
6:25
you have to go play a digidoo on top of
6:27
the four measur basin. And there's one
6:31
in um the alternate univer the um realms
6:35
of the season of discovery. Um there's a
6:38
digu that drops from the scarlet enclave
6:40
that summons a beast for you in combat.
6:42
So, every culture has their own
6:45
interpretations of the basic ways to
6:47
make music. And I didn't get too much
6:50
into the differences between the
6:52
cultures, but there's there's a lot out
6:54
there. And of course, I couldn't we
6:56
couldn't talk about instruments in World
6:58
of Warcraft without talking about the
6:59
fact that there is a thrash metal band.
7:01
Elite Torren Chieftain has a drum kit, a
7:03
guitar, a bass guitar.
7:05
>> Um, there's a 12 string guitar in game
7:08
that was for a Dabo anniversary event.
7:10
There's the face melter. There's the
7:11
Arcanite Ripper.
7:12
>> I mean, I've got the Ripper. I've
7:14
actually
7:15
>> I was going to ask you if you got the
7:16
Arcanite Ripper, and I was pretty sure
7:18
the answer is going to be yes. I mean,
7:19
I've got the ripper on my human, uh,
7:22
ironically enough, not my undead. Uh,
7:24
but, you know, I I I hit people with it
7:26
in the day. It's It's a good weapon for
7:29
smacking people. And it kind of makes a
7:31
musical noise,
7:32
>> especially after they did the one that
7:33
that you can hit people with the guitar
7:34
version of it and it made a bong noise.
7:37
>> Yeah, absolutely.
7:38
>> All right. So, music in Azeroth is
7:40
actually something that I have very
7:44
strong feelings about in a positive way.
7:47
Um, each of the races of Azeroth, all of
7:50
the heritage that you run across do draw
7:53
inspiration from either a Tolken-esque
7:55
background or a realworld equivalent.
7:59
And some of them are more on the nose
8:01
than others. Uh, pandarans and going
8:04
through uh, Mr. Pandaria, it's very much
8:07
based off of traditional Chinese
8:09
culture. Uh, so you're going to have a
8:10
lot of wooden instruments. You're going
8:12
to have a lot of uh guzzen zong
8:17
uh d eru peipas. You're going to have
8:20
that type of music, that type of style
8:22
of of audio. And you're going to see
8:24
those instruments reflected in the world
8:27
on top of their drums and hand drums,
8:29
which I believe is also an item you can
8:31
get in the game. One of the trinkets in
8:33
Mr. Pandaria is literally a hand drum.
8:36
Um some of the others are a little less
8:39
obvious.
8:40
Do you know what culture inspired the
8:43
nightborn? And I'm asking both of you
8:45
because this is fascinating to me.
8:47
>> I don't.
8:47
>> I think I did, but I've not I have not
8:49
retained the information.
8:51
>> That's okay. Uh, so they were actually
8:53
based off of a classical French
8:56
background, which is why when you go
8:58
into their areas, uh, a lot of it is
9:01
based off of the extravagant masquerade
9:03
balls that were, uh, you know, at the
9:05
height of aristocratic France. uh you
9:08
have a lot of the chateau which is why a
9:11
lot of them are referred to as chateau
9:13
uh the bordeau where the wines are
9:15
produced but it's also influenced in
9:17
their music. You go through those areas
9:20
you're going to hear more baroqueesque
9:23
style music than you do elsewhere in the
9:25
game. This does include things like
9:27
harps harps accords. You're going to
9:29
have more gentle chimes and bells. Uh
9:32
it's going to be more delicate and and
9:34
ethereal and that is absolutely
9:36
intentional. And if you go back and
9:38
listen to classical French music,
9:40
especially during the Baroque period,
9:42
you're going to hear a lot of
9:43
similarities through it. And it is
9:44
reflected in game as you go through the
9:46
houses and see those musical
9:48
instruments. Uh we've already covered
9:50
the torren, we've already covered uh
9:52
orcs and trolls. Uh orcs also uh draw in
9:57
uh like the shamisen and a bunch of
9:58
other stuff from Japanese culture. Uh
10:01
which a lot of people I think have
10:02
forgotten about orcs. um they really do
10:06
uh herald back to that sort of like
10:08
samuraiesque route. And if you go back
10:10
to some of the original artwork, uh they
10:12
weren't just barbarians. They weren't
10:14
just this angry horde. They were skilled
10:16
craftsmen of war. They were essentially
10:19
samurai and shogunite uh that had, you
10:22
know, soldiers underneath them. And that
10:24
was also reflected in the music that
10:25
they play. Yes, there were horns and
10:26
there were drums, but you go back go
10:29
back and listen to some of the music in
10:30
in uh Warlords of Drraanor and go back
10:33
to listen to some of the music in
10:36
original Burning Crusade when you go to
10:38
some of the orc settlements. While they
10:39
may have forgotten some of it, go to
10:40
Negrand and listen to it and you're
10:42
going to hear a lot of that sort of
10:44
Japanese influence being drawn into it,
10:46
especially with like the Burning Blades.
10:48
Go ahead.
10:48
>> You just made me think of something. I I
10:50
think you first off I think we've
10:52
actually missed that the nightborn are
10:54
are more Gascon than they are French.
10:56
>> Yeah.
10:56
>> And the reason I bring that up is
10:57
because there's Spanish influence in
10:59
their music.
11:00
>> Uh
11:02
yes, but also I I
11:05
>> is a part of France. It so it is French
11:07
but it's right on the border to Spain
11:10
and there is Spanish influence I think
11:11
in the music that I want to listen to.
11:14
>> Uh but also you had me thinking about
11:16
when you're talking about the Japanese
11:17
influence. I think we're ignoring the
11:19
Tibetan.
11:20
>> There is some of that as well. Yes,
11:21
absolutely.
11:22
>> Like the throat singing type stuff that
11:24
they do. They don't they don't fully go
11:26
for it, but there's a lot of that
11:29
>> but you do hear a lot of that when you
11:30
go into Mapander and go to the jungle
11:32
areas.
11:33
>> Yes, absolutely. Uh which is
11:36
interesting, but you know, the Tibetan
11:38
cultural aspects are always going to be
11:40
somewhat I don't know how to put it.
11:43
There's always going to be a little bit
11:44
of being careful with that because China
11:46
doesn't like it.
11:47
>> Yeah. Yeah.
11:47
>> And for that matter, there's a lot of
11:49
Mongolian stuff that I think we don't
11:51
get to really focus on. The Yongol in
11:53
particular, there's very Mongolian
11:55
influence to my opinion.
11:57
>> I would agree with that statement. Um
11:59
the and some other ones that I I do want
12:01
to call out here as well. Not that I I
12:02
want to roll through, but I don't want
12:03
to I can spend an entire episode talking
12:05
about music and Azeroth and I don't want
12:07
to just run that into the ground. Um but
12:11
we also have like Gilaeas definitely the
12:13
Victorian England style. So, you're
12:14
going to have a lot of the musical
12:15
instruments you would find during that
12:17
time frame. Uh,
12:19
>> did you feel like it was circus
12:20
inspired? Like almost like a collap or
12:22
something
12:22
>> a little bit because that was that was
12:24
very popular in Victorian era as I'm
12:26
sure you know.
12:27
>> It felt it felt like the dark moon stuff
12:30
was the Dark Moon um what is it called?
12:33
The Dark Moon Park. I want to call it
12:34
the park. It's not the park. It's like a
12:35
it's like a show carnival, right?
12:37
>> The Dark Moon Fair.
12:38
>> Dark Moon Fair. Thank you. Dark Moon
12:40
Fair and Gilaeas feel close musically.
12:43
possibly because of that the whole thing
12:45
they did with the uh the um playing card
12:49
game Hearthstone when they did the
12:51
Witchwood. It felt like the witchwood
12:53
kind of brought the to the two sounds
12:54
together more, but they were all using
12:56
kind of stuff like collapses and so
12:58
forth. As you very correctly pointed
13:01
out, the collap was huge in in Victorian
13:04
England. And and even beyond that, like
13:05
you'll also have a music box type feel
13:08
to it as well because one of the things
13:09
that Victorian era households had a lot
13:12
of and you if you go back and look at
13:14
it, yes, they're known for having like
13:16
this this collection of chachkis and
13:18
like having a very sort of like lavish
13:20
and collector uh interior to their home,
13:24
but music boxes were ever present. And
13:26
while music boxes have been popular
13:27
throughout time, during the Victorian
13:30
era, it was impossible to find a
13:32
household that basically didn't have one
13:34
in every room in the house. And so, a
13:37
lot of the Gilaan music, you'll hear
13:38
that tinkling that that sort of like the
13:40
metal ties of it being sort of wound
13:43
through. I encourage you to go back and
13:45
listen to some of the music in the
13:46
original area. Um,
13:49
>> you think in this in the video part when
13:51
you when the first time you see Wargan
13:53
come through the window,
13:54
>> that's actually got like a pretty deep
13:57
organ influence to it too. Like the kind
14:00
of giant church organs that they had in
14:03
a lot of Victorian churches at the time.
14:05
Uh, I remember that being really strong.
14:07
Uh, just that blasting through the
14:10
window and that kind of like sorous note
14:12
to it.
14:12
>> Yeah.
14:13
>> Which I had not thought about. So, as
14:14
we're doing this, he's making me
14:15
remember my musical training and I don't
14:17
like it.
14:18
>> Um, we have others as well. Uh, we can
14:21
talk about some of the Allied races,
14:23
too. Void elves are interesting because
14:25
they draw from all of the other elven
14:27
heritages. Uh, but they add to it from
14:30
my standpoint a very interesting musical
14:34
um discordance, right? they use uh they
14:37
essentially shift on the circle of
14:39
fifths and bring themselves down into
14:41
lower keys, minor keys and add slight
14:44
distortion and off sync echo. And so if
14:49
you go through and listen to like the
14:50
void elf uh recruitment stuff uh and or
14:53
any of the void elf areas uh you'll see
14:56
like strewn about there's still these
14:58
elven uh instruments but when you listen
15:01
to the music it's this sort of just
15:03
slightly out of phase slightly out of
15:05
perfect harmony uh slightly sonnerous
15:08
and I really enjoy that that is sort of
15:11
how it how they sort of I I guess
15:14
thematically atmospherized that area. Uh
15:17
the Janai have a lot of chimes. Uh which
15:20
sort of comes in with their and this is
15:23
going to sound really weird. Um, Russian
15:26
traditional instruments, at least from
15:28
what I remember, are a lot of uh very
15:33
sort of like high-pitched
15:35
short reverberance uh stringed
15:39
instruments uh and chrom like things
15:41
like chromatic accordians
15:44
uh and things like that that sort of
15:46
have almost like a chimelike feeling to
15:49
them. They don't ring out with the same
15:51
sort of sustain that other instruments
15:53
do. the music is very punctuated with
15:56
these very short uh very crisp, very
15:59
strong bursts of sound. Um, and also you
16:02
add the wind instruments like the
16:04
shepherd's horns and uh tambourines and
16:06
drums for like the subtle uh like rhythm
16:09
in the background. Go back and listen to
16:12
the light forge and go back and listen
16:14
to uh traditional Dreni. The DAI hold on
16:18
to that like they really do pay homage
16:20
to sort of like that that Russian uh
16:22
traditional uh sort of music and then
16:25
the light forge elevate it by making it
16:28
more sonnerous, making it more um sort
16:32
of like echoey, bringing in a higher
16:34
aspect. And they also pitch it up where
16:36
they're using more sharps. They're
16:38
they're brightening the tone to reflect
16:40
sort of the light uh influence on them.
16:44
And uh we can go even further like the
16:47
culturans I think are pretty uh if you
16:50
don't know what they're based on uh you
16:52
haven't been paying attention. They're
16:54
very much are like drawn from the
16:56
British Isles but they also like Matt
16:58
was pointing out uh with the uh
17:00
nightborn pulling in some of that
17:02
Spanish influence. there is a lot of the
17:04
Spanish influence as well in the culture
17:06
and music. Uh because again Spain and
17:09
England had a lot of overlap during that
17:12
time frame when they were at sort of
17:13
like they were at war with each other
17:14
for a very long time then they were
17:16
trading partners for a very long time
17:18
and they were close enough that their
17:19
cultures exchanged for a very long time.
17:22
Uh so you you see elements of that in
17:24
there and you see some of that with uh
17:25
the sea shanties uh like roll the old
17:28
chariot and Spanish ladies. Um, and then
17:31
like you have that traditional folk
17:32
music brought into it, which is also
17:34
great. The Dark Iron Dwarves and all the
17:36
rest of the dwarves in in general. Um,
17:39
you'll hear sweeping strings, drum beat
17:41
punctuations. You'll hear emphasis on
17:44
chorus and then you'll hear emphasis on
17:46
drone uh, instruments, right? I'm not
17:49
just talking about just bag pipes or
17:51
like the Wild Hammers, but you're going
17:52
to hear the vocal term, too. Their their
17:54
singing tends to have kind of a
17:56
>> I almost want to say Gregorian chant
17:58
like
17:59
>> very much so.
18:00
>> Yeah. It it almost feels a little
18:02
Russian. Not the not what we think of
18:05
like the you know the theme of Tetris or
18:06
whatever but it but that older Russian
18:09
music that feels very it's like very
18:11
grim but also very sorous. It it it it
18:16
comes at you. It doesn't just sit there.
18:18
It it's like Peter and the Wolf in a
18:21
way. I remember listening to that or
18:23
anything by Chapovsky really.
18:24
>> Yeah.
18:25
>> Um just there's a lot of that there. I
18:27
think you're right. I absolutely think
18:28
that's there.
18:29
>> And then the Xandelari Trolls, which I I
18:31
I do want to call out because I'm
18:32
feeling sort of emotional about what was
18:34
on display today. Um you hear like it's
18:38
a pastiche of me, South American
18:41
civilizations. So you have like things
18:43
like clay flutes, rattles, shakers, and
18:45
percussive instruments that are not just
18:48
drums. Uh, and then when you do have
18:50
drums, you have stuff that reckon back
18:52
or hearken back to like the tan tea.
18:56
And I'm saying that absolutely wrong
18:58
because I'm not from that area. Um, but
19:00
it's a very distinct sound. And when you
19:03
go back and listen to it, you're going
19:05
to hear a lot of that. Um, it's you're
19:09
going to hear uh specific types of like
19:11
almost like pan flutes like which which
19:13
sort of go back to like the Incas. uh
19:16
you're going to hear pre-Colombia
19:19
Colombian America style music, right?
19:22
Like it's it's this very classic, very
19:25
old uh very much rooted in Native
19:29
heritage that you get to experience. And
19:31
then going back to the Torin, the Torin
19:34
also go back to a Native American
19:36
heritage with their musical choices and
19:39
instruments. It's not just drums. You'll
19:41
see things like small flutes made of
19:43
bone. You'll see horns. You'll see uh
19:46
shakers and rattlers and beads on things
19:49
like some of the stuff hanging in the
19:50
torn area. They're not necklaces. Like
19:53
go into some of the torn homes and
19:54
you'll see like loops with beads hanging
19:56
from them. Those aren't necklaces. Those
19:59
aren't like bracelets. Those are things
20:02
you like in traditional Native American
20:04
heritage, you would put around your
20:06
ankles while dancing to make shaking
20:08
noises to have that sort of like that
20:11
particular style of percussion to
20:13
punctuate the dancing. Um, I know this
20:16
because my older sisters are Native
20:17
American. They used to play WoW and they
20:20
absolutely loved it.
20:22
Uh, so tons of really great stuff here.
20:25
And I think as terms of lore, while the
20:30
individual instruments sometimes are
20:31
tied to questing, they are more often
20:34
tied to giving the heritage that you are
20:37
playing a rounded feel. And it's part of
20:41
the reason why some of us resonate in my
20:44
opinion here with certain heritages the
20:47
way we do and why they call to us some
20:50
of our our our ocular uh or orally or
20:54
what I can never remember the word for
20:56
it. The the way we hear things uh oral
20:59
oral um the way we hear things
21:02
influences what we sort of gravitate
21:04
towards and this is one of them. But it
21:06
does such a job of rounding out and
21:08
making them feel like complete cultures.
21:11
I have talked for a very long time. I
21:12
apologize. Is there anything else you
21:14
guys would like to add to this?
21:16
>> Just as a parting thought, you bring up
21:18
that the fact that when you when you go
21:19
to an area in the game, that's what you
21:22
hear is what your character would hear.
21:24
And I never really thought about that on
21:26
a conscious level. And it's doesn't
21:28
apply everywhere. Like it's when I when
21:30
you're climbing up the storm peaks, you
21:32
don't hear that haunting melody because
21:35
you're outside and there's no music. But
21:37
when you go into an inn, when you go
21:38
into a village, you'd probably hear that
21:40
music like drifting from someone's house
21:43
or there's someone sitting, you know,
21:45
they don't put it in the game, but
21:46
somebody is sitting in the corner
21:48
playing a loot or a harp or something.
21:50
So, I I'm going to be thinking about
21:52
that in the future because I I also love
21:55
all of the music in the game. We've
21:57
we're going to have a couple new zones
21:59
to go explore. We're going back to
22:01
Qualas to see what kind of music is
22:04
going to be there. So, I'm interested to
22:05
keep thinking about that going forward.
22:07
>> Me, too. Me, too. Matt, anything to add
22:10
before we move on to the next one?
22:11
>> I was just thinking about how
22:13
interesting it is that you talk about
22:14
the Xandelari being Mesoamerican, and I
22:18
don't disagree, but it's interesting.
22:19
The Xandelari music which is considered
22:21
to be ancestral is Mesoamerican but the
22:24
dark sphere music is heavily African.
22:27
>> Yeah, very much so.
22:29
>> And that's something I hadn't really
22:31
thought about but how different that is.
22:33
And the fact for that matter like the
22:36
Ammani and Gurabashi who we've heard
22:38
quite a bit uh mixed the two pretty
22:40
aggressively and and I never really
22:42
thought about that that the
22:44
>> almost like they were an empire that had
22:45
had assimilated the other cultures and
22:47
put it into their own hearkening back to
22:49
real world parallels. Yeah. I hadn't I
22:52
just hadn't really thought about it in
22:53
terms of like there's a kind of like
22:55
almost Jamaican/Hian
22:58
sound to some of the stuff that you see
23:01
in in Zullean, some of the stuff you
23:04
hear. Whereas I'd say the Gurabashi,
23:07
especially when you go to Zulgar, that
23:09
that place sounds like seriously like
23:13
like African vibes.
23:14
>> Mhm.
23:15
>> Um so yeah, it is interesting to think
23:17
about. I I don't have a lot of concrete
23:20
conclusions about this, but I do think
23:21
it's interesting.
23:22
>> So, this is me encouraging you all to
23:24
really pay attention to the music the
23:26
next time you go through, not just
23:27
Undermind, which absolutely slaps cuz
23:29
Goblins are absolutely jazz musicians.
23:32
Uh, but go through and listen to the
23:34
music and think about its place in the
23:36
heritage or that zone that you are in
23:39
and why it it ties with them because
23:41
these are not like random choices by the
23:45
musical team. like these are being
23:47
composed with a very specific goal in
23:50
mind and it's something that I've always
23:52
loved about this game more than some
23:55
others. So there you go. This is uh you
23:58
got a lot of me today instead of Matt.
24:00
Uh but we're going to change that now
24:02
because I think we're going to move on
24:02
to some of the next stuff. This is
24:04
another question from Exynite uh who we
24:07
answered a bunch of last time. Uh we
24:09
didn't get all of them so we're going to
24:11
try again. Uh, do you believe there will
24:13
be worldly changes due to the void
24:15
influence from Midnight? Like when
24:16
Cataclysm came out, or maybe an old raid
24:19
or dungeon getting taken over by the
24:20
void due to the lay lines being
24:22
underneath them? Eric, what do you
24:24
think?
24:24
>> I always love updates to the world we're
24:26
getting the Qualas and I think based on
24:29
the just it's not even live yet. Based
24:31
on the reaction to that, they you know,
24:34
maybe they had planned it a whole time,
24:35
but now we know we're getting all of
24:36
Northrand revisited. We're going to see
24:39
what's going on there. how the land has
24:42
changed, how the people have changed,
24:44
and thinking about with voidstorm coming
24:49
and the armies of darkness descending,
24:52
like where where else on Azeroth could
24:54
be changed. And I think it could be kind
24:56
of cool to have not like a whole another
24:58
zone be taken over, but yeah, like a
25:01
raid or a dungeon or a location or a bit
25:04
of story. I mean, we haven't revisited
25:07
zones that much, but we do get quests
25:09
that send us back across the world to do
25:13
different stuff, to check in on things.
25:15
We've had that for a long time. So, it
25:17
could be cool to go and revisit places
25:20
like unexpectedly that might have um you
25:23
know, Zalot attacking the Sunwell, but
25:26
some small contingent of her forces are
25:28
going to be going for the tomb of
25:30
Sargeras or somewhere in Diremal for
25:33
some random reason. So, I I think it's a
25:37
possibility that there could be some
25:39
void takeover of something. And I I'm
25:43
kind of interested in Anouarage and the
25:47
fact that the sword is so close. Is
25:49
Kathun's influence still relevant since
25:52
we're kind of talking about so much
25:53
void? Could Kathun be revived? Is there
25:56
anything active there? Like we really
25:57
haven't seen much of that area and it's
26:02
been decades. So what's been going on
26:04
there? So, I I don't I don't know if we
26:06
know the sword's going to come back in,
26:08
and it seems like not bringing Encourage
26:10
back to at least a little bit of it
26:12
would be kind of like I guess it was
26:14
fine in there. I guess we did a good job
26:16
back in classic.
26:17
>> Matt,
26:18
>> I do not think it's going to be like
26:20
Cataclysm. Uh they learned a very
26:22
valuable lesson from the revamp of
26:24
Cataclysm, which was that if you do a
26:27
revamp that gets rid of things people
26:29
want, you're going to end up having to
26:30
make WoW classic. Like, that's just a
26:33
fact. when they did the world revamp. Is
26:35
the world revamp good? Yes, in many ways
26:37
it's very good. I like being able to fly
26:39
around. But nevertheless, when you make
26:42
drastic permanent changes that get rid
26:44
of things, and that's what Cataclysm
26:46
did. Uh the
26:47
>> the one that always comes to my mind is
26:49
like Desala. Desolus wasn't a
26:51
particularly welltraveled zone. People
26:53
didn't love it. It had a few quests and
26:55
a few experiences that were integral,
26:58
but otherwise it was a pretty empty
26:59
place where stuff just happened. And
27:01
they thought, well, this will be great.
27:03
we'll revamp this, we'll change it.
27:04
Nobody will notice. Everybody noticed
27:06
and everybody was unhappy. And I don't
27:10
think they're going to do that. There's
27:11
lots of other zones where you can see
27:12
the same thing. Uh Fereralas has it.
27:14
Thousand Needles Big Time has it. Uh and
27:18
I don't think they're going to do that.
27:19
Do I think they're going to do zone
27:21
revamps? Yes. I don't think they're
27:23
going to do them the way they did in
27:24
Cataclysm. I think there will be a lot
27:26
more uh of stuff like you this is how it
27:29
is when you're this level and you go
27:31
back and you start it whether that's
27:33
through phasing whether that's through
27:35
other means but I definitely think it's
27:39
going to be the old stuff will still be
27:41
there and you can see it or you can see
27:43
the new stuff whenever you want through
27:45
some mechanism once you've started it. I
27:48
mean, we've seen that before with like
27:50
Battle for Azeroth when they changed
27:53
Unders City and like that whole area.
27:56
They eventually like they had a a
27:58
character from the bronze dragon flight
28:00
who could switch the zone back and forth
28:02
for you so you could do the stuff that
28:04
used to be available there. I think
28:06
it'll be closer to that. I don't think
28:08
they're going to change a bunch of
28:10
stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if they
28:12
did do something to a couple dungeons
28:14
though because that seems to go off a
28:16
lot easier for people. Like when they
28:18
changed Scarlet Monastery and then
28:20
changed it again, people seem okay with
28:22
that. Uh and you know, like they changed
28:25
Upper Black Rock Spire, people didn't
28:27
really seem to be that upset about that
28:29
either. So, I feel like it's possible
28:32
they will do it to a dungeon. I just
28:34
don't think they're going to do a
28:34
Cataclysm style revamp to the world
28:36
where everything is gone and changed
28:38
forever. But I definitely think they
28:40
will put in switchable zones where you
28:43
can see the new stuff. I don't like when
28:45
we go to Northrand, it's not going to
28:47
get rid of Wrath's Northrand. It's just
28:49
going to be another version of Northrand
28:50
we go to later. Uh that's that's my take
28:52
on it. That's how I think they're So I'm
28:55
going to give a little bit of a mild
28:57
spoiler warning just because I'm not I'm
28:59
not going to go into too many details uh
29:01
because I do want everybody to
29:03
experience it, but I will give a
29:04
warning. So skip the next like 2 3
29:07
minutes uh and come back if you if you
29:09
want to be completely surprised by
29:10
midnight. We know things are going to
29:12
change. Uh we know that there is going
29:14
to be an element of the world shifting
29:17
based off of some things that have been
29:19
shown in game as well as some of the
29:20
achievements that have been uh data
29:23
mined for what's coming uh or at least
29:25
what is present on the beta. So we know
29:27
that stuff is going to happen. uh that
29:30
means that we're probably going to have
29:32
some influence of the void at the very
29:34
least in Quelthalos uh and in that
29:37
region and I mean we don't know what the
29:39
extent of that is going to be yet. Now
29:42
that said we are in a better position
29:44
than we were in Cataclysm for something
29:47
like this. Well I agree with Matt and I
29:49
don't think it's going to be a full
29:51
worldaltering item and a complete
29:54
revamp. Cataclysm definitely maybe did
29:58
while I think it improved some stuff
30:00
like Matt said, I think that it could
30:02
have potentially been handled better
30:04
because it just got rid of so much other
30:06
stuff. But we have phasing now. And in
30:08
matter of fact, we see it already with
30:11
certain zones like where we have a giant
30:14
sword sticking out of the world. You can
30:16
go back, talk to one of the bronze
30:18
dragons, and they will take you back to
30:20
a world without a giant sword. uh we
30:22
have that in several of the areas of the
30:24
game now which means we have a mechanism
30:28
in with which both things can be true.
30:31
So you can have a world that is
30:33
everchanging and updating based off of
30:36
what is happening in game and likely
30:39
will happen to a certain extent but you
30:41
don't delete everything because you
30:43
allow players to go back and experience
30:45
the zone without those altered changes.
30:48
And I think that's really important. Um,
30:52
part of what made Cataclysm Cataclysm
30:54
was there was no going back. Once it was
30:56
done, those zones were done. It was a
31:00
complete world rework before phasing
31:03
became a thing. And I also think it was
31:05
partially responsible for why phasing
31:07
becomes something they invested so much
31:09
time, effort, and money into, right?
31:10
like it it means you can have your story
31:14
go forward and not be completely like
31:17
shutting out everybody who maybe doesn't
31:19
want to see that zone like so that's my
31:22
two cents again I think we are going to
31:24
see some world changes but it's not
31:27
going to be anything like Cataclysm
31:29
because we're always going to be able to
31:30
flip the world back anything else to add
31:32
gentlemen
31:32
>> I also think that I think it'll there's
31:36
going to be continuations of stuff
31:38
continuing like I we know that Last
31:41
Titan is going to have um like Northrand
31:44
gets a revamp. There'll be a new
31:45
Northrand. I think that's going to keep
31:48
happening. Uh they know it works.
31:51
They've they tried it in a limited basis
31:53
for Midnight. It got a it got a really
31:55
big positive response. They're embracing
31:58
it for The Last Titan. And I think we're
32:01
going to eventually see it happening
32:02
again on just other zones of Azeroth
32:06
that we've been to. And I I think it's
32:08
going to always avoid the Cataclysm
32:12
throwing things out that they just
32:14
aren't willing to do that anymore. And
32:16
they don't have to. Not just because of
32:18
phasing, although phasing is a really
32:20
big example. Uh but because there are
32:23
other ways to do revamps that don't
32:26
necessarily change the zone very much. I
32:28
can like we can still go to like Alterak
32:30
Valley and still see it the way it was
32:33
like without even like thinking about
32:34
the uh the PvP stuff. Not Alter Valley,
32:37
sorry. Arai Basin.
32:38
>> Mhm.
32:39
>> Uh the actual zone, the Arathy Highlands
32:41
are is still there. It's got its
32:43
cataclysm revamp, but they didn't change
32:45
it when they changed it for Battle for
32:47
Azeroth. It's still accessible without
32:50
Battle for Azeroth stuff. They they kept
32:52
that confined to the uh I forget what
32:54
they called them, the not not raids nor
32:58
PvP, but like PvE PvP.
33:01
>> Mhm.
33:02
>> Battle what do they call them?
33:03
Battlefields. I I don't remember.
33:04
>> I don't remember. I used to run them all
33:06
the time and that's really embarrassing.
33:08
I don't remember them. But regardless,
33:09
you that this seems to be the focus with
33:12
how they do world changes that they try
33:14
to preserve what's there so people who
33:16
love it can still have it.
33:17
>> Yeah, I agree. And I can't think of much
33:19
that they've taken out of the game
33:21
completely since Cataclysm. like they
33:23
learned that lesson hard
33:24
>> to to say, "Okay, well, even if we
33:27
revisit a dungeon and it's changed, you
33:29
can still just get into the old dungeon
33:32
if you just want to see it without all
33:33
the tentacles in it and you want to run
33:34
it for the old transmog and stuff like
33:36
Yeah, it's going to be there. So, as
33:38
long as they don't run out of space on
33:39
the servers, there's always going to be
33:41
the old version of stuff.
33:42
>> Yeah. And I don't think we're going to
33:43
run out of space on the servers anytime
33:45
soon. Buy more servers.
33:49
All right, we have another question here
33:51
from X Knight that I do want to get into
33:52
real quick. Uh because I think this is
33:54
also relevant and potentially mild
33:56
spoilers ahead or at least wild
33:59
speculation ahead. Uh I know Sylvanas
34:02
went on hiatus, but I have a fun theory
34:04
for Midnight. I believe Anduin will stop
34:06
at nothing to get back in touch with the
34:08
light and ends up getting himself killed
34:10
early in mid expansion trying to fi
34:13
fight the void. I think Sylvanas will
34:15
find his body after finding out. It
34:16
takes him to Bolvar and together make
34:18
him undead. I think it will become the
34:20
second undead to be able to use the
34:22
light and become important for the final
34:23
raid. It would allow for them to
34:25
possibly explore the playful
34:26
relationship between the two latter uh
34:29
uh later on for the fans who want to see
34:30
it happen. I will correct you on one
34:32
thing here, Exite. He will not, if this
34:35
were to happen, which I don't think it's
34:37
likely, and we'll talk about reasons
34:38
why, he would not be the second undead
34:40
able to use the light. He would be just
34:43
the next in a long string of ones that
34:45
are able to wield the light as we've
34:47
talked about many times ahead. And
34:48
>> Joe is trying to Joe is trying to keep
34:50
me from screaming seliac and be dragged
34:52
away with a hook.
34:53
>> Sir Zeliac or or uh Bishop Alonza's foul
34:57
>> fowl. Yep.
34:58
>> Right. Like we have a ton of undead that
35:00
we know can wield the light. The light
35:02
is not exclusive uh to any one race or
35:06
living entity. Um, so I want to put that
35:10
to the side and then I'm going to kick
35:11
it over to Matt first so he can go and
35:13
and give you his two cents.
35:16
>> Matt,
35:16
>> first off, Anduin doesn't need to
35:18
reconnect with the light.
35:19
>> He found it already
35:20
>> because he did.
35:21
>> Yeah.
35:21
>> Yes. Uh, thanks to uh Faren uh Lothar,
35:26
he can he's accepted that the light
35:28
never went anywhere. The light was there
35:29
the whole time going, "No, man. I'm
35:30
right here." No, you got to stop yelling
35:33
at yourself. You can't hear me over how
35:35
much you hate yourself. Uh, I don't
35:38
care. I I'm still here, buddy. It's me,
35:40
the light. You remember I helped raise
35:42
your dad that one time and then you died
35:44
later. Anyway, sorry. But you know, I
35:46
did help that one time. Come on, buddy.
35:48
We're here. We're both here. That's been
35:50
That's dumb. That's done. He is
35:52
reconnected to the light. He can call
35:54
upon it. It will help him. We got there.
35:57
Uh, does that mean that he might not get
36:00
himself killed? I mean, he might get
36:02
himself killed. Uh he's never had much
36:05
in the way of self-preservation
36:06
instincts. I've had to save that boy
36:08
several times. Uh I remember one time he
36:11
got a giant Sha bell dropped on him. Uh
36:15
he he does not always think before he
36:17
acts. I will give you that. But I don't
36:21
think this is what they're going to do.
36:24
Especially because I don't think they
36:26
want him and Sylvanas to to be doing
36:30
like meat cute things. I don't know how
36:32
to put it. Like I don't think they want
36:35
them to have an adversarial relationship
36:37
at this point. They've done that.
36:39
They've had them have the adversarial
36:40
relationship. They've moved past it to a
36:43
degree. But I definitely don't think
36:45
they want to make him like you're making
36:47
it sound like that old show, the Karen
36:49
Gillian show, Singles. Do you guys
36:51
remember that show? Mhm.
36:53
>> Like I don't think we want to have
36:55
Sylvanas and and and you know Anduin
36:59
doing the weird intense dating thing
37:01
that you're suggesting in this. I I do
37:04
not think they're going there. Um like
37:06
the playful relationship. I never felt
37:08
like their relationship was playful. Uh,
37:10
I kind of felt like it was like one
37:13
person convinced the other person was
37:15
wrong and the other person convinced
37:17
that the first person was wrong and
37:19
eventually they both realized they were
37:21
both kind of wrong. That's kind of how I
37:23
felt their relationship. Not not that
37:25
they were playful. I I didn't see a lot
37:27
of playing going on. Uh, the part where
37:29
she helps get his soul, you know, an
37:31
evil soul jammed into his body to make
37:33
him like a puppeted robot, that wasn't
37:35
playful. Like that's no game I've ever
37:37
played. I I don't and I don't want to.
37:40
Uh, but I I I don't hate the idea of
37:43
Anduin being undead, but I don't really
37:45
see a reason for it either. I would say,
37:47
let me say that much. I will always be
37:49
willing to be proved wrong. They can do
37:51
whatever they want, but I I looking at
37:53
the story as it is, I don't see that to
37:56
be very likely. And I really don't see
37:58
Bolvar wanting to be involved in it.
37:59
>> I think Bolvar would potentially be
38:01
upset about that if they asked him.
38:03
He was like, you got to remember when
38:05
Anduin's father was missing, Olvar was
38:08
basically the kid's dad
38:10
>> for a long time.
38:12
>> Yeah. For at least 5 years. And during
38:15
that period, he watched the kid go from
38:17
a little kid to almost teenager. And I I
38:21
just don't see Bolvar wanting undeath
38:23
for anyone, much less Andowin. nor would
38:29
you need Bolvar to help you raise the
38:31
the dead. He doesn't have the helm. He
38:34
doesn't have Lich King abilities
38:37
anymore. He's just a death knight like
38:39
everybody else there. He's just a dead
38:42
person or in his case not even fully
38:45
dead because the fire of the red dragon
38:48
flake basically trapped him in a state
38:50
neither living nor dead. He's another
38:52
another weird form of undead. And then
38:55
you add on to the fact that he's hanging
38:56
out with all these death knights. I just
38:58
don't think that this is something
38:59
Bolvar is gonna want to do. Like it
39:01
doesn't feel like Bolvar, especially
39:03
since Anduin is about the same age as
39:06
his daughter.
39:08
>> Mhm.
39:08
>> That he just reconnected with. I I don't
39:11
see that as a as a move that Bolvar is
39:14
going to want to do. He would He'd feel
39:16
too guilty about it.
39:18
>> In my opinion,
39:18
>> Eric,
39:19
>> I think maybe what X Knight may I'm not
39:22
going to speak for X Knight. They may
39:24
have been saying something else, but it
39:25
made me think that Anduin would become
39:27
the second entity to be resurrected via
39:30
the light. As in, you'd have Kalia Kalia
39:34
and you'd have Anduin as another uh
39:38
light necromancy being. Um I I do think
39:42
that knowing that it's possible, it's
39:45
the kind of thing where we might not
39:47
only see Kalia as the only example of
39:51
that ever. So,
39:52
>> but here's your problem with that.
39:54
Alans fowl was not raised by the Lich
39:58
King or the Scourge or any of the
40:00
plagues.
40:02
>> Mhm.
40:02
>> He came back earlier.
40:05
>> He did.
40:05
>> And we don't necessarily know why, but
40:08
the fact that Fowl was involved in
40:10
Cali's raising heavily implies that the
40:13
light raised it.
40:14
>> Interesting. So even if we think that's
40:17
what he's saying, Fowl is still a
40:20
contender for raised by the light can
40:23
control, you know, is intrinsically
40:25
powered by the light. Um because Fowl
40:29
never knelt to the scourge, never served
40:32
the Lich King ever.
40:34
>> Although I mean I I think I think they
40:36
largely Yeah, he never served the
40:38
scourge, but I think they largely said
40:39
that he was raised during the third war.
40:41
Um, but we've never really gone back to
40:43
revisit it. And some of the stuff that
40:45
he says during the Calia like quest
40:48
essentially uh and their whole
40:50
discussion has led to this that what
40:53
Matt's talking about where there's this
40:54
idea that he may have woken up during
40:58
the third war, but it may not have
40:59
actually been Scourge related. Um, it
41:02
may have just been the assumption. Uh,
41:04
so we don't know. um which I think is
41:07
fascinating and interesting when it
41:09
comes to um I'll kind of jump in here
41:11
real quick and say that I've been on the
41:14
forefront of saying that this was going
41:15
to be the expansion that we're going to
41:16
see Sylvanas come back uh and I think we
41:19
already know I think all of us are kind
41:21
of on the same page that even before any
41:23
of the devs not actually confirmed but
41:26
confirmed that she'll be back then
41:28
before we got the the quest and the
41:30
cinematic that sent us to the mall um I
41:33
think it's pretty obvious that she's
41:35
going to be back if for no The reason
41:37
her home's getting messed with again.
41:39
Her sisters and family are getting
41:41
messed with again. Sylvanas is nothing
41:43
but having strong feelings about that
41:46
which have led her to do some very
41:48
questionable things in the past. Now
41:50
she's got her whole soul back. She's got
41:52
all the pieces of her that were left
41:54
there before. She's more her old self
41:56
than she ever has before. You cannot
41:58
tell me, and I will say this, and I will
42:00
say this right now, the greatest ranger
42:02
general in all of Kalos's history will
42:05
not rise to the occasion to defend her
42:07
friends and family. They may not like
42:09
it,
42:09
>> especially since Yeah, I agree totally.
42:12
Especially since the only reason she
42:13
lost when she was defending Qualas
42:16
against the scourge is because she
42:18
didn't know that the scourge had a
42:20
traitor implanted within the the the
42:23
blood elves. I mean, at the time, the
42:24
high elves. She didn't know about
42:26
Drathier
42:27
>> and had Draier not been there, they
42:28
would have held the line.
42:30
>> Yeah, they were they were winning. The
42:32
Scourge couldn't get through the the uh
42:34
the Ward Stones. It wasn't until
42:36
Drathier basically took down the
42:38
Wardstone network that they got in. So,
42:40
yeah. No, absolutely.
42:41
>> Now, that said, I think that there is
42:43
already sort of a relationship between
42:45
Anduin and Sylvanas that isn't this meat
42:48
cute thing that everybody keeps pushing
42:50
for. And with Anduin, I don't think also
42:53
with Kalia, there's a lot of people that
42:55
have been pushing for that to be his
42:56
romantic like partnership or partnering.
42:59
Um,
43:00
>> he's way too young for Calia, guys.
43:02
>> He's way too young for Calia, but also I
43:04
don't think it fits his character and
43:06
it's not really what his character is
43:08
about. If anything, I think that the
43:11
relationship not it wouldn't wouldn't be
43:13
adversarial. Sylvanas may come back and
43:15
like shoot something that's trying to
43:17
take Anduin out and just kind of nod to
43:19
him because she knows
43:22
>> that's what she did for his father.
43:23
>> That's exactly what she did for his
43:24
father. But she also understands the
43:27
loss that he's felt because she has also
43:28
felt it twice now mind you because the
43:33
realization of losing her loved ones
43:36
back home but then also the second loss
43:38
of losing Thanos and not being able to
43:41
find him in the mall, not knowing where
43:44
he is after that realization that he
43:46
died again. Like she knows what it's
43:50
like to feel that loss, that disconnect
43:51
from who you are in a way that nobody
43:53
else does. And so they may have a
43:56
conversation of friendship where it's
43:58
like, "I've been where you are, kid. I
44:01
get it. And if you need to look no
44:04
further than what happens when you lose
44:05
yourself, just look at every bad
44:06
decision I've ever made. Don't do this."
44:09
Like, I can see her having that
44:10
relationship with him and him coming
44:13
back for that. Now, if anything, this
44:15
could be an opportunity for Anduin to
44:18
learn more from Yria than he it would be
44:22
Sylvanas because this is something I've
44:24
been toying with a lot as well. Um,
44:27
Anduin in recent years in game has been
44:31
sort of questioning self, understandably
44:34
so, but he's also more open to a realm
44:37
of possibilities. Could And be the first
44:39
one that wields both the void and the
44:41
light? What do we think of that? because
44:43
that's something that Shadow Priest kind
44:46
of already do it. Could he be the first
44:49
one that does both as an NPC in game?
44:52
>> Going to refer back to two books. Um,
44:55
Before the Storm and the one that's got
44:58
him helping uh, Yria and her husband,
45:03
whose name I cannot remember at the
45:04
moment, ridiculous. Ryan, thank you. the
45:07
one where the two of them are watching
45:09
him and they're a little concerned
45:10
because he kind of gets a little voidy,
45:12
gets a little shadowy.
45:13
>> Uhhuh.
45:14
>> Um
45:15
>> Before the storm and Before the Storm
45:17
and I think it was the Elegy Nolla, I
45:19
think it was that.
45:20
>> No, it was the actual novel where he
45:22
goes to help them. I It's the name is
45:25
escaping me.
45:26
>> War Crimes.
45:27
>> No, no, no, no. Much much later. It was
45:30
like before Shadowlands.
45:32
>> Oh, Shadows Rising.
45:34
>> Yeah, Shadows Rising. Thank you.
45:35
>> Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Um, there's just
45:37
that that moment where Yria, who should
45:40
know, is looking at him going, "Wait a
45:43
minute. What are you doing?"
45:45
>> And he doesn't like he doesn't he plays
45:48
it off and they continue on, but he he
45:51
has been shown to be able to use the
45:54
shadow the shadow priest aspect of his
45:57
character already. He's already been
45:59
shown to be able to touch the void. I
46:01
would not be surprised, especially after
46:03
what we saw happen to him in
46:05
Shadowlands, to see him learn to be able
46:08
to directly communicate with the void.
46:11
>> Yeah.
46:11
>> Um, if anybody could do it, I mean, I'm
46:15
just going to point out there's we know
46:16
one guy who learned how to do it
46:18
canonically. Um the the dark father
46:21
there from uh the last time we had the
46:24
void coming up during Cataclysm
46:26
actually.
46:28
>> Benedictus. Yeah. Arch priest Benedictus
46:30
was throwing the light around while he
46:32
was working directly for the void.
46:34
>> Yep.
46:35
>> So if
46:36
>> and they're trying to revive him right
46:37
now in Twilight Highlands as we speak.
46:40
>> So if he could do it, Anduin could do
46:42
it. And I I think they're also maybe
46:43
setting that up a little bit too because
46:45
in Blood Ties in the novel, a lot of
46:48
emphasis is put on Yria's not
46:51
necessarily mastery of the void, but
46:54
mastery of self in insulating herself
46:57
from sort of the more uh delletterious
47:01
effects of the void, right? She doesn't
47:04
hear the creeping doubt in the voices
47:06
anymore. She doesn't have that fear as
47:09
much anymore. still happens, but she
47:11
knows how to navigate it and deal with
47:13
it. Now, uh it's now something more of a
47:16
tool to her and more of a part of her
47:19
than something that she has to risk
47:21
taking control of her, which is why she
47:25
sort of understands the demon hunters as
47:28
the ways she does. They make this big
47:30
deal about like highlighting that
47:32
specifically. And I don't think that's
47:34
by accident. And I don't think that it's
47:36
necessarily dealing with her fight with
47:39
Zalot. I'm sure that's part of it. But
47:42
if you have a character like Anduin or
47:44
others that are able to touch the void,
47:47
but maybe don't have that mastery of
47:49
self, she becomes their guide. She
47:52
becomes their confident. And she already
47:55
knows Anduin and has an existing
47:57
relationship with him from years prior.
48:00
So you have this opportunity for Anduin
48:03
to sort of like level up his game and
48:05
understand the light has a place but
48:08
there's something here too and learning
48:10
how to control it without being consumed
48:12
by it and essentially keep the two from
48:14
mixing which I think is I mean not
48:17
mixing but like art fighting inside of
48:19
himself if that makes sense.
48:21
>> Yeah. You don't want, you know, it's
48:23
sort of like you what you see in like
48:25
other stories about like the idea of
48:28
having violence and peace coiling inside
48:31
you. You you don't want to mix them. You
48:34
want to control them. You want to use
48:36
them when they're necessary.
48:37
>> Yeah. It's a cap it's the Captain
48:39
America thing, right? Like his his
48:40
shield is not a symbol of just peace.
48:43
It's a symbol of war and peace, right?
48:45
He you fight when you have to fight and
48:48
you fight to preserve that peace. So
48:51
like and sometimes you can't have peace
48:53
without that fighting and Andowin's been
48:55
learning that lesson over the course of
48:56
years. I think that's more likely than
48:59
him dying. I think that him dying
49:02
doesn't serve the story necessarily in
49:04
any meaningful way that would not just
49:07
be a shock value. Uh and if that's the
49:10
case, I will have some very strongly
49:12
strong words to put in a physical letter
49:14
and mail to Chris Metson. Um like Eric,
49:17
go ahead if you have anything else to
49:18
add to that. I I just want to say this,
49:21
this triggered my memory of a
49:23
Hearthstone deck that I used to play, a
49:25
void form deck where you'd play as a
49:28
priest and be able to use void form and
49:30
just launch shadow damage, but you
49:34
started out the game as a light priest.
49:36
And I think void form Anduin is a really
49:38
fascinating concept to be able to have
49:40
him, you know, pick up on the void, you
49:44
know, interact with Ayria more and be
49:47
able to wield both. And we saw in Blood
49:49
Ties that Terallion and Yria were using
49:52
light and void out of sync and canceling
49:56
each other out. And so if he could
49:59
figure out how to cancel out the void
50:01
entities with light or to be able to use
50:03
the light and the void harmoniously, he
50:06
could become a very powerful uh
50:09
character even more than already.
50:12
>> All right, thank you very much for that
50:14
question, X Knight. And then we're going
50:15
to move on to one last one here before
50:18
we call it a day.
50:20
Uh, this one comes from Flobio. Uh, I
50:24
recently have been playing the 2014
50:26
version of Shadowgate, which is the
50:28
updated version of the classic 1989
50:30
point-and-click adventure of the same
50:32
name. Have you played it? I definitely
50:34
have, and I'm pretty sure everybody else
50:35
has at some point. Um, I noticed some
50:37
things that appear to have influenced
50:38
the Warcraft universe. Shadowgate
50:40
appears to me to have been influenced by
50:42
the Tolken universe in D and D at the
50:44
time. From a council of wizards that pro
50:46
protects the world of Shadowgate to a
50:48
knight named Uther. Always enjoy your
50:51
lore conversations. Keep up the great
50:52
work.
50:53
>> I have to jump in before Joe says
50:55
anything to say Uther comes from
50:56
Arthurian mythos.
50:58
>> Yeah, I was just going to say that
50:59
>> dad or in some versions Aurelius,
51:02
Uther's brother is Arthur's actual dad.
51:05
But either way, Uther Pendragon is not
51:08
from Dn D or Token. I cannot let this
51:12
stand.
51:13
>> Also, Uther Pendragon was son of
51:14
Constantine. Just going to throw that
51:16
out there.
51:17
>> As was Aurelius.
51:19
>> Aurelius was also Constant. Although,
51:21
no, they were actually the sons of
51:22
Constans, who was the son of
51:24
Constantine.
51:25
>> Yeah, I thought it was the other way
51:27
around. Either way,
51:27
>> no,
51:28
>> the family the family lineage goes back.
51:30
Constantine is in that line. Um
51:32
>> but but importantly there this is not
51:35
that's not Tolken and it's not D and D.
51:38
Uh although they do appear in D and D as
51:41
far back as the original deities and
51:42
demigods which I have right over there.
51:44
I don't know why I'm pointing. You can't
51:46
see me.
51:46
>> And also some of the original
51:48
lithographs of Uther Pen Dragon do seem
51:50
to be the actual information of Luther
51:52
uh the Lightbringer uh or Uther the
51:55
Lightbringer because uh yeah they very
51:57
very similar in character model and
51:58
design as far as the original lithograph
52:00
picture. Um, yeah, I was going to say we
52:03
talk about this a lot, but Warcraft and
52:06
the people who created the World of
52:08
Warcraft universe
52:09
>> in particular, it's it's a pastiche.
52:11
It's a an homage to so many different
52:15
things that influence them, right? when
52:18
they created the universe, it was
52:20
influences from D and D, influences from
52:21
the high fantasy novels that they read,
52:23
influences from the 1980s movies that
52:25
they grew up watching, uh, influences
52:28
from the '7s animation that they grew up
52:30
watching,
52:30
>> influencing by Manowar albums that they
52:33
listen to.
52:34
>> Yeah. Uh, all of these things play a
52:36
factor in it. And honestly, that's how
52:39
all of us operate, right? We don't, it's
52:41
not necessarily conscious thought. Uh,
52:44
but if you really break down, like if
52:45
you ever do creative writing or if you
52:47
ever do art, you can start breaking down
52:51
your influences if you take a step back
52:53
and look at it, right? Like I paint
52:56
minis and I talk about that a lot. My
52:58
influence to that is actually John
53:00
Blanch uh and the Blanchito style of of
53:03
miniature painting where it's very
53:05
realistic, very dirty, very grimy, but
53:08
not very high contrast. Uh, and I tend
53:11
to like that just I know that because
53:13
that's the art that I grew up wa like
53:15
learning, but I didn't consciously know
53:17
that until years ago. It's the same
53:19
thing when we when you run a D and D
53:21
game or you do any of this, you are
53:23
influenced by the things that you
53:24
consume consciously or subconsciously.
53:28
And the same is true for Warcraft.
53:30
Warcraft has elements of it that you'll
53:31
find that the Arththeran lore, you'll
53:33
find D and D, you'll find Tolkenesque
53:35
elements to it. You'll also find
53:36
influences straight from sci-fi writers,
53:39
right? You'll see influences from, you
53:41
know, Heinline. You'll s find finduh
53:44
influences from Frank Herbert. You'll
53:46
find influences from uh, you know, other
53:48
things such as uh,
53:50
>> Jack Kirby.
53:51
>> Yep. Jack Kirby. You you you'll see
53:53
influences from uh, HP Lovecraft. You'll
53:56
see all these things because these are
53:58
the things that the people that created
54:00
it consumed. And you see that moving
54:02
forward. You'll see that as new people
54:04
come in and have influence over it. It
54:06
influences the world through their
54:08
creative process. It's natural and it's
54:11
beautiful. So, yes, I'm sure they grew
54:12
up and they and during that time they
54:14
played Shadowgate like the rest of us
54:15
did. They also played Mist and Riven and
54:19
a bunch of the other point- and-click
54:20
adventures that a lot of us grew up
54:23
playing and a lot of us were influenced.
54:25
Um, and I think it's pretty unique
54:27
because, I shouldn't say unique, I think
54:29
it's pretty special because it makes
54:30
Warcraft part of what it is. a little
54:32
bit of everything that blossoms into its
54:34
own beautiful weird creation. So I think
54:38
>> yeah like even when you see the
54:40
influences um one of the interesting
54:42
things is how the influences bounce. Uh
54:45
one of my favorite books is uh Stephen
54:47
King's Don Macccabra. It's a book about
54:49
writing horror and writing fiction. And
54:52
he talks in it about how he wrote
54:54
Salem's Lot by basically taking Dracula,
54:59
considering it like a wall, like a giant
55:01
monolithic wall that this is the vampire
55:03
novel, and then thinking about his book
55:06
as a like a ball in his hand that he
55:08
would bounce off the wall to see where
55:10
it went. Like and there's scenes in the
55:12
book like when he they get to the
55:15
vampire house and they realize that
55:18
there's you know the stairs have been
55:20
cut off and a bunch of rats kill someone
55:22
that's taken from uh scene in Dracula.
55:26
And I feel like that's that's very
55:28
visible in World of Warcraft sometimes
55:30
like the night elves when the night
55:32
elves showed up because there had been
55:33
elves in WoW going back to before WoW
55:36
existed. Yep. The first Warcraft game
55:38
had elves in it mentioned and they
55:40
appear in the second game. But the night
55:42
elves in the third game in Warcraft 3
55:45
were very different and they were very
55:47
obviously inspired by but nothing like
55:50
the D.
55:51
>> Mhm.
55:52
>> From Dn D. Were they inspired by them?
55:54
Absolutely. I don't think anybody could
55:55
argue they weren't. But they're not even
55:59
they're not even a little like them.
56:00
Like they they're they're more elf than
56:03
elf. They're not like we're evil and
56:06
twisted. They're like, "No, all that
56:08
stuff you hear about nature stuff, we
56:09
are that. We're those guys. We are
56:12
living in the darkness of trees and
56:14
celebrating when a giant cat eats
56:16
something cuz that's nature and it's,
56:18
you know, blood and claw stage." And,
56:21
you know, we're totally into that. So,
56:23
there's just a lot of that to it. Uh,
56:25
and I think it's a very interesting part
56:27
of Warcraft is how these pieces as
56:29
you're throwing more and more stuff into
56:31
the pile, it changes other things and
56:34
they change each other and you get
56:36
wildly variant versions of things you
56:38
might see other places. But Shadowgate,
56:40
yeah, I could see the Shadowgate
56:41
influence. I could see like we could
56:43
list dozens of of video games that I
56:45
could think I see influence, not just
56:47
the stuff we've already been talking
56:48
about. Yeah, Warcraft has never been
56:50
subtle about it. I mean, upfront,
56:53
Warcraft is basically we wanted to do a
56:55
Warhammer game. They wouldn't give us
56:57
the license, so we did our own. It's
57:00
like, we don't need We have Warhammer at
57:01
home. The Warhammer they had at home is
57:03
Warcraft one. So, yeah. I I I feel like
57:06
there's just a
57:07
>> Yeah, it goes all the way down to the
57:08
little references, too, right? Like
57:10
there's Mario and Link characters all
57:12
the way back in original World of
57:14
Warcraft. There's like nods to Reservoir
57:17
Dogs and Infinity War. the old gods
57:20
obviously like being like a letter off
57:23
from Lovecraft's actual old gods in some
57:26
cases and then sometimes those threads
57:27
get picked up and they become like the
57:29
main thing that we're focused on in the
57:30
game for years which you know might have
57:33
been might have been written in to be
57:36
almost as much of a one-off as having a
57:38
Mario character in overalls in Angoro
57:41
Crater but that stuff gets picked up and
57:43
it's like wow Lovecraft heavily
57:45
influenced it is yeah everything
57:47
influences everything at this point in
57:49
time with so much so many decades of
57:53
easily accessible media at everyone's
57:55
consuming all the time. It's such a rich
57:58
interconnected tapestry that yes,
58:00
everything is influencing everything.
58:03
It's hard to pick out the specific
58:06
things, especially since everything that
58:09
comes before now was influenced by other
58:11
stuff. And you can still be influenced
58:13
by the stuff that was written in the
58:14
1930s because you could just go read it.
58:16
>> Yeah. And I mean, again, watch what
58:18
happens next because what's happening in
58:21
in Midnight influenced by a bunch of
58:24
stuff that you probably have seen, um,
58:26
not saying that it isn't great, uh,
58:28
because it is, but just look through it
58:31
through that lens. Look through it
58:32
through the lens of what what pop
58:34
culture or what things from the past
58:37
could have possibly influenced this. And
58:40
I think you're going to be surprised at
58:42
how much you'll be able to pull out of
58:44
it or see the references, too. a lot of
58:46
good stuff there. Uh, and a lot of stuff
58:48
that make again this beautiful Warcraft
58:52
universe that we all enjoy uh, even
58:54
better. But I think that's going to do
58:56
it for us today, friends. I do want to
58:57
thank you for joining us on this
58:59
wonderful episode of Lorewatch. And I
59:02
remind you that we are this is only
59:04
possible due to your generous
59:05
contributions at
59:06
patreon.com/blizzardwatch.
59:08
Your community support means that this
59:10
podcast site and community is able to
59:11
thrive and grow. Blizzard watch
59:13
supporters enjoy benefits like early
59:15
access to our podcast. Better chance of
59:17
having your question answered in our
59:18
podcast Q&A ads reset experience. I
59:20
would like to remind you that uh if you
59:24
can't support us through Patreon, we
59:27
understand times are tough. There are
59:28
other ways to support us. Uh you can go
59:31
ahead and share our content with your
59:33
friends and family or people that you
59:34
think might be interested. which I do
59:36
want to give a quick shout out to Rob uh
59:39
who is a one of our listeners who I
59:41
heard uh was pimping our episodes for
59:45
people in his circle. Uh so thank you
59:47
very much Rob for doing that but that
59:49
does matter right it so thank you for
59:51
you can do that you can share our
59:53
content you can like our content on the
59:55
platform that you're listening it to it
59:56
on uh you can leave comments on it tell
59:59
us you know just even one-word responses
1:00:01
like cool or really enjoyed it any of
1:00:04
that stuff really matters it helps serve
1:00:06
our content through the algorithm to
1:00:07
more people uh and that does help just
1:00:10
as much and then I do want to remind
1:00:12
everybody that if you do have questions
1:00:14
for this or any of our podcasts
1:00:16
Be sure to send those into podcast
1:00:19
blizzardwatch.com. Specify the show that
1:00:21
it is for as well as any special
1:00:22
pronunciation of your name. You can also
1:00:25
send us uh those messages on Discord. We
1:00:27
have the Q and podcast questions channel
1:00:29
set aside for everybody. Uh same rules
1:00:31
apply. But if you are that Patreon
1:00:33
subscriber, it's a little extra thank
1:00:35
you for helping us keep the lights on.
1:00:36
We have the patron Q and podcast
1:00:38
questions channel where we tend to look
1:00:40
there first. With that folks, we'll see
1:00:43
you next week.
#Soundtracks
#Computer & Video Games