Up next in 10
The very forces that underpin the World of Warcraft universe itself are the topic of this week's Lore Watch Podcast. We're all familiar with mana, from the earliest days of playing the first Mage that got absolutely destroyed by troggs outside Anvilmar. Anima is its newer, redder... cousin? How do these two things interact with each other? Are they related? Joe, Eric, and Matt take a deep dive across the leylines and into the anima pools, discussing not only the nuts and bolts of the Azeroth versions, but also the real-world inspiration for these concepts.
They also take a stab at some of the other forces in Azeroth we've come into contact with, like the Chi used by Monks. Or, maybe more like a staff than a stab.
If you want even more background story, we also have a guide to every Warcraft book in chronological order (for those of you who prefer reading that way): https://blizzardwatch.com/warcraft-books/
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0:04
[music]
0:12
Hello and welcome to Lore Watch, a round
0:14
table of free form discussion about lore
0:15
in your favorite media. I'm your host
0:17
Joe Perez, one of several lore focused
0:19
folks from Blizzard Watch. And I've got
0:21
two marvelous co-hosts with me today.
0:23
First, he's in a dark room and that may
0:26
just be normal or maybe because he has a
0:28
headache. It may be both. It's Matt
0:29
Rossy. How you doing, Matt?
0:31
>> Hi.
0:33
Things talk good. Move on. [gasps]
0:37
>> And with us as well with more coherent
0:40
sentences is Eric OD. How you doing,
0:42
Eric?
0:43
>> Joe, don't you think mages should have
0:45
been able to make smaller portals by
0:46
now? I mean, to have to have a whole
0:48
second room. They got the technology to
0:51
put portals to everywhere around the
0:52
universe. Can't you just make like a
0:54
little wall of all of them, and I can
0:56
just walk up and touch the one I need
0:57
from one place? Is that too much to ask?
1:00
>> I mean, probably. But then you get then
1:02
you get mages committing war crimes as a
1:04
result of that, I would think. Cuz like,
1:05
have you met mages? They're not exactly
1:08
the most stable. We could talk about the
1:09
NPCs in game that are like that. I'm
1:12
just looking at Khadgar as a prime
1:13
example. I
1:14
>> mean, I'm just looking at all the times
1:15
we had mages tell us they're going to
1:17
open a portal somewhere and we clicked
1:18
on it. We fell to our deaths.
1:21
>> Made it over to Ballering Crater. So,
1:23
>> hey. Hey, remember that remember that
1:24
time Jana Proudmore took an entire uh
1:26
fleet through a portal and decided they
1:28
were going to blow up an entire, you
1:30
know, city? That's a thing. Yep. Imagine
1:34
what they would do if there was very
1:35
small ones that you could Anyway, we're
1:37
not going to be talking about mages,
1:38
although if it comes up in questions,
1:40
which this next the first question might
1:42
actually have that come up. Uh we'll
1:44
we'll get there, but we're going to be
1:46
answering more of your questions. Our
1:48
wonderful listeners at home do want to
1:50
remind you that if you have questions
1:51
for this or any of our podcasts, want
1:54
you to go ahead and be sure to send
1:55
those in podcastwatch.com.
1:57
Specify the show that it is for in the
1:59
subject line as well as any special
2:00
pronunciation of your name. If you don't
2:02
want to hit us up on email, you can go
2:04
on Discord. We have the Q and Podcast
2:06
questions channel set aside open for
2:08
everybody. Same rules apply. Just, you
2:11
know, make sure you you fill in all the
2:12
the little blanks there. If you are a
2:14
Patreon subscriber, we have the Patreon
2:16
Q and podcast questions channel. We set
2:18
that aside as a special way of saying
2:20
thank you because we go there and look
2:22
first for any questions that you might
2:23
send our way. But our first one comes up
2:26
from Razer Bug or as I like to often
2:29
refer to them, Razerberg, because for
2:31
whatever reason in my brain, Razer Bug
2:34
and Dinkleberg from the Fairy Odd
2:36
Parents or Fairly Odd Parents have just
2:38
coingled. So, you're welcome. Question
2:41
four or quick one for the lore watchers.
2:43
It's never quick. It's never quick.
2:45
>> I got to I'm sorry. I got to stop you
2:47
for a second. To me, it's always it's
2:49
me, Razerberg,
2:51
>> and he's quacking his claws
2:53
>> like Zoidberg. That's fair.
2:54
>> Yeah, that's who he is to me. He's He's
2:56
like He's our little [laughter] Zenberg.
2:59
>> Hopefully that entertains you.
3:00
Eventually, you'll have a head cannon
3:02
with Eric as well. But your question
3:04
here is, is there a direct or any
3:06
connection between mana and bonus? If
3:10
so, what does that mean for mana potions
3:12
drinking anything? Bel blood elf mana
3:15
addiction interactions with fell divine
3:17
order magic etc.
3:20
I don't think we've ever had any direct
3:21
ties between mana and there is a
3:25
distinct resonance I would think between
3:27
them at least in the way that they're
3:29
described. Mana seems to be a finite
3:31
pool uh of power that you have available
3:33
to you that you can then refresh over
3:35
time. And at least the way that it's
3:38
portrayed in the Shadowlands, can be
3:40
used in much the same way. Even actually
3:42
outside of the Shadowlands, now that I'm
3:43
thinking about it, the MOU are capable
3:45
of doing it as well and using it to fuel
3:47
rituals, powers, uh, and things like
3:49
that, but it it operates in a much the
3:52
same way. But they've never distinctly
3:55
married the two. And I've seen some
3:58
things out there that have people have
4:00
posited that is the distilled version of
4:04
like all your life essence as and well
4:06
essence essentially and then mana is you
4:09
tapping into your own reserves before
4:12
they are distilled down. So basically
4:15
like the raw unfiltered un unprocessed
4:19
part of power that we all carry around
4:21
with us. And there's a certain level
4:24
that maybe that is the case, but there's
4:26
never been anything that has explicitly
4:29
linked the two. At least not that I can
4:30
think of. Can either of you think of
4:32
anything or remember anything that maybe
4:35
uh marries the two in any way?
4:38
They're just really like similar
4:40
concepts, but I don't know that I can
4:43
remember or think of anything or have
4:45
any insight into like a connection that
4:47
would explain it because, you know, it's
4:49
one of those mana is one of those things
4:51
that's been in video games and and
4:55
fantasy of all kinds for much longer
4:57
than World of Warcraft. So, I it's it's
5:01
just, you know, they they come out with
5:04
their cosmology and their
5:07
energy forces, the cosmic forces, and
5:10
they have to fit different things into
5:12
it as they come up with new ideas. And
5:14
so, what is mana? And it's like, well,
5:16
mana is what casters use to cast spells.
5:18
How's that going to fit in? And ita,
5:23
it's it's kind of similar like your mana
5:25
recharge. you have like a mana battery,
5:27
like you're you you have mana and then
5:29
you can use it all up. And when you're
5:30
out of mana, it's like, "Sorry, I guess
5:32
the party's going to wipe because I
5:35
can't cast any more fireballs. I don't
5:37
have enough mana." And you build up with
5:40
your experiences over time. Like what we
5:43
hear is that your life, living beings
5:47
kind of build up and produce with their
5:49
lived experiences, and those with more
5:51
experiences produce more. So, when I was
5:54
just a guy that played World of Warcraft
5:56
and listened to Lore Watch, I was
5:58
producing some. And then I joined Lore
6:00
Watch and I get to talk to you guys. I
6:01
I'm living a more rich experience in
6:04
this respect. I'm producing more in this
6:06
way if if I was a character in World of
6:09
Warcraft. So, it's I can kind of see how
6:12
they're related a little bit. But as far
6:15
as interactions,
6:18
um, I I I thought I had some kind of I
6:21
got like halfway through writing down
6:23
some notes and insights and had a good
6:25
thought about this because you can have
6:29
you can use mana to cast all kinds of
6:31
spells, right? You can use mana to cast
6:34
elemental spells and fell and arcane and
6:38
and all these things. And so it's sort
6:40
of like a uh yeah, you can definitely
6:44
have interactions with magic. It's not
6:46
it's not like mana is used to cast
6:48
arcane spells and then if you're going
6:51
to cast fell spells, you need to use
6:52
some other resource. Like as far as we
6:54
know, it's just mana.
6:56
So
6:57
>> well, I mean technically we've seen that
6:59
souls souls can fuel fell. But go ahead,
7:01
Matt.
7:02
>> Warlocks make soul stones.
7:05
>> They do. The soul stones
7:08
>> can be used in replace of of health.
7:14
They they literally turn mana into
7:16
health. They turn it into an animating
7:20
force. Going to put that one out there
7:22
first and then I'm going to throw in a
7:23
couple others and then I'll tie it up.
7:26
We know
7:28
for a fact that shamans have always
7:32
spoken of five elements.
7:35
>> Yep. Even though they only had the
7:37
ability to channel four of them, they
7:38
always talked about five.
7:40
>> Well, they technically channel the fifth
7:43
because they summon it.
7:45
>> Yeah, but they don't they didn't have a
7:46
totem for a long time. Just let me keep
7:48
going here.
7:49
>> Sure.
7:49
>> They they had the five and the fifth was
7:52
spirit. And we know that spirit
7:56
is something that we've seen cosmic
7:58
level entities deal with. Um, Agramar
8:02
came to Dranor in its distant past and
8:05
noticed that without a world soul to
8:09
absorb the spirit energy and he's very
8:12
specific that it was the it's the spirit
8:15
energy that the the world soul would be
8:17
absorbing. It's not doing so. And as a
8:21
result, the spirit energy is being
8:23
leeched into the plant life and creating
8:26
outofc control riotous plant growth that
8:29
is going to destroy this planet. It's
8:31
going to just choke all the life out of
8:33
it. There's nothing preventing it from
8:35
doing so. Whereas in a world like
8:37
Azeroth, there's the world soul is
8:40
draining the even though it means that
8:43
the elementals are fighting on that
8:45
planet, the planet isn't getting
8:47
overwhelmed by its plant life. So he
8:49
decides to create something that will do
8:52
that, that will stop the plant life from
8:54
choking the planet out. In both that
8:58
case and the case of the mou, we see
9:00
Titan creations or Titan in one case
9:04
dealing with this spirit energy. The
9:08
spirit energy is linked to by what the
9:13
mou call it. Because the MOU, who again,
9:16
they're Titan creations, they call it,
9:20
right? They have animal golems, they
9:22
have constructs, and they usema to
9:26
transform living things.
9:29
Now,
9:30
why are the Mou using directly? Why
9:33
aren't they just using mana to do
9:35
things? because I think it's simp it's
9:38
basically the implication is that mana
9:42
is toma what a refined fuel is to the
9:46
base fuel
9:49
like the universe when titans first come
9:51
into existence they supposedly come into
9:54
existence as giant astral eddies that
9:58
have to be swallowed up by a planet in
10:00
order to preserve them as they develop
10:04
astral energy is mana. We've known this
10:08
forever. The astral plane is where mana
10:10
comes from. It is an orderly
10:14
progression. Fell is chaotic and it
10:17
comes from the destruction of other
10:18
things, but it's still basically it's
10:21
like the inverse. All of these cosmic
10:23
forces like shadow magic, all of it, all
10:26
of it comes from. It's all versions of
10:30
why you can cast spells with mana.
10:34
And it doesn't matter if you're a druid
10:35
doing na nature stuff or a paladin. Like
10:38
paladins don't use mana much anymore,
10:40
but they used to have to chug potions
10:41
for a while. Hunters had to chug potions
10:43
and they're like, "Nope, we're giving
10:44
that up. We're just going to get really
10:45
intense about things."
10:49
I think it's basically a deep
10:51
implication and it's almost stated a few
10:54
times. It's never specifically said,
10:56
"Yeah, mana is a kind of." I think mana
10:59
is
11:01
essentially like the most raw form of
11:04
that you could extract. It's life force,
11:06
but it's not thema is so much more
11:09
complicated because it has the ability
11:11
to do so many other things. Mana mirrors
11:14
it, but is not the mature version for
11:17
lack of a better word. Mature is not the
11:18
right word. Properly distilled is not
11:20
the right word, but we don't have a
11:22
right word for this. I think you're
11:25
pretty much on on point, Eric, when
11:26
you're saying that is when you go
11:29
through a life because we keep kind of
11:33
skating the fact that we don't know why
11:37
the Shadowlands is necessary. Why doesma
11:40
have to be recycled there? Why does it
11:42
have to be channeled back into the
11:44
world? Why is there resurrection for
11:46
those spirits that are deemed that they
11:48
should be sent back? I mean, that's the
11:50
entire thing Ardan wield is about. We
11:53
don't know. We know pieces. We do not
11:55
know the full story of what the First
11:57
Ones are up to. But I think the very
11:59
fact that they've built it all in such a
12:03
way to to require all this, it it
12:06
reminds me very much of the concept of
12:09
in order to know itself, the universe
12:11
has to have differentiation. There have
12:13
to be variations. In order for Anu to be
12:17
anything other than just nothing, it had
12:20
to rip away all the the aspects of
12:22
itself that made up Tathamett. I know
12:24
I'm going to Diablo here, but I you
12:26
know, trust me, follow me on this a
12:27
little bit. With Azeroth,
12:31
mana is like the thing inside Azeroth
12:35
that goes through a process of life. It
12:39
is it's the thing that you live, you
12:42
grow, and then when you're at your peak,
12:44
the when you die and you go to the
12:47
Shadowlands, the is harvested without
12:50
destroying your soul. Like your soul
12:53
keeps existing after they take thema
12:55
away. They can remove your memories if
12:57
they want to. We see that with the
12:59
kerrion, but they don't have to. And
13:02
there's plenty of one of the types of of
13:06
animma generators we see are the ones in
13:11
I can't remember his name. Denathrius's
13:13
place there.
13:16
>> What?
13:17
>> No, the actual zone.
13:19
>> Revend.
13:19
>> Revendrath. Yeah. When you go to
13:21
Revendrath, you see like they even talk
13:22
about the the old reliables
13:25
>> who are the ones who can keep generating
13:27
because they won't let go. They won't
13:29
let go of of themselves. And it's very
13:32
clear that is related to the self.
13:36
It's you can keep making it
13:40
in perpetuity as long as you don't let
13:43
go. You don't like let whatever it is
13:46
that obsessed you in life that driven
13:48
you, drove you in life, if you don't let
13:49
go of it, you can keep making. Gash they
13:52
had locked up in the basement because he
13:54
was one of the best ones they ever had.
13:57
And I I think mana is like the
14:00
unformatted, unprocessed stuff of
14:03
existence. And is the formatted lived
14:08
experience
14:09
perfected again. Distilled is the only
14:12
is the word that keeps coming up in my
14:13
head version of it. And as a result,
14:17
when goes back, we we've talked before
14:19
about how they it seems like the first
14:21
ones intended to be the building blocks
14:23
of existence. And if it's not generated
14:27
like by cosmic entities, it's generated
14:30
by life. Living things living generates.
14:35
So it's like mana helps the universe be
14:37
living and life is the thing you have to
14:40
add. It's the process that shapes mana
14:43
into
14:45
if that makes sense. I I'm kind of some
14:48
of this is me spitballing, but you see
14:49
enough of it in game where spirit is
14:53
this thing that is more than just, hey,
14:56
it's a spirit. It's this power that
14:59
correlates so well with that it seems
15:01
like it's almost impossible for it not
15:03
to be there.
15:05
>> I'd buy that. Almost like life, like any
15:08
sort of life is a way to enrich man
15:11
intoma and that
15:13
>> kind of like a breeder reactor.
15:14
>> Yeah. Like you can't you can't do much
15:16
with mana, but is what we're looking
15:19
for. And there's ways to get it. But the
15:21
best way is to just pluck living things
15:24
onto have them interact with each other
15:27
and build up that and then harvest it
15:30
with the Shadowlands being
15:33
set up for something. Created for what?
15:36
Like Yeah. you like you were saying, we
15:38
don't know why it's there, but it almost
15:40
seems like it's a way to take an
15:44
unordered system of living things
15:47
building up and then having it leak off
15:49
and go wherever to having it be
15:51
extremely ordered and taken and
15:53
organized and soul sent back and and
15:57
efficiencies found and optimization
16:00
routes planned for making the most. It's
16:03
interesting
16:05
>> the the spin-off of that I guess or at
16:08
least another avenue to consider is that
16:12
mana may not be the only thing that is
16:15
in that family then right
16:18
>> no I would think that probably almost
16:19
everything that generates that kind of
16:21
force would be
16:22
>> rage focus
16:25
all that stuff sort of would fall kind
16:26
of under that at least in that capacity
16:29
because essentially
16:30
>> yeah because isn't rage let's let's
16:31
actually go with this for a second cuz
16:33
and I told people at the beginning of
16:34
the show that I would probably be
16:35
completely out of it unable to talk and
16:37
now here I am.
16:37
>> I knew better
16:39
>> the thing about like all these different
16:41
things and we'll use rage as an example
16:42
but focus and other things count too
16:45
>> energy
16:46
>> it still directly affects reality in
16:49
ways that are impossible
16:51
like you cannot yell so loud that people
16:54
can run faster. You you can't yell and
16:58
be temporarily invulnerable to damage,
17:02
but you can like when a when a druid
17:05
turns into a bear and is using bear
17:07
abilities that cause rage,
17:10
you know, that's it. These are
17:12
impossibilities. You can't just be so
17:14
mad that your claws hit further. Except
17:17
yeah, you you can. Well, I mean energy
17:20
as an example, I can I am so utterly
17:23
committed that I can just become almost
17:26
invisible.
17:27
>> Well, think think about it even further,
17:29
right? Like let's let's take this even a
17:31
step further. Like we have a real world
17:34
equivalent directly in game. Chi monks
17:38
useqi to execute
17:41
all of their abilities, right? Um at
17:44
least to a certain point. Um, I believe
17:46
miswavers might be the exception. I
17:49
don't remember. I haven't played a
17:50
miswever in forever. I apologize folks.
17:52
>> I mean, my miswaver did use chi. It's
17:53
just not that often.
17:54
>> But that might have been my my question
17:56
is like was that years ago or like
17:58
recently cuz I don't know. They've
18:00
changed a lot of stuff with the classes.
18:01
Butqi, however, exists, right? And the
18:04
real world belief is that chi is
18:07
essentially your essence, right? It's
18:09
the flow of energy through you and you
18:13
focusing that and moving your chi around
18:16
is thought to do things like make you
18:18
healthier or, you know, help you heal
18:21
faster from wounds or allow you to do
18:24
superhuman feats. Uh, depending on what,
18:28
you know, particular sect of martial
18:29
arts you adhere to or or call upon in
18:33
your definition of chi. And we see monks
18:35
in game doing that exact same thing.
18:38
Combo points are combo points are also
18:40
like a weird one. Go ahead.
18:42
>> I was going to say that gives you since
18:43
you mentioned she there is no reason not
18:47
to assume she basically meets all
18:50
>> Yeah.
18:50
>> the conditions forma. It does not for
18:53
mana or any other. It literally is. It
18:56
seems like it is spirit. It is your
18:59
spirit and it's also connected to the
19:02
spirit of things around you. And I don't
19:05
know if you were going to mention this,
19:06
but Azeroth has lay lines.
19:08
>> Yep. I was we were
19:09
>> through those lay lines,
19:11
power flows, but it's never I mean, for
19:14
all that it's obviously seen, disrupting
19:17
it can disrupt abilities, immortal
19:19
abilities to use mana.
19:22
It's not mana
19:24
because it affects other things. And
19:27
here's the question here. Is it possible
19:30
that disrupting lay lines disrupts
19:32
arcane spell casting
19:34
>> because we know it does mana, you know,
19:37
but is it the reason it does so is
19:38
because mana is another person filtering
19:41
off the essence of the world through
19:45
themselves.
19:48
Like essentially you can charge your own
19:50
generation system by using this.
19:53
I often had a theory a thought about
19:55
this and I I don't know there's nothing
19:59
that supports this. There's absolutely
20:01
nothing that supports this but it's been
20:03
an idol thought of mine regarding lay
20:05
lines and mana since we got to Northend.
20:08
And the idea that we know that pulling
20:10
the lay lines disrupts access to mana or
20:14
at least is very heavily believed to do
20:16
so. The thing we don't know is if the
20:18
lay lines are naturally occurring or if
20:21
they are things that were put there by
20:23
the Titans as a result of all the Titan
20:25
facilities getting shoved into the
20:26
surface of Azeroth. Because every time
20:30
we see a nexus point of Lelay lines is
20:34
one of two things that are there. A very
20:37
creepy castle made of magic that's
20:39
moving backwards through time
20:42
or a Titan facility.
20:44
Right? Like I don't think we like and I
20:47
I I'll argue that when we got to the eye
20:50
it was a nex in and literally the nexus
20:53
that was because they ripped the lay
20:55
lines there right they literally clawed
20:59
them back pun intended. So the question
21:02
is, is mana even a construct or a
21:05
natural occurrence, or is it something
21:07
that was essentially the Titans
21:11
rechaning that lifeblood back into the
21:13
like a useful network or cage or
21:16
something because that's what they did.
21:19
You see a bleeding Azeroth. What is what
21:21
is Azerite? What is what is all that
21:23
stuff? It's magical essence. It's just
21:26
another form of at a much grander scale.
21:29
We kind of know that because of what
21:31
happened with the Argus when we shoved
21:34
him into the box and threw him into the
21:35
Shadowlands, right?
21:36
>> Or for the end of the Shadowlands last
21:39
encounter where you go back to Azeroth
21:41
and you can even there's an even a thing
21:44
that's roughly similar to the heart of
21:45
Azeroth that's being used to channel the
21:48
power out of that place and into Zerith
21:51
or Zerith Mortise so that the jailer can
21:54
use it. He's trying to basically back
21:57
backdoor his way into physical reality
21:59
using all that power that's collecting
22:01
in that receptor which he didn't build.
22:06
And the Lich King didn't build it. The
22:09
Lich King built a giant engine on top of
22:11
it, but he didn't build that.
22:13
>> Yeah.
22:14
>> That place was there.
22:16
>> So like
22:17
>> and that's go. Okay. I just want to say
22:20
to me it basically feels like when we
22:23
say mana versus anima it's like there's
22:27
like a a vin diagram
22:29
and if you drewa first then you draw
22:32
other circles inside thema circle they'd
22:35
be completely in it like we talked about
22:39
chi or or focus or energy or rage or
22:44
mana. These are all sub things of this
22:48
life force. Yeah. It's the way magic and
22:52
and willpower affect reality through
22:56
their own existence.
22:57
>> Yeah. And you can take that even a step
22:58
further with some of the other resources
23:00
too, like runic power for death knights,
23:03
right? It's domination magic
23:05
essentially. And what is domination
23:06
magic doing?
23:07
>> To control Yeah. different way to
23:09
control power to control reality around
23:11
you. Fury from demon hunters is
23:13
literally this perfect intersection of
23:16
the fell energy of the demon that
23:17
they've consumed and their own will and
23:20
essentially drawing on the life essence
23:22
of something else channeling it through
23:24
them to power their abilities. Right.
23:28
Like it's it's very interesting to see
23:31
that. Eric, I saw you light up a couple
23:32
times. Yeah, it's we're sounds like
23:34
we're kind of talking about all this
23:36
stuff just being flavors of the same
23:38
idea that it's all just, you know, lead
23:43
and gold. I'm trying to turn one into
23:45
the other and it's like, well, what do
23:46
you mean? They're the same thing.
23:47
They're just protons and neutrons and
23:48
with some electrons in there. They're
23:50
they're all built out of the same thing.
23:51
It's just arrange different and they act
23:53
different, but like essentially they're
23:54
the same thing.
23:55
>> Yeah. Even Maestrom fits that bill,
23:57
right? Maelstrom is essentially the
23:58
capturing of the uh entropic forces uh
24:02
that are unleashed by unleashing
24:04
elemental forces, right? And elemental
24:07
forces are made from spirit that was
24:09
consumed from the world soul of Azeroth
24:12
and that spirit is essentially. So like
24:15
even Maelstrom fits that bill. Like it's
24:18
it's it's interesting that it is just
24:20
sort of all flavors of the same type of
24:22
lollipop, right? I find that very very
24:25
interesting. the in in taking it even
24:26
like step further and going even geekier
24:29
with it which I know that some of you
24:32
will be very happy about. The wordma is
24:35
literally an old Latin word and it
24:38
literally has the its roots in the word
24:41
that was used to describe breath, wind
24:43
and soul like all of them. All of them.
24:47
>> Yeah. The reason there's also the fact
24:49
that words like inspiration literally
24:51
mean to draw in a breath.
24:53
>> Yes. When you say I'm divinely inspired,
24:55
it means to draw on a breath. So there's
24:57
that essence of it being the first
24:59
breath you take, the life you start and
25:02
then roll through the rest of your life.
25:04
You keep breathing in and out. You keep
25:07
generating more spirit because you are
25:09
in you're literally inspiring yourself
25:11
with every breath you take. though.
25:13
>> Yeah, there's one thing
25:14
>> I was going to say. And on the other
25:16
side of that coin, we can go back to the
25:18
roots of mana, which you would think is
25:21
a fantasy like novel term.
25:23
>> No, isn't it?
25:25
>> It is. It's Polynesian and it has uh
25:27
roots across Mayori, Tongen, other
25:30
Pacific Islander heritages. Um, you can
25:34
go back and and find this charted
25:35
generations and generations and
25:37
generations ago. And it was used as a
25:40
descriptor for uh essentially the the
25:44
power or spiritual influence that tied
25:47
everything together. And I mean
25:49
everything, people, objects, places,
25:52
animals, plants, like it's this big
25:55
connecting web of life energy that
25:57
everything shares. And that I mean the
26:01
concept of mana has existed for eons at
26:04
this point, right? which is very very
26:08
very very
26:10
cool when you think about it. And then
26:12
taking that back to it, while the game
26:14
may not explicitly link these two
26:16
together, real world kind of does
26:19
because again, these are not these are
26:22
not new words. These are not made up
26:25
words. They exist. They have an
26:27
entomology. They have an origin. And
26:31
yeah, like it all kind of means the same
26:33
thing. And getting into the second part
26:36
of your question because I think there's
26:38
there's also stuff to be had here where
26:40
you ask what does it mean for mana
26:42
potion or drinking of anything of that
26:44
nature. This includes things like
26:46
thistle tea or the chi brew or uh health
26:51
potions, anything like that.
26:53
>> Your own blood because that's what
26:54
that's what rage is
26:56
>> kind of face.
26:57
>> You're just sucking your blood back up
26:58
into you. um your blood elf mana
27:01
addictions, your interactions with the
27:02
fell and the divine, the order and all
27:04
that stuff. If you consider that mana
27:07
and are ostensibly
27:09
part of the same sphere,
27:12
then this becomes even more I I want to
27:15
say logical. So, let's let's take mana
27:19
potions as sort of like the lowhanging
27:21
fruit on this this this pyramid of of
27:23
ideas, right? Um it's real simple.
27:26
You're you how is a mana potion made?
27:29
You take plants and combine them through
27:31
alchemy to produce an elixir. You down
27:34
the elixir. You top off your mana.
27:37
You're essentially draining the life
27:38
force from something else in order to
27:41
fuel your power. You are committing
27:43
necromancy even if it is not considered
27:45
or called necromancy. UC
27:50
game is often considered the you know
27:52
magic using magic to affect the state of
27:55
life and death. But in a real way, all
27:58
magic in World of Warcraft is s you
28:02
could consider it necroantic
28:04
because it is based on life energy.
28:07
>> Yeah.
28:08
>> It's based on living things. Living
28:10
things make it. Living things
28:12
complicated. The living things are the
28:14
reason it is got so much depth and
28:17
flavor to it. Because before the
28:19
creation of Azeroth and the world, the
28:21
universe Azeroth exists in everything
28:24
was nothing. And then the first ones
28:26
show up and suddenly there's variety and
28:29
there's other cosmic realms and there's
28:32
there's a place that isn't just one
28:34
thing.
28:37
And that's [snorts] that's the whole
28:39
ballgame in terms of what really is.
28:42
Enma is essentially the power source of
28:45
possibility.
28:47
And without it, you've got nothing.
28:50
Literally, you've got nothing. That's
28:51
all you will have. Yeah. In order to
28:54
have something, you have to have more
28:56
than one thing.
28:59
>> I think then it also goes to reason that
29:02
again the next section of it where we
29:03
talk about and I don't think you just
29:05
talk about just blood elf mana
29:07
addiction. You have to talk about the
29:10
dependency of the night. Yeah. as well
29:13
as what we've seen from others uh such
29:15
as the Jai when they were cut off from
29:18
their source of power in life
29:19
essentially uh and became the broken
29:23
you know there there's
29:24
>> and we now we now know that there's that
29:25
new group that were basically la lost
29:28
when the exodar took off who ended up
29:32
creating a whole new society and and
29:35
making deals with everybody.
29:36
>> Yeah. And they're war they're warlocks
29:38
essentially, but they didn't just demons
29:40
they're talking to. They're making deals
29:42
with spirits. They're making deals with
29:43
elementals. They're making deals with
29:45
like, you know, entities you might
29:46
consider angelic. Like they they're
29:49
going around making deals. They are like
29:51
in a weird sort of way, they are the
29:53
most shamanic necromancers you're ever
29:56
going to meet. Shamanic warlocks. And in
29:59
of itself, that shows you how we've
30:01
always kind of known that warlocks and
30:03
shamans weren't that different.
30:06
>> No. I mean, That's been apparent for a
30:07
while. Yeah,
30:08
>> that's why Guldon worked because he
30:10
basically just segueed in. He just kind
30:12
of sached in and said, "Oh, okay. I'm
30:14
going to be a necromancer now." It's
30:15
like you're just doing the shaman stuff
30:16
with dead things. It's basically the
30:19
same thing.
30:20
>> And trunchons. Don't forget trunions.
30:21
But no, but like the the the mana
30:23
addiction, power addiction, fell
30:25
addiction, all the stuff makes sense for
30:28
elves and elf like races. And we've
30:31
talked about this on the podcast before.
30:34
Elves were so used to having an
30:38
abundance of ambient arcane power to tap
30:40
into
30:42
that I don't want to say that their own
30:44
growth was stunted, but it's one of
30:46
those things where if you are in an
30:48
oxygen-rich environment, you don't think
30:50
about breathing. The minute it gets cut
30:52
off, all you can think about is
30:54
breathing. You have a finite like if you
30:57
get trapped in a vault, you have a
30:59
finite amount of of air essentially,
31:02
right? before there's no more left. Your
31:05
mana andma kind of [snorts] operate in a
31:08
similar way. And if you're so used to
31:11
doing these really grand workings,
31:13
right? And they were, all of their
31:16
cities were magical. All of the things
31:19
around them, the things that protected
31:21
them were magical. Going into Silver
31:24
Moon City, all of the constructs were
31:28
magical in nature because they were used
31:30
to drawing on a power source outside of
31:32
themselves. Take that power source away.
31:36
Now they're only using their own inner
31:39
reserves
31:40
and they're still trying to do those big
31:42
workings. They're still trying to make
31:45
an army or legion of robots or automaton
31:48
to to to help defend them. They're still
31:52
raising buildings that are floating in
31:54
midair or at least trying to. They don't
31:58
understand essentially their own
32:00
limitations because they've never had to
32:01
consider it. And so they burn their
32:04
reserves
32:06
and they need more. They need to fill
32:08
the hole, essentially fill the void. So
32:11
that addiction be it becomes a little
32:13
more understanding when you realize that
32:15
they're essentially burning themselves
32:17
out from the inside just existing.
32:21
>> You know what? Some of this would be
32:23
spoilery, but it does tie back to the
32:25
stuff we've learned about the origins of
32:28
trolls and elves in the last patch.
32:31
>> It also comes with the the stuff that we
32:32
learned about the origin of
32:35
>> Yeah. And one of the things to consider
32:37
is that trolls would be what you get
32:40
when you grow up without any access.
32:43
Just the bare minimum you need to live
32:46
for oxygen. That's all you get.
32:48
Everything else you have to bargain.
32:49
That's why they have shaman. And you had
32:52
to bargain and make deals. And then one
32:55
day some of them found a god. And that
32:59
god was purema.
33:03
and they could just talk to it and it
33:06
could give them power.
33:07
>> And not only that, even after the god
33:09
was left, the leftover energy around it
33:11
was still enough to to fuel it, right?
33:13
>> And and then of course in addition to
33:15
that, there's this wound on the surface
33:17
of the planet that's been there since
33:20
the Titans left. And that wound, even
33:23
though it's having its power channeled
33:25
back in on itself to try and close it,
33:27
it's just fountaining power. It's
33:30
fountaining life power because that's
33:33
what it is. It's literally like a
33:35
gushing wound that they're basically
33:37
trying to catch the blood and put it
33:38
back in, but it's always leaking because
33:41
there's just so much of it coming out at
33:43
any moment and you're right on the shore
33:45
of it and it literally changes you.
33:48
Yeah, I was going to say that we you
33:51
talked about, you know, a lack of
33:52
oxygen, meaning you start to breathe
33:54
faster and different oxygen levels
33:57
affecting you on the scale of minutes or
33:58
an hour. But what happens to a
34:01
population when the oxygen level changes
34:04
over a really long time, over many
34:06
generations, they evolve. And that's
34:08
what we see when you have the precursors
34:12
of elves living near the Well of
34:16
Eternity. it they they change. They
34:20
become something different. It's not
34:22
just uh you know becoming addicted and
34:26
needing more. It's not an acute thing.
34:29
It's a ongoing change.
34:32
>> Yeah. You know in the way what what you
34:34
guys have me thinking
34:36
>> I'm starting to compare the various
34:38
magical dependencies on nitrogen
34:40
narcosis.
34:42
>> It's not dissimilar.
34:44
>> Yeah. like you instead you're
34:46
>> Would you like to explain that a
34:47
baseline of that? Yeah.
34:48
>> Oh yeah. Basically what nitrogen
34:49
narcosis is is as you go down into the
34:52
depths and you have canned oxygen that
34:55
you're using to breathe unless it's a
34:57
very specific type that has to be
34:59
developed. Usually they just use
35:01
compressed air. You're just literally
35:03
bringing air in a tank and breathing it.
35:05
Air has nitrogen in it. And when you are
35:10
coming up and the pressure variation
35:13
changes,
35:14
your cells cannot do anything with the
35:17
nitrogen.
35:18
And as a result, you get what they call
35:20
nitrogen narcosis or the bends. Your
35:23
your body is accumulating this massive
35:26
amount of nitrogen that it cannot deal
35:27
with and there's nothing it can do but
35:31
hurt you with it. That's why a lot of
35:34
times in order to prevent it, they bring
35:35
you up slowly. If they bring you up
35:38
slowly, your body's own natural defenses
35:40
against nitrogen, take care of it and
35:43
you're fine as long as it's done slowly
35:47
enough. But your body can't always
35:51
fight nitrogen at the level would be
35:54
necessary. You and I walking around on
35:56
the street all day don't have a problem
35:58
with it. Nitrogen comes in our lungs, we
36:00
use the oxygen, and we spit the nitrogen
36:03
all back out. Um, dinosaurs and other
36:06
arcosaurs, including modern alligators
36:08
and crocodiles and birds, have what's
36:10
called a flow through system.
36:12
And the flow through system means that
36:14
they never stop. They don't go.
36:17
[sighs and panting]
36:18
They take a breath and store that breath
36:21
inside of their their air sacks and they
36:23
take another breath and the first breath
36:26
is cycled through and stuff is removed
36:28
from it. And the reason that that's
36:30
that's important to this is I believe
36:32
that's what we're looking at with people
36:34
like night elves, blood elves,
36:37
nightightorn, anybody who has that kind
36:39
of magical addiction. It's they have a
36:42
flowth through system, but the flow can
36:45
only do so much against the sudden
36:48
overwhelming buildup and then sudden
36:51
overwhelming loss. It's like it's like
36:53
you have both amount of oxygen level and
36:55
a pressure level and they're the same
36:58
thing.
36:59
So when you are not surrounded in the
37:03
kind of mana you're accustomed to, you
37:05
lose pressure as well as oxygen and that
37:10
causes the stuff in your body that isn't
37:13
it's byproduct. It all builds up. You're
37:16
you're straining your body continuously.
37:18
Using magic is not easy. It's hard. It's
37:22
work. There's a reason that wizards, you
37:25
know, constantly talk about the, you
37:27
know, I tried but I just couldn't hold
37:29
it because there's effort. You have to
37:32
fight to get this to do what you want.
37:35
And once if you're trying to do
37:38
everything you used to do when you were
37:39
right on the shores of this giant magic
37:42
fountain that just sprayed magic into
37:44
the air, but now you live over here and
37:46
you don't have one of those anymore, you
37:49
have to touch onto your own reserves or
37:53
do something else. Like for instance,
37:55
you know, the way warlocks work where
37:57
they tap into fel, that's what they use
38:00
to compensate. And fell isn't exactly
38:03
the same thing. It's kind of like trying
38:05
to run your car on the wrong kind of
38:07
gasoline. It'll work, but it's not going
38:09
to be pretty. Like, don't put diesel
38:12
fuel in your normal car if you want your
38:14
car to run very long.
38:16
>> And another scale, too. It's kind of
38:18
what the light forged are doing as well,
38:20
right?
38:20
>> Yeah. They're literally replacing life
38:22
with light.
38:24
They're just saying, "Nope, you're not
38:26
going to deal with any of those side
38:28
effects of being alive anymore." It's
38:30
like honestly sometimes I look at the
38:32
lay for I think are they undead?
38:34
>> We've talked about that
38:35
>> already undead.
38:36
>> Yeah. Like it's it's a weird thing. Like
38:38
if you want to hear us talk about that
38:39
more, we can do a whole episode on that
38:41
probably of what constitutes an undead
38:43
in World of Warcraft cuz oh man is do we
38:46
we have enough there for probably
38:47
several hours.
38:49
>> Cali like we talked about Calia before
38:51
the prime example. Yeah.
38:53
>> Calia Menithil is not a forsaken. She's
38:56
not that kind of undead, but she's very
38:58
clearly undead, right? Except what's the
39:01
real difference between Cali Menithil
39:03
and any of that army of light forged
39:08
that don't age?
39:09
>> Jaw bones.
39:11
>> Jawbones. [laughter]
39:13
Did you say jawbones?
39:15
>> Yeah,
39:16
>> got jawbones.
39:17
>> Yeah. None of the rest of the for can
39:18
do.
39:18
>> No, the light forged have jawbones, s
39:21
>> Oh, sure. Yeah. [laughter]
39:23
>> Jump into the other group on me there,
39:25
buddy. No, it's all good. I when he said
39:27
jaw bones when he saw jawbones, I
39:29
immediately thought of the chiseled the
39:30
chiseled jaw frame of like the Dana
39:32
light forged versus Kalia who's all
39:35
soft.
39:36
>> Oh, Terallion like no look at my Chad
39:39
chin everybody.
39:41
>> Yeah. No,
39:41
>> my my foresaken warlock still has his
39:44
jawbone. He just it's not on his face.
39:46
>> Is it his or somebody else?
39:48
>> Somewhere else.
39:48
>> Yeah. No, he's got it. It's he just has
39:51
it in his bag.
39:52
>> Got it in a box.
39:54
You guys want to see my jawbone? No. Is
39:57
it right there? No. No. This was one
39:58
that they stitched on. This is the
40:00
original one. See how it's all decaying?
40:01
Yeah, that's great. That's great. Could
40:03
you put that away? But it is interesting
40:05
to to to consider like
40:08
we've talked often about the beings of
40:11
Azeroth
40:12
sort of being attuned
40:15
like or or able to resonate with various
40:18
different energies pretty readily.
40:22
And I mean, I don't want to say it's
40:24
ostensibly because all energy is
40:26
essentially the same. No, I think we're
40:29
perfect conduits to it and that lets us
40:32
>> replace our essentially with whatever.
40:36
Like we we are the universal battery
40:38
plug-andplay of the universe
40:40
>> or like you know if you ever heard of
40:42
like you know cars that have the ability
40:44
to switch fuel very quickly, but it
40:47
isn't painless.
40:48
>> No. And it's not without a fact. I
40:50
think. Yeah. And I think it all has side
40:53
effects. Like if you're if you're
40:54
mainlining fell, look at what happens to
40:56
beings that are like like like the
40:58
various fell orcs and chaos orcs. Look
41:01
at what happens to them. Like their
41:03
teeth become implausible.
41:05
Like I don't there's no other way to put
41:07
what happens to orc teeth when they get
41:09
felled up because they don't have like
41:12
fangs or anything. They have
41:14
stellagmites and stagmmit tites sticking
41:16
out of their mouths. They've got teeth
41:18
that come up to the point where how do
41:20
you eat? Like seriously, do you eat? How
41:24
do you do this? You've got you've got
41:27
branches sticking out of your mouth. Uh
41:30
then you look at when when elves get
41:33
fell, they're like they look an awful
41:35
lot like the various succubi demons, the
41:38
the ones that you know come from
41:40
specific places. They look a lot like
41:42
what elves look like when you fell them
41:44
up.
41:45
And meanwhile, you've got elves that are
41:48
suddenly bloodrinking vampires.
41:52
Like, and they're still the elves. They
41:53
were.
41:54
>> I didn't I didn't even I didn't even get
41:55
to them yet, but like Yeah. Like
41:58
>> there's I think that's also one of the
41:59
other reasons why the Sen Lane are like
42:02
perfect vampires, right? Like all that
42:05
is sort of like established in that. At
42:07
least as far as I can.
42:08
>> Switch to life. Switch to directly
42:10
drinking life out of other things. Boom.
42:12
>> Also done. Also, I find it funny you're
42:14
mentioning the the orc tusks and my
42:16
immediate thought was is that why broken
42:19
tentacles chin chinticles are so much
42:21
longer than drai?
42:23
>> Maybe like because it's kind of the same
42:25
thing like you have this body function
42:27
that gets Here's the thing to think
42:29
about. Humans
42:33
don't do that when they're exposed to
42:36
fell.
42:37
>> No, they don't.
42:38
>> They don't well really change. Go ahead,
42:40
Eric. I think it was Eric.
42:42
No,
42:43
>> it it the interesting thing though is
42:44
like they kind of can though.
42:49
Like we've seen exposure to fell
42:53
and maybe not technically purely human,
42:56
but Vikru will definitely shift.
42:58
>> Yeah, Vich will do it, but when humans
43:00
do it, it's individualized.
43:03
There's no like when you expose a Drani
43:05
or an orc, you can you can pretty much
43:08
know, okay, this is the this is what
43:10
this is going to do. It's just a matter
43:13
of how much of it you get. Like, do you
43:15
go all the way to a chaos orc or do you
43:17
just stick it fell or do you just kind
43:19
of like, okay, a couple of doses, you
43:21
just kind of look a little weird. Like,
43:23
Guldon just mostly looked deathly sick
43:26
all the time. Even though he was
43:27
ridiculously powerful, he just always
43:29
looked like he was dying. But with
43:32
humans, two different humans, you expose
43:34
them to the same thing and they have
43:36
wildly different reactions to it.
43:40
And honestly, that's one of the things I
43:42
think about a lot about how humans are
43:45
possibly the most variable in terms of
43:48
the power source they want to switch to
43:51
to the point where humans can be used
43:52
two at the same time.
43:55
Like when Ben Benedictus, Archbishop
43:59
Benedictus turned to to the void, so to
44:01
speak, he didn't stop channeling light,
44:06
he just channeled void 2. Or when
44:08
Zeliac, who was fully undead and under
44:11
the control of the Lich King with the
44:12
helm of domination, and we're talking
44:13
the Arthus Lich King here, we're talking
44:17
well, it's not even the second the first
44:19
one, it was the second one. He could
44:21
channel light while being an undead.
44:24
And a lot of it and we see other the
44:27
forsaken were all human
44:30
like for 99% of them were human. And
44:32
when you see a forsaken they're undead
44:35
and yet they can usually call upon the
44:37
arcane or the light. They can be
44:40
warlocks. They can do all that stuff.
44:43
It's not that other people can't. It's
44:45
that humans seem the most prone to doing
44:48
it. Like at the drop of a hat, a human
44:50
will look for another power source.
44:53
>> Yeah. Oh, boom. Okay, let's use this
44:55
one. What's this one do? Oh, I like this
44:57
one. And in a weird sort of way, that
44:59
makes them uniquely Azerothian,
45:02
>> which also
45:03
>> does that.
45:04
>> Probably feeds into why elves were so
45:06
like takenback by how quickly uh humans
45:10
took to Arcane.
45:12
>> Yeah. Yeah, I would think so. But then
45:15
again, elves elves accepted
45:18
gnomes who could do the same thing. And
45:22
we're talking way before the fall of
45:23
Megagon. There was like there was there
45:26
was an elf right on the council of uh
45:30
Terracefall. The the one the little elf
45:33
major. I can't remember her name, but
45:34
there was one right there.
45:36
>> It wasn't a load, was it?
45:37
>> I don't remember.
45:39
>> It might have been a load, but
45:40
regardless, uh there was a gnome on that
45:42
council like 700 years before the fall
45:45
of Mechagon.
45:47
>> And they didn't have a problem with
45:49
that. Humans shocked them because a
45:52
gnome can still live a couple hundred
45:53
years easy.
45:55
Like gnomes still live longer. Dwarves
45:58
live longer. Humans don't have that.
46:01
Humans didn't keep that longived Titan
46:03
construct race thing.
46:06
I feel like to a certain degree this all
46:08
comes back to what the curse of flesh
46:09
actually is and how it deals with
46:13
incorporating
46:15
this, you know, what isma, what is you.
46:18
I think to a certain degree humans are
46:21
just more even more attuned to changing
46:24
than anything else on Azeroth. But
46:26
everything on Azeroth is is attuned to
46:28
this. It's attuned to, you know, tap
46:31
into everything, feel everything, be
46:33
able to do everything because that just
46:36
makes this all more complex. It creates
46:38
a bigger, more widespread, more
46:41
different universe. And that's our goal.
46:44
We want a universe that is not like the
46:46
universe that the devourers are coming
46:47
to eat.
46:49
>> You're talking about humans having this
46:51
innate ability. And it's got me thinking
46:54
about their origins because as far as we
46:58
know, trolls, elves, they are of
47:00
Azeroth. They're, you know, they they're
47:03
attuned to it. They've been living on
47:05
it. They they evolved from whatever came
47:08
before that, which we, you know, have
47:10
learned a lot about their shared
47:12
origins, but we haven't gone further
47:14
back in time than than what we've seen.
47:17
But humans and gnomes and dwarves,
47:20
they're Titan creations that then spent
47:23
a long time on Azeroth acclimating to
47:25
that. So, you have the ability to do the
47:28
same thing, to live near the well of
47:31
eternity and be affected by it. But the
47:35
that's affected. You know, the elves are
47:36
affected because they were already
47:39
living on Azeroth. They're from Azeroth.
47:41
But other creations can also other other
47:44
entities that didn't start on Azeroth
47:47
can also be affected by it. So,
47:49
>> see, that's the interesting thing, too.
47:50
Um, and Joe might remember this better
47:52
than me, but in when you go toong
47:56
and you see the the actual original
47:59
desan,
48:01
uh, not the ones you see up in in
48:03
Northrand, which are deliberately
48:05
altered by Loen, they mentioned that
48:07
they create entities from the natural
48:10
materials of Azeroth, rock, stone,
48:12
whatever, and then over time
48:16
they replace those. they are replaced by
48:19
entities that are no longer like they're
48:21
biological like everything else which
48:23
has always stuck in my head as a
48:24
possible origin of the curse of flesh.
48:26
Like it's not something that the the old
48:29
gods came up with. It's literally just
48:31
starting the the process early in order
48:35
to make them more vulnerable to the old
48:36
gods.
48:37
>> And I've been on that train for a very
48:38
long time right there with you. Like I
48:41
think
48:41
>> and if that's the case then since
48:44
they're made of Azeroth they're actually
48:47
made from the planet and they are going
48:49
to become flesh.
48:52
They are in a real in a very real way
48:54
all the Titan controlled constructed
48:56
races on Azeroth are as Azerothian as
49:00
anything because they're made from it.
49:02
which I think is what feeds into a lot
49:04
of the stuff that's kind of going on
49:05
with like just in general with Azeroth
49:10
and like why
49:12
we we've said this before. People ask us
49:15
what's going to happen when Azeroth
49:16
wakes up and Matt and I have basically
49:19
in in like four or five different ways
49:21
of coming around it. Um
49:25
just kind of we're already there.
49:29
>> Yeah, I think that Yeah, we have talked
49:30
about that. We have said that,
49:31
>> right? We are we are in that.
49:34
>> Yeah. I remember when you got me on that
49:36
because we were talking about like what
49:38
does it look like when a Titan wakes up
49:42
and you made the point Azeroth can talk
49:45
to people now? It's not just incoherent
49:48
dreams that it has. Sure, it sleeps, but
49:50
it also is awake. It talks. It picked a
49:54
speaker. It then chose to let him go.
49:58
So, we may be looking at the how Azeroth
50:03
wakes up. This is how Azeroth wakes up.
50:05
This is Azeroth's awakeness.
50:07
>> And it's getting clearer. I mean, if the
50:09
12.1 content has been out for a week now
50:11
and but some of the early quests like
50:14
it's focused and it's more like a
50:16
conversation and it's less like this,
50:18
you know, through 10 different panes of
50:20
glass trying to get emotions and trying
50:23
to communicate and getting visions and
50:25
being like, I don't know what that was
50:26
about. like it's we're getting some very
50:28
clear, very specific like memories that
50:32
we're we're able to like act on and then
50:35
get followed up. It's more it's getting
50:37
to be more like a conversation. So,
50:39
yeah, it seems like it's happening.
50:43
>> Okay, let's take this back a second to
50:45
what we were originally asked about and
50:47
mana and all that stuff. What if
50:51
the whole reason that this planet full
50:54
of all these tiny temporally limited
50:58
live and die and pump their mana back
51:01
into the cosmos entities are here
51:05
because they're cells.
51:07
Like you are made of a lot of cells and
51:11
all your cells like your skin just dies
51:13
constantly and cells are falling off but
51:15
your skin is all still there for unless
51:17
you know you have a disease or something
51:19
like all this stuff in your body you're
51:21
constantly you are like the perfect
51:23
example of the shipthesius
51:25
you as a as an as a multisellular entity
51:28
what if what we're looking at is a
51:30
metaellular entity like individual
51:33
beings come and go but as they come and
51:36
as they go They add to and impart
51:40
characteristics of themselves to
51:41
Azeroth. The world soul is a is an
51:44
amalgamation of all of these beings.
51:47
We've talked about this before in terms
51:49
of the world soul as this kind of being
51:51
everybody at once. Every Azerothian,
51:54
whether they're from the planet or
51:56
adopted by it, like when the orcs showed
51:58
up, Azeroth clearly accepted them. Like
52:02
their their shaman could talk to spirits
52:04
here. The elements answered them. They
52:07
can be healed here. Druid magic works on
52:10
them. The the Dani can come here and the
52:14
world accepted them. It accepts beings
52:16
who come here just wanting a place to
52:18
live.
52:20
And not very dissimilar from what we saw
52:23
when we went to Caresh. And Caresh's
52:26
world soul despite being a screaming
52:29
barely alive thing is still willing to
52:32
accept people who come to it.
52:34
And it's almost as if they can't help it
52:37
because they are made up of the things
52:39
that come to them. If you live there, if
52:43
you experience your life there, if you
52:45
die there, you create something that
52:48
will be carried forward in Azeroth
52:50
forever.
52:51
And what if that's the the deal with and
52:55
and mana? That's mana is the stuff you
52:57
bring and anima is the stuff you make
53:00
with it and the stuff that continues and
53:03
lasts forever and carries forward and
53:07
you'll have as Azeroth awakens you what
53:10
you get is really Azeroth becomes more
53:13
complicated because it's got more
53:15
viewpoints in it. It's got the life of
53:17
every little earn that ever comes up now
53:20
because those earn are now directly
53:22
connected to Azeroth. It's got the
53:24
dragons that that directly serve it.
53:27
It's got the humans who pray to the
53:29
light and get light from somewhere where
53:32
they maybe they're getting it from
53:33
Azeroth. Azeroth has lots of light
53:35
channelneled to it.
53:37
All of this stuff, the interaction with
53:40
Mana could just literally be being part
53:44
of Azeroth.
53:47
And when you go to a different world, if
53:49
there's no world soul, the is just
53:51
floating around anyway because
53:53
everything's made of, right? Like makes
53:56
everything up. Everything in the entire
53:58
universe is ultimately at its core.
54:02
And that's what magic is. It's just
54:04
tapping into that stuff and drawing
54:06
forth a resource. Whether it be mana or
54:10
you know just being angry enough that
54:12
you are not going to let this dragon
54:14
kill you or that you can somehow figure
54:15
out how to insult a dragon enough you
54:18
don't speak draconic but you you said
54:20
something in such a tone that that
54:22
dragon's like, "Oh no, I am going to
54:23
kill you. I'm I'm going to ignore the
54:25
people setting me on fire because you're
54:27
just that rude." Um, I I just really
54:30
feel like there's something to this that
54:32
there's an an element of the creation of
54:35
a world soul or in this case perhaps
54:37
more than a world soul because we we
54:39
still don't know what Azeroth is. Is it
54:42
the final Titan because there won't be
54:43
any Titans after this? Is it the last
54:45
Titan for that reason? Or is it
54:46
something else? I don't know. But I do
54:49
know that it feels like an like Azeroth
54:52
has been constructed and it has been
54:53
it's been going faster. Like it's it's
54:56
on an emergency wake up now. Like it
54:58
doesn't have time for the normal process
55:02
because weirder and bigger things keep
55:04
coming and it's just you nappy time is
55:06
over. But the end of nappy time might
55:08
just be the beings of Azeroth stepping
55:10
up because we are Azeroth.
55:16
>> I I I could buy that. I mean, all
55:18
analogies eventually fail with the, you
55:20
know,
55:21
>> unless you make an analogy about wearing
55:22
tight pants, that's always perfect,
55:24
[laughter]
55:25
>> but like Azeroth waking up and us being
55:28
a part of it. Like I guess that makes me
55:30
part of the immune system because all
55:31
I'm doing is running around Azeroth and
55:34
eliminating stuff stuff from Azeroth,
55:36
stuff from attacking from outside. I
55:39
guess I'm the white blood cell in that
55:40
analogy. But I do get that when we talk
55:45
about magic and mana being like
55:47
something that's used to do that magic.
55:49
It makes me think like just life, even
55:53
the b most basic life, even the life
55:55
that you have to think, oh yeah, that's
55:59
life, too. Like planting a seed in the
56:00
ground and then coming back a week later
56:03
and it's a sprout and then a week later
56:04
it's a sapling. It's like you put a
56:07
thing that looked like a tiny little
56:08
rock in dirt and that thing turned dirt
56:12
and water into a plant. Like you don't
56:15
call that magic. It's not, you know,
56:18
making a mana bun out of arcane energy.
56:20
And
56:20
>> yeah, there's a druid somewhere who's
56:22
absolutely going to tell you how magic
56:23
is.
56:23
>> Oh man. And a man bun is essentially the
56:25
mage taking a bit of their shoving it
56:27
into a physical form and letting you eat
56:28
them.
56:30
>> Right. So it's it's just you're just
56:32
moving energy around from one point to
56:34
the other. And if that if that was all
56:37
towards a meta oranism planetwide, then
56:43
I I I mean I don't think it's definitely
56:46
not true. I think it could be.
56:49
Yeah. It's the beauty of this is that
56:52
it's it's wide open, right? It's not
56:55
something set in stone. It's sort of
56:58
murial.
56:59
And from a narrative standpoint, that
57:01
means it could be whatever the heck they
57:03
want it to be. But there does seem to be
57:06
a lot of things that all kind of like
57:08
link and mesh together. And if they
57:10
decide to pull on those threads that the
57:12
story progresses, we may get more of an
57:14
explanation of that or we may not. But
57:17
either way, this has been really fun. So
57:20
Razer Bug, thank you very much for that
57:22
question. I know you said it was going
57:24
to be a quick one. Ha, we showed you,
57:26
didn't we? Forgive us, my friends.
57:28
Never.
57:30
[laughter]
57:31
But that's where we're going to call it
57:32
for today, friends. I do want to thank
57:34
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57:56
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58:01
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58:25
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58:27
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58:29
[music]
58:36
>> [music]
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