Up next in 10
A lot of our travels as Lorewalkers seem to revolve around what events are happening in World of Warcraft, and Childrens' Week is no exception. As we cart these vulnerable children around to various areas of incredible peril, it re-showed us several spots around Azeroth that made us say, "oh yeah, what was up with that?" Our frequent listener and question-asked scribbleigh asked us several questions in this vein, ranging from the depths of Ironforge to the depths of escorting Marshall Windsor around Blackrock Depths. Really, nostalgia in WoW has a lot of depths to it. Plus, what do you think our former best buds are up to now? I should clarify that in this case I mean the Pandaren, because there are a lot of people we've kinda pulled that number on over the years.
Then, we get a full tinfoil hat conjecture on the connection between Alndust and Kajamite and Azerite. It ends up with the moon, somehow. You'll just have to listen to connect those dots.
If you want even more background story, we also have a guide to every Warcraft book in chronological order (for those of you who prefer reading that way): https://blizzardwatch.com/warcraft-books/
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0:04
[music]
0:10
Hello and welcome to Lore Watch, a round
0:13
table free form discussion about lore in
0:14
your favorite media. I'm your host, Joe
0:17
Perez, one of several lore focused folks
0:19
from Blizzard Watch. And I've got a duo
0:22
of marvelous co-hosts with me today. Uh,
0:24
breaking himself from his Diablo coma
0:27
long enough to join us on this podcast,
0:29
Matt Rossy. How you doing today, Matt? I
0:32
just spent all day wearing the battle
0:35
gear of wrath wielding um sulfuras
0:40
ashandi and two bl you know malad black
0:44
blades of the of the rune you know rune
0:45
blades of the black dragon flight um and
0:48
I dyed my armor red which if you
0:50
remember burning crusade you know that's
0:52
a big deal to have red wrath.
0:54
>> Mhm. So, I did that, too. And And now
0:58
I'm here
1:00
>> where I don't have any of those things,
1:02
Joe.
1:04
>> I don't have any of those things. I have
1:06
them in in WoW, so I could go play WoW
1:08
for a bit, but I can't dye my armor in
1:10
WoW.
1:11
>> Fair.
1:11
>> Please let us die armor in WoW. Anyway,
1:14
ask Eric some stuff so I can try to be
1:16
normal.
1:17
>> Oh, there's no normal here, friends. Uh,
1:20
but how joining us in from parts unknown
1:24
is Eric ODay. How you doing, Eric?
1:26
>> Uh, I'm good. Well, Matt's been busy uh
1:29
with that. I have been sitting AFK as a
1:33
book uh with the best hiding spot trying
1:36
to earn all the decor duel achievements.
1:37
And it's way more fun than I thought it
1:39
would be.
1:41
>> Yeah, I would like it if you as a book
1:42
were reading a book. Not just you
1:44
personally reading a book, but the book
1:46
that you are reading another book. It's
1:49
easy to spot me because yeah, the book
1:50
is has another smaller book next to it.
1:53
>> Inside this book, where you found art?
1:57
>> Boston.
1:57
>> There parts known. [laughter]
2:01
>> Yes, Eric.
2:02
>> Eric and I can go back to being friends
2:04
after this week.
2:06
[laughter]
2:07
>> Yeah,
2:08
the bills.
2:09
>> I'm good. I was going to say I might
2:10
need a few days, but I'm good.
2:12
>> No, hockey. But we're not here to talk
2:13
about hockey.
2:14
>> Oh god, Bruins. Oh jeez. [laughter]
2:16
Never mind. You don't want I I Boston
2:19
could be on fire right now for all I
2:21
know.
2:22
>> Well, we're not here to talk about
2:23
hockey as much as I would love to and
2:25
explain to you the lore of why I love
2:26
the Sabres, but instead we're going to
2:28
be answering questions from you, our
2:30
wonderful listeners, uh, of which we
2:32
have many, many, and thank you for
2:34
sending those in. Please keep doing so.
2:36
Uh, if you have questions for this or
2:38
any of our podcast, be sure to send
2:40
those into podcastwatch.com.
2:42
We ask that you specify the show that it
2:44
is for in the subject line as well as
2:46
any special pronunciation of your name.
2:48
Uh if you don't want to send us an
2:50
email, you can hit us up on Discord. We
2:51
have the Q and Podcast questions channel
2:53
open for everybody. Same rules apply.
2:55
And if you are a Patreon subscriber, we
2:57
have the Patreon Q and podcast questions
2:59
channel set aside for you. And we look
3:01
there first as a way of saying thank you
3:03
for helping us keep the lights on.
3:06
Without further ado, uh let's start with
3:08
uh one from our good friend Scribblet,
3:11
who uh has now been minted the Loa of
3:14
side quests. Uh recently I had the
3:16
pleasure of chaperoning my own little
3:18
orphan on a visit to Iron Forge. Around
3:20
we wondered, and at last found ourselves
3:22
an old Iron Forge looking for a missing
3:24
magny. Clearly, this kid's information
3:26
is out of date. It had me thinking about
3:28
Iron Forge as a city, one that I don't
3:31
often visit these days. Can you refresh
3:33
us on old Iron Forge? What is this uh
3:37
party or part of the city used for? What
3:39
are its origins? I've noticed two earn
3:42
down there with archivist Belgrim, which
3:45
I thought was a nice touch. Um,
3:49
Iron Forge is a weird city where game
3:53
design informed lore, which I think is
3:57
kind of neat. So, way back in ye olden
4:00
days of vanilla WoW, uh if you played in
4:03
the beta, there was uh in closed beta
4:06
for the the vanilla WoW, you were able
4:09
to go into a section of old Iron Forge
4:12
and it was essentially below the city
4:14
just as you would expected. Um it was
4:17
unfinished because again, beta. uh and
4:19
it was meant to be an extension of the
4:21
city driving uh basically further making
4:24
it large and showing the living space of
4:26
the people you're interacting with cuz
4:28
one of the things that is notable when
4:29
you go through Iron Forge is that you
4:32
don't see a lot of homes you see a lot
4:34
of businesses uh storefronts uh common
4:39
areas things like that which is
4:40
perfectly fine and acceptable um but you
4:43
don't see a lot of homes unlike let's
4:46
say going to Doragol when you see the
4:48
earthn area and everywhere just
4:52
everywhere you look into the mountain
4:53
around that area are homes like carved
4:55
into it. You can't go into them
4:56
necessarily, but they're there. They're
4:58
present. And one of the things that the
5:01
early designers were doing was basically
5:04
this idea of having a more the deeper
5:07
you go, the more like that's where they
5:08
live. They're subterranean. That's
5:10
that's whole thing. When we got closer
5:12
to launch, that part of the the city was
5:15
never finished. So they closed it off.
5:17
And this was seen by them essentially
5:19
putting in two un uh objects with uh
5:23
collision in them. The giant vault
5:25
doors, those have been there since the
5:27
game began. Essentially,
5:31
uh players, enterprising players like
5:33
yours truly were able to get behind
5:35
those doors because we're able to abuse
5:37
geometry with movement effects. Mages
5:39
and hunters had a very very easy time
5:41
doing this. Um,
5:42
>> yeah, the winter one was the have
5:44
basically you'd have your pet take it,
5:47
get rid of it, then like summon it on
5:48
the other side. You'd like move yourself
5:50
up to write to it and summon the pet on
5:51
the other side and that would get you
5:53
in. Is am I remembering this right?
5:55
>> That is one of them. Then they patched
5:56
that. And then the other way that they
5:58
couldn't figure out how to patch was uh
6:00
if you put yourself in the corner in
6:01
feigned death and then moved the camera
6:04
so that it faced the uh uh Magnes throne
6:08
and disengaged, it would put you through
6:11
the door into the tunnel. Um and they
6:13
couldn't figure out how to fix that for
6:14
a very long time because without
6:16
disabling disengage or completely
6:19
breaking fain death at the time, there
6:21
was no way to turn it off. I spent many
6:22
days on GM Island by getting into places
6:25
I wasn't supposed to in Vanilla, folks.
6:27
Um uh but so it became this this idea,
6:31
at least story-wise, that that part of
6:33
Iron Forge was sealed off and it became
6:36
old Iron Forge where essentially they
6:39
had built upon it and moved everything
6:42
further up the mountains. And Matt can
6:45
keep me honest on this one. I think I
6:47
remember correctly, one of the in-game
6:48
explanations in vanilla was that they
6:50
were worried about going too deep and
6:53
meeting a same fate as the dark irons
6:56
and so they moved everything up further
6:58
into the top of the mountain. Um, I
7:01
think there was a
7:02
>> I don't remember for sure on the exact
7:04
reason why, but I do remember uh there's
7:07
a reason that both Iron Forge and Grim
7:09
Batal,
7:11
if you look at the maps for both of
7:13
them, you'll notice that they kind of
7:15
like have this big anvil Yep.
7:18
>> with lava all around it right there. And
7:23
the premise is that they have to bring
7:25
the lava up
7:28
because if they the living quarters are
7:30
down under like you just said,
7:33
>> they have to bring the lava up to work
7:36
the kind of dwarfish, you know, iron
7:38
forging that they do
7:39
>> in Iron Forge. Uh, and Grimatl does the
7:42
same thing.
7:43
>> And part of the reason for that was that
7:45
both of those cities witnessed
7:47
what looked like the complete
7:49
destruction of the Dark Irons. Yeah.
7:51
>> Like when they arrived, they were coming
7:53
to to like kick in the door at Black
7:56
Rockck and and head on down to the, you
7:58
know, Black Rock Depths to introduce
8:00
themselves properly. And then the place
8:03
blew up as far as they could tell. It
8:05
just went womb and the whole area was
8:07
like a, you know, was like a bunch of
8:09
destroyed volcanic nubs of rock and
8:12
they're like, "Okay, we're going to go
8:14
home now."
8:14
>> Yeah.
8:15
>> I don't want to go in there and find out
8:17
what just happened. I'm going to be sane
8:18
and leave. So, I think it is related to
8:21
that. Um, I believe that was the the
8:23
explanation they gave, but I don't I
8:25
only remember them talking about the
8:28
secret that we later on found out when
8:31
Magny got himself
8:32
>> Yeah.
8:33
>> turned in when the vault door opened and
8:35
we found that it was this it beca that's
8:37
when it evolved. And one of the other
8:39
interesting things I think is is really
8:40
cool is before that happened, uh, you
8:42
mentioned Grim Batal, as a player, if
8:45
you go do that dungeon, that dungeon is
8:48
based off of what Old Iron Forge was in
8:51
the original like closed beta before
8:53
Vanilla WoW launched. Uh, and when you
8:55
could get to it by going down the, uh,
8:58
extended staircase, Grimatl was
9:00
basically the blueprint for that. Uh, or
9:03
other way around, Iron Forge is the
9:04
blueprint for Grimatl. So, if you go
9:06
through the instance of Grimatl and look
9:09
at it, you'll notice that there's a lot
9:11
of doiciles and a lot of like uh cubbies
9:14
and places that made it look like not
9:17
necessarily Iron Forge, but very similar
9:19
architecture, which I always thought was
9:21
a nice touch. Um, and then of course it
9:24
got essentially redone when Magny
9:28
decided he was going to go break the
9:30
vault and go down and uh it became
9:32
essentially a secure repository of the
9:38
lore that they had of these ancient
9:40
books and forbidden knowledge uh that
9:43
they had basically moved away that we
9:45
now know is earthnbased. Uh, which makes
9:48
a lot of sense considering that dwarves
9:51
are descended from earthen, various
9:53
different flavors of them. Uh, but
9:56
earthn nonetheless. And so,
9:58
>> you know what's interesting, too? If you
9:59
look at the map of old Iron Forge,
10:02
>> um, the in-game one, it is like a shrunk
10:06
down version of Grimatl.
10:07
>> Yeah, very much so. You know, and they
10:09
even have that the the passage you come
10:12
down to go into Grimatl
10:14
uh is similar to the passage you go down
10:17
from Grimatl to end up in the the
10:21
encounter with uh what's his name? Big
10:23
Naki guy. I don't remember the guy's
10:26
name, but you know what I'm talking
10:27
about. Tentacle Face.
10:28
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
10:29
>> The M boss. So yeah, it is it is weird
10:33
that you know when you go to Grimatal
10:35
you can't go in any of them but there
10:36
are a lot more what look like
10:38
residential buildings. It's like I guess
10:40
people in our forge were like no we'll
10:41
just live anywhere. We just we want to
10:43
we want to be safe from the explosions
10:45
cuz that was messed up.
10:47
>> Yeah. Uh Eric I don't know if you have
10:49
anything you want to talk about or add
10:50
there.
10:52
>> Yeah. I this is one that I wasn't very
10:55
mischievous in back in classic
10:56
[laughter] and I followed the rules and
10:58
I didn't get the skill to blink through
11:00
doors. Um but I did go check it out now
11:04
and it's super easy to get to now. Um
11:06
you go in Iron Forge, you go in the
11:07
throne room. The door is just there.
11:09
It's not even a door. It's just a
11:10
hallway and you just go down a ramp and
11:13
a as it stands now, it's this tiny
11:15
little area where there's a path up to
11:17
the platform where Magny,
11:20
you know, decided this is a good place
11:22
to do a Titan ritual to see what's up
11:23
with the elementals and then became a
11:26
diamond for three expansions and then
11:28
the other path goes down study.
11:31
>> Well, it was from Cataclysm to Legion,
11:33
right?
11:34
>> No, he was diamond until uh until uh the
11:38
end.
11:38
>> Yeah. Oh, well, yeah. Uh, he was
11:40
Diamond, but he was frozen Diamond. They
11:43
thought he was dead for three
11:43
expansions.
11:44
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Until he woke up.
11:45
Yeah, I got you. I got you.
11:48
>> Yeah. I I forgot that part, too. That
11:49
you could just kind of go That's like
11:50
That's why Scribbly is down there with
11:53
the orphan because they want to see the
11:56
statue. They want to see the diamond
11:59
king. And, you know, he's he's not there
12:01
anymore. But, I guess, you know, you
12:03
could go see you could at least talk to
12:06
uh whoever's down there. that kind of
12:07
explains like, oh yeah, he he's not
12:09
available. I I can take a message for
12:11
him, but he's out he's been out saving
12:12
the world for a while now. Um but yeah,
12:16
you can go you can go check it out. I
12:17
went and walked around. Um then and then
12:20
yeah, there's also two earn are there,
12:22
which is one of those like nice little
12:24
touches that's like doesn't add anything
12:27
to the game other than like that little
12:29
bit of flavor. Like of course the earn
12:31
would have after the events of the war
12:33
within wanted to go like learn more
12:36
about
12:36
>> well the dwarfs.
12:37
>> It's it's not even that. It's tied
12:39
directly into what they're talking about
12:40
when they were at the end of the war
12:42
within when you complete that essence or
12:45
that that quest chain. Uh and you know
12:48
you Magny becomes uh flesh and bone
12:52
again. Gifting that that sort of gift of
12:55
Azeroth to now make the new Earth and
12:58
that are sentient and not tied to the
12:59
thing. They talk about having lost a lot
13:02
of who they were. And so you know Maggie
13:05
going, "Yeah, we got this book. Um it's
13:08
from our ancestors which were very
13:10
clearly earthing and it's in a chamber
13:12
with a whole bunch of crystals. So do
13:14
you all want to go take a look?" Uh,
13:16
>> if anybody tells you that I was trapped
13:18
there in crystal form for three
13:19
expansions, don't listen to him.
13:21
[laughter]
13:23
>> He's just resting.
13:24
>> Yeah. But it's it's it's an interesting
13:26
tip because it makes sense, right?
13:28
Because the earthn are doing the same
13:29
thing that the Arafi are doing at the
13:32
end of the war within, which is trying
13:34
to reclaim some some semblance of their
13:36
past. And here this has been here since
13:41
Cataclysm, since it started happening,
13:43
since you know that this ancient library
13:47
essentially of uh the earthn artifacts
13:51
that the dwarves held on to that the
13:53
kings knew about behind the vault door
13:55
that lived in the throne room. uh you
13:58
know it's it's an it's a very nice
14:00
little touch and it also
14:03
it's another form of like dwarven
14:04
unification I guess would be the best
14:06
way to put it. So it's a I think that's
14:08
really really neat. Now fun fact if you
14:10
are going to play classic WoW um you can
14:14
go back into Old Iron Forge still. Um
14:16
you I don't know if you get in trouble
14:18
for it anymore so take that with a grain
14:19
of salt. Uh but if you want to go see
14:21
what it was beforehand, which was not
14:25
again not this fully realized thing uh
14:28
with essentially a platform that did
14:30
eventually turn into uh Magny's pedestal
14:33
uh in that area where the book would be.
14:36
Uh but you can still get in there and
14:37
take a look around if you want. There's
14:39
videos of people doing it uh now in
14:41
Classic WoW all the time. So uh your
14:44
mileage may vary and go at your own
14:45
risk.
14:47
Uh, anything else you guys want to add
14:48
before we move on to the next one?
14:51
>> I think we covered it.
14:52
>> Nope. I I also realized I never got my
14:55
dwarf heritage armor, which is uh you
14:57
come back here and you look around for
14:58
stuff and you pick up fragments of I
15:00
think Magny himself. So, that I had to
15:02
add that to my enormous to-do list.
15:05
>> Yeah, there's a lot of stuff to to catch
15:07
up on and do with that stuff. Uh, the
15:09
next question is also going to come from
15:11
Scribbly. We got a a trio of them. We're
15:12
just going to kind of roll through here.
15:14
Uh, I just completed for the first time
15:16
one of the orphan quest lines in
15:18
Children's Week in which you take your
15:20
human orphan on a chopper bike tour. It
15:22
was delightfully unhinged and I actually
15:25
laughed out loud. Uh, I invite you to
15:27
take a moment to reminisce. What are
15:28
your favorite funny or wacky quests in
15:30
WoW? And of course, why another great
15:33
one for me was John J. Kishan of Viet I
15:37
mean Red Ridge Mountains fame. I don't
15:40
know. There's been a lot of really
15:41
unhinged quests or weird quests in WoW's
15:44
history. Um, do you guys have a
15:47
favorite, Eric?
15:50
>> I have to pick one cuz Yeah, there's so
15:53
many.
15:54
>> You don't have to pick one. Just Just
15:55
you can go on a a spree if you want,
15:57
man.
15:58
>> All right. I've got the quick one, which
16:00
I just did again recently because I
16:03
wrote an article about uh getting some
16:05
good housing decor is the amber seeds in
16:08
Grizzly Hill
16:09
>> where you walk by a bucket and the
16:11
bucket is a quest giver and you click on
16:13
it and it's like ooh look tasty seeds
16:15
and you eat the seeds and then someone
16:17
immediately runs up and is like what are
16:19
you doing? Those were magic seeds.
16:21
That's like the entire outpost's supply
16:24
for months and that's unacceptable. And
16:28
so they're like, "We need this. We need
16:29
those back." So he sends you out to get
16:32
your o to gather plants for your own
16:34
laxative. And then you go in the
16:37
outhouse and you reclaim the seeds and
16:41
all of the quest titles are like really
16:43
good puns. And then as of now, as of
16:46
midnight, it rewards an outhouse for
16:49
your housing.
16:50
>> It's funny that that's the Amber Pine
16:52
Lodge quest. I remember that.
16:55
Um, the other one I can't go without
16:57
mentioning is The Day That Deathwing
16:58
Came.
16:59
>> Yeah, that's on the list, I think.
17:00
>> Just just so good. You're you're out in
17:03
the Badlands and there's a giant new
17:04
scar and you've got uh a dwarf and a
17:08
gnome and a goblin just telling their
17:10
story and anytime you have you just go
17:12
into another character's version of what
17:14
happened and you can tell right away
17:16
it's going to be absurd. I think that
17:18
everybody should just go do this quest
17:22
because it's still out there and you can
17:23
still go hear it and there's nothing I
17:26
like better in a video game than than
17:28
humor. Just something that at the at the
17:30
just the right time, it just takes it to
17:32
another level. And this one is just so
17:34
good to hear the story from these three
17:36
of what they were doing when Deathwing
17:38
flew over and how they handled it.
17:41
Matt.
17:43
>> Well, if it's got to be funny, um
17:44
there's the Johnny Awesome quest.
17:48
>> Yeah. Well, which one
17:49
>> you go?
17:50
>> Well, the one where you go, not the
17:52
original one. Uh the one where you go
17:54
after the Cataclysm and he's giving
17:58
quests in Taran Mill. So, or it's in the
18:01
Termill area. I can't remember if it's
18:03
actually in Termill or not. It's been a
18:04
long time. Uh, but there's that quest
18:07
because you go and you actually he gives
18:09
you quests
18:11
like except you're the one giving him
18:14
quests if I remember correctly and
18:16
they're terrible and and pretty funny.
18:18
Like there's an escort related one
18:20
that's kind of like, you know, if you've
18:21
ever been on an escort quest, you
18:23
understand this guy's pain. I always
18:25
think about that one just because it was
18:27
so I did not see that coming. I I did
18:29
not expect Johnny Awesome to be there.
18:31
There's one that isn't funny, but it's
18:33
sort of like like creepy and it's a
18:36
vanilla one that I don't think is there
18:38
anymore. Uh there used to be a quest and
18:41
it wasn't specific to a torren. I just
18:43
happened to be playing a Torin where
18:45
you'd go to unders city for like I don't
18:47
remember why I was an unders city other
18:49
than I'm a torren. It's a horde city.
18:51
I'm going to go see what's up. And they
18:54
give you a quest to go to Ashara and
18:57
collect some weird ooze and you do it.
19:00
And when you get back to to unders city,
19:03
the apothecary uses the ooze to make a
19:07
torin sick.
19:09
And then you're like, "What? Why did you
19:11
do that?" And he goes, "No, no, it's
19:12
fine. Just go back and and get the
19:14
antidote stuff for me." So you do that.
19:15
You come back with that. And he kills
19:17
her. Like, oops, I guess it wasn't an
19:20
antidote. And I'm like, why don't I get
19:22
the option to hit this man? But at the
19:24
same time, it was such a perfect
19:25
encapsulation of the Forsaken.
19:28
the idea that even when they're not
19:30
trying to be creepy and abusive, then
19:32
they don't really understand being alive
19:34
anymore. Like it's, oh, right, you want
19:37
not to have more essence of undeath
19:39
inside you. That kills you, right? Oh,
19:43
okay. I see where I went wrong.
19:45
[laughter]
19:46
I get it. I get my I get my mistake.
19:48
That must have been very bad for you to
19:50
see. I'm I apologize. So, yeah, it was
19:53
just one of those moments. I'm like,
19:56
"Yeah,
19:57
there's also this one's also not funny,
20:01
but it's kind of like heartwarming."
20:03
Sort of. Not really heartwarming, but
20:04
sort of like sad, bittersweet type
20:06
thing. In Vanilla WoW, if you went to
20:08
Dark Shore, there was this night elf and
20:11
he had a bear, like a big white bear
20:14
that was his friend. And in the opening
20:17
of Cataclysm, if you get when you go to
20:18
Dark Shore, you find him dead and his
20:22
bear hurt
20:24
and you have to like I think you have to
20:26
actually you you have to go find the
20:27
bear and then the bear helps you find
20:29
him and he's dead and the bear is
20:31
heartbroken and one of his friends
20:33
basically is like at the end the bear is
20:36
hanging out with one of the guys friends
20:37
who's like I'll take care of you. It's
20:38
okay. he would have wanted you to be
20:40
taken care of. And it always, you know,
20:43
I'm sitting going, I'm not crying. Just
20:45
there's a bear and this person died, but
20:48
he got a new person. That's good, right?
20:52
God, this has happened to be. So,
20:54
there's, you know, there's quests like
20:56
that that I really like. There's Sully
20:58
Belaloo. You guys remember Sully Blue
20:59
quest, right?
21:00
>> Yep.
21:01
>> Yeah. And the Sully Blue quest just
21:03
because it's mostly just letters. Uh,
21:05
and you you're reading this guy's
21:07
letters and they're basically actuali
21:10
American Civil War letters changed
21:12
around to fit Azeroth. So, you kind of
21:15
really get a sense of how he's like, I I
21:17
I just want to come home. I I hate this.
21:20
This is awful.
21:22
So, yeah, I guess mine are all sad,
21:25
[laughter] but nevertheless, awesome.
21:27
>> So, so on brand.
21:30
Um,
21:30
>> I'm sorry, guys. I tried.
21:32
>> There's so many. Um, and I have a lot of
21:35
fond memories of a lot of these as well.
21:37
Um, ones that come to mind, uh, the
21:39
Horde specific one that I think I I
21:42
think a lot of people will remember this
21:44
is the Welcome to the Machine quest
21:46
line, uh, where you as a player get to
21:49
experience the game from the perspective
21:51
of an NPC giving quests to adventurer
21:54
players. Um, it essentially it is a
21:57
comedy quest line where you get to meet,
22:00
you know, all of the various stereotypes
22:02
of players in the game. Uh, like the
22:05
blood elf paladin, uh, Johnny Awesome is
22:08
one of the people that comes up and gets
22:10
a quest from you. uh the hardcore death
22:13
knight that has all this endgame raiding
22:15
gear uh on his like, you know, frost
22:18
worm that you have a whole series of
22:20
quests with later on where he's just
22:22
basically a big kid cuz he's like a
22:24
12-year-old kid uh just playing the edge
22:26
lord death knight. Um it was just a very
22:29
funny, very meta humor quest that I
22:32
really enjoyed and kind of stuck with
22:34
me. And I remember getting to experience
22:37
it the first time because up until this
22:40
point I had only really been playing
22:41
Alliance uh tunes for the longest time
22:44
and it was like it was just absolutely
22:46
hysterical to me as a horde player to
22:48
like just get a quest that was just Yes,
22:50
that is absolutely uh perfect on that
22:53
one. Um we can go to Unuro Crater for
22:57
some of the other ones that I think are
22:58
just absolutely hysterical. Uh
23:01
>> oh god. Oh man, I forget those. Well,
23:04
let's let's talk about Maxmillion.
23:06
[laughter]
23:07
This is a man who is completely
23:10
determined, no matter what you do, to
23:13
ignore what's actually happening.
23:15
>> Yeah, he is uh he is essentially a
23:17
throwback or a reference in my opinion.
23:19
>> Absolutely.
23:20
>> Uh no, I think Monty Python and the Holy
23:21
Grail.
23:22
>> I think it's Don Kyog, man.
23:24
>> Maybe a little bit. Uh but but you you
23:27
essentially he is a and I'm going to air
23:29
quote here blood elf knight uh who is
23:32
very clearly a human paladin
23:35
uh who uses very over the top chivalous
23:39
phrases. Uh and you become the squire to
23:41
go rescue damsels in distress and assist
23:44
uh his quest to defeat mighty dragons.
23:47
Um
23:48
when you do find
23:49
>> they're mighty. They are mighty.
23:51
>> They are mighty. Uh he freaks out. I I
23:54
just remember like he has like this big
23:56
breakdown or mental breakdown when he
23:58
sees how big and tough it is and just
24:00
screams just throw rocks at it or
24:02
something. I don't have a plan. Uh which
24:05
is absolutely hysterical. And it this is
24:07
like a level 15 quest line uh that you
24:11
get to do right away. Uh the other one
24:12
that I thought was always fun too, do
24:14
you remember Lincoln?
24:16
>> Yep.
24:17
>> Lincoln was a little gnome uh with a
24:20
shield and uh there was a whole bunch of
24:23
Yeah, there was a 13part quest chain
24:26
that took place in Unuro uh Unuro Crater
24:29
that did nothing but play pay homage to
24:32
The Legend of Zelda with its quest
24:33
titles, objects, the character. Um
24:36
>> I've still got the sword.
24:38
>> Yeah, I still have the sword, too. I've
24:40
got the sword as well. Um which I think
24:43
is just indicative of how
24:46
out there they were willing to be. Um,
24:50
do you remember Peace Bloom versus
24:52
Ghouls?
24:53
>> Yeah, that was a good one.
24:55
>> Uh, another pop culture reference in
24:58
WoW, which was uh a quest line where you
25:02
plants versus zombies where literally
25:04
you were planting all sorts of different
25:05
plants uh to fight waves and waves of
25:09
zombies. Uh, that was over in the uh I
25:13
think it was just below the Dollar
25:14
Crater in Hills, if I remember
25:17
correctly. Um, and it just gets harder
25:19
and harder and harder. But it was like
25:21
it was a reference because I think a lot
25:22
of the people that were not a lot of
25:25
people, but there was a good chunk of
25:26
people that were working on WoW at the
25:28
time that had previously worked on
25:31
Plants Versus Zombies and were allowed
25:32
to put that quest and and stuff in the
25:35
game, which was just a really cool
25:36
moment. And I remember organically
25:38
finding it cuz like while sites like
25:39
ours existed at the time, they weren't
25:42
everywhere. And it was
25:45
really like there were stuff that we
25:48
would find randomly that people
25:52
either wouldn't know about or know to
25:53
look for or would completely ignore. And
25:57
so
25:57
>> that was me and the Train Crusher stuff.
26:00
>> Yep.
26:00
>> I found Twin Crusher's grave uh by
26:03
complete accident. I had no idea what I
26:05
was doing.
26:06
Um, but then like I remember finding
26:09
like the critter plateau and we I did a
26:12
whole article on it with video back in
26:14
the early days of YouTube because that
26:17
was the only way we could host a video
26:18
and it was it's potato quality and I
26:20
think it's still out there in some
26:22
capacity on the website we no longer are
26:24
associated with. Um, but like I just
26:27
randomly stumbled across it where like I
26:29
was sitting there, it was safe, there
26:30
was no aggressive mob spawning and I had
26:33
to go do something. And I come back and
26:34
I'm like, there's all these weird
26:36
critters with armor and helmets and
26:38
they're murdering each other. What is
26:40
going on here? And I remember mentioning
26:42
it in our like our work chat. We had
26:43
like a group chat and I was like, does
26:45
anybody ever seen this? Like am I losing
26:46
my mind? And like no, what's going on?
26:50
And like we did a whole thing on it, but
26:52
like little tiny stuff like that. Or
26:55
finding the uh winter winter bark
27:00
uh troll village where they just dance.
27:02
They're all They're all neutral and
27:03
friendly.
27:05
>> Yeah. And then they killed them in
27:06
Cataclysm.
27:07
>> And then they killed the They killed the
27:08
entire village in Cataclysm, but it was
27:09
just like this weird little thing that
27:11
you could find.
27:12
>> Um or the chicken escort quest in
27:14
Taenerys. Do you remember that?
27:16
>> The robot ones.
27:17
>> The robot chickens.
27:18
>> The robot chickens.
27:18
>> Actually, they were like in four
27:20
different places.
27:21
>> Yeah. You had to go.
27:23
>> Yeah.
27:23
>> Yeah. Tenerys and Feralis and a bunch of
27:25
other places were like these mechanical
27:27
chickens. Uh, and I think it started in
27:29
in in Gadget Gadget Xan, I think. But
27:33
like you were literally to find these
27:35
things, use the slash chicken emote,
27:37
which was you flapping your arms like a
27:39
chicken and and clucking and then
27:41
escorting them while they just go
27:43
absolutely bonkers, pulling everything
27:46
in sight, all this to get a mechanical
27:49
chicken pet. Um, like stuff like that.
27:52
like the game had a lot more humor
27:57
associated with it back then than I
27:58
think it does now. Um maybe not so much.
28:03
There definitely is humor, but it was a
28:04
lot more hidden. I think it was a lot
28:06
less in your face. It was there's
28:08
incidental humor which was much more
28:10
common than you know
28:12
>> there's funny quests obviously but like
28:15
the whole time you were talking you were
28:16
reminding me of something that I don't
28:18
know
28:18
>> if it was meant to be funny or just a
28:20
thing but the fact that there was like
28:23
there were like tombs that were just the
28:25
tomb out of Conan the Barbarian.
28:27
>> Yeah.
28:28
>> You just find it and there's there's the
28:30
skeleton that he found. There's the
28:32
sword. You could take the sword from
28:33
him. It wasn't a good sword or anything.
28:35
It was a great sword.
28:36
>> You just take it. Yeah.
28:38
>> Well, it was only a great sword in size.
28:40
It was not a great sword.
28:41
>> No, gray like the color gray.
28:42
>> Oh, okay.
28:43
>> Gray quality.
28:44
>> It was a great sword. It wasn't that
28:46
great. Uh, but seriously, like there's
28:48
like all these little bits like that.
28:49
Then I think I think it started to
28:51
change in in Burning Crusade when they
28:53
started just doing straight up Star Wars
28:55
references.
28:56
>> Yeah.
28:57
>> Like toshley station power converters
28:59
and all that stuff. And I'm not saying
29:01
it's bad. I'm just saying it was a it
29:02
was a change in tone from from like you
29:06
know wink wink nudge nudge we got a joke
29:08
to you know hey here's a joke and
29:10
involves poop.
29:11
>> Yeah. Like and again this is not a we're
29:14
not saying that it's a bad thing. It's
29:15
just a notable shift in tone. But like
29:18
go back and and if you get a chance to
29:20
play classic WoW in its pure form of
29:24
just vanilla WoW and you get to
29:26
experience all these quests like it's
29:28
worth going and looking. And like back
29:30
then they really really really rewarded
29:34
world exploration as long as it was in
29:36
an area you weren't supposed to get into
29:38
like Mount Hyel before it was open of
29:40
which landed me in GM island for a week.
29:42
Um like you could find
29:44
>> under Kazan.
29:45
>> Yeah. Or under Kazan where they had the
29:48
before the crypts were open and you
29:50
could find things like references to Big
29:53
Trouble in Little China where you had
29:55
the hell for upside down sinners uh
29:57
which also landed me in GM Island for a
29:59
while.
30:00
>> Um I was a bad bad bad boy when it came
30:03
to exploring the world. I wanted to see
30:05
everything. Um, I also got behind the
30:07
grey main wall before that was available
30:09
because there used to be the grey main
30:12
wall was closed. The gate was closed and
30:14
there were fearbogs standing in front of
30:16
it and they were like, "Yeah, you can't
30:17
go in there. You shouldn't go in there."
30:18
Uh, I found out that you could get in in
30:21
fact get behind the wall. There wasn't
30:22
anything there really. It was just empty
30:24
space, but you could get back there. Um,
30:26
but also this
30:27
>> like a flat ground area that was like
30:29
there, but it didn't even look like
30:31
ground. Yeah, it was just literally flat
30:33
flat ground uh untextured because they
30:35
were they had originally intended to
30:39
make uh you know the the entire city of
30:44
Gala
30:45
uh playable or a playable area in
30:48
vanilla WoW and just never got a chance
30:50
to do it. Um, so instead of, you know,
30:55
giving a halfdone version, they just
30:57
didn't, they just didn't have time. So
30:59
they just put the wall up and said,
31:00
"Well, the Greyman wall is part of lore.
31:02
Here you go." But you were able to get
31:04
back there if you really tried. There
31:05
was um breaks in the geometry of the
31:07
wall that you could use like steps
31:09
>> that was really similar to, and I don't
31:11
think Eric might actually remember this
31:13
one. Uh when you would go to Strathol
31:15
and you'd look at those really weird
31:17
giant things around either side of the
31:19
Byron Riven Rivendere uh uh attack
31:23
place, it used to be like a fully
31:25
functioning go up to uh Next Ramis thing
31:28
that they put in.
31:31
>> They were going to have you that was
31:32
going to be the only way to get there
31:34
>> was you were going to have to go up
31:36
through uh Stratholm, get to the end and
31:39
then cuz cuz they did that with Molten
31:41
Core. They put a portal to Molten Core
31:43
inside Black Rock Mountain. Originally,
31:46
it was in Black Rockck Depths. You
31:48
couldn't just go and jump through a like
31:51
a a hole in the wall and appear the
31:54
random window that would transport you
31:56
to Molten Core wasn't a thing.
31:59
>> You had to actually take the raid guild.
32:01
That's one of the reasons you could take
32:02
a full raid into Black Rockck Depths be
32:05
a 40 person raid because you had to take
32:07
all of them to the portal. Same thing
32:09
with Upper Black Rock Spire because uh
32:11
Blackwing Layer when it was available
32:12
didn't have the the orb that wasn't
32:14
there originally. You had to go through
32:16
Blackwing Layer with your raid and then
32:19
get to the portal and get yourself in.
32:22
And like people talked about attunement
32:24
uh being a thing. Uh, and maybe this is
32:27
more of a a main podcast thing, but
32:30
there was for me it made it a weirdly
32:33
immersive experience uh that they then
32:36
made uh quality of life improvements to,
32:39
but it was like very much drawing you
32:41
into this idea of yeah, you're fighting
32:43
through, you know, the the anti chambers
32:46
to get to the main uh keep and and do
32:49
battle with the main villains. Uh, and
32:51
yeah, it should take you time and effort
32:53
to do that. Uh, but it was just it was
32:58
it was an artifact of how MMOs had
33:01
always been done because
33:03
again EverQuest and and Lineage and and
33:07
uh Dark Age of Camelot uh and others
33:10
that I I can't even think to name right
33:12
now that was very common for you to have
33:14
to go through Ultima. You had to go
33:16
through an instance to get to the raid.
33:19
>> Um and then they they changed that uh
33:22
where you know now it's quality of life.
33:23
You just go to the entrance of the raid
33:25
or whatever the case is. And in vanilla,
33:28
they added shortcuts like jumping
33:29
through a window into a lava pool.
33:32
>> The molten core loofos. How many times
33:35
have I clicked on that?
33:36
>> Yep. So,
33:38
>> it's also really really funny too when
33:39
we're talking about this is that
33:41
lorewise the stories for why you had to
33:43
do all this were perfectly good stories.
33:46
>> Yeah. Um, but it was the mechanic of
33:48
having to do it every week that was just
33:51
like I think there was atunement chains
33:53
had two problems that were not
33:55
necessarily related to the lore of them.
33:57
In many cases, the lore was great, but
34:00
an atunement run as big as the one you
34:02
got for Karazan.
34:05
It was it was just it took so much time.
34:08
Or how many times did you have to run um
34:11
Black Rockck Deps to get everybody keyed
34:13
for Enixia?
34:14
>> Yep. Yep. And the at least with the
34:16
Horde, it kind of went to one spot and
34:19
you were done. The Alliance one, you had
34:21
to do this ridiculous escort quest. Uh,
34:25
and it's again a good story. I loved
34:28
Marshall. Uh, he was great, but
34:31
it still was like, "Oh my god, we got a
34:34
new guy. We got to get him keyed to
34:35
Enixia." Matt, um, are you doing
34:37
anything right now? I guess I'm tanking
34:39
the worst escort quest in existence
34:42
>> since you asked me. But yeah, like
34:45
you're saying, like that was that was
34:46
sort of the weird thing about
34:47
attunements is that they were all they
34:50
all made sense story-wise. They were all
34:53
integrated with the story and questing
34:55
which made them, you know, and we're
34:58
kind of veering way off the the beaten
35:00
path here. But you asked for
35:01
>> You can't be surprised. We do that every
35:03
week. But you you asked for fond
35:06
memories and like yeah those are some
35:08
fond memories of that but it was also
35:09
like just finding the random things like
35:11
finding the the hidden references like
35:14
you know Lincoln was was definitely the
35:17
one of those those funny quests
35:19
stumbling across Lunk the pacifist ogre
35:22
uh like things like that were just fun
35:25
little things that they didn't make a
35:27
big deal about they didn't draw a whole
35:29
lot of attention to and just kind of
35:31
happened or even in Legion there was
35:33
some of them and while they were
35:34
questing that that definitely
35:36
highlighted like Tad and Marius, right?
35:39
Uh Bill and Ted essentially and the very
35:42
first time you interact with them, it is
35:44
not exactly a normal thing. It's a
35:47
little side quest where you interact
35:49
with them and then it becomes a big
35:52
adventure afterwards where you they
35:53
become recurring quest givers and and
35:56
people you interact with. But it's just
35:58
like it's one of those things where at
36:00
the time it was just this off-handed
36:01
reference that was just hidden in a side
36:03
quest. And there's a lot of those.
36:05
There's a lot of little references,
36:06
especially in vanilla WoW. And so, as
36:09
much as I may not like classic WoW as a
36:12
full-time gig, I highly encourage you to
36:14
maybe take some time and explore the
36:16
world a little bit and see what
36:18
questing, what the weird quests used to
36:19
look like, especially in a world where
36:21
you couldn't fly and you were lucky if
36:24
you had a ground mount at 40% speed.
36:29
But I think we're gonna move on to the
36:30
>> I still miss my Pinto. He was my little
36:32
Pinto pony.
36:34
>> Little Pinto pony.
36:34
>> He really was a Pinto. He He was white
36:36
and brown. He didn't explode when things
36:38
ran into him, but he would just vanish
36:39
and I'd get hit. Uh yeah, I I missed
36:42
that. Go ahead. I'm sorry.
36:44
>> Our last one from Scribblet uh is about
36:48
the Pandaran who hold a special place in
36:50
their heart. Uh and truthfully, they
36:52
feel like they haven't gotten much in
36:54
the way of storytelling in a while. In
36:56
our opinion, where could their story go
36:58
next given current events and why? Uh, I
37:02
think I've talked about this a lot and
37:05
we're starting to get a little bit of it
37:06
because with the some of the catch-up
37:08
mechanics and the uh expansion synopsis
37:13
stuff that they're doing with like the
37:14
book of lore that's in the major cities,
37:16
like if you log into a character that
37:17
you maxed out uh during uh the war
37:20
within and then never came back to him
37:22
or uh dragon flight, there's a tome, a
37:25
quest that runs you through the events
37:27
of the next expansion after it that you
37:29
can get, you know, experience for. It's
37:31
essentially lore walking. Uh it and it
37:33
synopsis it summarizes everything that
37:36
happens in that expansion for you so
37:38
that you can sort of experience it which
37:40
is literally a thing I asked for for
37:43
decades which thank you Blizzard for
37:46
listening to me and I I'm making a
37:48
little heart symbol with my hands right
37:49
now. Um,
37:52
but that's kind of where the Pandarin to
37:55
me shine is gathering stories and the
38:00
power of storytelling
38:03
because being able to go and experience
38:07
uh basically the psychometry of items
38:10
and stories and to
38:14
the use of their magic is what they
38:17
should be doing. Think about it this
38:19
way. Think of a Pandaran were to go to
38:20
Hollowfall. You have a generation of
38:24
people who have come and gone
38:26
essentially. A younger generation is has
38:28
picked up the mantle. Some of the old
38:29
ones remember, but not all of them do.
38:32
And while they do have a a high elf with
38:34
them, he's, you know, just one person.
38:38
But let's say a family heirloom came
38:40
along for the journey and they don't
38:41
remember that family stories or those
38:43
those people fell in battle and didn't
38:45
get to pass the story along to their
38:47
children who are now living at the
38:49
orphanage. a pandaran can come by and
38:52
unlock the story of this comb or brush
38:55
that was left behind for you know this
38:57
orphan or you know this metal or you
39:00
know this piece of armor whatever the
39:03
case is whatever trinket or keepsake
39:04
they have of their parents and tell them
39:07
the story of their parents tell them the
39:10
events and let them experience it right
39:14
and that's such a a thing that I don't
39:16
think can be downplayed with the magic
39:17
of of lore walking the people who you
39:21
bring into lore walking experience what
39:24
happened and for again like I'll use the
39:28
orphans of Hollowfall as an example
39:31
they get to experience their parents
39:32
potentially they get to experience
39:34
things that they never would have that
39:36
they could be told about sure and they
39:38
could be given the stories of their
39:40
parents and and the idea of who their
39:42
parents were but to see them do these
39:46
things to to fight valiantly to care and
39:49
love and and to live a life to
39:52
experience it yourself
39:54
is such a monumental thing. It it is
39:59
wildly important and they should be
40:01
doing that. The lore walkers and the
40:03
pandaran in general should be going
40:06
across the world and mending wounds that
40:09
can't be healed with any other type of
40:11
magic. At least that's what I believe.
40:15
And I've talked a lot, so I'm going to
40:16
let you guys go. Eric, do you have
40:18
opinions on this?
40:20
>> Yeah, if you look at I mean, Scribbly
40:23
asks, we haven't gotten much in the way
40:26
of storytelling in a while. And you look
40:27
at who has gotten much in the way of
40:29
storytelling. Right now, we're in elves
40:31
and trolls, which are looking at, you
40:33
know, uniting many peoples who are kind
40:36
of scattered across uh,
40:39
you know, different continents and
40:41
different ways of life. they were
40:43
looking at their homelands and having
40:46
stuff happen to them, going back to
40:48
their history, like what would that look
40:49
like for the Pandora? Um, you know, I
40:53
think we've talked a little bit about
40:55
having a housekeeping expansion coming
40:56
up sometime soon where we don't have a
40:58
cosmic threat, but we turn more towards
41:00
stuff that's been on the back burner.
41:01
And the Pandar are most interesting
41:03
because they've got a faction split.
41:05
They've got Horde contingent and
41:07
Alliance contingent. And we haven't
41:09
heard too much about the, you know, the
41:11
tension that comes along with that.
41:12
Like, what's what's it going to be when
41:15
stuff kind of simmers down and a lot of
41:17
them go back to visit their families and
41:20
they're looking at each other in red and
41:21
blue tobards? Like, is that is that
41:24
going to be a conflict? Could there be
41:25
some story there? Um, I I think it might
41:29
be interesting to hear other stories
41:32
about wanderers like, you know, you've
41:34
we first encounter Chen Stormstout back
41:36
in Warcraft 3. Um, were there other
41:39
Pandarin who left and went and did other
41:41
things? Um, if we go to other
41:43
continents, would has there ever been a
41:45
Pandarin that got off planet and some
41:48
other place that we haven't been to yet?
41:50
Um, so having having like another
41:53
character come in or another story of a
41:55
a group like the the like the hell of a
41:58
group that split off and was isolated
42:00
and then we run into them. Like where
42:03
where would we see them next? And could
42:05
uh uh could a group be, you know, an
42:08
entity that we run into and has some
42:10
interesting backstory and they're really
42:12
good at telling that backstory because
42:13
they're think that would be cool,
42:17
>> Matt.
42:19
>> Oh, there's a giant turtle in space.
42:23
[laughter]
42:24
>> No. Uh, I was actually going to say
42:26
something that that's been hitting me as
42:27
we've been, you know, you're talking
42:30
about stuff you could do with the Pandar
42:31
and both of you had cool ideas, but to
42:33
me, this one that's almost blatantly
42:35
obvious and that they have made no
42:37
effort to to pursue.
42:40
of the people of Azeroth who know about
42:43
Titan technology,
42:45
the Pandora were enslaved by the Mou who
42:48
are Titan forged who had multiple Titan
42:51
facilities and they overthrew them and
42:54
took charge of those facilities.
42:56
>> Mhm.
42:57
>> When the MOU came back, they grabbed
42:59
some of them back, but they're they're
43:00
now not an issue. all those like you
43:04
know we used the Horde and alliance used
43:06
two big Titan constructs as essentially
43:08
>> also don't don't forget we have we have
43:10
friendly Mou too now because of Rod end
43:12
>> yeah yeah exactly
43:15
I just feel like that whole it that
43:18
whole part of the puzzle could be
43:20
brought in like the these are people
43:23
like I mean I I got to admit you can't
43:26
necessarily trust Cho to actually know
43:28
what's going on with with the device
43:32
Joe. It's C H Joe. Not me. I know. I
43:35
meant. Yeah. [laughter] Not you.
43:36
>> Joe knows.
43:37
>> Yeah. But he runs right up and just
43:40
starts pushing buttons and then he's
43:41
like, "Oh, I didn't see that coming."
43:43
So, but in a way, sometimes you need
43:46
that guy. You need the guy who's not
43:47
afraid to just start whacking buttons.
43:49
Um,
43:51
yeah. I just feel like we could be doing
43:52
a lot more with the Pandar as actual
43:55
experts on some of this stuff. Like you
43:59
you know when you come up to a Titan
44:00
console, they're as likely as anybody to
44:03
know what it is. They've they preserved
44:06
the Mou
44:08
culture that they were exposed to. It's
44:11
not like the dwarves who lost most of
44:13
being earthen. Even the earthn have lost
44:15
most of being earn.
44:16
>> Mhm. But the the man thearan
44:20
had mou who were essentially they they
44:23
reverse engineered the curse of flesh
44:24
and turned themselves back into stone
44:27
and they were continuing to do it for
44:30
thousands of years. Um so yeah between
44:34
that and the fact that we've got
44:35
friendly mou because of rod end which
44:37
would be hilarious
44:40
um to just have the mou show up like yes
44:42
we're here to help. Ah! Oh, no, no, no,
44:44
no. We're not the We're not those guys.
44:46
Dry eye next to him going, "Yeah, yeah,
44:47
don't tell me about it." Also, you don't
44:50
think we're like, "No, no. Let's not
44:52
think too hard about that. If it turned
44:54
out you guys were like Titan Forge of
44:57
Vargas, that would be really weird."
45:00
Everybody should now remember that the
45:02
Mou and the Dreni look almost exactly
45:03
the same. Anyway, yeah, I I definitely
45:06
think that the the Pandora have a could
45:08
have a much bigger role in Midnight for
45:12
that one. And definitely uh in the last
45:15
Titan or the Final Titan, whatever they
45:16
call it. It's the last Titan, right?
45:18
>> The Last Titan.
45:19
>> Last Titan. Yeah.
45:20
>> Yeah. Calling like having them be there
45:23
makes sense. Like there's groups like if
45:26
we're actually going to unite all these
45:28
different areas that were, you know,
45:30
created by or touched by the Titans. the
45:33
Pandora and all of their stuff is like
45:37
ev like every big place you went to when
45:40
you go to places like there's the the
45:43
you know the temples there's like
45:46
multiple raids that are inside Titan
45:48
structures I I really feel like it would
45:51
it would be it would be logical for them
45:53
to be involved in this.
45:56
>> Yeah. Uh I think uh unless you guys had
46:00
anything else to add. I think that
46:01
answers that question.
46:04
So, we're going to go ahead.
46:05
>> I mean, ultimately, I will actually
46:06
throw one more thing in while I'm
46:07
talking.
46:07
>> Sure. Yeah, please.
46:09
>> Um,
46:11
we had like currently the they moved the
46:14
the monk
46:16
like the place that the monks were has
46:19
had their home that got moved to a
46:21
different place in Legion, right?
46:22
Because the uh the original on the
46:24
turtle one got destroyed. Or is it the
46:26
one that No, it was the one in the
46:29
mountains um near uh Kunai that got
46:32
destroyed and they moved to the turtle.
46:34
So currently monks all live on the
46:35
turtle, right?
46:36
>> I think that's I think that's correct.
46:39
>> I want the turtle back. I want that
46:41
turtle to be in a boss fight someday.
46:44
Not to be something we [laughter] fight.
46:46
Can you just imagine that turtle walking
46:48
to the shore and like picking itself up?
46:51
And it's like got these, you know, it's
46:53
got it's like a sea turtle, so it
46:55
doesn't really have feet. It's got these
46:57
giant flippers, but it comes up out of
46:59
the water. And it's it's one of the
47:02
largest animals.
47:02
>> You just want a game fight.
47:05
>> I I do. I really do. I want [laughter]
47:07
like I want multiple kaiju to be
47:10
completely honest with you. But yeah, I
47:12
would love to see like the turtle just
47:14
come walking out of the water someday to
47:16
defend Azeroth against something. You
47:19
know, finally someone told the turtle
47:22
what was going on. The reason the turtle
47:23
didn't get involved before was nobody
47:24
bothered to inform it and like some
47:26
young like imagine some young pen goes
47:29
we asked the turtle for help and they're
47:30
like honey we can't just ask the turtle
47:33
cuz I did and he said he'll do it you
47:36
you talked to the shen how just went up
47:40
to him. He's right down there like we're
47:43
standing on him. I just walked up and
47:44
said hey Mr. turtle. Uh, bad bad guys
47:47
from space are coming. And he said,
47:49
"Okay, I don't like people from space.
47:52
Go see various movies where Gamer goes
47:54
to space specifically to kick butt." Um,
47:57
so yeah, I just if if a if we could have
47:59
the, you know, Shenzin, you know, come
48:01
up out of the water and fight a giant
48:04
monster with a big knife for a head, I'd
48:05
be okay with that. [laughter]
48:07
[gasps]
48:08
>> All right. Well, we're going to move on
48:09
to our last uh question, I think, of or
48:12
pair of questions depending on how long
48:13
it takes. Uh, this one comes from
48:16
Senpai. Uh, could you all do a deep dive
48:20
and filling in the blanks as far as
48:22
Azerite, Kajmite, and Alm Dust go? The
48:25
first thing I noticed about the rift and
48:27
the dust is that it's the same color
48:29
scheme of as Azerite.
48:32
Um, you're in we're in we're in tinfoil
48:35
territory for this because we don't know
48:37
the official relation between all of
48:39
them. at least nothing that I have read
48:42
or have access to currently. So Matt and
48:45
I had a wild tear when Azerite first
48:50
became a thing in game that it was
48:54
always related to Komite.
48:57
Um that there the it was either maybe a
49:00
refined version of Azerite or a
49:04
unrefined version of Azerite. It's hard
49:06
to tell because we know that goblins
49:11
became the way they are as a result of
49:15
basically consuming and being in contact
49:18
with kajomite because they were a small
49:21
not very bright race of critters that
49:25
were enslaved to farm kajomite. Uh, and
49:28
then they became the mad geniuses that
49:31
they are, uh, and had a penchant for
49:34
blowing things up. And we know also
49:37
through the goblin starting area and the
49:40
quests that were available when they
49:41
became a playable race that it doesn't
49:45
just only affect them. It also there was
49:49
the whole subplot with the gorillas
49:52
where there were smart gorillas. And
49:54
what made the gorillas smart? Cashmite.
49:57
It it seems like a less volatile version
50:01
at least in in terms of physiology than
50:04
Azerite because the thing we do know is
50:06
that direct exposure to Azerite
50:08
including what was on the scepter of
50:10
Giwix's
50:12
uh you know his little his little ball
50:14
of concentrated Azerite uh as well as
50:18
the people who touched part uh parts of
50:20
Azerite is that yes it expanded your
50:23
your knowledge in the moment uh but in
50:26
some cases made people very very sick or
50:29
it wasn't permanent. It wasn't stable.
50:32
So like
50:34
Sylvanas touching the uh the the ball in
50:37
the scepter of Gwix having all of the
50:40
universe essentially expand in front of
50:42
her, which this is a problem for many
50:45
reasons that will come back in other
50:47
expansions and likely how she knew that
50:48
the jailer and all that stuff existed,
50:50
but the whole other thing there. Um, and
50:53
then as soon as she was no longer in
50:55
contact with it, that went away. And we
50:57
saw the same thing happen with Anduin, I
51:00
believe, as well when he touched a
51:01
fragment of it. I it it's momentary or
51:05
Azerite is not as permanent or long
51:09
mutating as caselite is. Uh, and dust
51:14
has been recently introduced in a way
51:15
that we have no idea really what it is.
51:17
We know that it is of the goddess. Um,
51:21
what that means can be any number of
51:23
things. Uh, is it parts of a loon who is
51:27
often referred to as a goddess and tied
51:29
with a lot of the natural cycle of of
51:31
the plant stuff. Uh, is it a piece of
51:34
Anrar or fragments of Anarrar that were
51:36
left behind? Uh, because the world trees
51:39
were planted by well, Anarr, right? Um,
51:44
Ganer was gifted by Aloon. Yes, if I'm
51:47
remembering that correctly. Is that
51:48
correct, Matt? Eric.
51:50
>> Yes, I believe so. It was the the first
51:52
the very first not even a world tree,
51:55
you know, the mother of them who lives
51:56
in the Emerald Dream.
51:58
>> Yeah. The branch of Guinea. Um and so it
52:02
could be a result of that. It could be a
52:04
result of uh being tied to another
52:07
cosmic being of which you know the tree
52:11
Gene is. Uh because that could also be
52:14
referencing as a goddess because Gineir
52:16
is a living thing. And with all of the
52:19
world tree roots coming down to the
52:21
cradle, that could mean any number of
52:24
things. It could be it it could be
52:25
pieces of Azeroth. It could be dust from
52:27
from that. It could be leftover dust
52:30
from you know Gene.
52:33
It could be Anar. It could be another
52:35
Titan. It could be any number of things.
52:39
We don't know yet. We do know that
52:42
contact with it allows
52:45
and and here's the weird part and why I
52:47
think it has more to do with maybe ANR
52:49
and LON than it does the other ones. It
52:51
manifests dreams. It manifests thoughts.
52:56
So,
52:58
Chimeis, one of the bosses that we fight
53:00
in the raid tiers here, it's the
53:02
solitary uh raid boss in the Rift of
53:05
Alm,
53:07
is a manifestation of a nightmare in
53:11
pain
53:13
that was given form through the alm
53:16
dust.
53:18
The ads that you fight while doing that
53:21
are given form through the alm dust in
53:25
part of the questing where we are
53:27
collecting almond dustfree use to break
53:30
the song of the the the light and uh
53:34
clear the mind of the plant creatures
53:36
that are being infested and overtaken by
53:38
the light bloom. uh we have to kill
53:42
these manifestations and essentially
53:45
harvest the dust from them. So, we don't
53:49
know exactly what it is yet. We haven't
53:50
really spent a whole lot of time digging
53:51
into it. We haven't really had time to.
53:54
Uh although I will say that we are
53:56
moving into
53:58
interstitial space uh between major
54:00
content patches that hey Blizzard this
54:03
would probably be a good time to explore
54:04
some of that stuff with side questing
54:06
while we're waiting for the next you
54:07
know major threat to to pop up. What do
54:10
you guys think? Do you have any thoughts
54:12
on the connection between all three of
54:13
these or what they are?
54:15
>> I do but I want to see let Eric go
54:16
first.
54:18
I have been interested in the idea that
54:22
they're some version of pure and refined
54:24
each other. Um or influenced each other,
54:29
you know, like Azerite is kaja mightite
54:33
that has been influenced by order
54:36
because the titans have been messing
54:38
around on the planet for so long. I I
54:41
also notice that in uh when we're when
54:46
we're down with the roots, we have to
54:48
gather the almond dust to stop the light
54:50
bloom because we notice that uh that
54:55
some of the um some of the seeds coated
54:58
in almond dust didn't change and didn't
55:00
get infected. So, we see something
55:03
similar with kajamite [snorts]
55:05
and being able to stabilize the black
55:07
blood. can start to influence and change
55:09
these other things. And so how is that
55:13
going to like I feel like the
55:14
explanation is out there and it's not
55:16
these aren't things that are so long ago
55:18
that now someone has to come up with a
55:20
way to tie them together. I feel like
55:22
this was all deliberate over the last
55:25
few years to try to figure out how
55:27
they're going to tell the story of us
55:29
figuring out what this stuff is and
55:32
what's going on. Um, so it will be
55:35
interesting to see as we keep exploring.
55:39
I know we're going back to Harendar to
55:41
get some more story pretty soon. Um, any
55:44
little tidbit, any little clue could be
55:46
what kind of unlocks at at least
55:49
crossing some stuff off the list of what
55:50
it could be.
55:55
>> Matt,
55:57
what is the Emerald Dream?
55:59
>> A miserable P. I'm sorry. Wait, no. It's
56:02
supposedly a backup copy of Azeroth.
56:07
>> If something came from the Emerald
56:09
Dream, which the Rift of Alm is inside
56:11
the dream.
56:12
>> Mhm.
56:14
>> If something came from the Emerald
56:15
Dream, it would be an object that was
56:18
itself made of dreams.
56:23
Dreams are unconscious or subconscious
56:26
ideas. They are amalgamations of things
56:29
you've experienced, things you've
56:30
imagined. They can be completely wildly
56:34
unreal or almost completely believably
56:37
real. And I think what you're looking at
56:42
with the alm dust is the residue of the
56:46
transition between pure thought
56:49
and pure imagination and an actual
56:52
physical existence. physical existence
56:55
has to have rules to it. Dreams don't
56:58
have rules. Like in a dream, you can one
57:00
second be talking to a friend, the next
57:02
second you're an orange, the next second
57:04
you're in a game show. Um
57:07
that that's not reality. Reality has
57:10
rules and in order to it. And
57:14
the more I think about what kajimeite is
57:17
and what it does, I keep coming back to
57:20
the idea
57:24
what if kajumite is a pron-based
57:26
disorder.
57:28
Um or more accurately the effects of it
57:32
are similar to that like to in you know
57:34
spongformalopathy
57:35
where you eat this stuff and you get the
57:40
disorder and it changes the way you
57:42
think except it doesn't rot your brain
57:45
so much as it's
57:47
the the the literally the ideas in the
57:51
kajamite are imparted to you when you
57:55
consume kajamite. You don't suddenly
57:58
understand how to do engineering. You
57:59
literally see the thing. You get the
58:03
idea of how to make this. And that's why
58:06
a lot of goblin stuff, they kind of like
58:09
have to stop and go back and look at it
58:11
to try to figure out how it works
58:13
because they don't know. They just I had
58:17
the idea to make it
58:20
and I now that I've done it I I remember
58:23
doing it but I don't remember anything
58:26
about the process because I didn't
58:27
actually learn it. I just had the idea.
58:32
Um and I think it's interesting that
58:34
Mimmeron was involved in this. Mimmeron
58:37
is involved in the origin of the
58:38
goblins. He found a bunch of something.
58:42
Uh, they've been hinted to be similar to
58:43
the the the what do you call them? The
58:47
pygmy things in
58:50
Aldun.
58:52
Uh,
58:54
yeah, the the the weird little guys. The
58:56
sand sand pygmy pygmies, right?
58:59
>> Yeah. I don't like that term. They
59:00
really should not call them that.
59:02
Anyway, those guys are supposedly
59:04
similar to the ancestor of goblins.
59:08
And we know that Mimmerron messed around
59:10
with them for a while, exposed them to
59:13
something,
59:15
and then was like, "Nah, I'm done. I'm
59:18
not I'm not coming up with anything
59:19
useful." And just sort of left them cuz,
59:21
you know, he'd been murdered and put
59:22
back in a robot body. He wasn't. He
59:25
Mimmeron now is not focused. Mimmeron
59:28
now is like an unmedicated person with
59:30
ADHD compared to where he used to be.
59:33
Um, I say this as an as a guy with ADHD
59:36
wants to get medicated if I even want to
59:37
think. Anyway, I think the more I think
59:40
about it, I think the kajumite is
59:43
essentially like imagine if you could
59:47
find somebody's thoughts.
59:50
Well, you can.
59:52
We've seen Magny do it.
59:54
>> Mhm. Oh, yeah.
59:55
>> Magny literally had Azeroth's thoughts
1:00:00
in his head. He's also shared those with
1:00:02
other people like like with Moira.
1:00:04
There's a whole thing in the comics
1:00:05
where he shares like his own thoughts
1:00:07
with Moira.
1:00:08
>> Yeah. Now, think about if Magny was say
1:00:14
8,000 ft tall
1:00:17
and buried in the ground and somebody
1:00:19
mined into his head
1:00:22
and took out the material.
1:00:26
might not look that dissimilar to
1:00:27
kajmite except that the kajmite's green.
1:00:30
So maybe the person that that was
1:00:32
getting dug out of was made out of
1:00:34
emerald instead of diamond.
1:00:39
And I think it kind of ties back to the
1:00:42
fact that we know there are giant
1:00:43
crystalline entities that are like
1:00:45
living things. We know them because the
1:00:48
dranai fly around in them. We know them
1:00:50
because there's one underneath the world
1:00:53
inside uh the area under Adornal that
1:00:57
has a bunch of humans trying to figure
1:00:59
out if it's worshipful or not. It's got
1:01:02
a light and a dark cycle
1:01:04
similar to the atomite crystals.
1:01:08
And we still don't know where an
1:01:12
or Mushon are. We don't know if if Aloon
1:01:15
is Mushon.
1:01:18
And I keep coming back to this idea. The
1:01:20
planet is the like the Titan is the
1:01:24
planet.
1:01:26
The Titan is a gigantic crystallin
1:01:28
entity. It just the crystals aren't all
1:01:32
shiny. Some of them are like iron
1:01:34
crystals. I mean, iron pyite crystals
1:01:36
exist. Lots of different materials
1:01:38
crystallize.
1:01:41
Like crystal might be the nervous system
1:01:43
of the entity that is Azeroth.
1:01:46
And we could be digging up various like
1:01:50
you've actually hit the the thought
1:01:52
node. You've now versus you've hit the
1:01:56
potentiality node. This is where it goes
1:02:00
from you've thought of something to you
1:02:02
make the something real.
1:02:04
>> And the fact that it it cuts into the
1:02:06
roof of Allen reminds me of the fact
1:02:09
that all of the titans we know of were
1:02:13
thrown bodily into this universe. The
1:02:16
world souls were tossed into this
1:02:18
universe, right?
1:02:19
>> As far as we know. Yeah,
1:02:21
>> that's what we were told. But Azeroth
1:02:24
feels more like it's being built,
1:02:28
doesn't it? Like it's got all these
1:02:29
different things coming to it from other
1:02:31
Zer Zeriths. There's Zerith Mortis,
1:02:33
Zerith Ordis. We don't even know all the
1:02:35
zeros, but they seem to be like
1:02:37
essentially there's this mechanism under
1:02:40
um you know Ice Crown Glacier that
1:02:44
serves to connect to Zerith Mortise
1:02:48
and it's enormous. Did Arthus build that
1:02:52
or was it there already?
1:02:55
Is it part of the being? Part of the
1:02:58
being from before
1:03:01
it had, you know, necrophotic parasite
1:03:05
old gods digging into it. Part of the
1:03:07
being from before the Titan showed up,
1:03:10
ripped one of them out, and caused a
1:03:12
huge wound that they then had to try to
1:03:13
rebuild. What if all of this stuff we're
1:03:16
seeing is stuff from before all that?
1:03:20
It's the original,
1:03:22
for lack of a better word, the original
1:03:23
corpus of Azeroth.
1:03:30
Food for thought.
1:03:31
>> Yeah. And that comes back to and I'm
1:03:33
going to just I'll stop after this, but
1:03:34
that comes back to the idea that the
1:03:36
rift of Allen and Allen itself might be
1:03:39
a dream
1:03:41
of Azeroth.
1:03:43
Yeah, it could be a dream of Azeroth or
1:03:45
the the other thing that I've seen post
1:03:47
for it and and again I we we got to call
1:03:50
it here soon um is that the rift of alm
1:03:54
is again how Xavius kind of snuck in the
1:03:58
nightmare into the dream and so it's a
1:04:02
breach of some type and that may play
1:04:04
into that as well.
1:04:06
>> Why?
1:04:06
>> Because we have this physical breach
1:04:08
>> Yes. of the world and there's going to
1:04:10
be a dream reference of it. There's
1:04:13
going to be you cannot rip a giant chunk
1:04:16
in a planet
1:04:17
and not have the planet if it's an
1:04:19
entity remember it even on our planet
1:04:22
that we live on right now we have traces
1:04:24
of ancient cataclysms. Are you going to
1:04:25
tell me that the thing that happened to
1:04:26
Azeroth and and then it had another bad
1:04:29
one where Kalindor got ruined? Oh no,
1:04:31
come on. Someone's going to remember
1:04:32
this. Yeah. Yeah.
1:04:36
All right. Well, I think that's going to
1:04:38
do it unless Eric, there's anything else
1:04:39
you want to add.
1:04:41
>> Uh, I'm going to suggest what I always
1:04:43
suggest, and I think that's we have to
1:04:44
go to the moon. I think Matt's right. We
1:04:46
need [laughter] to find out. Anche and
1:04:47
Mushe and all my favorite video games
1:04:48
end up on the moon in some way to find
1:04:50
something. So, we've been everywhere.
1:04:53
>> Wizards as big as the moon.
1:04:55
>> Let's go.
1:04:58
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[music]
#Games