Up next in 10
Our favorite things about World of Warcraft patch 12.1 are mostly related to Player Housing, if we're being for real. There are other things to look forward to — raids, delves, quests, and maybe lore if you're into that kind of thing — but yeah, we're mulling over a name change to HousingWatch. But the patch is still new, so that could change. Probably won't, but it could.
We're also excited that D.Mon is coming to Overwatch. Another character that's been on everyone's wishlist for years, D.Mon also has a lot of story associated with her, including a few new lore drops. Our cohosts are optimistic about what this means for Overwatch and the lore going forward. But, hold that thought, because the next news item is about the Microsoft management. Or at least, don't take a big swig of water here.
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0:05
[music]
0:11
Hello everybody and welcome to the
0:12
Blizzard Watch podcast. I am Matt. I am
0:15
with Liz Harper, the EIC of the site,
0:18
and Joe Perez, the computer brain who
0:21
does all of our technical things. Hello
0:22
to both of you.
0:24
>> Hello.
0:24
>> Hello.
0:26
Uh, we're gonna basically go straight
0:28
into talking about World of Warcraft
0:30
because patch 12.1 is releasing on
0:32
August 11th, which I mean,
0:34
>> it's live. It's It's live. We can just
0:36
say it's live.
0:37
>> It's live. It is happening right now.
0:39
It's happening. I get to do that again.
0:41
Um, there's I we have talked about the
0:43
patch quite a bit in the past. So rather
0:46
than try to give you an exhaustive list
0:48
of things we've already covered,
0:49
>> I do think we should, you know, kind of
0:51
recap it and what's I wonder what
0:53
everyone's favorite thing is in the
0:55
patch, what are you interested in? What
0:56
are you enjoying? What do you what do
0:58
you hate or don't care about?
1:00
>> My favorite thing is blueprints for
1:01
player housing because now I can look at
1:03
all your guys blueprints and not have to
1:04
figure out anything for myself.
1:06
>> Like, oh, I'll just steal this thing Joe
1:08
did. Oh, I'll just steal this thing Liz
1:09
did. That's that's going to be me
1:12
because I don't I don't have time. I
1:14
will be posting blueprint codes inside
1:16
of better better gnomes and gardens
1:17
inside of our our Discord. Uh but I'm
1:20
super excited about that too because
1:21
like I I I've mentioned this before and
1:23
I posted some pictures of it. Uh I
1:25
finally finished my uh hidden library uh
1:29
with the little the little study room
1:30
and the bed and all that other stuff. Uh
1:32
after buying so so many magnificent
1:36
bookcases. So many.
1:38
>> I do not I do not have the money to
1:40
import that room.
1:42
No, but other people do. Um, and also I
1:46
may or may not have cornered the auction
1:47
house market uh for those for like two
1:50
weeks till I got the price down to like
1:52
18 grand as opposed to 150 grand. Um,
1:56
yes, I did this because I needed a room.
1:58
But I'm excited because the rest of the
2:00
house I have new vision for. I have new
2:03
ideas for what I want to put in it. But
2:06
breaking down that room to me was a
2:09
non-starter, right? like and being able
2:12
to have the blueprint so then I can
2:13
break everything else down, move
2:15
everything around and then put it back
2:16
up. Oh. Oh, I've been waiting for this.
2:19
I literally have been begging for this
2:20
since day one. So, whoever decided to
2:23
green lit green light this, I'm going to
2:25
give you a hug when I see you.
2:27
[laughter]
2:28
>> Have to hug absolutely everybody on the
2:30
dev team.
2:30
>> I will. I will.
2:32
>> He'll do it. Go ahead, Liz.
2:35
>> The the thing is housing launched and it
2:38
was a ton of fun. I mean, housing has
2:39
been a ton of fun and really exciting
2:41
since day one, but it was missing some
2:44
kind of basic tools. And one of those is
2:46
blueprints. So, you can like save your
2:50
work, save what you have been working on
2:53
so that you can try other cool creative
2:55
things. Or let's say you want to
2:58
decorate for the season. Let's say
2:59
you've got a summer theme with a
3:01
swimming pool outside that you want, but
3:04
in winter you want to make it like a
3:06
winter wonderland. Well, if you did that
3:09
previously, you had to lay out all of
3:13
that stuff and then remove bits and
3:16
pieces by hand afterwards and set it
3:19
back up the way it was. You had to do
3:20
all of that manually. So just being able
3:23
to give yourself a save state on your
3:25
house, even if it wasn't anything else,
3:27
being able to do that is incredibly good
3:30
and feels like an incredibly important
3:32
tool that just kind of should have been
3:33
a day one tool, but we we we got a good
3:36
thing and now it's better thing.
3:38
>> Well, that's mine. I mean, you basically
3:40
said it was yours, too.
3:41
>> Yeah, it's kind of also mine. I do also
3:43
like the fact that we're progressing the
3:45
story. I know some people are not uh
3:48
terribly happy about it because it's
3:50
like, "Oh, troll stuff." I like troll
3:53
stuff. I like the idea of the story
3:56
being uh about where we're going and and
3:58
what it's involving. Not going to throw
4:00
any spoilers out there. Um I like the
4:03
idea of NPCs that it's involving. uh
4:06
highly recommend that you know if you
4:08
haven't done the leadup stuff and you're
4:09
even tangentially really interested in
4:12
story that isn't Zalat
4:15
uh do like this this campaign section is
4:18
actually really cool um and I'm really
4:20
>> I think it's not really fair to just say
4:22
it's troll stuff.
4:23
>> It's not just troll stuff but I mean I'm
4:25
trying to simplify it for people that
4:26
maybe haven't caught up yet.
4:28
>> I I'm excited about it because of the
4:30
way it connects to other things. Yes,
4:32
>> it's actually and again trying really
4:34
hard not to spoil things.
4:36
>> It it connects to so many different
4:38
things in so many different ways and it
4:40
does that without ch like spoon feeding
4:43
you the exposition like that sometimes
4:46
that's that happens. It's it's to a
4:48
certain degree it's unescapable in a
4:51
game this big and complex there.
4:52
Sometimes they're just going to have to
4:53
just come out and tell you, but they
4:55
didn't this time. It's stuff that flows
4:57
organically from questing and so forth.
4:59
And I've done more of it on, you know,
5:01
various other ways than to actually play
5:03
it. So, that's that's something I'm
5:06
actually looking forward to getting to
5:07
play it this time.
5:09
Uh yeah, this this story makes me want
5:12
to get on the lore watch where you're
5:14
talking about this story just so I can
5:16
constantly scream what the what are we
5:20
that' be that would be my entire
5:21
contribution but that's I that's what I
5:25
feel like doing. Uh, it's just this is a
5:29
product of so many poor life choices and
5:32
I hope I hope it turns out to be have
5:35
more depth than it currently
5:38
looks like to me because I watched the
5:42
patch 12.0 release trailer and I was
5:45
like, "Oh,
5:46
oh, this is what we're doing. We we've
5:48
got a we've got Yeah. Okay. So,
5:51
[sighs and gasps]
5:52
we're doing this again. Okay, fine. I
5:55
I've done this before. I'll just sigh my
5:57
way through it. Uh yeah. Anyway, I
6:01
>> Is there something you'd like to talk
6:02
about? Like something that you enjoy for
6:04
this patch?
6:05
>> No.
6:07
>> No.
6:07
>> Explicitly.
6:09
>> Liz and I have had a conversation about
6:10
this offline and uh
6:12
>> it Yeah.
6:13
>> Yeah. I [laughter] mean, I don't I don't
6:15
want to spoil I I this has been, you
6:18
know, the stuff I'm kind of upset about
6:19
has been things that Blizzard has put
6:21
out there in trailers, but I don't want
6:23
to get into it here because I'm sure
6:25
some people have not yet seen these
6:26
trailers and I don't I I don't want to
6:29
mess things up for anyone else who may
6:30
enjoy it more than I do because if you
6:32
enjoy the story, awesome. That is great.
6:36
It is made to be enjoyed and I am glad
6:38
that you were happy. I'm
6:40
>> You might right
6:43
>> I am looking forward to the raid. I I
6:45
always like raiding. Not
6:49
>> Okay, this is going to sound negative. I
6:53
always enjoy raiding. Not necessarily
6:55
because the raid is fun, but I enjoy
6:58
hanging out with people. And whenever
7:00
there's not new content, whenever
7:02
there's not like a raid or something big
7:03
to do, then
7:06
I I don't hang out with people as much
7:08
because we're doing our own things.
7:09
We're doing things at different times
7:10
and we don't have that kind of together
7:13
time to just hang out and chat and just
7:17
goof around sometimes. So, I'm I always
7:21
look forward to that when we get a new
7:22
major patch because this just means more
7:25
time with my friends. And that's always
7:27
whether the game is amazing or the game
7:30
is terrible right now, that's always
7:32
great. The people in the end make the
7:35
game. And uh yeah, this is this is more
7:38
time to hang out. That is always good.
7:40
That's always a positive.
7:44
Uh but yeah, [laughter]
7:46
you can't
7:47
>> I Well, go ahead.
7:49
>> You also can't win them all. You know,
7:51
not every patch, not every piece of
7:53
content is going to be a hit with every
7:54
person. And that's just part of being
7:56
this big expansive game that's been here
7:59
for 22 years. Mhm.
8:00
>> It's not No one is going to love every
8:03
little bit and piece and every little
8:05
nook and cranny, but there's a lot of
8:08
things for different people. And that's
8:09
the point. That's the point of a game
8:11
that's this sprawling.
8:12
>> Yeah. With the nook and cranny's
8:13
argument. I mean, if I was eating a
8:15
Thomas English muffin, I don't want
8:17
there to be a snake raid in there. Uh
8:19
that particular cranny would not be one
8:20
I enjoy. But no, regardless, however, I
8:23
do want to also point out in addition to
8:24
stuff we've talked about, the new delves
8:26
are interesting to me. just as a person
8:27
who I like content I can attempt to
8:30
solo. Uh that's nice.
8:33
>> I just I out of all the content Blizzard
8:36
has added recently, this delves are my
8:39
favorite. I really enjoy delves because
8:41
I can do them on my own. I can do them
8:43
with a group. They have some variety in
8:46
the scenarios in delves that um make
8:49
them a little different each time. And I
8:52
just Yeah, delves are my thing. I'm
8:54
going to do uh in any given season, I
8:56
probably do more delves than I do any
8:58
other type of content except for
8:59
raiding. And that's just because raiding
9:02
takes a huge amount of time.
9:03
>> No, I think you I think you wind up
9:05
doing way more delves than you do
9:06
raiding.
9:08
>> Just looking Just looking at looking at
9:09
your activity log, I see you in Del a
9:12
lot.
9:13
>> Yeah, it's just we raid like six hours a
9:15
week. That adds up really fast,
9:19
>> maybe. But yeah, I don't do I don't do a
9:21
lot of M plus, but I'll yeah, log on and
9:23
do delves every week uh to get all my my
9:26
little bits and pieces and rewards. So,
9:29
it's a really great way to gear up and
9:30
and just get crests and just do things.
9:34
So, I I feel like Blizzard's always
9:37
trying to add well, not always. Blizzard
9:39
keeps trying to add evergreen content,
9:41
right? because obviously you want your
9:43
evergreen content, but some things have
9:46
been a real hit with me and some things
9:47
are less of a hit with me. Delves is a
9:49
hit. Delves has been a huge hit for me
9:51
personally.
9:53
>> Okay. Uh at this point, we're going to
9:54
move on a little bit and talk about
9:56
Twitch drop because the Twitch drop is
9:59
you guys know what Twitch drops are. You
10:00
have to like watch a channel while
10:02
somebody is playing World of Warcraft in
10:04
this case. And after you hit the amount
10:07
you're supposed to watch it, you get,
10:09
you know, if you've linked your account
10:10
so that they can give it to you, you
10:12
get, in this case, a green wizard hat
10:15
and a cape, which I mean, I I'm always
10:18
down for a cape transmog, even though
10:20
I've never used them ever. Um, it's
10:24
weird. I don't use capes in my transmogs
10:27
nine times out of 10. And yet I think I
10:29
have more capes than anything else
10:32
because anytime a cape drops I'm like,
10:34
"Yay! Yoink. It's a nature collection
10:37
now. Do you gonna use that that orange
10:39
cape?" No. Never. It's It's hideous. Why
10:43
are you so happy? Cuz it's a cape. Uh
10:46
and so I'm I'm excited just for that. Uh
10:48
and that this particular wizard, you
10:50
know, cape and hat are color matched and
10:53
and that's good. Honestly,
10:55
>> I think it's just one piece. I think
10:57
it's just a single maybe I'm wrong.
11:00
Okay, never mind.
11:00
>> I can't tell by looking at it, but it
11:02
says sorcerers glassy garb variant to
11:05
the wizard hat and cloak transmog. So,
11:07
it could in fact be that. I don't see if
11:11
it's separated. As far as I can tell, it
11:14
is one piece.
11:15
>> Anyway, anyway, it is still it's color
11:17
matched properly. It's nice that way.
11:20
Uh, it's a shade of green I've seen on
11:21
other things. Uh, here's here's the
11:24
thing, and I I know Liz has suffered
11:25
with this one her entire, you know,
11:27
since Transite came out. There are
11:29
certain colors that every time they're
11:31
used, they're slightly different.
11:34
>> There are so many different hues of gold
11:39
that have been used on on armor in this
11:41
game that you almost can't make a full
11:45
transmog of of separate nonset pieces
11:48
that doesn't have some glaring color
11:50
dis. You know, this one's like a pale
11:52
white gold. Then you've got the brass
11:54
looking pants. [snorts]
11:55
>> And and don't forget don't forget the
11:58
bright yellow blood elf gold and then
12:00
kind of the pale bright kyrion gold. And
12:04
Yeah. Yeah.
12:06
>> And it's I mean blue they do this with
12:07
blue as well. Um there's quite a
12:09
different variety of blues, but there's
12:10
enough blues that match that you can
12:12
still get around it while some pe some
12:14
colors just No. Um, [snorts] there's a
12:18
set that I use a lot that's actually not
12:20
a set. It's uh items that dropped in
12:23
Legion that just all look the same that
12:26
there's no actual set pieces. They're
12:28
just this this helmet goes with these
12:30
shoulders goes with this chest plate and
12:31
it's one of my favorites and I use it
12:33
all the time. It is the only if you try
12:36
to match those pieces with any other
12:38
gold adjacent armor in the game, it will
12:42
not work except for the brute belt from
12:46
original the original game. That is the
12:48
only piece that matches the same color
12:50
profile as this set. It drives me crazy
12:54
because that belt is extremely hard to
12:56
get. It It's an old green. People are
12:59
selling it on the AH4 literally millions
13:02
of gold because it just doesn't drop. I
13:05
still don't actually have it
13:08
and it's driving me completely insane.
13:11
Like sometimes I I just sit there and
13:13
stare at it and on the auction house and
13:15
just kind of make a noise like an Aikita
13:17
that you're holding food away from and
13:19
then I have to leave because I can't. So
13:21
So Transmog does have issues. this
13:24
Twitch drop, this hat and cape look. It
13:26
is not my cup of tea, but it is a really
13:28
nice cape and I love capes. So, either
13:31
of you guys want to talk about it before
13:32
we move on?
13:34
>> Uh, no. Except this is also something
13:36
we've seen in the trading post in
13:38
different color variations. So, if you
13:41
if you love this, there there are lots
13:43
of different colors. Just watch the
13:44
trading post. Uh, next up we're going to
13:48
talk about Overwatch. Um, because
13:50
they're getting their new season, um,
13:52
which is releasing on yet again August
13:55
11th, so it's already happened. Um, it's
13:58
got new cosmetics, the new battle pass,
14:00
of course, the the whole deal. Uh, then
14:02
they have Mecca Squadron leader Demon is
14:05
getting finally introduced. And I know
14:08
that they've talked about Don before. I
14:10
don't know if we actually saw Demon
14:12
before. Was she in one of the videos?
14:13
>> No, but she was referenced.
14:15
Sorry. Go ahead, Liz.
14:16
>> Yeah, she's been referenced, but it's
14:18
tiny tiny stuff.
14:21
>> Yeah, I think uh some of the stuff with
14:24
uh Div.A has referenced the the Mecca
14:28
Squadron before. Uh but this is the
14:31
first time we actually get to see uh and
14:34
have a fully fleshed out character, in
14:36
this case, the squadron leader, which I
14:38
think is actually really interesting
14:39
because I think a lot of people thought
14:40
that that was uh D.Va. Instead, D.Va DVA
14:44
was just the ace pilot. Also a tank, but
14:47
an a an ace pilot.
14:48
>> Well, I remember the the D.VA cinematic
14:50
trailer they had for years ago. It was
14:52
her and like was it like her brother who
14:54
was working on the armor for her? Um he
14:57
was like her technician or it's just her
14:59
friend who was a technician. I just
15:00
remember that that they were like
15:01
fighting outside Busousan and all that.
15:04
So, it's cool to see another member of
15:06
the squad. Quite frankly, I I like the
15:09
armor a lot more uh than Divas. Um, I
15:13
just I like big swords. I cannot lie.
15:16
[laughter] And this this robot's got a
15:18
big sword.
15:19
>> I I do kind of wonder about this this
15:21
naming convention. Is it just D
15:24
something you can say? It's D something
15:27
to turn it into.
15:28
>> My guess is that's the the Mecca
15:30
squadron designation is like squadron D.
15:34
And it's not it's not abnormal for Navy
15:38
pilots to have squadron and call sign.
15:42
Uh so in this case it read to me or at
15:44
least the way I looked at it is Dmon is
15:48
you know the squadron call sign just
15:51
like DVA is squadron call sign. So, all
15:54
of them are probably in the D family,
15:57
which I think is kind of cool. And it's
15:58
a neat little nod to real life. Uh
16:01
especially considering Overwatch is
16:02
supposed to be the future of, you know,
16:05
our world, which I think is really neat.
16:07
Uh because again, that's something you
16:08
would you would potentially see uh like
16:13
here. Like I I
16:15
>> I think this is public knowledge. Um
16:19
there was a Navy squadron that was a
16:20
training squadron a while ago in real
16:22
life. they were the pep squad pep um and
16:26
so everybody's call sign incorporated
16:30
that uh so you could you know think like
16:33
there was pep burr and like others like
16:35
that so it was just it's again something
16:37
they do which is a really nice nod I
16:39
also really like the character design uh
16:42
not just in the mech suit but out of the
16:44
mech suit as well yes it's a skin tight
16:47
flight suit that's that is what it is um
16:51
but it's human portions and uh game that
16:55
most of the characters are extremely
16:57
overexaggerated. Uh also I appreciate
17:00
the fact that she doesn't look like
17:01
she's 12. Um no no shade to div.a or
17:05
anything like that. Um it's just that
17:08
D.Va is young and that is the character
17:10
and this one is an adult and looks like
17:13
an adult. Uh also
17:15
>> really interesting too I I got to say
17:16
this about the story of the character is
17:18
that unlike D.Va who is, you know, still
17:21
relatively new to it. This is a a person
17:24
who was a pro gamer and has been doing
17:27
this for years. She was basically signed
17:31
up for this the squadron and has been
17:34
doing it for years and is now grown
17:37
through that. This is an adult person
17:39
who started off a gremlin like diva and
17:42
now were there like 15 years later and
17:44
is now a fullyfledged adult who has to
17:46
look back and go, "Oh my god, was I like
17:49
this? Was I this bad? I couldn't have
17:51
been this bad." But maybe I was. Oh, oh
17:54
no. Oh no. I I like that idea that
17:57
they're bringing in the, you know,
17:58
grizzled old veteran and it's still a
18:01
relatively young woman, but is a
18:04
grizzled veteran just because she's been
18:06
doing this for so long. Um, and it also
18:10
kind of I'm hoping that we're going to
18:12
start to see more Overwatch story coming
18:14
back.
18:15
>> That's that's I think one of the biggest
18:17
things that I was sort of excited about
18:19
a little bit. Um, there's a couple other
18:21
things we can we can talk about real
18:22
quick because I don't know uh how many
18:24
people are going to be super interested
18:26
in this, but like she has a voice actor
18:28
and her voice actor is Lily Picchu, uh,
18:30
the streamer and, uh, Lily Pichu
18:33
actually read the short story cinematic
18:35
audio book that accompanied the release
18:37
uh, which gives you the the backstory.
18:41
Uh, and she also talked about it on her
18:43
most recent stream. But it was very nice
18:46
to see them putting effort into giving a
18:50
character something, right? Like giving
18:53
that character a a personality and then
18:57
somebody like Lily Pichu very clearly is
19:00
invested in this character that they
19:01
portrayed, which I think is really cool.
19:03
And I think all the Overwatch voice
19:05
actors feel really invested in the
19:07
characters they play. Looking at Darren
19:09
Depal as a really premium example. Um,
19:13
but like his defense. Also, Darren Deal
19:15
tends to be very invested in everything
19:17
he plays.
19:18
>> I agree. Um, but it's just it's nice to
19:21
see and I and again with the uh the
19:25
story that comes with it and the audio
19:27
the cinematic audio book that came with
19:28
it. It feels a little bit like they're
19:31
trying to get back to what made
19:33
Overwatch great a little bit. And I'm
19:35
hoping that they this is a sign of good
19:37
things to come that it will progress
19:39
forward. they will continue to do such
19:43
things uh and and you know maybe invest
19:46
in their world a little bit more. So it
19:49
I I feel like I'm Corey here and I'm
19:54
huffing a little bit of copium oropium
19:57
uh that they're going to to go ahead and
19:59
you know revitalize something that was a
20:02
really good a good portion of a a large
20:04
number of years for me. [laughter]
20:08
I mean, I don't know. I I feel like at
20:11
this point, it would be good and and
20:14
there's reason to believe that Overwatch
20:15
is on the upswing that we might talk
20:17
about in a little bit. Um, it would be
20:20
good at this point if Overwatch got its
20:21
game up to the point where it and and
20:23
Marvel Rivals could actually be rivals
20:26
because then they could push each other
20:28
and we'd see improvements from either
20:30
influenced by the other. And I think
20:33
games are generally in a better place
20:35
when they have that kind of development
20:37
going on.
20:38
>> You know, I agree and we can go back to
20:40
WoW a little bit on that that particular
20:42
topic. Um, and I think that that's a
20:44
really good example. Like WoW when it
20:47
released, it wasn't the only game in
20:49
town. There were so many MMOs and there
20:52
was a huge MMO boon happening and WoW
20:56
was p like they were all pushing each
20:58
other to try to be better and not all of
21:01
them succeeded but it did push them to
21:03
be better and incorporate more things
21:05
and I agree games like Overwatch and
21:07
hero shooters um and things like that is
21:12
very very important. You need to have
21:15
competition to breed innovation. And I
21:19
said this way back when when we first
21:21
started talking about Marvel Rivals and
21:24
I getting me getting excited about that.
21:26
Yes, I was excited about Marvel Rivals,
21:28
but one of the first things I said is
21:30
I'm excited for Overwatch to actually
21:32
have competition cuz maybe they'll wake
21:33
up. And it seems like maybe, just maybe,
21:38
they're starting to. Yeah, I actually
21:40
will have to say right now that I have
21:41
to wonder how much of them them only now
21:44
starting to wake up is actually due to
21:47
outside factors from the whole
21:50
what was going on between 22 and now.
21:54
>> Yeah, but at the end of the at the end
21:55
of the day it doesn't matter. Go ahead,
21:56
Liz.
21:57
>> Overwatch has had a tough time of it
21:58
because they announced Overwatch 2 and I
22:00
think they announced Overwatch 2 with
22:02
all of the best intentions. I I don't
22:04
think there was anything like ah we're
22:06
just trying to get more money. were only
22:08
trying to give you microtransactions and
22:11
battle passes. I don't think that was
22:13
actually the driving force behind
22:15
Overwatch 2. I think they really meant
22:17
to add this story experience and they
22:20
really meant to do all these things and
22:21
it just didn't pan out and it kind of
22:23
fell into this dev hell cycle and in the
22:27
end they cancelled a lot of content and
22:29
all we got was Overwatch 2 until they
22:32
finally renamed it Overwatch again.
22:35
>> Yeah. I feel like when when a company
22:38
takes away the two and the game bounces,
22:41
like more people play now they've gotten
22:43
rid of Overwatch 2,
22:45
>> that says something.
22:46
>> I mean, I think it's a good thing that
22:48
they've
22:50
you've got to admit that the Overwatch 2
22:52
thing didn't work out. I mean, you've
22:53
got to admit that and and uh and bounce
22:56
back because
22:59
everyone was looking for Overwatch 2
23:01
because of all the content they
23:02
promised, because of the story mode and
23:05
that
23:05
>> and because of the faith in the
23:06
developers working on the project, too.
23:08
Don't forget that part.
23:09
>> Yeah. And I mean, it's a shame, but it
23:12
sounds like they were they were working
23:13
on this and they just couldn't get it to
23:15
work out gameplay-wise
23:17
and they just it dragged the whole thing
23:19
down. But uh
23:21
>> and and there was yeah
23:23
>> you hit on something I think is also
23:25
really important, Liz, that I think is
23:27
something that I wish more developers
23:29
did is it's never a bad thing to admit
23:33
you made a mistake and that you're
23:36
correcting that mistake. We got to a
23:38
point where a lot of the developers uh
23:41
like a lot of the AAA developers refuse
23:43
to do that and I think that hurts them
23:46
more than it helps them. And it's okay.
23:48
Like it's okay. Hey, we missed the mark.
23:51
We're going to work on course correcting
23:52
or making a better experience. I mean,
23:55
we talk about games like No Man's Sky
23:59
where they did exactly that, right? And
24:01
and look how beloved that game is now.
24:03
So, like
24:04
>> Cyberpunk 2077,
24:05
>> Cyberpunk 2077, another prime example of
24:08
a game that that misses Mark for a
24:10
myriad of reasons and then they said,
24:12
"Yeah, we messed up and we're going to
24:15
fix it." And then they fixed it. like
24:18
you you can do that especially with
24:21
something where you have that much brand
24:23
uh buy in and I think hopefully they can
24:27
do this and at least move forward.
24:29
>> But also mentioned the there's also an
24:31
event going on September 1st to
24:33
September 14th which is the Overwatch
24:35
World Cup which is the esports event
24:37
that's going to end up heading to
24:39
Blizzcon after. And that one's another
24:42
streaming one where you can watch it on
24:44
Twitch and if you do there's in-game
24:46
stuff. I don't think they've told us
24:48
what the instream stuff is yet.
24:50
>> I don't think so.
24:53
>> Don't Don't worry. I will very I will
24:55
very much be uh a person who talks about
24:57
it because I've been on a hero shooter
24:59
kick lately. So, I'm paying attention.
25:01
I'm paying attention.
25:04
So, we were talking a minute ago about
25:07
Overwatch having this competition
25:10
um Overwatch having competition with
25:13
Marvel rivals and how maybe that's
25:15
helped Overwatch up its game a little. I
25:18
wonder about World of Warcraft. I mean,
25:21
it's not the only MMO in town, but there
25:23
you're kind of there's kind of a few
25:25
entrenched games in this category. You
25:28
got your Guild Wars, you got your Final
25:29
Fantasy, and those are kind of your big
25:32
names. We've got Elder Scrolls Online,
25:33
but of course they just had
25:35
>> I think they just laid off half of that
25:37
team. So I don't know where that's
25:39
going. They were getting a big update,
25:41
but I think half of the team, literally
25:42
half the team is gone. So it's [snorts]
25:44
like what's the space here?
25:47
>> But at the same time, Guild Wars has
25:49
just announced Guild Wars 3, and it
25:52
looks amazing. It looks incredible. It's
25:55
great. Um,
25:56
>> oh, I want to get I want to get Calis on
25:58
here for an episode where we can just
25:59
geek out about Guild Wars 3 for for
26:02
ever.
26:03
>> So, I wonder what kind of pressure
26:05
having an actual new MMO from a proven
26:10
developer that is going to be there and
26:13
stay in and support us unlike we've seen
26:15
we've seen a lot of games come and go. I
26:17
I would like to point I would like to
26:19
point out here real quick that
26:22
>> they've already been doing that all
26:23
along and we complain we complain a lot
26:26
uh or maybe offer criticism a lot uh of
26:30
sometimes they try to cram too much into
26:32
the game too soon and I think that's
26:34
still valid but looking at some of the
26:36
things that they've added into the game
26:38
is
26:40
almost all things that their competitors
26:43
were doing first transmog player
26:46
housing, uh, delves, like things like
26:50
that are all stuff that otherarmmos have
26:53
been doing, uh, or or having the solo
26:56
queue and and things like that are
26:58
things that other games have been doing.
27:00
And yes, they incorporated and make
27:01
their own. And I'm not saying that
27:03
they're stealing the idea, but that if
27:07
it inspires them to add an improvement,
27:09
I'm here for it. Sorry, you were saying
27:12
something, Liz.
27:13
From from day one, World of Warcraft
27:17
when World of Warcraft launched, it
27:19
wasn't a game of original ideas.
27:21
>> No,
27:21
>> it it wasn't. I mean, it just did
27:23
better.
27:23
>> It was what it did.
27:25
>> Yeah. It pulled together all of these
27:27
elements of an MMO, all of these other
27:30
things that they saw other companies
27:31
doing, and it refined them into a slick
27:35
package that was an elevated experience
27:38
from what a lot of other games were
27:39
doing. Oh, and uh yeah, that does remind
27:42
me that when I was talking about
27:43
competition, I did not mention EverQuest
27:45
at all, which is
27:47
>> still there.
27:48
>> Older game, but both EverQuest and
27:50
EverQuest 2 are still live and hanging
27:53
in there. And I I'm saying hanging in
27:55
there like it's derogatory, but I don't
27:57
mean it derogatory.
27:58
>> No, I mean, let's let's put it this way.
28:00
They have recurring
28:03
continuous fan bases that are regularly
28:06
consistent over years. and buying
28:09
expansions. I mean, what EverQuest has
28:12
done like 20 expansions or something?
28:14
>> EverQuest puts on expansion almost every
28:16
year and EQ2 is close to that with like
28:18
a year and a half to two years. Um, I
28:21
think EQ2 has 20 and EverQuest, the
28:24
original EverQuest has like 25 or 26.
28:26
>> Yeah.
28:27
>> So, I mean, these are games and I wonder
28:30
what at what point does WoW feel the
28:32
pressure of this, the pressure to do
28:34
better and really up their game because
28:37
of the competition? I don't know.
28:39
>> Honestly, I think that it's been feeling
28:40
the pressure since uh Final Fantasy 14,
28:44
right?
28:44
>> Yeah, I would I would say that 14
28:46
informed a lot of the game updates.
28:48
>> Well, not only did it inform a lot of
28:49
the updates, it was the first time that
28:50
a game came up and straight up pushed
28:54
WoW to where it looked like they were
28:55
going to dethrone them,
28:56
>> which was also after they had a really
28:58
awful launch and admitted they were
29:00
wrong and then came back and redid
29:01
everything.
29:02
>> Yeah. And Yeah. They were to the point
29:04
where Final Fantasy 14 was a joke and
29:07
they decided no, we're not and we are
29:10
going to show you that we're not a joke.
29:12
And whether or not you like Final
29:14
Fantasy 14, and I'm not a huge fan of
29:16
the Final Fantasy games in in general,
29:19
>> you cannot argue with the results.
29:21
>> You can't for me, but it's it's good for
29:24
just like we were saying with Overwatch,
29:26
it's good for WoW to have competition
29:28
and it's good for different players to
29:30
have different things they can do. Yeah,
29:32
and for some people it's good that they
29:34
can play either of them or more of like
29:37
there was a period of time where
29:38
Overwatch was literally leaving a trail
29:40
of imitators murdered in its wake.
29:43
>> Uh and whilst it was funny to some
29:45
degree to see, oh paragonss, no that
29:48
didn't work. Uh at the same time, I
29:51
think it's better that we saw a game
29:54
come up and say, "No, you are not going
29:56
to just run us over. You are going to
29:59
have to cope with what we do. you're
30:01
going to have to look at it and think
30:02
about it. Um, it's it's not Team
30:06
Fortress is just out there being Team
30:08
Fortress. U Overwatch is almost a
30:10
completely different flavor of animal
30:11
from it,
30:12
>> but Rivals is basically eating Mar it
30:16
was eating Overwatch's lunch for a
30:17
while. I don't think you can argue that
30:19
it was straight up like coming in,
30:20
knocking it out of their hands, and
30:22
going, "Hey, did we mention we have like
30:24
all the Marvel characters and more
30:25
coming like constantly? Uh, go ahead. to
30:28
see if you can beat that. So, I think it
30:31
is good for Overwatch to a degree to
30:33
like have to actually respect and learn
30:36
from a a rival in a way that they
30:39
weren't getting. The first four or five
30:41
years of Overwatch was literally just,
30:43
oh god, another studio is doing this and
30:46
just watching it get ground into the
30:48
dirt. And yeah,
30:51
>> I I am really looking forward to seeing
30:53
how Guild Wars 3 turns out. Um, I mean,
30:55
narratively, it's a prequel to the other
30:57
games. I haven't kept up with Guilters.
31:00
I mean, I played the original way way
31:02
way back when, but I have not kept up
31:04
with any of that. So, I'm very
31:06
interested to see how this does coming
31:08
in with this big kind of polished game
31:11
that's a prequel and seeing how that
31:13
works and seeing
31:14
>> It's a distant prequel though, right?
31:15
Like they've got time.
31:16
>> Yeah. It's way back. It's not It's not
31:18
like a year ago. It's
31:20
>> It's like the E E El Elder Scrolls
31:22
Online where it's like several hundred
31:23
or even thousands of years earlier, so
31:25
you don't have to worry too much.
31:27
Uh, I think that's that's fine. I don't
31:29
mind those. Uh, that's one of the things
31:31
I liked about Star Wars: The Old
31:33
Republic, to be honest.
31:34
>> Which is another one that's that came up
31:36
and I think to a degree was unjustly
31:39
overlooked. Uh, I think the Old Republic
31:42
is actually a really good MMO. Um, it's
31:45
just not one that I can afford to play
31:47
because my god,
31:49
>> there there are a lot of them. There are
31:51
a lot of them. I guess now we should
31:53
talk about Hearthstone, which just means
31:56
basically making Liz talk for a while. I
31:58
feel bad.
31:59
>> There's There's not really much to say
32:01
here. We've got a new um uh a new little
32:05
one of their little gotch games which
32:07
has skins for Terellion and Ayria, which
32:10
I don't I don't know what theme skins
32:13
are supposed to be. Terrillion's kind of
32:15
purple and Ayria's very golden and
32:19
it'll cost you hundreds of dollars to
32:22
get these if you really want them
32:24
because
32:26
it's it's a it's a spin to win and the
32:29
first spin is free and after that it
32:32
goes up each time I think the second one
32:35
is two and then
32:38
I don't know I've never progressed
32:39
through this because the amount of money
32:41
you spend to get the top tier rewards is
32:44
really dreadful. Uh so yes, but there
32:47
are new rewards and you should if you're
32:48
playing Hearthstone, you should at least
32:49
go in and do your free spin and see if
32:51
you get lucky. Even though getting the
32:53
top rewards is something like a 0.1%
32:56
chance. Um so yeah, it's it's there.
33:01
[laughter] It exists.
33:02
>> I'm going to read this one to our
33:04
audience. Uh I got a card with a
33:05
beholder on it. Lol.
33:07
>> Yeah.
33:08
>> Um
33:09
>> I just like that note.
33:11
Uh yeah, I got a coin and that's that's
33:14
not very exciting. And it's some of
33:17
these are really heavily themed and some
33:19
of them are not themed. This one seems a
33:21
little random. It's a random terellion
33:23
and a random Yria and Okay. Okay, that's
33:26
that's fine. I don't understand what's
33:28
going on, but I'll take my free spin
33:30
anyway.
33:31
>> And now we're going to talk about I
33:33
think we're going to talk about other
33:34
games first because quite frankly, if we
33:36
missed the one that I put in, I wouldn't
33:38
be too upset. Um, I want to hear about
33:40
League of Legends Classic, Joe.
33:43
[laughter]
33:45
>> Okay. Uh, so this actually came up in uh
33:48
pre-show chat a little bit. Um, so if
33:53
you're listening to this podcast, you
33:54
are likely aware of World of Warcraft
33:56
Classic. Uh, a game that uh was released
34:00
to, you know, various adoption. People
34:04
love it, people hate it. Uh, but it was
34:07
supposed to be or at least originally
34:08
pitched as a return to a classic era of
34:12
the game. Uh, well, we're getting to
34:15
this point of our lives where a lot of
34:17
these games that are currently out
34:18
there, some of them have been around for
34:20
a very very long time. And one of those
34:24
games is League of Legends. So, over the
34:28
years, League of Legends has very
34:29
clearly uh evolved and changed and added
34:33
champions. There are so many there are
34:34
hundreds of champions that you can play
34:36
as. There's multiple maps and all sorts
34:39
of new things that you can do with it.
34:40
And the game is a far cry from where it
34:44
originally released. And when it you
34:49
getting to this point, people started
34:50
talking about, well, I missed the good
34:52
old days uh of uh you know, October of
34:56
2009 when this game first released. Uh
35:00
do you feel old yet? I feel old.
35:03
So they recently released this thing
35:06
where they're kind of answering that
35:07
question which is League of Legends
35:08
Classic. Uh so it's free to play just
35:12
like League of Legends was. Uh they are
35:14
releasing or did release a physical uh
35:18
release package that mimics the very
35:21
first physical release package that
35:23
League of Legends used to release where
35:25
you could spend 20 bucks, get a whole
35:27
bunch of champions unlocked and a bunch
35:29
of uh Riot points and other stuff in
35:31
game for the 20 bucks, but you literally
35:32
went to a physical store and bought it
35:35
and had a physical box with a physical
35:37
CD uh with the installer for the game on
35:40
it, which was, you know, that's a
35:42
novelty these days. Um, but they really
35:45
wanted to have a game mode that was
35:47
modeled uh very heavily after season 3,
35:50
which took place in 2013. Um, which was
35:53
a slower paced game, uh, with a more
35:57
open design philosophy, I think, than it
35:59
had now. Uh, where if you've played
36:01
during that time frame, things like
36:03
Jungle Vigar probably strikes fear in
36:06
your heart, uh, versus, you know, just
36:08
being an AP mid laner. Uh it wanted to
36:11
bring back the uh classic elements like
36:13
the old map layout, legacy items, items
36:15
that are no longer uh available in game
36:17
or have been changed so much through
36:19
balancing uh that they no longer
36:21
resemble what they once were. Uh as well
36:24
as the original champion kits, which
36:27
means abilities, spells, voice lines, uh
36:30
and to varying degrees skins, which is a
36:32
controversial thing based off of the
36:34
original release of the games because
36:36
again, this game's been out for a while.
36:38
uh your champions have gone through
36:40
visual updates as well as balance
36:42
changes. Some have had complete almost
36:44
all of them at this point have had
36:46
complete reworks introducing new
36:47
abilities, kits, and passives. So,
36:49
returning back to that. Uh and then old
36:52
legacy systems uh like the with their
36:56
rune system or their essentially what
36:59
they their equivalent of a talent system
37:01
has also gone through a plethora of
37:03
changes over the years. And this returns
37:06
back to the older style of them. Uh and
37:09
then it also reduc introduces a reduced
37:12
roster bringing it down to the more
37:14
manageable uh and I'm going to air quote
37:17
here manageable size of champions back
37:20
when the game had I think at 2013 they
37:21
had sub 100 uh champions for you to
37:24
play. So it's interesting to see other
37:26
games adopting this idea of classic
37:29
play. And we just talked about this
37:31
where games look at each other and maybe
37:34
borrow some ideas. And I'm very
37:37
confident that the success of games like
37:40
WoW Classic or uh I think there's an
37:42
EverQuest Classic, not official Classic,
37:45
but like servers that have been rolled
37:47
back to it. Uh people returning to games
37:49
like uh the the City of Heroes
37:52
Homecoming uh that resembles a a lot of
37:54
the like has ability to play in a lot of
37:56
the original server side stuff. uh
37:59
there's an there's a a desire for it, a
38:02
nostalgia for it, and so offering it to
38:04
your players is actually really cool. I
38:08
at least I think so. It's interesting to
38:12
see it and I think it's a really cool
38:13
neat thing and I'm glad to see other
38:16
companies willing to take a chance and
38:19
try this to see not necessarily trying
38:23
to recapture dwindling numbers but
38:27
give players a chance to relive maybe
38:31
eras in time where formative things
38:33
happened to them. So that's interesting
38:36
the EverQuest bit. Um, I want to mention
38:38
that EverQuest not only has EverQuest
38:41
Legends, which is a modern official
38:44
release by Daybreak Games, um, that that
38:46
allows vanilla 1999 and on assets and
38:50
zones. There's also Project 1999, which
38:53
is a legally permitted emulated server,
38:57
uh, freezes the game progression, the
38:59
original 1999 to 2001 era. So, they've
39:02
got two, one of which is just they just
39:04
allow people to do.
39:07
They're like, "If you really want to do
39:08
it that like hardcore just exactly the
39:10
way it was, uh, go ahead and if you want
39:13
to have like the quality of life stuff
39:15
that we've put in since, but but still
39:17
do that, you can use ours." And that's
39:21
happening. That's a fair amount of
39:24
stuff to to think about them, you know,
39:27
not just doing themselves, but allowing
39:28
other people to do. I I'm not sure if
39:31
we'll see more of that as we go through.
39:33
I know City of Heroes kind of did that
39:35
and and we now kind of we know it works,
39:38
it runs, people are doing it. Uh so
39:40
yeah, I I think that's pretty cool.
39:42
Blizzard this week there was a
39:44
announcement that was updated for
39:46
August, you know, for August. Um I don't
39:50
know how to put this, but apparently
39:53
Blizzard is Xbox games. Xbox is the is
39:57
basically Microsoft's entire game brand
39:58
now is just called Xbox. Blizzard is
40:01
their number one performing studio and
40:04
it's because of of all things Diablo I
40:07
and Overwatch. Those are the games that
40:09
have effectively pushed them up
40:12
supposedly. Diablo IV uh I think we can
40:14
we know it's Lord of Hatred and the fact
40:17
that they've been basically improving
40:19
the game consistently from launch.
40:20
>> It's monetized so hard. They push
40:24
microtransactions so hard.
40:26
>> Yeah, absolutely. That that's that's
40:28
what they want. That's what Xbox
40:30
absolutely loves. That's It is not a
40:32
surprise that But Overwatch on the other
40:34
hand, um Overwatch apparently saw the
40:38
best year since 2022.
40:41
>> Well, one one thing about that is
40:43
Overwatch has seen a lot of really
40:46
terrible years. In fact, they had one
40:48
year where the developers didn't get
40:50
bonuses
40:51
>> after Bobby Kodak decided to tie bonuses
40:54
to game performance. So Overwatch was so
40:57
performing so poorly that none of the
40:59
developers on it got bonuses uh back in
41:02
maybe maybe the last year Bobby was in
41:04
charge.
41:06
>> Well, I the the article I read made a
41:08
point that 2022 was when Overwatch 2
41:11
essentially came out and that's the year
41:13
they started like that's the year that
41:15
they were they dropped to the point
41:17
where nobody has gone above it until
41:19
now. But I don't like the Bobby Cody
41:22
gears if they could have done I mean I
41:23
don't know at this point I've repressed
41:25
enough of the Bobby Cody gears that it
41:26
>> there couldn't been blood sacrifices I
41:29
wouldn't remember. [laughter]
41:31
>> I mean it's just it's just been a bad
41:33
time for Overwatch because they
41:34
overpromised on Overwatch 2 and they
41:36
underdelivered and everyone
41:38
>> and they saw it.
41:41
>> Yeah. He's lost a lot. They lost you
41:43
know a lot of people um who were very
41:46
important uh between Michael Cho uh you
41:49
know you know Kaplan they just lost a
41:53
lot of people regardless been a good
41:55
year for Overwatch apparently uh since
41:57
they decided we're going to be Overwatch
41:59
again. And of course Diablo I Diablo I
42:02
is a juggernaut for them. Apparently it
42:04
is their biggest year over year it's
42:06
been their biggest uh money maker. And
42:09
again, as Liz pointed out, you know,
42:11
it's not, you know, just because
42:12
everybody loves Diablo I. It's because
42:15
they've got the monetization pretty
42:17
hammered fisted in there. Um, but
42:21
regardless, that happened. And in a year
42:25
where we've seen studio, you know, Xbox
42:27
studios has gotten, you know, layoffs
42:30
across the board. Some games do, like
42:32
you just pointed out, Zenamax basically
42:34
lost half their uh Elder Scrolls team.
42:38
Yeah. I don't think basically I think
42:40
half of the team is gone.
42:41
>> Yeah. So, it's not been a great year for
42:45
Xbox and oddly enough of all like it's
42:49
not Activision with its Call of Duty
42:51
franchise. It's not Candy Crush,
42:54
obviously. Um, it's Blizzard is the is
42:58
the studio. And they had layoffs, too.
43:01
Let's let's not pretend. Blizzard had
43:02
layoffs. I don't know how bad they were,
43:04
quite frankly. I don't think anyone's
43:05
talked about how many they were. after
43:08
>> I mean one of the things uh in the email
43:10
that went around from Joe Joe Anna
43:13
Ferris when uh the Microsoft layoffs
43:16
were announced was that they would not
43:18
be strongly hitting Blizzard and we
43:21
haven't heard about huge layoffs. So, I
43:23
don't think they hit Blizzard badly,
43:26
>> which is possibly because of this
43:28
because at this point,
43:30
>> uh, this is the studio that's holding
43:32
you up. And, and what's really odd is
43:35
that despite the fact that it is a huge
43:38
game, and it has year-over-year
43:41
recurring numbers that other games would
43:43
literally die for, they don't mention
43:45
World of Warcraft.
43:47
And that's like
43:48
>> and that you know there's the corporate
43:51
tendency to be like
43:53
if you don't overperform you're
43:55
underperforming you know it's like if
43:57
you haven't made your numbers go up
43:59
hugely over the past year then you know
44:03
it's not it's not good performance
44:05
unless it's impossibly good performance
44:08
you know so
44:08
>> yeah the whole idea of like you know
44:10
they have the shark mentality where you
44:12
just have to keep eating continuously if
44:13
you're not you know
44:15
>> Yeah I got you
44:16
>> and it's Like I don't I don't think we
44:18
can take this as I know there are going
44:20
to be people who would read this and say
44:22
ah World of Warcraft is dying. It's not
44:24
on the list. But it's just like there's
44:26
only so much MMO market out there. You
44:28
cannot
44:30
just say okay you're supposed to get 20%
44:33
more subscribers year over year. There's
44:35
only so much blood from the stone. You
44:36
know there's only so far you can go. The
44:39
point is made by multiple people that
44:41
it's less that World of Warcraft is
44:43
dying and more the fact that World of
44:44
Warcraft is yearover-year
44:47
like it's a bedrock. There's always
44:49
going to be this big chunk of money from
44:51
World of Warcraft. It's got subscribers
44:53
who stay subscribed for years. It's got,
44:56
you know, it doesn't have to grow at
44:58
this point. It's just the bedrock and
45:01
it's going to generate the revenue that
45:02
it's going to generate and you can then
45:05
build other things on top of that that
45:07
platform. World of Warcraft is not is
45:09
look, you can look at it. It's just you
45:11
can see financially year-over-year. You
45:13
can see what it it's making. It's making
45:15
a lot of money. It it there's just is it
45:18
growing? No, I don't think it is. And I
45:20
don't think it's going to uh I think
45:23
it's going to be interesting. The point
45:25
you guys made earlier about how seeing
45:28
Guild Wars 3 come out, seeing other MMOs
45:31
come forward and compete again. I think
45:33
after we lost Wildstar and we lost City
45:36
of Heroes and we lost like a lot of of,
45:39
you know, a lot of competition,
45:43
it wasn't until Final Fantasy came back
45:44
and brought it back that that WoW
45:46
started getting off of its its heels a
45:49
bit. But I don't until such time as
45:52
there's more people interested in
45:53
playing MMOs again, I don't think you're
45:55
going to worry about that. But
45:57
regardless, Blizzard being their biggest
46:00
studio, it being essentially the tent at
46:03
this point is really kind of surprising
46:06
to me. Um, and especially that Overwatch
46:09
is apparently doing as well as it is,
46:10
which still doesn't make it even close
46:12
to it was in its heyday.
46:13
>> I mean, I'm not surprised that Overwatch
46:15
is doing well. Not at all.
46:18
Like,
46:18
>> no. I
46:19
>> it it's it was positioned to do well
46:22
especially compared to and I hate to say
46:24
this uh the rest of the games under
46:27
Microsoft's tent because
46:30
Overwatch 2 from its uh release was it's
46:33
a live service game at this point,
46:35
right?
46:35
>> Mhm.
46:36
>> And of course it's going to do well
46:38
monetarily because of the people who
46:39
play. When you like something, you like
46:42
something and you're willing to spend
46:43
money on it. Like I I've commented this
46:46
on before. There was a point in time
46:48
where Madakus and I played a game of
46:50
chicken of who would run the numbers for
46:54
their Riot account first to see how much
46:57
they've spent in skins. Uh neither of us
47:00
budged and I don't want to know, right?
47:03
Like but it was things that I enjoyed at
47:05
the time and you know it was like okay
47:08
$5 here, $6 here, $10 here, whatever.
47:11
And it's the same thing for Overwatch.
47:12
You like a skin, you buy a skin. you
47:14
like, you know, whatever the the case
47:16
is. I'm not surprised by this at all.
47:19
Same thing with like Diablo I, right?
47:23
It's a microtransaction heavy game at
47:25
this point, and people who like it are
47:28
generally I the number of people I see
47:30
in game with purchasable stuff is not
47:33
insignificant, right?
47:35
>> And I [snorts] can't pretend I'm not
47:37
going to pretend here that I have not
47:39
dipped.
47:39
>> Oh, I have. I absolutely have.
47:41
>> Yeah. You know, hey, what's that that
47:44
weapon on your hand? Is that sulfur us?
47:46
Yes, it was. How'd you get that? I
47:50
bought it.
47:51
>> Yeah, I'm sorry.
47:54
>> You can't really It's almost unescapable
47:56
in Diablo I. And as much as I do love
47:58
the game, and I've played a lot of it
48:01
lately, um I just Yeah, there's no way
48:05
around this. Uh, it's not just the
48:08
expansion itself.
48:11
It's all the stuff that they then
48:12
release like, "Hey, here's the Doom
48:14
armor. You want the Doom armor, right?"
48:16
I'm like, "Oh, I hate you so much."
48:21
But yes, I do want it. Click
48:24
just so yeah, I can't I cannot argue
48:27
with that. But yeah, that's so that's I
48:30
think interesting. Uh, it hopefully will
48:32
both mean that Blizzard will be spared
48:34
layoffs. Uh quite frankly, I'm
48:37
>> not feeling Blizz Microsoft lately in
48:40
terms of that. I think, you know, we've
48:41
talked about that in other ways. We
48:43
talked about that in in about the uh
48:45
World of Warcraft Dungeons and Dragons
48:48
book that's coming out that it's almost
48:50
like curse you. Curse you, Microsoft.
48:53
[laughter]
48:54
It's like the c the collector's edition
48:56
is really pretty. Curse you.
48:59
>> Yeah. Yeah.
49:02
But I think we should probably at this
49:04
point uh allow Liz to do the site news
49:06
for us because we're in that place.
49:10
>> Uh yes, I want to thank all of you out
49:12
there for listening. I am so glad you
49:15
are here in whatever format you are you
49:17
are listening to us in. Whether you're
49:19
listening to us live on Twitch, we
49:21
record uh every Tuesday night at 800 PM
49:26
Eastern. You can go to
49:27
twitchtv/blizzardwatch
49:29
to join us for that or hit us up on
49:32
Thursday at the same time for indie game
49:34
streams. But whether you're listening to
49:36
the podcast, whether you're watching us
49:38
live, whether you're watching us on
49:39
YouTube, I am so happy to have you. But
49:41
I do have to give an extra special
49:43
little shout out to our supporters on
49:45
Patreon who really keep the site going.
49:48
It's you guys who come in for us every
49:50
month with a little bit of financial
49:51
support that allows the site to keep
49:53
thriving and growing and just just
49:55
existing, making these podcasts that I
49:58
hope you enjoy because if you don't
49:59
enjoy them, don't listen to them. Life's
50:01
too short. Do things you love. Um, and a
50:04
thank you to Rick who subscribed this
50:06
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$3 a month, you get early access to all
50:12
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50:15
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50:18
Wait, I'm just repeating myself. You get
50:21
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50:22
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50:24
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50:27
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50:30
And uh if you aren't, you can also
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50:39
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50:44
going on, you can subscribe as a free
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50:50
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50:56
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can, it really helps us out. And if you
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sharing, subscribing. All of that helps
51:14
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51:18
good, too. So, if you do not follow us
51:21
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51:25
This is so many words. Why do I write
51:27
the site news with so many words? This
51:29
is terrible. Uh, if you want to follow
51:31
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51:58
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You can also contact us on Discord. And
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52:09
questions channel is our way of saying
52:11
thank you. So, thanks everyone for being
52:14
here. Thanks for listening. I am I'm so
52:16
glad you're here. So, thanks for your
52:18
support.
52:20
>> I'm [laughter] sorry. This broke me.
52:25
>> Why do I write this?
52:28
I have not been able to stop laughing
52:30
since you said that.
52:31
>> I I should really shorten this because I
52:33
get like halfway through and it's like I
52:35
really need a sip of water because I'm
52:37
saying too many words in quick
52:39
secession.
52:41
[laughter]
52:41
>> I've got Okay. Uh we're going to try and
52:44
do an email.
52:44
>> It's my own fault. It's my own fault I
52:46
do this to myself.
52:48
>> We're going to try and do an email now.
52:49
Sorry [laughter]
52:50
question. This is
52:51
>> Hang in there, Matt. Hang in there.
52:53
>> This is from Scribbly and the question
52:55
for any appropriate outlet. I've only
52:57
ever asked questions for lore watch.
52:58
What is your most missed mechanic in
53:00
World of Warcraft? Do you think your
53:02
mechanic would ever be implemented? Why
53:04
or why not? For instance, I really
53:07
really wish we had NPCs that moved
53:09
around during the day on a schedule as
53:12
can be found in Stardew Valley and
53:13
Skyrim. It would add so much to the
53:14
immersion. Uh just some Joe, please.
53:18
Somebody
53:19
>> I I don't really have one. Um, like
53:24
>> totem.
53:24
>> No, that's not a mechanic. That's a
53:27
spell. So,
53:28
>> totems in general, cuz they don't really
53:30
exist anymore.
53:31
>> No, I mean, the thing I'm going to say
53:32
is the same thing I always say, I think,
53:34
which is going to be like robust class
53:36
questing. Like, it is just one of those
53:39
things that left such an impression on
53:41
me. Uh, so like that's really really
53:44
something that I would like to see
53:46
again, but I know that in the grand
53:47
scheme of things likely won't. And I'm
53:50
talking about like when you were a
53:52
shaman in vanilla WoW, you couldn't use
53:55
your abilities until you
53:58
uh like until you went and got the
54:00
appropriate totem, right? So, it's
54:03
that's me. That's the thing that I would
54:05
I would go with. Otherwise, I think the
54:07
game has been relatively healthy with
54:10
moving forward with mechanics, and I
54:12
don't think that there's anything
54:14
specifically that I would bring back
54:17
that other than that as far as like
54:19
in-game mechanics. Liz,
54:21
>> man, I've just been thinking about this
54:23
walking around NPC thing, and on one
54:27
hand, that that does like in Stardew
54:29
Valley, it adds a lot of life to the
54:30
game. It makes people It makes the NPCs
54:33
seem like actual people living actual
54:36
lives, which fits really well with
54:37
Stardew. But I think in World of
54:40
Warcraft, it would just drive you
54:41
slowly. You'd be like, "Okay, I need to
54:43
find this quest giver. Why aren't they
54:45
there?" Oh, well, it's because this hour
54:47
of day they walk to the bar down the
54:49
street and like, "That's interesting."
54:51
would drive you slowly. I just Sometimes
54:55
this is a balance we've seen a lot of
54:57
Blizzard games try to hit. like what's
55:00
the balance between having this lively
55:03
world and having convenience, just
55:05
gameplay convenience? And we have this
55:07
huge problem where gamers want to
55:10
optimize. They want to optimize the game
55:12
out of fun and excitement, which I I'm
55:15
I'm guilty of this myself sometimes. I
55:17
just want to do things the most
55:18
efficient way, get in and get out. And I
55:20
I've veered wildly off topic, but we've
55:24
seen things like look go back to Battle
55:27
for Azeroth and look at Daralore, the
55:30
city. It's an amazing city. The design
55:33
is beautiful. It feels lived in. There
55:35
are NPCs scattered all over the place,
55:39
living their lives, and there's all of
55:40
these little environmental details. It's
55:42
an amazing city, but it's so big that it
55:46
has two flight paths, which uh Burales,
55:49
the alliance city did as well, but yeah,
55:51
one of the flight paths didn't have did
55:53
there wasn't a lot of stuff at the other
55:54
flight path. So,
55:56
>> well, wasn't it up on the wall like the
55:58
other end of the city? So, like it was
55:59
>> it was the other end of the city. So,
56:01
there were some questing stuff over
56:02
there, but not as much as in Desarore
56:04
where you need to go from the top of the
56:06
hill to the bottom of the hill all the
56:08
time. And
56:10
>> listen, I enjoyed eating myself off only
56:12
to use my self-resurrection from Ank
56:14
because it was faster than getting down
56:16
any other way.
56:18
>> Yeah, it's faster. Yeah, exactly. So,
56:21
but sometimes things that make a place
56:24
feel lively and exciting, they're fun
56:26
for the first week and then they just
56:29
become frustrating because you're like,
56:31
"Okay, I've got a half hour to play and
56:34
okay, half of that time is going to be
56:37
walking around town trying to find an
56:39
NPC."
56:40
>> Um, and we've seen in Diablo, too.
56:43
Diablo does this kind of not a wandering
56:46
NPC thing, but Diablo I when it
56:48
launched, it had all of the cities were
56:49
like big and expansive and you had to
56:52
wander around like, okay, here's the the
56:55
mount vendor, here's the occultist, and
56:59
then the alchemist is over on the other
57:01
side of town. They like spread them out
57:02
like it was a real city and they backed
57:06
down on that eventually and kind of made
57:09
everything clustered in a central area
57:11
that's really convenient and you don't
57:13
have to run around and think, "Oh, is
57:14
the occultist on this side of town? Oh
57:16
no, that's the jeweler on that side of
57:17
town." Okay,
57:19
>> Vashad. [laughter]
57:21
>> I mean, but yeah, so sometimes things
57:25
feel like they would be fun, feel like
57:27
they would bring life and interest to a
57:29
game, but they they may not. they can
57:31
turn into frustrations. So I like I
57:34
really
57:34
>> I used to go to Iron Forge all the time.
57:36
>> Iron Forge was my favorite city way over
57:39
Stormwind. They had to redesign
57:40
Stormwind before I started using it
57:43
>> because Iron Iron Forge Iron Forge you
57:46
had the auction house and right across
57:48
from the auction house you had the bank.
57:49
Everyone was in Iron Forge. you because
57:51
you could just walk back and forth and
57:53
you have mailboxes right there. And I
57:56
think the inn was like kind of just a
57:57
couple of steps away from it.
58:01
>> It was not far.
58:02
>> And and then you have the flight paths.
58:04
You just kind of walk around the corner
58:06
into the core of the city to get to the
58:07
flight path.
58:09
>> And it's just so easy. And that you're
58:12
exactly right. That's what made Iron
58:14
Forge one of the best cities to set your
58:15
Hearthstone to. Well, that and the
58:17
proximity to like Molten Core and uh
58:20
Upper Black Rock and all of the dungeons
58:23
and raids we were doing get to like
58:25
Stormwind via the tram. It just it was a
58:27
very nice centralized location.
58:29
>> So, so yeah, there's a balance between
58:31
convenience and making a world feel real
58:34
and lived in. And that's a hard balance
58:36
to find. It's just a tough balance. And
58:39
in Stardew, which is so much more like
58:42
the about environment and about the
58:44
characters and the place, like that's
58:48
that's the game you're playing. But in
58:50
in something like Warcraft or Diablo,
58:53
things that sort of randomize and make
58:55
the world feel lived in kind of kind of
58:57
pull you away
58:59
>> and can become frustrating really
59:01
quickly.
59:01
>> I mean, it's like the whole, you know,
59:02
citizens of Delerin, turn your sky, your
59:04
eyes to the sky. [laughter] First time
59:06
you hear it, great. That's cool. If you
59:07
start hearing it every five minutes,
59:09
you're like, "Yeah, we get it."
59:10
>> What do you mean? You don't love being
59:12
reminded that the ice stone has melted.
59:14
>> Well, no, that's great. That
59:16
>> are what was the what was the speech for
59:19
uh their legendary item? And that wasn't
59:21
nearly as long as the Ronin speech, but
59:23
I
59:24
>> don't breast meal to when when people
59:26
would get their
59:28
>> That was still kind of cool though cuz
59:30
she's like hovering over the city.
59:32
>> Yeah. But I'm just saying that it it did
59:35
kind of get on your nerves if like 10
59:37
people got their staff that day cuz you
59:40
were going to listen to that 10 times. I
59:41
was like I'm trying to get like Rona
59:44
City. Oh no more Taragosa. But
59:46
regardless, yeah, there is a line.
59:49
There's some things are, you know, some
59:51
things are okay like Taragosa and some
59:54
things are look to your look to the
59:55
skies and like oh god isn't he dead? Why
59:58
is he still yelling?
59:59
>> [sighs and gasps]
1:00:00
>> So yeah, I think we're going to try one
1:00:02
more question here and then that will be
1:00:04
it for today's podcast. And this is one
1:00:06
I'm asking because I have not tried to
1:00:08
use a potion in three expansions. So
1:00:10
Daikaiu uh wants to know, is it me or
1:00:13
have potions been useless at max level
1:00:15
recently? I've been nearly killed in
1:00:17
delves in world content, taken a potion,
1:00:19
and see my health bar, refused to budge,
1:00:21
and then died regardless. So I'm going
1:00:23
to ask you guys, are potions not doing
1:00:25
anything?
1:00:25
>> That's kind of a tough question to
1:00:27
answer. Um, [sighs] the problem that you
1:00:31
run into is the the usefulness of
1:00:34
potions is directly tied to the quality
1:00:35
of potion at this point. And so then the
1:00:38
question becomes, were you using a one
1:00:40
star, two star, three star? Um, and like
1:00:43
yeah, so they are useful. I really do
1:00:45
think that they are. I mean, but they're
1:00:48
not the panacea that they used to be.
1:00:52
So, like a silver moon health potion uh
1:00:55
is what somewhere in the neighborhood of
1:00:59
250,000
1:01:01
health when you pop it. Something like
1:01:03
that at at max level uh or at max
1:01:06
quality. And it might be a little bit
1:01:09
more than that. But with the health
1:01:10
pools, even after the squish, that's
1:01:13
enough to keep you from dying for an
1:01:15
immediate hit, but it's not going to be
1:01:17
like it used to, where a potion was as
1:01:20
good to like give you a third of your
1:01:23
health bar back. And so it's their their
1:01:28
position has changed. I think they are
1:01:32
more utility to buy you a a moment or
1:01:36
two to let's say weave in between a cool
1:01:39
down to actually save you or to pop so
1:01:42
that you can then heal yourself with an
1:01:43
actual healing spell that heals for an
1:01:46
incredible amount more. Uh or if you're
1:01:48
in group content to buy your healers
1:01:51
time to save you. It's not they're not
1:01:54
the same solo tool they used to be if
1:01:58
that makes sense. At least that's my
1:02:00
take on it. I don't know how you guys
1:02:01
feel about it. I know Liz, you raid um
1:02:04
with me and and you might have an
1:02:06
opinion on that, but that's been my
1:02:07
observation at least of of where these
1:02:10
have been since probably last expansion.
1:02:12
And
1:02:13
>> I feel like the real problem with
1:02:15
potions is that hell stones are better.
1:02:17
Just like across the board, you don't
1:02:18
want a potion, you want a health stone.
1:02:20
And if you use a health potion in combat
1:02:24
or in in a raid encounter or doing solo,
1:02:27
you are locking yourself out of am I am
1:02:29
I still correct in this? You're locking
1:02:31
yourself out of using a combat potion of
1:02:32
some kind.
1:02:33
>> I was under the impression that it
1:02:34
locked you out of healing potions. I
1:02:35
don't know if it locks you out of like
1:02:37
every potion. I I thought they
1:02:39
even still if you don't have
1:02:41
>> Okay, I I could be wrong. It just
1:02:42
>> Yeah, I don't think I don't think they
1:02:44
have independent cool downs now.
1:02:46
It feels like it's such a small boost
1:02:48
that okay, if I'm hitting a button, I
1:02:49
want to hit a hellstone and not, you
1:02:52
know, not use a short-term cons. Yeah.
1:02:54
So, yeah, you're right, Joe, and that
1:02:56
the quality really counts. It just it
1:02:59
doesn't feel super worthwhile.
1:03:01
>> But I mean, they're also they're also
1:03:03
they're also
1:03:04
>> Go ahead. It's also going to depend very
1:03:06
heavily on what class you're playing and
1:03:08
what your self-healing options are
1:03:10
because, you know, when I'm when I'm
1:03:12
playing my death knight, I I don't go
1:03:15
for my healing stuff a lot. I try to hit
1:03:17
death strike because that's going to
1:03:18
restore some of my health.
1:03:19
>> When I'm playing my monk, I hit vivify
1:03:22
because I get an instant cast vivify
1:03:24
every time I use one of those abilities
1:03:27
triggers an instant cast vivify. So, I
1:03:28
just I just insta heal myself. And when
1:03:32
you have more options than just health
1:03:34
potion, you start leaning into those
1:03:36
options. I I am not even like wired to
1:03:40
go for the potion button because I have
1:03:43
other options that are always better to
1:03:45
use.
1:03:46
>> But I mean, I don't even think that's
1:03:47
just a I almost feel like if I'm use
1:03:50
warriors as an example because I play
1:03:51
Waja Warriors. There's so many different
1:03:53
things I can do instead of hitting a
1:03:55
health potion. Like I would never hit a
1:03:57
health potion before I hit say you know
1:04:00
the my parry ability or my you know
1:04:03
deflection ability or ignore pain or
1:04:07
victory rush
1:04:08
>> or any number of cool downs right like
1:04:10
>> yeah just literally there's just so many
1:04:12
options that healing potions if nothing
1:04:15
else they may have fallen just because
1:04:17
they're not a priority anymore. And I
1:04:18
think I think that plays into it too
1:04:20
though is I think going back to like
1:04:21
design philosophy and class philosophy,
1:04:24
most classes, if not all classes have
1:04:27
tons of ways of dealing with damage on
1:04:29
their own now. And so consumables have
1:04:32
become less of a focus regarding that.
1:04:34
Um, and I want to point this out while
1:04:37
we're because we are live streaming
1:04:38
this. Uh, Theaval in chat said that
1:04:40
potent healing potions uh do 50% of your
1:04:42
health from leveling. That's true when
1:04:44
you're leveling. Uh, but I believe it
1:04:46
was in March of this year. They changed
1:04:51
it so that it has a max cap, but it's a
1:04:54
really good useful leveling tool. Um,
1:04:58
but it's it's not as much as they were
1:05:02
before. And there are more expensive and
1:05:04
there are more expensive versions and
1:05:06
things that you can do.
1:05:07
>> Um, but it's Yeah, I don't know. It's
1:05:10
it's not a focus like it was years ago.
1:05:14
Like remember Burning Crusade? Burning
1:05:17
Crusade, if you were an alchemist, you
1:05:19
were rich. You were gold capped almost
1:05:22
assuredly on health potions alone. Um
1:05:26
because again, most classes didn't have
1:05:28
that built-in healing or their built-in
1:05:30
healing was trash. But now, like Matt's
1:05:33
pointing out, you don't have to be a
1:05:35
warrior to have that many cool downs. my
1:05:37
mage like I'm playing I I was leveling a
1:05:39
a frost mage for for grins and like I
1:05:44
didn't feel like I was dying at any
1:05:46
point in time because I had so many cool
1:05:47
downs and things to pop to keep myself
1:05:49
alive. Uh even if it was rewind time or
1:05:52
mirror image or one of my various ice
1:05:54
form shells that I can put around myself
1:05:57
like there are tons of ways for me to
1:05:59
you know heal myself or prevent fatal
1:06:02
damage and all classes have that now.
1:06:05
potions aren't aren't a main focus
1:06:07
anymore. At least not in that regard.
1:06:09
>> Yeah, I think that we pretty much that's
1:06:12
I think that is the good consensus
1:06:14
because I it's it fits with what I see
1:06:16
and I that's all I care about. Me me I
1:06:20
want my approach. Seriously though, I I
1:06:22
do think it is not that they are useless
1:06:25
at max level, but at max level they are
1:06:27
intended to be uh hit this now and now I
1:06:31
can run over there and maybe I will have
1:06:33
another ability to use in a couple
1:06:34
seconds or maybe someone will catch me
1:06:36
with a heal. But it's not intended to be
1:06:38
an uh I refuse to die button because uh
1:06:42
for like all the different reasons we've
1:06:43
mentioned, there are other things. But
1:06:45
that I think that wraps us up. So, thank
1:06:48
you to Liz and Joe for being here. I I
1:06:51
do want to say since I've started
1:06:53
playing a death knight,
1:06:54
>> I just I I feel invulnerable. Like when
1:06:57
I play any other class, I go back and
1:06:59
I'm like, why am I so squishy?
1:07:03
>> Basically, either you're invincible or
1:07:05
you're instagibbed.
1:07:06
>> Like that's that's death knights. Either
1:07:08
you nothing can kill you or something
1:07:10
hits you so hard that you're dead before
1:07:12
you even know it. But it's like I used
1:07:14
to feel like my monk was not necessarily
1:07:16
tanky, but you know, I have a lot of I
1:07:19
have some self-healing options and
1:07:20
defensive options. And I used to feel
1:07:22
like my paladin was just completely
1:07:24
invulnerable. And I'm now like what all
1:07:26
I have is divine shield and it shares a
1:07:28
cool down with blessing of protection
1:07:31
and then all of my heals have a have a a
1:07:35
cast time. It's not like I can do that
1:07:37
in combat. Uh, so it's just it's weird
1:07:40
how your which class you can huge
1:07:43
difference in how you feel about
1:07:44
survivability. So
1:07:47
that's the thing. It depends. Everything
1:07:49
depends.
1:07:49
>> I want to go to see if like in your
1:07:51
house right now there's a death knight
1:07:52
with a bunch of money. Like thank you
1:07:55
for your your help. [laughter] Death
1:07:56
knight recruitment fund. And you're like
1:07:58
yes that's fine. But no, you're right.
1:08:01
Death knights are p death knights can
1:08:02
feel like that. I I remember when I was
1:08:05
maning a death knight,
1:08:06
>> it was getting to the point where I was
1:08:07
like, uh, what am I do? I need to be
1:08:09
here. I could just let the character
1:08:10
stand there and not not die ever. I get
1:08:13
it.
1:08:14
>> And well, it's just it's Death Strike is
1:08:17
so good. It heals you for uh it deals
1:08:20
damage and it heals you for 32% of the
1:08:23
damage you took in the last 20 seconds.
1:08:26
That can add up real fast. So
1:08:30
>> yeah, it is it is a very uh but now that
1:08:32
that we've done that, uh thank you guys
1:08:35
so much for being here with us. Thank
1:08:36
you for listening. This has been the
1:08:37
Blizzard Watch podcast and we'll be
1:08:39
back.
1:08:47
[music]
1:08:50
I hope we'll be back next
#Games