Up next in 10
This week's Lore Watch kicks off with a question based on a datamined spoiler which will be revealed as we come to toward the end of patch 12.1, as we finally uncover the goal Xal'atath has been working toward since before she was besties with a nameless Shadow Priest (Mitch). As usual, her now-revealed motivations may have a knock-on effect on certain aspects of both far-ranging lore and small details of our characters' daily lives. If, of course, that datamined info comes to pass.
Then we go to Magister's Terrace and the Lycaneum, which we've noticed is packed with all kinds of bookish clutter. This includes stuff that represents travel, like ships, but also a few artifacts you might not expect for a Blood Elf location, even if they are global scholars, like statuettes of Moonkin. Is this just set dressing, or is there something more significant these props are meant to signify? Or, one step further, are they foreshadowing a return to something Moonkin-y, like Elune?
If you want even more background story, we also have a guide to every Warcraft book in chronological order (for those of you who prefer reading that way): https://blizzardwatch.com/warcraft-books/
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0:04
[music]
0:10
Hello and welcome to Lore Watch round
0:12
table free form discussion about lore
0:14
and your favorite media. I'm your host
0:16
Joe Perez, one of several lore focused
0:18
folks from Blizzard Watch and I've got
0:20
two marvelous co-hosts with me today. Uh
0:22
first, you know him, I hope you love him
0:24
because we like him quite a bit. It's
0:26
Eric Oday. How you doing?
0:28
Hey Joe, I am doing pretty good today.
0:32
>> Most excellent. And I love you, Eric.
0:35
And then that sultry voice uh causing
0:38
concern and delight at the same time, as
0:40
I'm sure you're aware and probably used
0:42
to at this point. Matt Rossy, how you
0:43
doing, Matt?
0:45
>> I'm from New England, so I'm used to
0:47
causing concern and delight at the same
0:49
time. There's usually at least one
0:50
cultist around who will pray to me, so
0:53
it's fine. I was gonna say you said you
0:55
know him you love him and I expected you
0:56
to say Matt and you caught me off guard
0:58
when it said Eric.
1:00
>> Got to keep you on your toes. Well
1:02
speaking of
1:02
>> also I'm gonna say this before we go on.
1:04
I know we got a show but I've seen a
1:06
clip from the new Zero Squadron Star
1:08
Wars game and I got to say someday I
1:10
want to be able to walk into a room with
1:12
the aura of Anakin Skywalker because
1:14
that man just walks into a room and
1:15
everyone's like oh
1:17
the clench. It's great. It's really
1:19
funny.
1:20
>> Yeah. Uh well, we're going to be doing
1:23
some question answering today from you,
1:25
our wonderful listeners at home. As you
1:27
all like to keep us on our toes, if you
1:30
have questions for this or any of our
1:31
podcasts, we do want to remind you that
1:33
you can go ahead and send those in
1:35
podcastwatch.com.
1:37
Specify the show that it's for in the
1:39
subject line as well as any special
1:41
pronunciation of your name. If you don't
1:43
want to use email, you can hit us on
1:45
Discord. We have two channels set aside.
1:48
Q and podcast questions open for
1:50
everybody. Same rules apply as sending
1:52
an email. And if you are a Patreon
1:54
subscriber, we have the Patreon Q and
1:56
podcast questions channel uh where we
1:58
tend to look there first. It's our
2:00
little extra way of saying thank you to
2:01
our Patreon subscribers for helping us
2:02
keep the lights on. This first question
2:05
is going to potentially be mild spoilers
2:08
for what's been data mined and coming in
2:11
the next raid tier content patch. So, if
2:16
you want to not hear about this, skip
2:19
ahead a little bit. But I'll try to put
2:20
a marker in here for those that are
2:21
listening with a chapter cuz I will try
2:24
to be nice to y'all. But this comes from
2:26
Ano. So with the recent data mine
2:29
revelation that Zalotas goal is to merge
2:31
with the world soul. How will this
2:33
affect races and creatures that are
2:35
linked in some way to the world soul?
2:38
For instance, the dragon aspects got
2:40
their spectral powers back directly from
2:43
the world soul. Will [snorts] this
2:44
corrupt them or have them lost their
2:46
power? Could this have been Iriticron's
2:49
goal? And he used his brother as bait to
2:52
allow the aspects to regain their
2:54
powers, luring them into false sense of
2:56
security, which will ultimately end up
2:58
placing uh the that in Zelatas control,
3:02
which they can then be forced to fight
3:04
the Titans. Sorry for the ramble. I have
3:06
more questions about how this affects
3:08
the Earth and even any race that was
3:09
affected by Azeroth's magic to mutate,
3:12
such as night elves, goblins, etc.
3:17
Well, who wants to take first crack at
3:18
this?
3:22
>> I think that it might not affect things
3:26
that have already taken their
3:29
empowerment from Azeroth. I mean things
3:33
things that has have taken a long time
3:35
for Azeroth to you know slowly affect
3:40
things like a gift of Azeroth's power
3:42
that was one time you know going back
3:45
and finding the radioactive spider and
3:47
squishing it doesn't affect s spider it
3:50
doesn't affect Spider-Man you wouldn't
3:51
think definitely doesn't affect Superman
3:52
but I don't think it would affect
3:53
Spider-Man
3:54
>> would make him angry.
3:55
>> Yeah.
3:56
>> Why'd you do that? That's a jerk move.
3:58
That spider wasn't bothering you. They
4:00
actually help with pests and you spend
4:02
20 minutes getting lectured by Superman.
4:04
>> I think it would be more of a effect of
4:08
anything that continues to draw power.
4:11
So whatever things we can think of that
4:14
the the power the essence of Azeroth is
4:17
currently the power source for I don't
4:20
know if the aspects are going to become
4:23
instantly mind controlled. Are you guys
4:25
on the same page?
4:27
>> Yeah. I So, it's interesting because
4:30
we're making an assumption here that
4:35
if Zalot succeeds
4:38
that she will replace the world soul.
4:42
But there's a the way more I think about
4:45
it, the more the question remains, can
4:48
Zalot even do that?
4:51
Can Zalot merge with the world soul and
4:55
actually still remain Zalot? Or is the
4:59
resulting merger a completely separate
5:02
entity that has all of Azeroth and all
5:05
of Zalatath and that sort of combination
5:08
of everything plus void into one being
5:11
because we've already kind of
5:12
established that or at least I have and
5:15
I've been championing this for years
5:17
that Azeroth is this perfect nexus point
5:19
of all of these different astral forces
5:23
and the only one that isn't really
5:26
present there in or at least has been
5:29
kept at bay for a very very long time
5:31
has been void. What happens when that
5:34
last element because it is a cosmic or
5:36
or you know power of some some nature?
5:39
It is it is an entity that has extreme
5:42
power in the cosmos.
5:45
What happens when those merge together?
5:47
Do we get an Anu? Do we get a perfect
5:50
diamond warrior that has the entire
5:52
spectrum of all reality inside of
5:55
itself? and then cascading that down.
6:00
While Azeroth and of Azeroth may be the
6:03
very nature of where magic is and things
6:07
like that, we don't know
6:12
how, if at all, it would cascade down to
6:15
anything born from them. Now, we've seen
6:20
on other worlds there has been an
6:22
effect, but it hasn't been because the
6:24
world soul is missing or the world soul
6:27
has altered. Like, let's take a look at
6:30
we can look at the broken, right?
6:31
They're not the broken on Argus because
6:34
the world soul was subjugated and
6:36
changed. They're broken because they
6:38
were exposed to the twisting nether
6:41
directly for an extended period of time
6:44
in the absence of light and mutated to
6:46
survive. Uh we could look at you know
6:50
Drraanor uh and how those the magic
6:52
still works there. There is no world
6:54
soul present. Where does the magic come
6:56
from? What is it based off of? Is it
6:58
stillma? Is it thema that flows
7:00
throughout all the rest of the world?
7:03
Then you can look at Caresh as another
7:06
example of that. The beings of Kesh did
7:08
not mutate because Caresh was dying or
7:11
blown up. No, they chose that. They they
7:15
took a bargain to change themselves into
7:17
energy beings.
7:19
>> They bargained with Zealot.
7:20
>> They bargained with Zalot,
7:22
but they that's not why they mutated,
7:26
right?
7:26
>> Here's here's an idea. Let me let me let
7:29
me go on some some things that I think I
7:32
think we're thinking and maybe not
7:34
saying.
7:34
>> Sure.
7:35
>> I don't think that Zealot
7:38
is out to create a void titan.
7:42
That doesn't seem to be what her goal is
7:44
to me. Uh secondly, I'll make that last.
7:49
But secondly, we don't really know like
7:52
your point about scale, I think, or at
7:54
least you were kind of making a point
7:56
about scale. We don't know how much.
7:59
Like if you have if you're adding Zalat
8:02
to Azeroth, that's like great. You're
8:04
like you're that's like adding one drop
8:07
of cyanide into 83 billion gallons of
8:11
water. It's not going to matter.
8:14
>> Yeah. Especially when and how much of of
8:17
Zalat is how big is Zalat in comparison
8:20
to the world soul?
8:21
>> Yeah. Is she big enough to do that? Go
8:23
ahead. And just real quick to add on to
8:24
that, one of the other things that I was
8:26
going to get to is like if if like our
8:28
discussion last week is the source of
8:30
all magic and life and we are the source
8:34
of that feeds Azeroth.
8:37
Then it's basically again that like
8:39
you're saying like that drop in the
8:41
bucket that Zalot whatever she's got for
8:43
power and void even Dementius at that
8:45
level versus all of us and we beat
8:47
Dementius once already.
8:50
>> Yeah. To this like we can't say for
8:52
sure. We can make guesses, but we don't
8:54
know what exactly Zalat is or for that
8:58
matter what exactly Azeroth and World
9:00
Souls are. We we don't have the nuts and
9:03
bolts of that. So, we're assuming,
9:07
>> you know, mosquito merging with a
9:10
freight trait kind of scale here. But
9:12
maybe that's not true. Like maybe Zelat
9:15
in mortal form is just, you know,
9:17
everything that we've seen is just a
9:19
fraction of her power, essence,
9:20
whatever. Maybe they're maybe it's more
9:23
equal.
9:24
>> We've been told like for instance that
9:25
that Dementius was so enormous that he
9:27
couldn't even enter our reality
9:30
directly. He had to be pulled through.
9:32
Then the same with Sargeras when he was
9:34
there. Sargeras, even though he was a
9:36
world soul, which meant he was inside a
9:39
body at one point, in order for him to
9:41
enter Azeroth, he kept having to be
9:43
summoned. At one point, somebody managed
9:46
to keep him out just by barely injuring
9:49
him with a magical item that marred his
9:52
pattern enough that he couldn't come
9:54
through.
9:56
Think about like like that. Whether or
9:58
not she's so enormous in her true
10:01
essence that she could affect Azeroth,
10:04
it doesn't necessarily follow that
10:05
she'll be dominant. Kind of like you
10:07
both you and Joe have said, we don't we
10:09
don't know who's going to be in charge.
10:11
Like who will be driving the bus? We
10:13
don't know. But another thing to think
10:15
about and one that it keeps coming back
10:17
to me is we keep saying where's Ashara?
10:21
Why was it why were there Naga? Where's
10:23
Ashara? What has Ashara wanted to do for
10:28
as long as Ashara has had goals?
10:31
Supplant
10:33
Azeroth
10:34
specifically. She she didn't like the
10:37
fact that the elves worshiped a god. So
10:40
she erased that god from their day-today
10:44
lives. She pushed them as she pushed the
10:46
goddess as far to the side as she could.
10:49
Illoon worship took a dive. Um she
10:53
renamed a city uh Zinashari from
10:57
Illundus because she didn't want a a
10:59
city to be named Eye of Aloon anymore.
11:01
She wanted it to be named Gloria of
11:03
Ashara.
11:05
and she was willing to stand there and
11:07
fight even against the you know the the
11:10
cataclysm not the cataclysm the
11:12
sundering to prevent
11:15
her city named after her from getting
11:17
destroyed
11:19
and she's always thought she was worthy
11:23
she like Sargeras was the only
11:25
acceptable mate for her in her her
11:29
worldview not that he was necessarily
11:32
like you know as good as her like I
11:34
don't think she I'm not saying he's not.
11:36
I'm just saying I don't think she thinks
11:38
that way. But he was acceptable because
11:40
he was practically a god. And that's
11:44
pretty close to where she thinks she
11:45
should be. If if anybody is going to
11:47
come in and like you steel chair
11:51
Zalat to the back of the head and and
11:53
grab hold of the world soul, it's going
11:56
to be Aara.
11:58
>> You know, that's like her whole deal.
12:01
So, every time people talking about this
12:03
merger, I'm like, I'm not too sure this
12:05
merger is even going to happen. At least
12:06
not with Zelat doing it. And that's
12:11
part of the reason I think that is
12:12
because how many times has Zelat
12:15
gotten
12:16
pushed, you know, look look at the whole
12:18
deal with Dementius.
12:19
>> Mhm.
12:20
>> The whole deal with Dementius was him
12:22
horning in on her stick. Uh the whole
12:24
deal with the old gods where she's sent
12:26
to Azeroth and she gets essentially, you
12:29
know, dismantled by them again. They
12:32
were stealing her stick. Everybody keeps
12:35
stepping in and grabbing it and she
12:37
keeps going right back to it again.
12:41
I I feel like there's a pattern. I'm not
12:44
necessarily saying that will show up and
12:47
will do this. I mean, I would certainly
12:49
not be surprised if she did, but I also
12:51
wouldn't be surprised if they don't
12:52
bring her back yet because they might
12:55
want to focus on Zalat always reaching
12:58
just past her grasp.
13:00
>> Well, she always does this.
13:02
>> There's also another assumption that
13:04
Zealot knows what she's doing.
13:06
>> Yeah.
13:06
>> Right. Like like this is like like she
13:09
has a rough idea and I'm not saying
13:10
she's dumb and I want to make sure that
13:12
that's clear because I know there's a
13:13
lot of people that actually like her as
13:14
a villain.
13:14
>> But hubris is definitely a part of her
13:16
personality. [snorts] Hubris is
13:17
absolutely a part of her personality and
13:20
revenge and vengeance are are like so
13:23
paramount to her that like she may not
13:28
be seeing things clearly between the
13:30
assumption that she's the smartest one
13:32
in the room and then the assumption that
13:34
she knows what's going on and that she
13:36
understands what a world soul is. And
13:40
maybe she does understand what a world
13:41
soul is, but we've established this too.
13:44
Azeroth ain't a normal world soul. Like
13:48
it is not normal by any means. Like and
13:51
we've we've you know postulated that.
13:55
>> Yeah. Like I think honestly one of the
13:56
things that came to me when you were
13:58
talking before was that Alith adding
14:02
herself to Azeroth might just be like he
14:05
here's a little bit more of a key to
14:08
open your last locked door because as
14:10
you said she's been kept from the void
14:12
for so long. The Titans came to Azeroth
14:15
and thought, "Oh, she'll turn into a
14:16
void monstrosity. We have to keep the
14:18
the void out." But the void were making
14:21
life.
14:22
>> Yeah.
14:23
>> On Azeroth, there were living beings
14:25
coming out of them, which is not
14:26
something the you know, the old gods
14:28
don't usually seem to care about that
14:29
kind of thing. So, it's interesting.
14:32
Yeah. And and again, like the effect
14:34
that it would have cascading down to the
14:36
rest, like I I don't know that it would.
14:40
And part of that is not just because of
14:41
the drop in the bucket theory or the
14:43
fact that we don't know um we don't know
14:46
what is what Azeroth is or what the
14:49
actual plan is or what is actually
14:51
capable that of for Zeldat to do. But
14:54
one thing we do know is that we are the
14:59
source of power that feeds Azeroth to a
15:03
degree. And that's why the Titans did
15:06
what they did. That's why the Titans put
15:09
those engines in place that fed the
15:10
spirit back into,
15:13
you know, Azeroth. That spirit being
15:17
generated by the living creatures that
15:19
live on the planet. That happens to be
15:21
us. So, we're at a point where a lot of
15:25
the time
15:28
we we may not have an effect on or let
15:32
me rephrase that. Zalatath may not have
15:35
an effect on us.
15:37
It may go the other way.
15:40
Ourma, our experiences may flow into
15:43
Zalat in a way that she doesn't expect
15:46
and completely change who she is, what
15:49
she is, and her perception of reality.
15:51
Again, she's playing with fire. She
15:53
doesn't she doesn't know what's going to
15:55
happen. She has no idea. And she
15:57
definitely hasn't told us. She hasn't
15:59
announced anything. She's just, you
16:02
know, cackled at us and then disappeared
16:04
down the void. Well, so we we we don't
16:07
have any idea. We get it from a cut
16:09
scene with other characters talking
16:11
about what she's doing. So,
16:13
>> and also
16:13
>> data mind cut scene.
16:15
>> Yeah. Which
16:16
>> which may not be the end result. It may
16:18
change. It may shift. It may be
16:20
something completely different by the
16:21
time we get to it. Right. We've we've
16:24
seen this before where they work on
16:26
something, they start on something, it
16:29
doesn't work the way they want it to
16:30
work and or it doesn't fit the narrative
16:33
or they make a change and then they go,
16:35
"Okay, pivot." Or, "Okay, this isn't
16:38
there anymore." or and and this is
16:41
something that, you know, I increasingly
16:44
believe may potentially happen as they
16:46
mess with data miners, something may
16:49
intentionally be put in there as a red
16:52
herring or distraction that is never
16:54
intended for actual use, but the data
16:56
miners see it anyway. I could see that
16:59
being a thing that happens, too, because
17:01
again, guarding the story.
17:06
Any other thoughts on that? Do you think
17:08
that I mean again we've we said that we
17:11
don't think it's going to affect the
17:12
races but do we think anything else will
17:15
come of it?
17:16
>> I mean you know they it could I mean if
17:19
they decide that that's what happens
17:20
that's what happens. It just it feels
17:22
like it's it's putting the cart before
17:24
the horse to assume that that's where
17:26
they're going with this you know. Who
17:29
knows? Maybe we'll get redeemed zalot at
17:31
the end of it and she's like now I
17:32
understand everything. Now I am Azeroth
17:35
and now I will protect Azeroth. I don't
17:37
know.
17:39
I'm not in the I'm not in the writer
17:40
room. I don't expect them to do that
17:43
because I kind of feel like I mean on
17:45
the one hand I'd absolutely love it if
17:47
we got some you know Evanova speeches
17:50
from Babylon's five out of you know at
17:52
the end of this expansion cuz she's
17:54
great but no Claudia Christian's a great
17:57
actress but I don't think they're going
17:59
to have her go they're not going to
18:02
going to waste the heel that they've got
18:04
in Zelat. It's too good a villain to
18:07
lose to to being good now. Um, that's
18:10
just my feeling on it. I I think we're
18:12
gonna probably see what we expect to
18:15
see, although I don't know what it will
18:17
actually turn out to do.
18:20
Like maybe it's actually been Zalot that
18:23
the planet's been calling this whole
18:24
time. I don't know.
18:28
I think if anything that it will be, you
18:31
know, Zealot is trying to become the
18:34
world soul means that we can't just go
18:36
and cast Frostbolts and hit her with
18:38
axes. I think it will be that she's
18:41
intertwined with something and we'll
18:43
have to get creative about how we stop
18:45
whatever this is. if that's what we
18:46
decide to do and if she can't convince
18:48
us that that's actually the best thing
18:50
for the universe like some of the other,
18:55
you know, antagonists have tried to kind
18:57
of say, "Oh, well, you have a better
18:58
idea." as they die. So, we'll we'll have
19:01
to see if we get an explanation or or if
19:03
she's just, you know, unconscious and
19:05
hooked up to the manifold.
19:09
>> All right. Well, hopefully that answers
19:11
your question a little bit and maybe
19:13
we'll return to this as the story
19:14
progresses and maybe give some more
19:17
insight, but right now we're kind of in
19:19
the middle of Troll Land and everything
19:21
that's going there. So, yeah. Our next
19:24
question is a little bit of a long one,
19:28
so we're going to try to go through this
19:29
just a little bit. Um, this one is from
19:34
Luna Miora. I really like the new
19:38
lysenium portion of Magister's Terrace
19:41
and was examining the contents of its
19:43
many bookshelves. While primarily books
19:45
and scrolls, there are quite a number of
19:47
other objects scattered throughout. Some
19:49
of these didn't seem too out of place
19:51
for a blood elf study, such as bags,
19:53
orbs, quills, pots, and numerous
19:55
containers of various liquids. Others
19:57
seem to convey a theme of travel, such
19:59
as compasses, spy glasses, zeppelin
20:02
figures, globes, even a silver metallic
20:05
rocket ship. A few of the books were
20:07
opened with one containing what appears
20:08
to be an Iraqi empire symbol and two
20:12
others containing diagrams reminiscent
20:14
to structures found in the Shadowlands.
20:16
But the item that jumped out to me the
20:17
most were the moon figures, six in total
20:21
with three different variations.
20:23
My question, do you think the objects in
20:26
the lysenium are random or could there
20:29
be some piece of story direction the
20:31
developers have tucked in here? And then
20:33
two, why would the blood elves have
20:36
numerous moonin statues in their
20:38
library? Could they be studying their
20:40
use of arcane or astral energy? This
20:42
makes me think of the end of episode 421
20:44
where you discussed us needing to
20:46
eventually speak to Aloon and the
20:47
possible ways that could happen. One
20:49
suggestion was speaking with Moonkins,
20:51
who have already been known to commune
20:53
with Aloon in game. Could this be a hint
20:55
to tapping Moonkins for connecting to
20:58
Aloon?
21:00
>> I mean, there's a ton of different
21:02
[laughter]
21:03
Yes, it could be. I mean, sorry, Joe. I
21:06
You were about to talk, so I can
21:08
>> No, no, you're you're fine. You're fine.
21:09
It's like the the thing is this is
21:12
infinite possibilities, right?
21:13
>> Yeah. Well, not only is it infinite
21:14
possibilities, there's precedent for it.
21:16
There's quest There's a quest in the
21:18
Winter Spring where you literally go up
21:21
a hill and end up talking to a gigantic
21:25
green floating gem thing. It looks like
21:28
a like a throat lozenge if you have like
21:30
a cold or something. But when you talk
21:33
to it, you get you don't get any words.
21:35
You just get the sense that this is the
21:39
thing through which the Moonkin talked
21:40
to Aloon and that she talks back to them
21:44
like she made them. The Moonkin
21:46
[clears throat] are creations of Aloon.
21:49
Uh, and as to why they're there, just as
21:52
one example, um, there's another quest
21:55
more recent that has the blood elves
21:57
when they were high elves sending people
22:01
to Winter Spring. Yeah. Even though
22:04
>> it's it's not an easy trip. What with
22:06
the giant vortex in the middle of the
22:08
world, they they want to know about the
22:10
place that they left
22:12
>> cuz to them it's only been like two
22:14
generations.
22:16
like 10,000 years is is like two two or
22:20
three lifespans. Doar died. His son
22:23
Anastian took over. Now his son
22:26
Anisterian is has been king for like a
22:28
few thousand years and he has a son
22:30
who's going to take over until of course
22:32
Gil ends up not taking over. But that's
22:34
nobody saw that coming. They were just
22:36
planning for it. They looked back. They
22:39
wanted to to reestablish contact. They
22:42
went and explored. you you get to see a
22:44
whole thing of different elves showing
22:47
up in Winter Spring. There were like the
22:49
the original highborn who became the
22:52
high elves. There was a high elf who
22:54
went there. There was a blood elf who
22:56
went in search of that high elf who was
22:58
an ancestor of his.
23:00
>> And that's been going on like there have
23:02
been people going back and forth this
23:04
whole time. Just because most people
23:05
didn't know about it didn't mean that
23:07
the elves had forgotten that they came
23:09
from over there. They're they were fully
23:12
aware of it. They they knew full well,
23:14
yeah, we're we're from not here from
23:15
here originally. We're from over there.
23:17
So,
23:19
I I think like a lot of that stuff
23:21
you're seeing is being used to set up
23:23
possible future things. Like I think
23:24
we're going to definitely go to the Arai
23:26
Empire at some point.
23:27
>> Oh, for sure.
23:27
>> But I also think it's a it's a nod back
23:30
to the fact that this stuff has always
23:32
it's not that the blood elves don't know
23:35
about Moonkin. They just don't happen to
23:37
have any in the place they currently
23:38
live, but they're they're to the south.
23:40
There's Wildkin straight south of them.
23:43
>> Yeah, I was gonna say, not only that,
23:44
but there's also some other things that
23:45
I think are really interesting links.
23:47
>> They used to have that. Didn't they used
23:48
to have the the the lodges?
23:51
>> Yeah. So, I'm I'm I'm getting right
23:52
there, too. Yeah, cuz there were lodges
23:54
that they had uh all throughout there in
23:55
the south of the Wild Canar. But also
23:57
one of the things I think is really
23:59
interesting is if you notice original
24:01
Qualas,
24:03
there's a lot of like
24:07
uh nightbor architecture cues that
24:09
you'll find there or night elf
24:11
architecture cues. Things like
24:13
moonstones, architecture that you would
24:15
find more in tune with like combining
24:17
with nature, not necessarily purely this
24:20
arcane history that we normally
24:24
associate the blood elves with. Because
24:26
don't forget the blood elves and the the
24:29
night elves were one people, right? They
24:32
lived together at one point.
24:34
>> Well, I was going to say Dramar uh he's
24:36
described in the War of the Ancients.
24:38
He's just as purple and tall as any of
24:41
the other ones.
24:42
>> Yeah.
24:42
>> He doesn't they don't they don't
24:44
different until they've created the
24:46
Sunwell.
24:47
>> Exactly. And so like even now when you
24:49
go into
24:50
>> although this now now Joe going back for
24:52
a sec the fact that we're talking about
24:54
that implies that there is a possible
24:56
chance that if Zalot did somehow merge
24:58
with the world soul the elves would feel
25:00
it.
25:01
>> Feel it. Yes.
25:02
>> They seem to change.
25:04
>> I'm not saying that they would
25:05
necessarily immediately go let's all
25:07
worship Zalot and do what she says. I'm
25:09
saying they notice it.
25:11
>> Yeah. I I think I think I think races of
25:12
Azeroth would feel that.
25:14
>> They wouldn't suddenly become dark
25:16
trolls.
25:16
>> Yeah. I I I think I think that's pretty
25:19
accurate. But like again going back with
25:21
the the the link like there are vestages
25:24
of that link to nature that you can find
25:27
even now in Qualas if you just go roam
25:30
around. You'll see old shrines. You'll
25:33
see uh things that like are more in tune
25:36
with nature that have that. And then
25:38
another thing that I think is
25:38
interesting is let's go back to when
25:41
there were a bunch of villainous blood
25:43
elves. Let's go back to Burning Crusade
25:45
and let's talk about Arcane Botonists,
25:48
shall we?
25:50
>> Yeah, I knew you were going there.
25:51
>> Yeah. So, if you go to the Botanica, um,
25:54
blood elves and their kindred, including
25:57
Nightborne, because they're in the same
25:59
the same, you know, familiar tree of
26:01
elves, and they did a lot of the same
26:03
stuff in in Suramar. They
26:06
>> Yeah, Nightborn are descended from
26:07
highborn, too, just like the high
26:09
elves/B blood elves were.
26:10
>> Exactly. They didn't forget their ties
26:12
to nature. In fact, they tried to use
26:16
the [clears throat] nature.
26:18
>> Yeah. The Arcanador. If you see the Norn
26:20
have a tradition of their own that's
26:22
very similar to the one that the blood
26:24
elves have. And we even see a blood elf
26:26
>> botonists in Arcatraz.
26:29
>> We do. And then you see
26:31
>> Arcatra. What's the other one?
26:34
>> I can't remember the other one.
26:35
>> The Botanica.
26:37
>> Botanica. Thank you. That Yeah. In what
26:38
I'm literally talking about. Yeah.
26:40
But yeah, like it's you see them
26:42
manipulating
26:43
like flora by arcane infused botany.
26:47
They're creating the threshers. They're
26:49
creating uh life from these plants that
26:52
have been manipulated. What's the last
26:54
boss in the botanica?
26:57
It's an ancient.
26:58
>> The big tree. Yeah,
26:59
>> it's an ancient. Not just a big tree.
27:01
It's an ancient. An ancient of war.
27:03
>> Yeah, but he's crystalline. He's
27:04
crystalline infused. And he, like you
27:06
said, he's ancient of war. He's He's
27:08
just different, but he's not different
27:10
in a way that doesn't make sense. He He
27:12
feels like he's just from a tradition
27:14
that melded the two more.
27:16
>> Yep. Or
27:17
>> under Yeah. Under under Ashara, they
27:20
would have been merged together more.
27:23
>> Now, take that even a step further and
27:26
now we start looking at the plight of
27:29
the blood elves. So, not only do they
27:31
remember their heritage,
27:33
but at one point they're starving. their
27:37
their addiction to power and I'm going
27:39
to air quote addiction here that
27:41
sustains them their addiction to this
27:43
this power source that we've seen other
27:45
elves fall prey to as well leads them to
27:48
start researching and looking for
27:50
answers right they start looking at the
27:53
rest of the world and they start looking
27:56
at things that rumors or things that
27:59
they've encountered and they note those
28:01
connections between things
28:05
have a lot of power and you as you
28:07
pointed out like they have a direct
28:09
connection to the astral but also to
28:12
light to the sun. They are creatures
28:14
that are capable of existing in both
28:17
cycles. They are also creatures that are
28:19
very magic resistant. They are
28:23
immutable,
28:25
but when's the last time we heard of a
28:27
ankin or a moonkin or a wildkin
28:31
mutating? They've been around forever,
28:34
right?
28:35
like
28:36
>> yeah they're not they're not the result
28:37
of mutations. They're the result of
28:39
direct creation by a deity.
28:42
>> It seems likely that that deity would
28:45
have built in safeguards to keep them
28:47
the things that she made them
28:50
>> like they they serve a purpose
28:52
>> and we don't quite understand it.
28:54
>> But you hit it right there too. Created
28:56
by a deity with a direct tie to a deity.
28:59
And what is Aloon if not a crazy source
29:03
of power, right?
29:06
There is a world in which at some point
29:09
those blood elves, magesters in
29:12
particular, who this is sort of their
29:14
gig, would have been looking at if they
29:16
could have subjugated a god and taken
29:19
her power. And I'm not saying that's why
29:20
it's there, but it may be a nod to it.
29:22
It may be a nod to that exploration they
29:24
did to see what else was out there that
29:27
what could sustain them. And again, wild
29:30
are just to the south. They remember the
29:33
old ways. They remember the night elves
29:35
and their their commitment to nature
29:38
before the separation cuz it was
29:40
present. It was part of the elven
29:41
empire.
29:42
>> You know what you just made me remember
29:44
though?
29:45
>> What's that?
29:46
>> Something the highborn he did a
29:49
different group of hborn, but but
29:51
definitely highborn. When the when the
29:54
the War of the Ancients came to its
29:56
conclusion, Elderthales or Direal was
30:00
cut off,
30:01
>> they didn't have access to the Well of
30:03
Eternity anymore cuz [clears throat]
30:05
in Dire Mallal
30:06
>> Yeah. There's a giant demon that they
30:09
trapped and were drawing power out of
30:12
it.
30:12
>> Oh, yeah. They also had angels of war
30:15
and Treeman and everything else in there
30:17
as well. It wasn't just arcane.
30:19
>> Yeah. Yeah. But my point is that they
30:20
they had a ritual that they could use on
30:23
a sufficiently powerful entity to draw
30:25
its power out.
30:26
>> Yep.
30:27
>> And they were doing it like it got it it
30:31
literally lasted past them. It was still
30:34
being done. The the few remaining actual
30:37
living highborn inside Dire Mall, who by
30:40
the way, just so everybody knows, are
30:42
the ones who taught magic to the current
30:45
night elves.
30:47
Remember that. those guys went up and
30:50
said, "Hey, can we please come back now?
30:52
We're we're really sorry about that
30:54
10,000 years of having a demon that we
30:56
used as a power source." And
30:59
>> they got accepted way over to Rhonda's
31:02
objections because Mother was just so
31:04
eager for it. And and there's a question
31:07
for you there. Why would Malfurion be
31:10
Malfurion be so curious about what the
31:12
hborn knew
31:16
when did Joe just point out that they
31:18
had at Darl?
31:21
They had ancients.
31:22
>> Yep.
31:23
>> They had those wandering tree monsters.
31:25
They they had, for lack of a better
31:27
word, plant elementals
31:29
serving them.
31:33
Why? How? cuz that's a kind of magic
31:36
that that druids kind of do.
31:40
To this day, druids tap into the arcane.
31:43
If you've ever gotten hit by wrath or um
31:46
what's the other one? The big fire comes
31:48
down from the sky. Moonfire. Is that
31:49
what it's called?
31:50
>> I don't remember, but we're we're going
31:52
to go with it.
31:53
>> But just, you know, the big column of of
31:55
moonlight that they drop down on people
31:57
and the of course the regular old
31:59
fashioned green lightning they throw.
32:00
They're nature magic, but they're also
32:02
arcane.
32:04
they have access to arcane magic. They
32:06
they do touch the arcane and I think
32:09
that's not a mistake and it's something
32:12
that we've seen get more and more tied
32:13
together like we talked about last time
32:16
with the origins of how affects magic. I
32:21
think it's life and the return of life
32:24
is a big part of that. I mean, and it's
32:27
fascinating that we have druids who are
32:29
both very kind of life and rebirth
32:32
focused and druids who are kind of like
32:34
death and obsessed with death and and
32:36
the lands of the dead, the the culturan
32:39
druids and before them the the drust who
32:43
were very much into the other other half
32:45
of the cycle. Kind of like light and
32:48
dark have cycles for Naru. Life and
32:52
death are those same cycles. Even though
32:54
they're different realms, it's a similar
32:56
cycle for living things on Azeroth.
33:01
>> So, I think it it kind of go ahead.
33:03
>> No, I was gonna say I was I want to hear
33:05
Eric's take on this before I because I I
33:07
I have a tin foil hat theory for me.
33:10
>> I really uh hadn't thought of some of
33:12
the things that you guys had said like
33:14
that the the history of the blood elves
33:16
means that like it could be that
33:18
somebody who works on the Lake Handm was
33:20
just like, "Oh yeah, these knickknacks
33:21
are my grandfather's. he was a druid.
33:24
Like it it's not something you think of
33:26
that that they have that history and
33:28
that's where they kind of came from. But
33:30
I I definitely agree that they're in
33:32
that area doing all kinds of research
33:35
throughout the last few decades of
33:38
tumultuous everything going on trying to
33:41
find different sources of power. And
33:43
yeah, Moonkin would be something that
33:45
you definitely have a small team
33:46
thinking, could we copy them? Could we
33:49
use them? Could we could we do
33:50
something? and and you'd have research
33:52
and books and scrolls and idols and
33:55
statues and things like that. So, I was
33:57
kind of thinking I was I was more on the
33:59
you know, no, there's going to be all
34:01
kinds of things in a library that dates
34:03
back for a long, you know, it only dates
34:05
back in Silver Moon for a little bit,
34:07
but I'm sure they brought a lot of their
34:09
knowledge with them and a lot of their
34:10
research going back for a lot further.
34:12
But now you've got I kind of got me
34:14
flipped over to the other side. Now I
34:16
think it could be
34:17
>> even Silver Moon. If you just said they
34:18
they brought it to Silver Moon. Silver
34:20
Moon is like 10,000 years old
34:23
>> cuz the the high the blood elves their
34:25
ancestors the high elves came over with
34:27
Dramar. Doar fought in the war of the
34:30
ancients. You know he was one of the few
34:33
highborn who was like this is crazy
34:36
guys. Seriously, this is crazy. We got
34:38
to we got to back it up. We whatever Zal
34:41
whatever their Gutavius is doing. No, we
34:44
don't want to be doing that. I'm going
34:46
to go I'm going to go talk to the the
34:48
moon guard. I think the moon guard might
34:50
help. You know,
34:51
>> it's just like somebody walking into
34:53
your local library and saying, "Oh, why
34:55
is that statue there on the shelf?" And
34:57
someone saying, "Oh, I don't know. It's
34:59
been there for eight or nine thousand
35:01
years." This is like,
35:02
>> yeah,
35:03
>> it could be it could be somebody put it
35:05
there this week because it's a project
35:06
they're working on, or it could be just
35:08
there for forever.
35:11
And I think too, I want to let Joe do
35:13
his his his theory, but one of the
35:15
things that I was thinking of as we keep
35:17
talking about this is that we see these
35:20
things as recurring themes over and over
35:22
again. And think about how many lost elf
35:26
cities are not reachable by us anymore
35:30
because they're underwater.
35:33
The ones we have left are the ones that
35:35
just happen to be on land that didn't
35:37
get taken in, you know, under the
35:39
maelstrom. But the Naga
35:42
have access to all of that stuff
35:46
and they their leader was Ashara.
35:50
So she already like if if there's magic,
35:53
Ashara was at least aware of it. She may
35:56
not have personally known it. like she
35:58
didn't know the the artifacts of that
36:01
created the night well. She didn't have
36:04
access to them directly, but the people
36:07
who were holding them, you know, you
36:09
know, served her up until they finally
36:11
were like, "Nope, nope. This is crazy."
36:13
And, you know, we're going to make a big
36:15
thing and seal the the city off. You can
36:18
just do what you're doing. We're going
36:19
to we're going to hide Suramar. This is
36:21
this is nuts. But up until that point,
36:24
they were working for her. So her and
36:27
the Naga have a pretty big head start on
36:30
this kind of thing. And think about like
36:32
what we've talking about the connection
36:34
to a divinity, the attempt to exploit a
36:37
divinity, Joe's thing about putting a
36:39
god in a bottle.
36:42
That feels like something that, you
36:44
know, Zat would be interested in. Let's
36:48
put it that way. Now, I'm going to shut
36:49
up and let Joe do his theory because I
36:51
want to see where it goes. I'm I'm
36:53
curious. Well, so it starts with this uh
36:57
the whole idea of blood elves being
37:02
like this they have this penchant for
37:05
bottling up like you said God or like
37:09
using alternate power sources, external
37:11
power sources, calling upon them.
37:13
>> Don't do trolls. Holy.
37:15
>> What would you say that?
37:17
>> Trolls do the same thing. Go on. Trolls
37:20
do exactly the same thing, which is
37:21
exactly what we're dealing with in the
37:23
current content. Uh, technically harir
37:26
do the same thing except they channel it
37:28
like they do the light where light
37:29
wielders are priests and paladins. So,
37:32
here's my my my tinfoil hat theory.
37:36
This is how we get night elf paladins.
37:40
So, stay with me.
37:42
One of the things that is currently
37:44
happening at the end of the last chapter
37:46
of this expansion before we went out
37:48
going into the troll raid is that the
37:50
elves have sort of reunited in Qualas.
37:54
We have Bellamth. We have all of the we
37:58
have that elf town over there and that's
37:59
fine and dandy, but that is very much a
38:02
night elf territory. As much as I wanted
38:05
it to be an elven melting pot, it's not
38:07
quite there yet. Qualas on the other
38:10
hand, that was the entire story of
38:12
Silver Moon and saving the the the
38:14
Sunwell, right? It was all of the elves
38:18
coming together, setting aside their
38:20
differences, and even if they don't love
38:23
each other, they're all still present,
38:25
right?
38:27
one magister whose maybe task was to
38:30
investigate the relationship between
38:32
Moonkin and Aloon and maybe do things
38:34
like understand more about Aloon.
38:38
Wouldn't that be of a little interest to
38:39
the night elves that are now showing up
38:43
that are sewing? Oh, you're you're
38:46
saying that Ramath is going to teach
38:47
them the same thing that he taught the
38:49
blood elves when he taught them how to
38:50
extract the light from the Naru,
38:52
>> except learning his lesson and not
38:55
teaching them how to subjugate, but how
38:57
to communicate more direct with Aloon.
39:00
Because up until this point, all
39:02
communication between the priestesses of
39:05
Aloon, with the exception of Teronda,
39:07
has been gentle nudges, feelings, not
39:10
really direct communication. or Moonkin.
39:14
>> Or Moonkin.
39:16
>> And we just figured out that the blood
39:19
elves are looking at Moonkin. He It's
39:21
not like Ramoth couldn't say, "Hey,
39:23
wait. What if we just
39:24
>> Yeah. Yeah. The Moon.
39:26
>> Hey, you priestess of Aloon, you you you
39:30
understand your god's whims to a certain
39:32
point, right? You know, Moonkin, right?
39:33
You know, they talk directly to her.
39:35
Here's what I found.
39:37
Maybe you guys could talk directly to
39:39
her and tap directly into her and not
39:42
just like getting her power like Toonda
39:45
did by begging and beseeching her and
39:48
having it flow directly into her. Tronda
39:50
had a direct communication with her.
39:52
They have more knowledge now, more
39:54
information that they could pull on. And
39:56
you have these these priestesses or
39:59
these these folks that worship Aloon
40:02
that maybe get a more direct connection
40:04
and are able to better channel Aloon's
40:07
presence and start wielding it in a more
40:10
direct way. They become warriors of
40:12
Aloon. Not night warriors, but warriors.
40:17
They understand the difference. They
40:19
have a line. And
40:21
>> do you know what you're doing to me here
40:22
though, Joe?
40:22
>> Go ahead. There's one more thing. They
40:24
go they go into a temple of Aloon and
40:26
there's a moonkin there. They and they
40:27
go up to the moonkin and basically it's
40:30
like they're giving it suggestions and
40:32
like asking it for the power of Aloon
40:34
and in order to become a night elf
40:36
paladin you have to get a moonkin to
40:38
bless you
40:40
>> which would be fine. I'd be on board
40:41
with that.
40:42
>> I would be on board with it too. I just
40:43
think it would be great like you know
40:45
because they still can't directly
40:47
understand the moonkin. So they're just
40:49
like hey Mr. Moonkin and the Moonkin
40:52
goes up
40:53
>> and then you're a paladin now.
40:57
>> But I mean but I mean it would also be
40:59
interesting too cuz then the other
41:00
aspect of this is again part of the
41:03
reason that the night warrior is such a
41:04
dangerous thing is that it's too much
41:07
power for one being to hold. But now you
41:11
have potentially thousands of beings
41:14
channeling that power. Not as the night
41:17
warrior, not so concentrated, not so uh
41:20
dark, right? They do it from the other
41:23
side. They they break it into the
41:24
spectrum. They worship and and pull it
41:26
into themselves in mass. Now they don't
41:29
blow up.
41:31
>> Go ahead.
41:32
>> Go ahead.
41:33
>> The blood elves
41:36
are paladins now.
41:38
>> Yes. They were blood knights. Blood
41:39
knights became paladins.
41:40
>> Toinhorin
41:43
who who rever is Musha
41:46
>> and Ani is the second
41:48
>> son is an Sunwell. the sun on she I'm
41:53
just saying maybe that the reason that
41:55
the
41:56
>> night of paladins don't turn into night
41:58
warriors and don't blow up is that they
42:00
get their power from both
42:02
>> and and I'm going to take it even a step
42:04
further the array symbol there is
42:08
important
42:10
>> and it's not an accident
42:12
>> they got a bunch of elves and a bunch of
42:14
they're the array are basically half
42:16
elves
42:17
>> here are all these paladins of the sun
42:20
essentially because yes, they worship
42:22
the light, but it's fire. It's it's
42:26
cleansing fire. Everything we've seen
42:28
about it has been described as like, you
42:30
know, a bonfire essentially, a beacon,
42:33
not just pure light like the rest of the
42:35
paladins that they've encountered are
42:36
wielding. Not even the ones that the
42:38
blood elf paladins are wielding right
42:40
now. Not quite the same thing. And you
42:44
now take that even a step further. If
42:45
they can interpret the power that way
42:48
and channel it through themselves in
42:50
such a manner, that's even more
42:51
information. It starts opening up the
42:55
the to me the definition of what a
42:58
paladin is even further and who can be a
43:01
paladin.
43:03
That's my tinfoil hat is that this is
43:05
the little things like this is the step
43:07
to the story to how we get night elf
43:09
paladins.
43:12
Any other thoughts on my crackpot
43:14
theory, guys? go for it.
43:15
>> I think it I think not only would it
43:17
work for night elves, it also opens up
43:19
the possibility for other kinds of
43:22
paladins like
43:24
>> you mean like dark rangers that channel
43:26
the the power of the shadowlands and not
43:28
are not death knights potentially as you
43:31
know
43:32
>> anti paladins. Yeah, ranged paladins
43:35
>> or you know hunters that serve as I'm
43:40
thinking about it in terms of trolls too
43:42
because trolls get their power
43:46
>> trolls troll paladin get their power
43:48
from lowa.
43:49
>> Yeah. And those troll paladins that we
43:53
have right now are getting their power
43:55
from essentially the lowa of kings.
43:59
>> Yeah. In this case it's wamdi.
44:02
Not anymore.
44:04
>> Well, is he's not back yet.
44:05
>> Things who is Yeah, that's my point.
44:09
When Vulggin comes back,
44:12
>> we could see Darkspear Paladins.
44:14
>> Yep.
44:15
>> You know, there's there's groups that
44:17
that it would make sense to see them get
44:20
paladins
44:22
that are different than the paladins we
44:23
already have. Like the the Dark Spear
44:26
could get paladins. It makes sense that
44:30
you know you that the elves like night
44:32
elves could finally get paladins from
44:34
Aloon because Aloon could finally be
44:35
like, "Hey, wait. What if I don't blow
44:37
them up?" Huh. I never thought of that.
44:40
I could just put enough power in and
44:42
spread it across a whole bunch of them
44:44
and then they don't blow up.
44:45
>> And I'm also going to throw it out there
44:46
that Zuljara is basically a paladin now.
44:49
>> Yeah. Yeah. And Ziljara is part of an
44:53
very old Arrayi
44:55
ideal
44:56
>> that didn't Yeah. Sorry. Ammani. Um the
45:00
the Ammani are like a one of two tribes
45:03
that were like, you know, basically kind
45:06
of dismissed by the the the Zendelar.
45:10
Not dismissed, but like, hey, why don't
45:11
you go fight all those things so that
45:12
you don't destroy our culture? Like,
45:14
you're totally going to do because
45:16
you're on the upswing. So, they have a
45:18
and we've seen like the big secret of
45:21
this I'm trying not to spoil anything,
45:23
but the big secret of this raid tier is
45:26
involved in something the Ammani did
45:29
that they should not have done.
45:31
>> Yeah. Harnessing the power in a in a way
45:33
that it was never intended, right?
45:36
>> Doing it the same way they you see done
45:38
later with Lowa.
45:40
>> The Ammani had that secret.
45:42
>> In fact, the Xandelar didn't have it.
45:46
The Zandelar didn't do that to their
45:49
gods. [snorts]
45:50
>> No, Zuul wanted to.
45:52
>> Oh, yeah. That's why he went out there
45:54
in the first place. Yep.
45:55
>> And then you see what happened in in in
45:58
gold, you know what the Zeldra
45:59
>> I I just want to point out there's a
46:01
reason why King's Rest is in the dungeon
46:03
rotation right now. And I believe this
46:05
plays into it.
46:07
>> Absolutely. So, I'm thinking you not
46:08
only do I think you have a point, I
46:09
think it could go even further than just
46:12
night elves. Nightborn don't currently
46:14
have paladins.
46:16
Don't think I know they have warriors.
46:18
>> Nope, they sure don't, but they could.
46:20
Yeah, I mean, and it would be kind of
46:22
interesting to see as a as much as I'm I
46:25
one of the things I want to see
46:26
eventually is you were talking about it
46:29
before just now you were talking about
46:30
it with, you know, Bellamth not really
46:33
being that elf every [snorts] every elf
46:35
place we want, but by Silver Moon
46:38
becoming a warfront and then having
46:40
Bellamth both exist and imagine how easy
46:42
it would be to create portals. I'd like
46:44
to see Nightbor and Night Elves
46:46
interacting in ways that are less
46:48
aggressive. I'd like to see Toronda
46:50
frankly just come out and say, "I was
46:51
too aggressive. I I pushed you too hard
46:54
at first. I was angry and I didn't trust
46:57
you and that's not me." You know, I'd
47:01
like to see a little bit of growth for
47:02
Toronto because while I do love her and
47:04
I think she got a lot of cool stuff the
47:06
last two expansions, I feel like she's
47:08
been on the back burner for a bit and
47:09
I'd like to see her come back up to
47:11
prominence.
47:11
>> Agreed. And I and I and I think I think
47:13
Shandra being forward in this one is
47:15
important, but I think Toonda has had
47:18
time to heal and needs to have a a bit
47:21
of story where it's I'm not just angry
47:23
woman anymore, and this is not a bad
47:25
opportunity to do that, right? Shanders
47:28
comes back to Teronda and says, "Hey,
47:30
they think they found a way to talk to
47:32
Aloon that doesn't blow you up from the
47:34
inside.
47:35
>> You should come with me and and go talk
47:36
with them. I know you're not the biggest
47:38
fan, but like you know Rometh, he's he's
47:40
kind of a jerk, but I think he's got
47:42
something here. Maybe we should go take
47:43
a look at it. Bring some of the
47:44
priestesses, right? Cuz like Shandra's
47:47
trained in that. She was supposed to be
47:49
a priest at one point. She understands
47:50
that relationship. Like she knows a
47:53
little bit about that and she's there.
47:56
She's literally there. She's the one
47:59
that convinced them to let go of the the
48:01
Sunwell and make it the Dawnwell. she
48:04
contributed to it like she's part of the
48:07
mending fences and a representative of
48:10
her mother, her adopted mother, but her
48:11
mother nonetheless.
48:13
And
48:14
>> yeah, I don't even like let's not even
48:15
say that cuz let's be upfront. Not only
48:18
has it been 10,000 years, but also it I
48:21
don't like it when we say, you know,
48:23
adopted like it's not parent, you know.
48:26
>> I agree. I agree. So,
48:27
>> but I mean, but it's just it's an
48:30
interesting story opportunity to jump
48:32
off of, at least in my opinion, because
48:33
there's so many things that could be
48:35
tied up into it. And like I know that
48:38
you're possibly thinking that this was a
48:39
little bit of a throwaway or potentially
48:42
like background stuff, but Luna, I'm
48:44
just going to call you Luna because it's
48:45
way easier than saying your whole name.
48:47
I apologize, but like
48:50
these are like I think you're right and
48:52
that there's more significance there. I
48:53
and I this is something that we've
48:55
talked about with the devs and the
48:56
storytellers in the game for a long
48:57
time. Sometimes stuff is just background
49:00
things because it looks cool, but more
49:03
often than not, if something is central
49:05
to a story or content or an expansion or
49:08
something that's going on, the details
49:11
matter. The details tell you things that
49:15
happen later on or that they've already
49:17
been planning in the story.
49:19
[sighs and gasps]
49:20
I don't think it's an accident that
49:22
there are six Moonkin figures in, you
49:26
know, this area in the the Lysanium,
49:29
right? If I remember correctly, the last
49:31
time we saw a Moonkin ritual performed
49:33
in game, it involved six moonkin
49:36
like they were all
49:37
>> I think the six moonkin in that winter
49:39
spring one. Yeah.
49:40
>> Yeah. And I think there was a later one
49:42
I think it was in Felwood where there
49:44
was another one where they were trying
49:45
to repair things. There were six of them
49:47
there too. Felwood or was that actually
49:49
like just south of Felwood?
49:51
>> It might have been just south of
49:51
Felwood. They might have
49:53
>> the the sadder who got turned back into
49:56
an elf.
49:56
>> Yes.
49:57
>> I think that they were involved in that.
49:58
>> Yeah. And there were six of them. All
50:00
right. And I I don't I don't think I'm
50:01
misremembering this and I I I'm not
50:03
going to spend time digging in real time
50:05
to go look it up because it just kind of
50:06
came to me. But like I don't think
50:08
that's an accidental number.
50:11
I I really don't. And again, the books,
50:14
the symbols, all of that stuff, the
50:16
travel
50:17
>> torches are going to be lit.
50:20
>> Five
50:21
>> because one is already lit
50:23
[clears throat]
50:23
>> maybe.
50:25
>> Okay. I I'm I'm coming back to that at
50:27
some other point. That just kind of
50:28
popped in my head. But again, like it's
50:31
it's it's I don't think it's accidental
50:34
because I think they took such great
50:36
care and even when you looked at the
50:38
interviews before Midnight release, they
50:40
talked about how important Silver Moon
50:43
was, not just to them, but for the next
50:47
stages and evolution of WoW. They
50:50
literally said this. And I don't think
50:53
they're talking about just the
50:54
technology. I think a lot of it is them
50:57
actually sitting there and and and
50:59
taking care of what they're putting in
51:01
where and what bits they're hiding and
51:04
what story elements they're putting
51:05
there cuz then 2 3 4 years from now they
51:08
can go back and say hey remember that
51:10
book you found randomly in the lysanium
51:13
here's the payoff right or or here's the
51:16
start of the breadcrumb or here's why it
51:18
is you know and again like
51:22
spy glasses zeppelin figures globes The
51:25
metal rocket ship. The metal rocket ship
51:27
to me screams Burning Crusade. It
51:29
screams
51:30
>> or Yeah. Yeah. Or it could very well be
51:32
the thing we've talked about for a long
51:34
time. At some point we may if we're
51:36
trying to contact Aloon, we may just go
51:39
>> to Aloon, you know.
51:41
>> But also like one of the things thinking
51:43
about is like spy glasses and airship
51:47
also could tie in to the Arathy which
51:50
you know symbols of the Arai are there.
51:52
At some point we are going to go see
51:53
those people. We are,
51:55
>> you know, there's no way we're not going
51:57
to not go see what's going on with the
51:59
Arai Empire. And their emperor sent them
52:03
to Hollow Fall in the first place.
52:06
>> You know that he didn't intend them to
52:07
go there because he didn't know it was
52:09
there. But he's the one that sent them
52:10
out and then they ended up there. That's
52:13
not there's there's stuff going on on
52:16
both sides that I think at some point
52:18
needs to come up.
52:20
>> Eric.
52:22
>> Yeah. I uh I I I just reflecting on the
52:26
fact that these race class combos have,
52:30
you know, had restrictions over the
52:33
years and after a couple decades, it's
52:35
kind of like every time we get a new one
52:37
there, there's story behind it and
52:39
there's l It's not just, okay, so now
52:42
gnomes can be this. It's well, how what
52:46
is their power? How do they get their
52:47
power? Who allows them to get their
52:49
power? Like there's all these dimensions
52:51
to it that you know the way you fill in
52:55
all those things is with story and
52:57
figuring out what okay so if this set of
53:01
elves is going to be able to be paladins
53:04
how why and there's reasons for it and
53:07
there's story to it and there's more
53:09
than just okay the next expansion that
53:11
that button lights up on the character
53:13
select screen and you can make it now
53:14
because we add two or three every time.
53:17
like the fact that they've thought
53:18
carefully about all this, it it makes it
53:21
feel like a a more, you know, rich
53:24
world. It makes it feel like it's they
53:26
don't just say like, "Oh yeah, in the
53:28
meantime, in the background, a bunch of
53:29
these night elves were training together
53:32
and they figured it out. Hey guys, they
53:33
figured it out. You can be paladins
53:34
now." Um, and it also makes me think
53:37
that we've already had this in game, but
53:39
when two characters of the same class
53:42
walk up to each other, but they're
53:43
different races and they get their power
53:44
in different ways, they could both be
53:47
druids or paladins and cast the same
53:50
spells and use the same light, but have
53:53
completely different approaches to it
53:55
that you'd barely like they're
53:56
technically both paladins. It's not like
53:59
they went to the same school and they
54:00
learned how to be paladins together.
54:02
It's so varied that that Yeah. I' I'd
54:05
buy this theory that the night elf
54:07
paladins could be a night warrior hive
54:09
mind. Sure, that sounds cool.
54:12
>> And just kind of go through it real
54:13
quick just to sort of throw it out there
54:15
like the other objects that that uh we
54:18
were getting here as far as the from
54:20
Luna is like yeah the books and things
54:23
like that. We have the the books with
54:25
contains a drawing that looks like ruins
54:27
the empire symbol on a page with text
54:30
and a man sitting in front of an altar
54:32
on the other page. possibly again
54:34
looking at that that motif of worship,
54:36
right? Diagrams reminiscent of
54:38
structures seen in the Shadowlands
54:40
Orbos, which makes sense too because
54:42
you're looking at power sources, how
54:44
things interconnect. Uh one that depicts
54:46
a stone building with the steeple and a
54:48
figure under the arch. Again, a symbol
54:50
of worship. Um a lot of different
54:52
diagrams connecting small symbols. uh
54:55
possibly phases of the moon, which would
54:57
make sense if they're looking at uh
54:59
Aloon or had been looking at Aloon as a
55:02
power source or maybe as a way to fight
55:04
Zalot. That could be recent research.
55:07
Different silver orbs rotating with
55:09
floating lines, blue orbs rotating in
55:12
gold, bunch of gemstones, hourglass,
55:15
vials and beers with all bunch of
55:17
liquids in them. two of which have a
55:19
crude gold moon design on top which may
55:22
mean that there that's water from a
55:24
night well or something along those
55:26
lines. Maybe Shandrris gave a vial to
55:28
the magesters after the Dawnwell was
55:30
founded. We don't know. All the
55:32
different zeppelins with white and red
55:34
flags leading more credence to Matt's
55:37
theory that this may be zeppelins of the
55:38
Arathy Empire. Uh a bunch of decorative
55:41
chests again more magical orbs. the
55:43
moonkin statues, a crude moon moon
55:46
statue, likely something indicating of
55:50
the moonkin or their worship of aloon.
55:53
Um, your quills and inks, your
55:54
compasses, your drafting compass, your
55:57
silver metallic rocket ships, your
55:58
wooden crates, uh, covered pots, ceranic
56:01
containers, duck plushies because duck
56:03
plushies are important, and then, you
56:06
know, some lanterns that glow in uh,
56:09
blue and gold. So, like it's a livedin
56:14
sort of assortment of things and stuff
56:16
that I could easily see showing up in
56:17
playerhousing,
56:19
but again, it's a lot of stuff that
56:21
seems to be centered around this idea of
56:22
worship or phases or pointing to
56:25
possibly like them looking into a
56:27
relationship with Aloon. Like, there's I
56:29
I can't get it out of my head. like I've
56:32
seen it and now that I've seen it and
56:33
looked at all the pictures and gone
56:35
there and took a taken a look around
56:37
myself the other night like it's there's
56:40
something there. This is not this is not
56:43
just there for the fun of it. I don't
56:45
think
56:47
but I think that's going to do it unless
56:48
you guys have anything else to add.
56:51
I mean we both all three of us know that
56:54
we could probably keep going until
56:56
tomorrow. But yeah, I I think I've said
56:59
enough for now and I want to think about
57:00
what I was thinking about.
57:02
>> I will just say that uh it makes me uh
57:05
regret the times that I have to, you
57:07
know, get the content done in game just
57:09
to for the sake of doing it. And I don't
57:11
get the time to stop and just wander
57:13
around places like this and look at
57:15
every single thing because if you care
57:16
about the lore, if you care about the
57:17
story and why all of these things are
57:20
happening and where we're going next,
57:22
then the best one of the best ways to do
57:24
it is to stop and listen to every line
57:26
of dialogue and walk around and look at
57:28
the little things that are on tables or
57:30
on library shelves. And you get not only
57:32
that sense of immersion, but you kind of
57:33
get that like, hey, this isn't this
57:35
isn't this doesn't belong here. What
57:36
could this mean? And you know, and it's
57:39
not for everybody. the people who just
57:40
want to log on and quest and raid and
57:42
that's it and like barely know about the
57:45
story, that's fine, too. But for those
57:46
of us that are really interested in the
57:48
story, this the slowing down is
57:49
something that there's so much to do in
57:51
the game now. It's hard to do, but I
57:52
always catch myself saying, I'm going to
57:54
take my time and like walk around this
57:57
area for 5 minutes and really see what's
57:58
here. It's it's so important
58:01
>> and highly recommend that's something
58:02
you do with your time in Silver Moon
58:03
City and Magister Steras. [sighs]
58:06
With that, friends, I do want to thank
58:08
you for joining us and remind you that
58:09
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58:29
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58:32
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58:34
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58:43
questions channel open for everybody.
58:44
Same rules apply as sending an email.
58:46
And if you are a Patreon subscriber, we
58:48
have the Patreon Q and podcast questions
58:50
channel set aside where we tend to look
58:52
there first as a special way of saying
58:53
thank you for helping us keep the lights
58:55
on. And until next time, folks, we'll
58:58
see you.
59:04
>> [music]
Games