Up next in 10
Doom's gore-fueled Hell was one of those games Tipper Gore woke up in cold sweats dreaming about in the 90s when they were all about censoring things for the good of the children. The story of Doom was initially a bit light on the ground (of Mars), being mostly just a vehicle for good ol fashioned wanton violence. But there have been so many entries in the series that now that Doom has several different alternate timelines worth of story. Joe and Matt rip and tear their way through the lore of Doom, from the early days through the Dark Ages and beyond.
Oh, and Isabelle from Animal Crossing and Doomguy are married. It's canon now. I don't make the rules.
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Show More Show Less View Video Transcript
0:00
[music]
0:06
[music]
0:10
Hello and welcome to lore watch round
0:11
table free form discussion about lore
0:13
and your favorite media. I'm your host
0:15
Joe Pres, one of several lore focused
0:16
folks from Blizzard watch and I've got
0:18
my marvelous co-host with me today, Matt
0:19
Rossy. How you doing today Matt?
0:21
>> Rip and tear until it is done.
0:24
>> [laughter]
0:25
>> Uh yes, normally
0:27
>> normally we would be answering some
0:29
questions from your wonderful listeners,
0:30
but today uh we have a Patreon request
0:33
and this one comes from Marie uh
0:36
longtime friend of the show. Uh had put
0:38
this out there and gotten uh quite a
0:40
good response from other Patreon
0:42
subscribers. So, uh instead of answering
0:45
questions, we're going to be talking
0:46
about the story of the Doom video games
0:50
or the Doom universe really. Um, but
0:53
that shouldn't stop you from sending
0:54
questions into us. We like them. You
0:56
should send them to us. And we have
0:58
several ways that you can do so. You can
1:00
send us an email at
1:01
podcastbizzardwatch.com.
1:03
Uh, we ask that you specify which of our
1:05
many shows it is for in the subject line
1:07
as well as any special pronunciation of
1:08
your name. And you can also hit us on
1:11
Discord. We have the Q and Podcast
1:12
Question channel open for everybody.
1:14
Same rules apply. And if you are a
1:16
Patreon subscriber, the Patreon Q and
1:18
Podcast Question channel uh is set aside
1:20
specifically for you. and we always look
1:22
there first as a way of saying thank you
1:24
for helping us keep the lights on. Uh,
1:26
with that, uh, I'm going to cue the Doom
1:28
music and toss it over to Matt, uh,
1:31
who's been chomping at the bit and I'm
1:32
pretty sure has been sharpening his, uh,
1:34
his chainsaw blades for this episode in
1:37
particular.
1:37
>> Just the shield. Just the shield has a
1:40
blade. It's It's cool. We're cool. Kind
1:42
of rotates like a saw. It's I love that
1:44
shield. Hi guys. Um, Doom is one of
1:48
those games where the game franchise is
1:50
where it's been around for a good chunk
1:52
of time. I think the first game came out
1:54
in like 1990. And I, amazingly, for a
1:57
series that's had like a couple of
1:59
reboots, it does still share the same
2:01
timeline. Like everything that happens
2:04
in the first three Doom games has
2:07
happened to the protagonist of the last
2:10
three Doom games because it's the same
2:12
person.
2:13
>> Yeah. to to clarify the uh the the Doom
2:15
universe is largely divided into two
2:18
eras. There's the classic era which is
2:20
the MS
2:22
>> through Doom 3 Doom through Doom uh Doom
2:24
through Doom 3ish.
2:26
Um and then there is the modern era
2:29
which was the reboot with uh uh Doom
2:32
2016.
2:33
>> Yep. Doom in 2016. Doom Eternal in I
2:36
want to say 2020. I don't remember
2:38
exactly when, but and then Doom: The
2:40
Dark Ages, uh, I believe last year, so
2:44
2025. So, there have been three of the
2:46
original mainline games and then three,
2:50
would you call not a reboot so much as a
2:52
as like a reverb or what have you. It's
2:55
it's it's the same basic world, but it's
2:58
it's changed by time passing and so
3:01
forth. Uh, there's also games that are
3:03
not considered part of this of the, and
3:06
I'm using my air quotes as hard as I
3:08
can, canon of the Doom series, like the
3:11
Doom RPG, which was a a mobile game, and
3:14
some others. And the Doom that came out,
3:17
another Doom came out uh in like 2003,
3:22
or is it 2004? I all I know is that
3:24
there's a Doom kind of in the middle of
3:26
all this that is not considered to be
3:28
part of either of the the Dooms.
3:30
>> Doom 3 in 2004 is largely considered to
3:34
be outside of the normal cannon.
3:36
However,
3:37
>> um there are things
3:38
>> they broke a lot of it.
3:39
>> Yeah, they they they started a lot of
3:41
stuff from it. Um but so we're going to
3:43
talk first about I I rather than tell
3:46
you the entire lore of the setting which
3:48
is grandiose. I'm gonna start with the
3:51
basics and then as we go on see how far
3:55
we get to to telling you guys more about
3:57
the um but the the when you first play
4:01
Doom uh 1993 the original game you don't
4:04
know the character's name like you you
4:06
know he's called
4:08
>> yeah he's just called Doom guy if he's
4:10
he's not referenced at all in the game
4:12
there's no there's no dialogue in the
4:14
game it is a firsterson shooter of the
4:17
old school where it was literally just
4:19
you moving through a kind of static area
4:24
and you could only you could turn right
4:26
and left or around, but that was
4:28
basically it. Uh the entire world was
4:31
presented as if you were in a maze. And
4:34
a lot of people loved it. I loved it. Um
4:36
it was very similar to its predecessor,
4:38
uh Return Castle Wolfenstein. And there
4:41
that's not entirely an accident because
4:43
even at the time they were making Doom,
4:46
they had decided that that the Doom guy,
4:49
the Doom Marine as they were calling him
4:50
at the time, he was going to be a
4:52
descendant of the hero of Castle
4:54
Wolverenstein, whose name is BJ
4:55
Blasowitz. uh they had already decided
4:57
that but then they later kind of decided
4:59
it had to actually be a descendant of
5:01
Commander Keen who was BJ Blasowit's
5:04
grandson who grew up you know a well
5:08
after World War II because that's the
5:10
time period of of Wolfenstein. All of
5:13
this kind of inflects on how when you
5:15
play Doom the the character is presented
5:17
he looks very similar to BJ in terms of
5:20
his face and so forth
5:21
>> in the interface we should say. That's
5:23
the only time you see the face in the
5:24
early games. You never see the inter the
5:26
face otherwise. You just see in the
5:28
interface. It's actually how they tell
5:29
you if you're too injured to keep going.
5:32
Basically, you should be using a health
5:33
item now because look at you. You're
5:35
completely covered in blood. Um and it's
5:38
yours as opposed to all the demon. But
5:40
it's it was a fairly standard. You know
5:42
what the the story that you had at the
5:44
time, the story you resented was uh your
5:47
character is sent to Mars kind of as a
5:50
punishment because you struck a superior
5:52
officer when he gave you an illegal
5:54
order. He had basically told you to do
5:56
something. That's not that's not
5:58
revealed what he was told he told you to
5:59
do, but he told you to do something and
6:02
it ended up happening despite you trying
6:04
to stop it and you attacked him for what
6:07
he had done. And rather than kill you,
6:09
they sent you to Mars. At the time, it
6:11
was set in the far-flung future of the
6:13
year 20XX,
6:16
as as as JRPGs love to do. It was
6:18
sometime in the 21st century and you
6:21
were being sent to a a a UAC or I can
6:24
never remember if the UAC is United Air
6:26
or Arms. I can't remember what UAC
6:30
stands for.
6:30
>> Union. It's Union Aerospace Corporation.
6:33
>> Thank you. I always forget because it's
6:36
>> UAC is something that used in a lot of
6:38
different places. Yeah.
6:39
>> Yeah. So, you you go you go to Mars and
6:43
you find out first off uh Phobos is
6:46
missing. That's weird. Uh, secondly,
6:49
Damos is completely infested with
6:51
demons. That's also weird. Other people
6:53
might have chosen to panic at this
6:55
point, but apparently that's not you.
6:58
And you spend the rest of the game
6:59
absolutely massacring your way through
7:01
wave after wave after wave of demons.
7:04
>> Should we talk about Should we talk
7:05
about the the reason why the Mars and
7:09
Phobos and Damos were used by UAC? Cuz I
7:12
think that kind of informs the story and
7:13
some of the experimentation they were
7:14
doing because I think that's important
7:16
here.
7:16
>> Yeah. No, it's it's a big deal.
7:18
>> Yeah. So, real real quick, part of the
7:20
reason you're sent there is, you know,
7:21
to guard the facility, air quote, um
7:24
because uh Mars is essentially a
7:26
radioactive waste facility. Uh with
7:30
Phobos and Daimos, the two moons of Mars
7:33
being the primary facilities in which
7:35
they are testing uh new weapons and new
7:39
technology. And one of the things that
7:41
they are testing is a gateway between
7:45
Phobos and Deemos uh where they would
7:48
throw things through them and then watch
7:50
them come out uh the other side. Uh and
7:53
>> a way to basically tr if it worked
7:55
properly and was vetted to be safe, you
7:57
could then travel straight from Phobos
7:58
to Deamos without having to go in his
8:01
ship or anything. And part of the reason
8:02
why being sent there as punishment is
8:04
important is because at this time
8:05
certain um and we're going to air quote
8:07
them volunteers uh would go through the
8:09
gateway and then be completely missing.
8:12
They would never show up on the other
8:13
side. So you know going there it wasn't
8:17
sure if you were going to be uh you know
8:19
left to your own devices on guard duty
8:20
or if you're going to be volunte.
8:23
>> Yeah. And so the reason for this gateway
8:26
was actually a it was a breakoff from
8:28
their attempt to come up with a and this
8:31
is more talked about in the later games,
8:33
but their attempt to come up with
8:34
basically a means to solve the power
8:36
problem.
8:37
>> Mhm.
8:38
>> Because on Earth, one of the reasons
8:39
that the the world had gotten so
8:41
militarized is because much like in
8:44
Fallout, they were running out of
8:46
resources. They were running out of
8:48
fossil fuels. Uh nobody liked nuclear
8:51
power. They were looking for a clean,
8:53
sustainable form of energy and they just
8:55
didn't like solar because nobody does.
8:57
Uh so that was a part of it. That was
9:00
the the impetus behind the
9:02
experimentation.
9:04
But instant teleportation is still also
9:06
pretty cool. If they could open a portal
9:08
from like Damos and Phobos to Earth, you
9:11
don't have to you wouldn't have to take
9:12
a ship anymore. Uh it would make space
9:15
travel a lot easier if you could just
9:17
open portals where you wanted to go. But
9:19
when you get there, the portals have
9:20
revealed their secret, which is that
9:23
yeah, you were you weren't just sending
9:25
people through portals. You were
9:26
throwing snacks at a dimension of demon
9:30
monsters that want to eat. It's it's
9:31
literally like if you found a dimension
9:33
of sharks and you were just tossing chum
9:36
through, hoping that eventually the chum
9:38
would get to the other side. No, you
9:40
just you just got them to come out. They
9:42
just finally were like, "Uh, they
9:44
haven't thrown anything through for a
9:45
while. Let's let's go see where the rest
9:47
of the snacks That's what happens if you
9:49
then spend the entire game fighting your
9:51
way through to shut down the portal
9:53
because you you would like to shut down
9:55
the portal now, please. Um, and you do
9:58
succeed in doing it, but you have to go
10:00
through the portal yourself at one
10:01
point, and that means you end up in
10:03
hell. Uh, and you then have to fight
10:05
your way through hell just to get out
10:07
and be on Phobos in order to shut the
10:10
portal off. You do that, and then you
10:12
you go to go home. You want to go home,
10:15
but you find out that Earth has been
10:17
invaded by demons. And uh do we talk
10:20
about the bunny?
10:20
>> We haven't talked about the bunny. We
10:22
should talk about the bunny.
10:23
>> When you get home, you find out that not
10:26
only have the demons invaded Earth and
10:28
are currently, you know, bucking wild as
10:31
so to speak. They've also killed your
10:34
pet rabbit and stuck his head on a pike,
10:36
which is one of those things where it's
10:37
like hell hell is petty, but but also at
10:40
least they're thorough. Uh, so that's
10:42
how Doom ends. Doom 2 involves a whole
10:45
lot of demonic figures. Um, the the one
10:48
that always keeps coming to mind for me,
10:51
uh, is the icon of sin. Uh, I believe
10:54
it's icon of sin, right?
10:55
>> Yes.
10:55
>> Yeah. The icon of sin, who is sort of
10:57
like he's less a malevolent mastermind.
11:01
We got plenty of those, but the icon of
11:03
sin is more of just like this engine of
11:05
destruction that they're using to just
11:07
wipe out everything on on the earth
11:09
that's getting in their way. You
11:11
eventually fight through multiple demon
11:13
lords, get to the icon of sin. Uh if you
11:17
ever cheated to get inside, actually
11:19
inside the icon of sin, you find out
11:21
that the icon of sin is actually John
11:23
Romero, uh who is one of the two people
11:25
who helped develop and create Doom for
11:28
ID Software. And then you essentially
11:33
kill it and then you're gone. No one
11:36
knows what happened to you. You're just
11:37
gone. You defeat all the demons. You
11:40
save Earth from the invasion. Although
11:41
it's one of those save Earth from the
11:43
invasions where nine ten of humanity
11:46
didn't get to make it out, but but you
11:48
save some, but some people were saved.
11:50
uh you destroyed the UAC facility um on
11:54
Deamos to do it, but you you do get that
11:57
uh those demons to stop or at least for
11:59
the for the moment to stop and then
12:02
you're missing uh in Doom 3, which is
12:05
the the one that's 200 Did you say three
12:07
or four or is it 2005
12:09
>> for the uh
12:11
>> three?
12:12
>> Yeah, for three.
12:13
>> 2003.
12:14
>> Okay. 2003 they they came out with a
12:16
much more it was it was caught up to the
12:19
times in terms of graphics. It it was
12:21
more of a survival horror game. It
12:23
doesn't star the protagonist
12:25
>> which was the first which is one of the
12:27
reasons why it was very very uh for a
12:30
very long time not included or anything
12:32
pulled from it into the the actual
12:34
mainline cannon story.
12:36
>> Yeah. It it it's essentially a soft
12:38
reboot where they're like, "Okay, well,
12:40
the Doom Guy's gone, but now your
12:41
character from is is now here and he's
12:44
going to fight these demon monsters who
12:46
are certainly creepy and scary." But the
12:49
the the whole it was kind of trying to
12:51
be more of a Resident Evil game kind of
12:54
than the Doom game where it's much
12:57
closer to a full-on hacker slasher type
12:59
deal. Uh, so the demons were tried to
13:01
make they tried to make the demons a
13:02
little scarier and to make it so less
13:05
less like you were carving your way
13:07
through them like as an avatar of rage
13:09
and more like you're terrifiedly just
13:11
trying to stay alive and figure out how
13:13
to get out of this. Uh, but it it had a
13:16
lot of cool innovations to the way that
13:18
the monsters worked. Um, and their lore.
13:21
Like the they actually gave names to
13:23
several of them and the ones that
13:25
already had names. Uh, they they were
13:28
more like the cyber demon is much more
13:30
emphatically designed in that game than
13:32
it was in previous ones because, you
13:34
know, going from like a, you know, a
13:36
like a 16-bit, you know, uh, shooter to
13:39
a much more fully realized open world
13:42
type game. It wasn't an open world game,
13:43
but it had more of a world to move
13:45
around in. Uh, so that one came out and
13:48
it was not bad. I didn't hate it, but it
13:51
didn't really do much to advance the
13:53
story. Like, you don't find out a lot
13:55
about what's going on other than demons
13:57
are doing it, you know, and the demons
13:59
themselves are fairly forgettable other
14:02
than like, you know, like occasional
14:03
ones like the Icon of Sin. It wasn't
14:05
until Doom 2016 that things, narratively
14:08
speaking, things take off. Uh, and
14:10
again, Doom 2016
14:13
didn't throw the baby out with the
14:15
bathwater. They they were like, "No,
14:17
this is the same world and that's the
14:20
same person,
14:21
>> but something has happened." Cuz the
14:24
last time we saw him, he was, you know,
14:27
basically getting himself permanently
14:30
banished to hell while destroying the
14:31
UAC facility on Damos. What's he doing?
14:35
How how do we get him in? What's the
14:37
hook? The opening of Doom 2016, I think,
14:40
is a master class in how to tell story
14:42
with a with a character who doesn't
14:44
talk. And the only other game I can
14:47
think of that does it even remotely as
14:49
well and in completely different way is
14:51
The Wind Waker uh or other Zelda games.
14:54
Uh Breath of the Wild's a good example.
14:57
Um Tears of the Kingdom is a good
14:58
example. Link doesn't talk. When you see
15:00
a scene of Link hanging out with
15:02
somebody, at no point does Link talk. Uh
15:04
but at least Link has dialogue buttons.
15:07
You can talk to people in the game and
15:09
so forth. In Doom, everybody talks but
15:12
the Doomslayer. And when you first see
15:14
him, he's chained into an ancient
15:16
sarcophagus and demons are coming to
15:18
kill him. And he re literally rips his
15:21
way out of the chains and uses his his
15:23
hand to kill a demon, which he then uses
15:25
to get his other hand free. And it's
15:26
just from that moment on, he never all
15:30
of his characterization, all the story
15:32
of the game is told through other people
15:34
talking and him acting. Like the one
15:36
that always gets me is in the opening of
15:38
the game. Uh you find out that a man
15:39
named Samuel hate who we're coming back.
15:43
Uh Samuel Hate has decided that the UAC
15:46
should go back into its experiments
15:48
because these the Argent energy, that's
15:50
what they're calling it, uh was such a
15:52
good power source for the Earth.
15:54
>> You know, the the the energy that they
15:56
were ripping straight out of hell.
15:57
>> Yeah. The energy they were taking out of
15:58
hell. And so, you know, he's like,
16:00
"Sure, mistakes were made, but you know,
16:02
we were doing this for the betterment of
16:04
humanity." And literally the Doom guy is
16:06
just sitting there making sure his armor
16:08
is on properly and picking up a shotgun
16:11
he found off of one of the people on the
16:12
ground and he just smashes the the
16:15
controls so he doesn't have to hear hate
16:16
talk anymore. Racks the gun and the
16:19
music starts swelling and like you're in
16:20
the game now. As you go through the
16:22
game, you find out that this research
16:24
facility is as bad as it is because one
16:28
of the two people who are the most
16:29
important in the facility. Uh, and she's
16:33
basically the main antagonist throughout
16:34
the rest of this game. And once again,
16:36
Matt can't remember her name even though
16:37
I just looked it up. Uh, sometimes I
16:39
think I have Alzheimer's. But
16:41
regardless, she's like working for hell
16:44
now. like she she broke when she one of
16:46
the things that they they really
16:48
emphasize in the the modern trilogy that
16:51
was kind of hinted at in the original
16:52
games is that some people just break
16:55
when they're exposed to uh the argent
16:57
energy that comes from hell. The the
16:59
various ciphers and glyphs and all the
17:02
stuff that's coming out of this, it
17:05
breaks people. Some people just can't
17:07
take it. They they look at it and they
17:08
go crazy. Maybe they run off. Maybe they
17:11
just maybe they start just worshiping
17:12
the demons and that's all, you know,
17:15
helping me, you know, her plan is to
17:17
basically become a cyber demon and, you
17:21
know, help rule in hell and and serve
17:24
the course of evil because she's broken
17:26
from from experiencing like the whispers
17:28
and so forth. hate seems to have known
17:31
about it but doesn't he's not in he's
17:33
not affected by it but he seems eerily
17:36
familiar with it which you know as
17:38
you're listening to him talk it's
17:39
becomes more and more clear that he's
17:41
attempting to use you as a way through
17:43
all this
17:45
>> and he doesn't necessarily have your
17:47
interest at heart however you've got a
17:48
friendly AI who is going to help you and
17:51
actually is the best person in the
17:53
entire game that that whole deal that
17:55
entire setup leads you through multiple
17:58
trick Like one of the favorite moments
18:00
was was when they tell you know they
18:02
basically tell you you can't just shoot
18:04
Mars to to open a a rift to a city.
18:07
That's in the second game though. That's
18:08
in Doom Eternal. But regardless, they're
18:10
constantly telling you you can't do that
18:11
and then you do it because you know
18:12
you're the Doom guy. Uh you're the Doom
18:15
Slayer now. They actually call you the
18:17
Slayer and the demons are afraid of you.
18:19
And it it for good reason because you
18:21
start killing them with like your bare
18:23
hands and then throughout the game you
18:25
get bigger and bigger things to kill
18:26
them with. um until you get to the end
18:30
and you you're basically tricked like
18:34
you you know hate has tricks you and
18:37
essentially turns you off long enough to
18:39
strand you out in the cosmos somewhere.
18:41
He doesn't kill you. He's very clear
18:43
about not wanting you dead, but he does
18:46
banish you so he can grab the thing that
18:48
allows him to tap into as much demonic
18:51
power as he possibly can. And that's the
18:54
end of the game. You've killed the big
18:56
boss at this point. You've killed her.
18:57
You've killed all your minions. You've
18:59
cleared the way to this powerful
19:01
artifact that you're going to use to
19:02
basically shut all the portals. And he
19:04
tricks you into another dimension and
19:07
steals it for himself. And that's the
19:08
end of Doom 2016. And in Doom Eternal,
19:11
we find out that the demons aren't they
19:15
are certainly the bad guys. You should
19:17
not like the demons, but there is a
19:20
entire race called the Makers,
19:22
>> and they're essentially angels.
19:24
>> Uh Joe, do you want to talk about the
19:25
Makers? cuz you went yes cuz I feel like
19:27
>> Well, yeah. So, a little bit a little
19:28
bit about the the makers are essentially
19:30
angels, but they are essentially uh
19:32
servants of the primeval gods
19:35
essentially. Um, and they are they were
19:38
created by uh somebody known as Davoth
19:42
uh who is also known as the dark lord.
19:44
He is the supreme ruler of hell. Um,
19:48
which you know, totally normal,
19:50
perfectly fine, nothing to worry about.
19:53
Um, and this really gets fleshed out in
19:56
Doom Eternal uh when they I think it's
19:59
the ancient gods uh expansion or or DLC
20:02
I think it was whatever it was.
20:04
>> Um, so the the Marquer the Makear uh are
20:08
these like angels is a good way to put
20:11
it, but they're also like cultists in a
20:13
lot of ways. Um,
20:15
>> yeah, they they use cults. They like to
20:16
create in cults where they are they they
20:18
yet worshiped by others as a means to
20:21
guide and control things.
20:23
>> Yeah. And they are uh a transcendental
20:25
race essentially because they're able to
20:27
exist in multiple realities at once. Uh
20:30
they're not exactly uh hurt by hell or
20:34
by being in reality as it were or our
20:36
our section of the universe. Um and
20:39
they're a hive mind race. uh which means
20:42
that when you deal with one of them or
20:44
any of them, they all know what the
20:46
other ones know. Um they are essentially
20:50
humanoidish figures. They have two arms
20:53
uh that each end in uh between three to
20:56
five digits. Um and then their lower
20:59
body is generally a bunch of tentacles
21:01
like a Cthulhuesque monster because
21:03
they're made to work like they're they
21:04
were essentially made to exist in the
21:07
void or space. Uh so they don't need
21:09
legs. legs are legs are for for humans
21:11
and normies. We don't need that.
21:14
Um and they have a lot of the
21:16
traditional trappings that you would
21:17
find associated with um holy crusaders
21:21
or uh churches or warriors in a lot of
21:25
iconography in other games. So a lot of
21:27
their motifs revolve around like gold
21:30
and white. uh a lot of the sort of like
21:32
almost like borderline uh puritanical
21:37
uh effiges uh which is a interesting
21:40
juxosition considering that they
21:42
essentially are all uh servants of or
21:46
I'm sorry of um the dark lord uh
21:49
>> Dave off so it's it's always interesting
21:51
and then your dealings with them uh
21:55
which we could talk about later on um
21:59
but they are present on apparently Earth
22:02
and Argent Denure which is the world in
22:06
which the Dark Ages Doom the Dark Angels
22:08
takes place. Um
22:10
>> yeah,
22:11
>> it's also the place where you find out
22:13
when the the original Doom guy vanished
22:16
at the end of Doom 2, he ended up
22:19
drifting through multiple realities
22:21
until he ended up basically half alive
22:24
on the planet Argent Denure. He stumbled
22:27
into the native people which are also
22:28
humans by the way and we still don't
22:31
actually know why that is. There's no
22:32
explanation as to why they're humans
22:34
there.
22:34
>> There's no there's no explanation to it
22:36
yet. Although there is a theory that
22:37
humans are essentially a seed race
22:39
>> that are planted by by the the
22:41
>> markers. Yeah. I mean there's certainly
22:43
lots of possibilities. There's lots of
22:45
connections in terms of places on earth
22:48
that are connected to some other reality
22:51
whether it's Argentinor or what the
22:53
world that was once called Jakad which
22:55
eventually turns into hell.
22:56
>> Mhm.
22:57
>> Um when the Doomslayer like we talk
23:01
about eternal first and we'll go back
23:02
for like this part. But when the
23:03
Doomslayer ended up on Argentina, things
23:06
happened uh that ended up with him being
23:08
betrayed and sealed up in a sarcophagus
23:12
to keep him from preventing the maker's
23:15
plans, which now that he's on Earth
23:17
again after, and keep in mind, we don't
23:20
know how long ago this all happened
23:24
because of something Samuel Hate did,
23:26
and we're about to find out about that.
23:27
So, I'll just talk to about it. Hate
23:30
turns out to not be hate. He's one of
23:32
the makers.
23:34
>> He's in fact the one he's the one that
23:36
the other makers consider a traitor. uh
23:39
because he's the one he is a servant of
23:42
the one the the the one called the first
23:44
or the firstborn who the father also um
23:48
the father of the makers was you know
23:51
basically Davos's first creation first
23:54
maker he made he betrayed Davoth
23:57
[clears throat] and it's in his betrayal
24:00
while the other makers benefited from it
24:02
they didn't trust him because he turned
24:04
on their maker literally you know what
24:07
are they gonna you How are they going to
24:08
trust him? He eventually got sealed away
24:12
partially because Dave Off wanted to
24:13
kill him. So, he was very much not
24:15
wanting to leave himself physically
24:17
available.
24:18
>> We should also specify real quick here
24:20
because this is also important to keep
24:22
in mind as we're talking about this.
24:24
>> Davoth is Satan
24:26
>> in this in this in this game universe.
24:28
He is Lucifer. Uh that is exactly what
24:31
they lay out for you when you you wind
24:33
up dealing with uh DevOp. So keep that
24:36
in mind as we're talking about this.
24:39
>> He's also something else, but we'll talk
24:40
about what that is.
24:41
>> Yeah.
24:41
>> Um ba basically it goes like this. The
24:43
father betrayed Daveoth and sealed him
24:45
away so he couldn't leave Jakad. Uh in
24:48
his fury and revenge wanting uh Davoth
24:52
created the demon hordes and began
24:54
sending them out into any world he get
24:56
them into. Uh just because he was just
24:59
that mad about his betrayal. Uh the
25:02
father essentially realized eventually
25:04
they're going to find me and kill me.
25:05
And uh I the only way for me to avoid
25:07
that is to not exist. So he kind of
25:09
banished himself to non-existence. And
25:12
hate was one of his his b biggest
25:14
servants. He was like one of the like
25:16
the con maker and the others. The hate
25:19
was like the the father's biggest
25:21
supporter.
25:22
>> He was the Metaton.
25:23
>> He went Yeah. He went to Earth and
25:26
essentially created a situation where
25:29
the Doom guy got sent to Mars because he
25:31
was looking for somebody who would be
25:33
useful. When they finally got when they
25:36
got him on Argentinur,
25:38
the s the hate uh maker, you could call
25:41
him the maker who was Samuel hate used a
25:44
device called the you know the god
25:46
machine on the doom guy and it
25:49
essentially conveyed enormous powers to
25:50
him but basically they they tried
25:53
locking him down and controlling him.
25:56
This didn't work. But now as a result of
25:58
it the Doom guy is a primordial being.
26:00
He's like he's like one of the ancient
26:02
gods. He's similar to uh Dave off in
26:06
many ways. He's like a reflection of him
26:08
because of what was what was done to him
26:09
with the machine. This during Doom
26:11
Eternal while the Doom guy is, you know,
26:13
he fights his way through a whole bunch
26:15
of demons, gets to where Samuel hates
26:17
half alive robot body is, you know,
26:19
sitting in a tube and, you know, drags
26:22
it out and is carrying it around with
26:24
him. gets the the the power key, the
26:27
thing that allowed Hate to tap energy
26:29
directly from Argentinor, which was
26:31
itself energy from the demons that are
26:33
in Jakad. And thanks to his his AI
26:36
companion, figures out how eventually to
26:40
to be able to stop the whole thing. He
26:42
goes back to Argentinur. He runs into
26:44
people that he knew who are now dead. Um
26:47
he's told you can't by our highest laws,
26:49
you can't do anything to the summoners,
26:52
the priests that turned and served the
26:54
demons because they're in they're
26:56
sacrianked. They're in violate. You
26:57
can't do this. The king tells him this.
26:59
He immediately goes and kills the guy
27:01
because I don't care. I don't care how
27:03
how important he is in your society.
27:05
Your societyy's mostly dead and I sure I
27:09
worked for you for a while, but I was
27:10
never I'm never from here. goes, he goes
27:13
through, kills the guy, angers the
27:15
makers, they start sending things to
27:16
kill him. Uh, including the uh, what is
27:20
he called? I I I want to say the the the
27:22
he's really the like the hardest boss in
27:24
Doom Eternal. Um, but I cannot remember
27:26
his name off the top of my head. He's
27:28
essentially like a a demon version of
27:30
the Doom guy. Like he's wearing similar
27:32
armor.
27:32
>> No, that that's that is uh uh why can't
27:37
I think of his name now? It is
27:38
>> broader. No, no, that's that's at the
27:40
end. This is before that that we get um
27:43
the marauder who is like a he's
27:45
basically a member of the same
27:46
knighthood that the Doom guy ended up in
27:49
when he was on Argentinur except this is
27:51
the son of one of the people who turned
27:53
on their uh whole world and this ends up
27:57
being the big fight in the in the game
27:59
but it's not Joe is right and I
28:01
shouldn't have said he was the big boss.
28:02
He's just a really really hard fight in
28:04
the middle of the game.
28:04
>> He's he's very difficult because he's
28:06
essentially a clone of you in every way,
28:07
right? like it's it's essentially it's
28:09
it's the same thing like if you're
28:10
playing the Legend of Zelda games
28:12
>> when you're fighting Dark Link, uh it is
28:15
your Dark Link.
28:15
>> He's literally got the you know,
28:18
>> we'll tell you sometime about the the
28:19
the about the link theory, but anyway,
28:22
um you get through all this, you
28:24
eventually get to Earth after having
28:27
used the giant space station laser to
28:30
shoot a hole in Mars. And everyone keeps
28:32
telling you you can't just shoot Mars
28:33
and you do. And then you take the best
28:35
part is you rip the laser thing out and
28:37
carry it around with you. It's the BFG
28:39
from the first games. Uh, and it's
28:41
amazing and you love it. Uh, you go
28:43
through Mars. You end up traveling to an
28:46
ancient Argentiner city on Mars. How
28:49
[clears throat] did it get there? Did
28:50
the Argentinura just have a base on
28:52
Mars? We don't know. But there it is.
28:54
It's a city. It's on Mars. It's
28:56
underneath the surface. You go there.
28:58
you eventually get to Earth where you
29:00
destroy a new version of the icon of sin
29:02
and save what little is left. Um, if if
29:06
you thought that 9/10en thing was bad,
29:08
this time it's like one out of a hundred
29:10
people. Uh, [clears throat] Earth has
29:13
been heavily scarred by the demon
29:14
attacks. It's all messed up. But Doom
29:17
guy, the the Doomslayer is not
29:19
necessarily concerned with staying
29:20
behind and rebuilding. That is not his
29:22
deal. His deal is rip and tear until it
29:25
is done. and he immediately starts going
29:28
through into Argentinor and through that
29:31
to the maker home world of which is
29:33
essentially heaven. Uh where you just f
29:36
up everything until they explain to you
29:39
how to get to Dave off who is you
29:42
finally run into Dave off. Uh I think
29:44
you see him before he retreats.
29:46
>> Yes.
29:47
>> And when you see him, he's you. He looks
29:50
just like you. And that's not it's not
29:53
him appearing as you. He is his he is
29:57
hell's version of you. You have become a
30:00
reflection of him and he has always been
30:03
a reflection of you. This this was
30:06
always going to happen. You were always
30:08
fight this.
30:08
>> Think of think of this is it's very much
30:10
a a parallel between uh the description
30:14
of Lucifer and Michael if is really the
30:17
best way to put it. You are essentially
30:18
Michael except you are a a seraraphim or
30:22
a archangel of war. Uh you know only
30:27
war. That is your entire purpose. Your
30:29
entire purpose is to go and and
30:31
essentially tear down the legions of
30:32
hell. And Davoth is Lucifer. Uh Davoth
30:36
is the one that you know was born with
30:39
this unfettered love for his own people
30:42
but then realized that he was doomed to
30:45
be mortal. uh and then started his whole
30:48
uh rebellion against the father in which
30:51
you know he essentially became the ruler
30:53
of hell and those demons are his
30:55
creation and his people. Uh and it was
30:57
all part of his crusade to become this
30:59
eternal being this supreme ruler. Uh,
31:02
and it also find out that throughout
31:04
this that Daveoth is the true first
31:07
being ever created in the universe by
31:10
the father, which is like it's crazy
31:14
that they did this. U, but it also makes
31:16
some weird amount of sense. Uh, and it
31:19
was meant at Doom Eternal to sort of be
31:21
this capstone, right? You it it is that
31:24
final battle uh at the end. It is the
31:27
the battle after the rapture where uh
31:29
Michael and Lucifer finally come to
31:32
their final blows uh where war must be
31:34
ra waged and the devastation that
31:37
follows in the wake of it uh is very
31:41
much akin to what uh you know the
31:43
evangelicals were tell
31:44
>> it's a biblical apocalypse. It
31:46
absolutely is. And one of the real thing
31:48
interesting things about it is the way
31:50
it worked the father essentially appears
31:53
to be a maker. Like that when you see
31:55
the father, it's a maker, but that
31:57
doesn't mean that the father is a maker.
32:00
>> Like there's there's makers that worship
32:02
it and serve it, but the father may have
32:05
made Davoth or Dave off may have made
32:07
the father. This is never clearly
32:09
explained. Like there's a lot of like
32:12
biblical type allegory used, but nobody
32:16
everyone has a different idea about
32:18
what's going on here. There's there's no
32:20
truly reliable narrator. But when you do
32:22
finally go to fight Dave off, it turns
32:24
out you're the only one who could
32:25
because you are exactly that reflection.
32:28
You are to him, uh, like he just said,
32:31
link to Dark Link. Bring that in again,
32:33
except this time you're Dark Link. And
32:36
when you fight him, not just, you know,
32:39
like the the fight itself is ridiculous.
32:41
If you've ever played the game, the
32:42
fight is like, "Oh my god, get me
32:44
through this." Uh, but when you finally
32:46
do kill him, he says something like, "Do
32:47
you have anything to say to your
32:50
creator?" And the Doom guy gets to say
32:53
one of the few things he ever gets to
32:55
say, which is, "No."
32:57
>> And then stabs him.
32:58
>> Then stabs him. He stabs the devil.
33:01
Basically, that doesn't get rid of hell
33:03
or the demons, but it is it's like are
33:08
>> It does, but there there implication is
33:10
still there.
33:11
>> Yeah, but I mean that that Yeah. that
33:13
they still potentially can exist. But
33:15
part of the thing in that moment is that
33:17
>> on
33:18
>> all the ones
33:19
>> Yeah. all the ones outside of this of
33:21
hell are linked to him
33:22
>> and are so when you kill him they all
33:25
die.
33:26
>> Exactly. Yeah. I want that is very that
33:28
is a very necessary thing because again
33:31
>> uh that the game makes that very clear
33:33
distinction, right? like it makes it
33:34
makes a very clear distinction that
33:35
anything outside of the pocket dimension
33:38
that had been sealed off uh essentially
33:41
no longer has the power to sustain
33:43
itself because essentially Daveoth was
33:45
using himself as a battery to funnel uh
33:48
energy from hell to all the demons under
33:51
his control into the the essentially the
33:54
the reality uh that we live in. And
33:57
without that connection, they started to
33:59
dwindle and and and puff out of
34:01
existence essentially.
34:02
>> Yep. And we we we haven't talked about
34:05
Doom Eternal yet because Doom Eternal
34:08
basically even though it's a prequel
34:09
really exists just to give you
34:11
background on the other games. So it's a
34:14
prequel that actually tells you things
34:16
that you didn't know before. Um instead
34:17
of just being like this is confusing
34:19
although it certainly does have a lot of
34:21
this is but in Doom Eternal you get to
34:23
see what life was like on Argentinur
34:25
right around the time the Doomslayer got
34:27
there. And the first thing you see is
34:29
that there are these these this order of
34:31
knights um the Sentinel
34:34
>> uh knights.
34:35
>> Yeah. And they're trying really hard to
34:37
preserve the world and their king and
34:40
his daughter Thalia uh they're trying to
34:44
keep their world alive. And the demons
34:46
are invading and uh Prince Azarak um
34:48
he's just he's another demon. He's
34:51
looking for something on the planet of
34:52
Argent. And it ties back to those
34:55
ancient gods we just mentioned that DLC
34:58
and Doom Eternal. The ancient gods
35:00
originally landed on Argentinur in
35:02
meteors and essentially began offering
35:06
the knowledge and power that they had to
35:08
the people of Argentinur which is why
35:09
the people of Argentinur uh despite the
35:12
fact that they wander around in armor
35:13
and use battle axes also have spaceships
35:16
>> and guns.
35:16
>> Um
35:17
>> yeah and guns. Lots of guns. They love
35:19
guns.
35:20
>> And lightsabers. Let's not forget about
35:22
that. Oh, yeah. Lightsabers. Uh, shields
35:24
with rotating sawblade ends so you can
35:26
throw them at people. Uh, a the chain
35:29
shot. They have the chain shot where
35:31
they shoot like a bolo at you, but it's
35:33
it's all spiky. Lots of stuff. Um, as
35:36
the demons are invading in Doom Eternal,
35:39
we get to see the first appearance of
35:41
the Doomslayer as the Doomslayer, not
35:43
the Doom guy. This is the
35:44
chronologically first appearance, even
35:46
though it's the the most recent game.
35:48
>> Oh, you mean Dark Ages? You're saying
35:49
you're saying eternal. You mean Dark
35:50
Ages?
35:51
>> I'm sorry. I mean, Dark Ages, I'm sorry.
35:53
Um, in Dark Ages, basically what happens
35:54
is, uh, the king calls to the the con
35:58
maker, who is somebody that you you knew
36:01
in the previous game, the con maker and
36:03
the creed maker, uh, who, by the way,
36:05
you killed in Eternal. And you're going
36:06
to find out why, because here, the
36:09
makers have the Doomslayer as a slave.
36:12
They have some kind of device implanted
36:13
into his ar the armor he's wearing
36:15
>> in his chest. That's a big the circle
36:17
that you see on the chest plate that has
36:19
the the circle with the light in it.
36:21
>> They're using that as a way to control
36:22
him.
36:23
>> And they literally just drop him on the
36:25
planet surface. They actually fire him
36:27
at the the planet surface and some kind
36:29
of like guided teleportation beam and
36:31
just let him go and kill demons. That's
36:35
what he does. He's literally like a fire
36:36
and forget weapon for killing. Every so
36:39
often you see him fighting that like he
36:41
there's a couple seconds when they're
36:42
trying to launch him and he's like no
36:44
because they're trying to put some kind
36:45
of like specific code. He doesn't want
36:47
to go down kill some demons and then
36:49
come back up and be waiting for the next
36:51
time they choose to use him. He wants to
36:52
go down kill demons and not stop until
36:54
there aren't any demons. And it's
36:56
revealed that when he was first found on
36:58
Argentinor, the the native Argentinians,
37:01
for lack of a better word, the humans
37:02
that lived there first were like, "Okay,
37:05
we've got a a a tradition where all you
37:08
know, people like you who just show up
37:10
out of nowhere and criminals and so
37:11
forth that you basically have to fight
37:14
to prove that you're worth us keeping
37:16
you around. Like, why why do you get to
37:17
survive? Why do we give you food and
37:19
resources? We're being invaded by
37:20
demons. We we need you to show us why we
37:23
should care about you. And the Doom guy,
37:26
unarmed, barely alive, has been
37:29
wandering for who knows how long, kills
37:32
everybody in the room that they put him
37:34
in, and they're like, "Okay." And then
37:37
the whole deal with the the Samuel hate
37:39
as the hatemaker, he brings him up, puts
37:42
him in the god machine, and then puts
37:45
the implant in his chest to control him,
37:48
which is why he was so keen to control
37:50
him when you see him in Doom 2016 cuz he
37:53
knows exactly how powerful. It's Hate's
37:56
fault that he is that powerful. Hate is
37:58
the one who put him in the machine. So
38:01
you go through the Doom Eternal, you're
38:03
basically trying to work with the
38:04
makers, but they're, you know,
38:06
inherently treacherous because all they
38:07
want is control over the power source
38:11
that the demons bring forth when they
38:13
come to a world. Uh because demons
38:15
themselves are literally, as Joe pointed
38:17
out, they're manifested into that
38:20
reality by the power of Dave off.
38:22
Essentially, the argent energy that you
38:24
see people using is Dave off power.
38:26
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, anything that you see
38:27
like when you're playing the games or
38:29
like if you're watching any of the
38:31
animated things or anything like that,
38:32
you'll see that there's a consistent
38:34
theming with like this red almost like
38:36
lightning like energy. That is the
38:39
Argent energy. I've I mean, it's a
38:41
little on the nose with naming it Argent
38:42
being red, but it the theming of it is
38:46
that it is essentially that power that
38:48
that aggressive lightningesque power
38:51
that you know that is being fed into
38:54
these demons. and then also subsequently
38:56
being used to power their weapons or uh
39:01
power their attacks. Which is why in
39:03
previous Doom titles, you would see
39:05
there are things like cyber demons or
39:07
things where there were combinations of
39:09
demons with technology through the
39:11
experimentation of the UAC. And the
39:14
reason that they could do that and have
39:15
literally uh creatures that look like
39:18
the icon of sin uh smaller versions of
39:21
them running around with plasma cannons
39:23
on their arm and never needed to restock
39:26
or take like an ammo clip and pour it
39:29
into it is because essentially it was
39:31
converting the Argent power into their
39:34
weapons. It was converting it into what
39:36
they were using as ammo, which is I've
39:40
heard people call it a reccon. It's just
39:42
filling in a gap. And it makes so much
39:44
more sense when you start going back
39:46
through the rest of the games in that
39:47
context. Uh because
39:50
>> Doom never worried about the demons
39:52
getting recharged. They didn't they
39:54
didn't have to get ammo. They just
39:56
because it was a game where that didn't
39:57
matter. But the the story of the of the
40:00
modern series uses um and it's really
40:03
interesting because one of the things
40:05
that it effectively brings to light as
40:07
you're playing the game is you are
40:09
literally using hell against it. Mhm.
40:11
>> The Doom guy is literally using the
40:14
power of Dave off against Dave off. It
40:16
is the power he's been sending through.
40:18
That's why there's power ups. That's why
40:20
there's, you know, all the stuff he's
40:21
using is drawing from that.
40:23
>> It's also why your power-ups look like
40:25
runes um have sort of like that that
40:28
archaic quality to it that when you
40:30
start breaking it down, yes, yours are
40:32
orange in color, but if you look at
40:34
that, it's literally the in between
40:37
point of having yellow and red. the
40:40
makers with their yellow motif, their
40:42
golds, and all of Dave Vos minions with
40:45
the red. You are smack dab in the
40:47
middle. It's why all of your stuff is is
40:49
orange or orange adjacent. And it's a a
40:52
visual design that is born of the story,
40:58
which is very very interesting.
40:59
>> Yeah. So eventually
41:02
um during the events of Doom the Dark
41:04
Ages, one of the things that happens is
41:06
uh Prince Ashra is does not want to
41:08
fight you ever if he can avoid it. He
41:11
doesn't want to. He's on that planet
41:13
looking for something else. He'll fight
41:15
you. He'll he'll send minions to fight
41:17
you to keep you away from it. But it
41:20
turns out that there's an ancient weapon
41:22
supposedly provided by the ancient gods
41:24
that he's looking for on that world. and
41:27
he's being served by a one of the priest
41:30
a priestess witch who is really her
41:33
working on her own agenda throughout the
41:35
game and you're like I don't get why
41:36
she's working she turns out to be
41:39
working for the things that predated
41:42
Davoth see there are things in this
41:45
world older and scarier than the demon
41:48
that come from a reality that is
41:50
completely enimical to ours and those
41:53
beings want to come back but They can't.
41:57
Uh Davoth essentially massacred his way
42:00
through them uh and banished them to the
42:02
realms that they originally come from.
42:04
During your quest to defeat Prince
42:06
Azich, because he's trying to find uh
42:09
some weapon of the old gods of the of
42:12
the ancient gods, he eventually is
42:14
revealed that the the king's daughter,
42:15
Thalia, she's the one who has the power
42:18
of the ancient gods. She's she is the
42:20
weapon like he's been looking for. He
42:22
thinks there's a key or a device. There
42:24
isn't. It's her. In order to stop all
42:26
this from happening, the Doom guy
42:28
voluntarily dies. He's fighting. He's
42:31
sent to the the uh I I don't forget what
42:34
it's called, like the forgotten
42:34
dimension, the the other other space or
42:37
but he's sent there and he he's
42:39
confronted by a several hundred foot
42:41
tall tentacle-faced dragon-winged. It's
42:45
Cthulhu.
42:46
>> They don't say Cthulhu, but it's Cthulu.
42:48
It's exactly Cthulhu. And so in order to
42:51
get around this thing, he pulls the
42:54
device that's been, for lack of a better
42:56
word, the thing that's been restraining
42:57
him this whole time. He rips it out of
42:58
his chest and it explodes with the force
43:00
of a billion sons because it's
43:01
literally, you know, it's it's
43:04
harvesting and using all that that Dave
43:06
off power the whole time. Blows up,
43:09
annihilates him. He ends up in hell and
43:12
then he's angry enough while he's in
43:14
hell to actually I think it's purgatory
43:17
according to the list
43:18
>> it is you know it is purgatory it is not
43:20
hell because it is it is the space in
43:22
between where he gets banished
43:23
>> and so he ends up there and he just gets
43:26
up out of sheer cussedness and walks his
43:30
way to a boat and gets on the boat after
43:33
killing everything on the boat and
43:35
drives the boat forward and smashes into
43:39
the the very barriers preventing someone
43:42
from getting out of purgatory, which
43:44
allows a demonic right that Thalia
43:46
forces uh one of the priests to cast to
43:50
allow him to be resurrected. Like they
43:52
literally put his body back together and
43:54
a demon worshipper pulled it out of
43:57
purgatory and stuck it back stuck his
43:58
soul back in his own body because thanks
44:01
to the god machine, he's immortal, too.
44:03
He can't actually die. Not as long as
44:05
Daveoth ex. And that's why at the end of
44:08
Doom Eternal, it looks an awful lot like
44:10
the Doomslayer dies when he kills Davoth
44:13
>> except
44:14
>> except uh we will find out that's not
44:17
the case. He doesn't die. He just goes
44:19
down because he was so used with Davos
44:23
power. But go ahead.
44:24
>> Yeah, this is this is one of those
44:25
interesting moments where the the time
44:27
between Doom Eternal and then the time
44:30
uh to the dark ages is the sarcophagus.
44:34
again it is always the sarcophagus
44:38
um because essentially if I remember
44:40
correctly at the end of it like sealed
44:43
away they like whether it's to preserve
44:46
him uh or save him or because they fear
44:49
him uh they essentially put him on ice.
44:54
>> Yeah, we don't actually get to see that
44:55
yet. That's not actually and we probably
44:57
won't because I don't think we're going
44:58
to get another DLC for for Doom the Dark
45:01
Ages. But it's very broadly hinted that
45:04
when the Doom guy comes out and and keep
45:07
in mind when they when they raise him in
45:09
Doom Eternal, I mean in Doom the Dark
45:11
Ages,
45:12
>> they use that sarcophagus again.
45:13
>> Yes.
45:14
>> That's what he comes out of.
45:15
>> Yes.
45:16
>> Uh he's effectively linked to that
45:18
thing.
45:18
>> Mhm.
45:19
>> And it's very broadly hinted that the
45:20
sarcophagus is made from the god engine.
45:22
Uh it's tied into the power of the
45:24
father who made Davoth. And there's a
45:26
whole bunch of stuff involved in this,
45:27
but to get it to try and break it down
45:30
to the most, you know, you you
45:31
eventually you find out you get to
45:34
Thalia, uh, Prince Azarak kidnaps her
45:36
and manages to steal her power. He
45:38
thinks that with it, he can beat you. He
45:41
is wrong. Uh, it's a horrible death for
45:44
him. Um, but in the process, Thalia gets
45:47
her power back and she's like your
45:49
strongest ally, which implies bad things
45:52
are coming because throughout the uh
45:57
Revelations DLC, there's a a man named
45:59
Merrick, who's the son of the greatest
46:02
uh general that they had. And Marrick is
46:05
constantly presented as their best
46:07
Sentinel. And it's very clear that the
46:09
original con maker is complete control
46:11
of his mind and is using him as a weapon
46:14
against you. And as a part of this whole
46:17
thing, it turns out that in between the,
46:20
you know, the events of Doom of the Dark
46:22
Ages and the events of the the uh
46:24
Revelations DLC, the con maker has the
46:29
the king murdered by Marik and frames
46:33
you for it. So all the Sentinel Knights
46:35
think you murdered the king and you end
46:37
up getting crushed and going to
46:39
purgatory again. This time physically.
46:41
You're not dead. You're just sent to
46:42
purgatory. You get up after getting
46:44
absolutely crushed by this demonic war
46:46
engine that is like, you know, this
46:48
enormous icon of sin level threat. You
46:51
get crushed. The armor you've been
46:52
wearing throughout Doom Eternal Doom the
46:54
Dark Ages is essentially destroyed and
46:57
you need a new suit. So, you and a demon
47:00
who's kind of called the artificer, and
47:03
he's hinted to be the same demon that
47:05
you saw all the way back in the original
47:08
Doom making weapons and stuff.
47:10
>> Mhm.
47:11
>> But this is his actual form cuz he's
47:13
stuck in purgatory. He helps you and
47:15
together you guys create the armor you
47:17
see in Doom and Doom Eternal. The armor
47:20
you're wearing in those games is the
47:21
Ptor suit that's made here. The armor
47:24
you've been wearing in Doom the Dark
47:26
Ages is very similar to the Ptor suit,
47:28
but it isn't the Ptor suit. For one
47:30
thing, the Ptor suit doesn't have a big
47:31
mind control box goes here on the on the
47:35
front. Um, and it's the Ptor suit is
47:37
made from as many demonic and hellbor
47:41
things as it as it is made from the
47:43
armor he was wearing. You go back up,
47:46
you essentially drive the makers away
47:47
from Argent Denur, like they leave cuz
47:49
they do not want to fight you. And
47:52
that's where you find out you you hand
47:55
to like the weapon that has the memory
47:57
of when Marrick killed her father. So
48:00
now she knows that Marrick killed her
48:02
father. All of this comes out. Marrick
48:04
is defeated. Um he the the makers take
48:06
him with them which is why he the
48:08
marauder that shows up in Eternal. It's
48:10
Marrick. Uh Marrick eventually becomes
48:12
the icon of sin too which is one of
48:13
those things where later I Marrick's all
48:16
the way over time. Like he's he's
48:18
jumping it back and forth. While that's
48:19
all going on, his father becomes the
48:22
betrayer because he's like, "We can't
48:24
win. You my son was the best of us and
48:26
he's broken and the Doomslayer is he
48:28
doesn't care. He's not going to help us.
48:31
He's just going to kill demons. We can't
48:32
win. We have to make some kind of peace
48:34
with them." And that's where he comes to
48:36
his conclusion. We don't know what
48:37
happened after that, but we know that
48:39
whatever happened happened ended up with
48:41
Thalia not being a concern anymore and
48:43
the Doomslayer put back in the
48:45
sarcophagus and locked away. And that's
48:48
from there. They locked him on
48:50
Argentinur. When the UAC started the
48:53
experiments up again, hate manipulated
48:56
them to grab the sarcophagus and bring
48:59
it to Mars so that the Doomslayer could
49:01
be awakened and used as a tool again.
49:03
And then realize halfway through, oh,
49:05
I've awakened a tool that I can't
49:06
control. Oops. But that's the whole
49:09
deal. The cyclical nature of all this is
49:11
the first two Doom games, Doom and Doom
49:13
2, go straight into Doom Eternal. No,
49:16
sorry, Doom the Dark Ages. And from Doom
49:18
the Dark Ages, your character goes
49:20
through the Revelations DLC. There's an
49:22
untold event after that and you end up
49:25
on the sarcophagus, which ends up coming
49:27
through the portals. When they're
49:29
opening portals to try and pull the
49:31
energy out of Arur, they bring that sar
49:33
sarcophagus to Mars, which is then you
49:37
awaken and the events of Doom and Doom
49:40
Eternal. So,
49:41
>> also we should throw in there that the
49:43
with the Doom 64 remaster that was
49:46
released not too long ago, they also
49:48
added stuff that tied it directly into
49:50
that timeline as well. Uh where it had
49:53
existed prior to that uh where the I
49:56
believe they call it now the Slayer
49:58
timeline uh which is uh what happens
50:01
with uh starting with Doom 2016, Doom
50:05
VR, which we didn't talk about but is
50:07
also in between 2016 and Doom Eternal.
50:10
uh then the Dark Ages and then Doom 64
50:13
uh the remaster which then bleeds into
50:16
Doom 1 and two.
50:18
>> So like they they've done a good job of
50:23
essentially not throwing out everything
50:27
uh and really kind of tying it together
50:29
>> to the point where in in Doom Dark Ages
50:32
Revelations you see the life of the
50:34
Doomslayer before he went to Mars. Mhm.
50:38
>> You see the mission where he was given
50:41
illegal orders and despite his best
50:44
attempts, people were killed like
50:46
civilians. It was not a he was sent to
50:48
what he was told was an insurgent
50:50
target. It was a hospital full of
50:51
civilians. He attempted to stop it and
50:54
they launched the weapons anyway and
50:56
blew the place to smitherines, including
50:58
a small child carrying a rabbit toy. and
51:01
he saw that and it's it's hinted that
51:03
his PTSD after seeing that is the reason
51:06
he had a pet rat because he just
51:08
couldn't get over it. He couldn't get
51:09
over what he saw. He accepted like he
51:12
could have left the military when they
51:13
were sending him to Mars to essentially
51:15
die as possibly an experimental subject.
51:18
He could have just said, "Nope, I'm
51:19
out." Like it was hinted that they'd try
51:21
to kill him if he did that, but he could
51:24
have done that. He didn't. He
51:25
deliberately accepted the mission
51:26
because he didn't care anymore. like he
51:28
literally is so traumatized that the
51:30
idea of going to Mars for secret
51:32
experiments he doesn't even know what
51:33
they are. That's fine. I don't care. And
51:35
that's how he got there. And that's the
51:37
reason when it started, you know,
51:38
reigning demons everywhere, he wasn't he
51:41
didn't stop. Like he didn't get broken
51:43
at any point by the demons because he
51:45
already broke. That's the whole deal.
51:47
The literally limitless rage that he
51:49
feels. Sure, it's enhanced by the God
51:51
machine. Sure, it's, you know,
51:53
supernaturally fueled. But that's after
51:57
he started off just plain mad and that's
51:59
what got him through the entirety of it.
52:02
And that's to me like one of the things
52:04
that's really kind of scary about this
52:05
whole thing if you really look at it is
52:06
that Lucifer created this whole scenario
52:10
and out of it walked one human who just
52:13
wouldn't stop until until the until
52:16
Satan is dead. Like and he did it. He
52:19
successfully completed the mission. He
52:21
had to go back and forward through time,
52:23
jump through multiple, you know,
52:25
realities, get himself back to Earth
52:28
twice, but he did it. And that's one of
52:30
the things about it that I I really
52:32
love. Plus, we now know his name. Uh,
52:35
which is weird. Uh, honestly, I'd never
52:37
think of him as his name. I I still
52:39
think of him as Doom Guy or the
52:40
Doomslayer. Uh, but it's like Flynn,
52:43
isn't it?
52:43
>> Uh,
52:45
yeah. I don't remember. [laughter] I'm
52:48
not going to I'm not going to I'm not
52:50
going to lie. Uh I think it's Flynn
52:52
Tagert, which was from the 1990s
52:56
uh novels originally.
52:58
>> Yes, it is Flynn Tagert.
53:00
>> Yeah. And then I think they cuz he had
53:01
another name at some point, too. Uh
53:03
which is why they say Doom 3 is its own
53:06
alternate timeline. Uh because in Doom
53:08
3, the Doomslayer is John Kaine. Um and
53:12
then
53:12
>> and that's not that's not the guy.
53:14
>> It's not. And then we've already talked
53:16
about the uh BJ Blasowitz uh the third
53:21
or Stan Blasowitz
53:24
uh which is what he's referred to in I
53:26
believe the Doom 2 RPG mobile game uh
53:28
you know where they had the the idea
53:30
that he was the continuation of uh the
53:33
Blaswitz uh family line uh because both
53:36
games were made by it.
53:38
>> Yeah. And even as of the most recent
53:40
lore stuff, Flynn Tagert is considered
53:43
to be like a several generations
53:45
descendant of um Billy Blasowitz, who
53:49
was Commander King. Uh Commander Keen
53:51
being the one of the games that came out
53:53
after the original uh Wolfenstein, which
53:55
is where BJ Blasowitz is originally
53:56
from. So he's considered to be in that
53:59
line. Uh because back in like '95 and
54:02
they did an interview um basically they
54:04
were told they mentioned that they were
54:06
originally going to have him be the
54:07
grandson of Commander Keane.
54:09
>> Yep.
54:09
>> But it's it would take too long at this
54:11
point. Too much time would have passed.
54:13
So he's just an un unknown amount of
54:17
descendants away. But he's in that line
54:19
which they did because they wanted. But
54:20
>> I I do feel like there's one last thing
54:22
I do want to cover real quick and it's
54:24
not necessarily about the mainline
54:25
games. Uh, but I do want to come back to
54:27
this because it's a fun little bit of
54:29
internet uh lore revolving around it.
54:33
Uh,
54:33
>> please tell me we're doing Isabelle.
54:35
>> Are we doing Isabelle or are we doing
54:36
the Link Theory?
54:37
>> We could do both. Uh, so the the link
54:40
theory is the one that like took the
54:42
internet by storm when Doom 2016
54:45
released. Uh, and it was one of those
54:47
real fun things that sort of just
54:50
weirdly made sense to a lot of people.
54:53
Uh, and that Link uh was actually the
54:56
longlost for like old version of Doomgy
54:59
and that's who Doomgy actually was. Uh,
55:02
and it was based off of the idea of uh
55:04
both of them being essentially the same
55:06
type of protagonist. Uh, both are
55:09
largely silent or stoic, uh, letting
55:11
their actions or expressions speak for
55:13
them. Uh, they both are incredibly hardy
55:16
and they're also in the original games
55:19
for Doom. And also, people may not
55:21
notice this. So, about Link, uh, they're
55:23
left-handed. Uh, at least in all of the
55:26
the games, um, although I believe the
55:30
newer games have transition to a right
55:32
hand for the Doom guy. Uh, they both
55:34
have signature green armor, uh, with a
55:37
propensity for it versus some of the
55:39
other UAC armor. Uh, and then they both
55:42
tend to reawaken from sarcophagi, uh, on
55:46
a routinely regular basis. Uh, and so
55:49
until Dark Ages came out, people were
55:51
were claiming that uh that the Link uh
55:55
was secretly the ancient version of the
55:57
Doomed guy who just keeps getting shoved
55:59
into a sarcophagus and woken up when you
56:02
know break sarcophagus in case of
56:04
demonic incursion. Uh, so the whole deal
56:07
with the Boblins and the fact that Link
56:09
is attent, you know, how many different
56:11
heroes of, you know, Hyrule have there
56:13
been who are all called Link and they're
56:15
obviously, you know, one of them's a kid
56:18
when you first meet him and this is
56:19
hundreds of years after the first game.
56:21
>> How is he a child? Like, you know, if
56:24
he's reincarnating, then he could have
56:26
reincarnated as, you know, the
56:27
descendant of BJ Blasowitz. Maybe BJ
56:30
Blasowitz was a descendant was a
56:32
reincarnation
56:32
>> because again BJ Blasowitz is a blonde
56:35
protagonist. We should also put that out
56:38
there. Uh that started this whole thing.
56:40
Uh and if you go play can play any of
56:43
the Newcastle Wolfenstein, you get to
56:44
see him. Uh and that also fueled this as
56:47
well, continued to fuel this because
56:50
again going back to the idea that BJ
56:52
Blasowitz uh descendant was the Doom
56:55
guy. Uh which was just a little fun
56:57
little thing. Uh, and it tells you a
56:59
little bit about how how ingrained into
57:03
uh our
57:05
our culture essentially at this point
57:07
Doom really is uh that people are are
57:10
are like it's a crackpot theory
57:12
obviously it's a tinfoil hat. Um, but
57:15
it's fun. And do you want to talk about
57:16
the Isabella thing? Yeah, I I do because
57:19
I actually gonna segue from his one of
57:21
the things that really freaked people
57:23
out was in Doom Eternal Doom the Doom
57:25
guy Doom Slayer gets a a chain shot.
57:27
Like he actually gets this the the
57:29
signature I can fire a grappling hook
57:31
hook shot from my shotgun and pull
57:33
myself up the way the way Link has been
57:36
able to do multiple people were like
57:37
freaking out about that. Then they
57:39
noticed something. Both Doom Eternal and
57:42
Animal Crossing: New Horizons were
57:44
coming out around the same time in in
57:45
2020. And people are like, you know,
57:48
which one, you know, these are they
57:49
going to fight? Who's going to win? And
57:50
everyone's like, why would they fight?
57:52
No, Isabelle's great. She's friendly and
57:54
fun. If you don't know who Isabelle is,
57:55
go look up Animal Crossing lore. We have
57:58
We're not doing Animal Crossing lore in
57:59
this particular episode, but if you ask
58:01
enough, we'll do it. We don't care.
58:03
We're crazy. Um, but regardless,
58:06
Isabelle is is capable of dealing with
58:08
Tom Nook and all his foibless. Uh, she
58:11
seems like the perfect person to try and
58:13
keep the the Doomslayer in line. And the
58:15
Doomslayer is extremely protective of
58:19
small fuzzy things. Um, you'll also
58:22
notice one of the things throughout the
58:23
the uh modern Doom series from 2016 to
58:26
to now is that when he gets his hands on
58:30
any of the collectible toys of himself
58:34
that you can find in these games, he
58:37
plays with it.
58:38
>> Yep.
58:39
>> He doesn't just throw it in a bag or
58:40
anything. He picks it up and makes it go
58:42
around. And when he got his dragon in in
58:45
Doom uh the dark ages, the the dragon
58:48
toy, he makes the dragon toy fly around
58:49
and oh man, I think Azarak's biggest
58:52
mistake was killing that dragon, quite
58:54
>> frankly. Yeah,
58:55
>> he should not have done that. No,
58:56
>> but just like, you know, so Isabelle and
58:59
the Doom guy then became memew worthy.
59:01
And there's just so many memes of the
59:03
two of them hanging out, like him
59:05
tossing her up in the air, pulling out a
59:07
weapon, then she lands on his shoulder
59:09
and pulls out another one of his
59:10
weapons, and they start killing
59:11
everything around them. And sometimes
59:14
they're killing everything around them
59:15
while they're also just spinning and
59:16
like one of those romantic I'm holding
59:18
your hand and we're spinning. And also
59:19
each of us is firing a very large
59:21
weapon. Uh I loved the Isabelle
59:25
Doomslayer stuff from the beginning. I
59:26
think it's one of the greatest fan
59:28
created things. It's it's it's even more
59:31
wholesome than the link one. The link
59:33
one is is kind of just this is feasible.
59:36
You know, everything lines up. You could
59:37
you could do this if you wanted to. If
59:40
if both Nintendo and ID Software had the
59:43
the power, the the wherewithal, this
59:46
could be canon. It's not. It never will
59:48
be, but it could be. You could argue
59:50
that the Doomslayer is is this ancient
59:53
figure who once was reincarnated as a
59:56
small blonde elf boy and then eventually
59:58
became reincarnated as a somewhat larger
1:00:01
non-selff man, but still pretty much
1:00:04
pretty similar. Pretty similar. So yeah,
1:00:07
this has been a scraping of the surface
1:00:09
of the craziness that's Doom. Like I
1:00:12
didn't really even get into why Prince
1:00:13
Azer thought his plan would work. Uh, I
1:00:16
didn't get into how Dave off is involved
1:00:19
in all of this. Like where where there's
1:00:23
just so much to like how nuts all this
1:00:25
is. The the fact that there's an ex
1:00:27
there's a dimension called purgatory
1:00:29
which is essentially a it's like a
1:00:32
prison for prison. It's it's like where
1:00:35
you go if you can't even get into hell
1:00:36
anymore. Like there's just there's so
1:00:38
much to it. And it's like it's
1:00:40
surprising how people think I remember
1:00:44
someone was like it's so weird that the
1:00:46
purgatory rain is is cold. It's like you
1:00:48
don't think of cold and you think of
1:00:50
like you know hell. And I'm like please
1:00:52
go read the Divine Comedy. Please, I'm
1:00:54
begging you, go read the Divine Comedy
1:00:57
because there it is actually taking a
1:01:00
whole lot from real uh Christian and
1:01:04
Christian-based literature and and
1:01:08
religion in these in these games. It's
1:01:11
just giving it a twist. And it's really
1:01:14
fascinating to watch how like Joe said,
1:01:16
he's literally Satan. He's not kidding.
1:01:18
Dave Ooth is the figure who was
1:01:20
worshiped by cultists as the devil. He
1:01:23
that is who Dave off is this isn't like
1:01:25
some oh he's from another dimension he
1:01:27
just calls himself the devil no he is
1:01:29
the guy that's him right there and yet
1:01:32
you are in fact in the words of Terry
1:01:34
Patchet nobody had thought to try using
1:01:37
a shotgun on the on on the demonic
1:01:39
hordes before and that's right Terry
1:01:41
Patchet said it Terry Patchet said that
1:01:43
Doom was an innovative take he wasn't
1:01:44
kidding you know this is the first time
1:01:46
someone's like what if I used a shotgun
1:01:48
on the devil would that work that's Doom
1:01:51
ultimately I think we're going to end it
1:01:53
there because we could probably just
1:01:55
keep going uh over and over and over.
1:01:58
>> Just the the lore for the weapons.
1:02:00
There's certain weapons that you get
1:02:02
described and it's just crazy. It's
1:02:04
crazy that anyone thought that this
1:02:05
should be in a game and it is and it
1:02:06
works.
1:02:07
>> Well, with that said, friends, we're
1:02:09
going to call it there and I do want to
1:02:10
thank you for joining us on this
1:02:12
adventure. Uh again, Blizzard is made
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possible due to the generous
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contributions at
1:02:16
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1:02:18
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1:02:20
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1:02:22
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1:02:28
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1:02:29
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1:02:32
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1:02:35
all means, go ahead and uh contact us
1:02:38
through podcastardwatch.com.
1:02:41
We ask that you specify the show that it
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Uh if you want to hit us up on Discord,
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1:03:21
And with that, friends, we'll see you
1:03:23
next week.
1:03:31
>> [music]
#Games