Up next in 10
In World of Warcraft, we've come across several shattered worlds, in varying degrees of obliteration. From Outland to K'aresh, these worlds have been corrupted with various forces, were shredded into near-oblivion, and some looked as though they may have some kind of shot at redemption against all odds.
But what about their world souls? How does each world soul relate to the creation of these worlds by the Titans? And how worried should we therefore be about the fate that may await Azeroth? This one gets pretty deep into the weeds of tinfoil hat theorizing, pulling elements from several different expansions for reference.
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0:04
[music]
0:10
Hello and welcome to Lore Watch, a round
0:12
table free form discussion about lore in
0:14
your favorite media. I'm your host, Joe
0:16
Perez, one of several lore focused folks
0:18
from Blizzard Watch, and I've got my two
0:20
stalwart companions with me today. Uh,
0:23
first up, he really really likes Kaiju
0:25
and recently just discovered that
0:26
there's a uh handbook coming out uh
0:29
revolving around Godzilla versus the
0:31
Marvel universe. It's Matt Rossy. How
0:32
you doing, Matt?
0:34
>> I mean, I had the comics when they put
0:35
them out in the 70s. I I've loved
0:37
Godzilla beating up Marvel heroes
0:39
forever, so this is a great thing. Plus,
0:41
there's also IDW is putting out another
0:44
Godzilla role playing game.
0:45
>> Yes,
0:46
>> there's gonna be two. Oh my god. I'm I'm
0:49
I am vibrating right now. I'm like I'm
0:53
gonna burn through time. The fact that
0:55
they're also talking about a Godzilla
0:57
multiverse like Tohjo wants to do a
0:59
Godzilla multiverse and maybe even
1:02
include the Monsterverse and just like
1:03
have every Godzilla team up. I'm like,
1:05
"Oh god."
1:07
Yeah, it's it's a good time to lay
1:09
Godzilla. Gameamra, you're also cool,
1:11
but they don't make movies about you
1:12
anymore. What's up with that? Make a guy
1:14
make a Gameamra a movie. That guy was a
1:16
very cool turtle.
1:18
>> And also joining us as always on this
1:20
wonderful journey is a true man of
1:22
science himself, Eric OD. How you doing,
1:24
Eric?
1:25
>> I'm good. I um I don't share Matt's
1:28
extreme enthusiasm towards the Godzilla
1:30
universe, but I do think that I'd be
1:32
like the extra in the background who has
1:34
the camcorder out and is like fascinated
1:36
and like refuses to run away because I'm
1:39
just I I want to see Godzilla closer.
1:42
>> See, I don't know. I think you'd be like
1:43
the the astrophysicist that like is inex
1:46
inexplicably in the movie in the
1:48
research facility explaining why like
1:51
Godzilla is like you know good for earth
1:53
or something like that. Like I could see
1:55
you filling that role.
1:56
>> You're making him play Sarah
1:59
>> more or less.
2:00
>> Fight.
2:01
>> Let them fight. Eric, why are you doing
2:02
that voice?
2:04
>> But we're not here to talk about
2:06
Godzilla. Not today. Uh although if you
2:08
have questions about Godzilla, send them
2:10
in. I mean Matt loves him. I love him. I
2:11
mean, we'll we'll make Eric love them.
2:14
Uh, it'll be fine. Uh, but instead,
2:17
we're going to be answering some
2:18
questions from you, our wonderful
2:19
listeners. And again, I would like to
2:20
remind you that if you have questions
2:22
for this or any of our podcast, that you
2:24
can go ahead and send those in. We have
2:27
the podcast uh at blizzardwatch.com,
2:30
which is the email address you can send
2:32
them to. Uh, you can make sure that you
2:34
have the subject in the subject line,
2:36
the show that it is for, and any special
2:38
pronunciation of your name. And then if
2:40
you want to hit us up on Discord, we
2:41
have two channels set aside. We have the
2:42
Q and Podcast question channel open for
2:44
everybody.
2:45
And if you uh have yourself a wonderful
2:48
Patreon subscription to our wonderful
2:50
content, we have the Patreon Q and
2:52
podcast question channel set aside
2:53
specifically for you. And we always look
2:55
there first as an extra way of saying
2:57
thank you for helping us keep the lights
2:59
on. Without further ado, let's get into
3:02
this. Uh,
3:04
hearing the discussion around Hemtt
3:05
Nessingways, uh, I got a couple of left
3:08
turn questions. First, on Caresh, it's
3:12
the third broken world we've been to in
3:14
our adventuring careers, despite being a
3:17
barren wasteland, and its bigger chunks
3:19
seem surprisable.
3:22
The reintroduction of its world soul
3:24
seems to point to a hopeful outcome.
3:26
With all this info, what could the
3:28
future for these shattered worlds, Kesh,
3:31
Argus, Drraanor, and assuming Azeroth
3:34
cracks like an egg instead of something
3:36
less traumatic,
3:38
how worried should we should Azerothians
3:40
be? And second, why are Naga even
3:43
working with Illan? I seem to remember
3:45
him casting some sort of spell to bring
3:47
them back up in Warcraft 3, but I'm not
3:50
sure we ever answer the question of why
3:51
they're following him. And those
3:53
questions come from RC. Let's start with
3:55
Caresh uh and and the broken worlds that
3:59
we have uh inadvertently visited. And I
4:02
think we've gone to more than just those
4:05
three. I just don't think they've been
4:07
called out in the story yet cuz we've
4:09
gone traveling to a couple different
4:10
places uh over the course of Shadowlands
4:13
with the brokers and nothing says those
4:14
worlds were in one piece. So, just kind
4:17
of throwing that out there as food for
4:18
thought. But Matt, do you have anything
4:21
uh about
4:22
well Broken Worlds or or anything that
4:24
you you think might be the future of
4:27
them? And we could start with Caresh
4:28
because it's probably the most recent
4:29
one.
4:30
>> Yeah, I mean Caresh is one of the ones
4:31
that's gotten the most broken. And I
4:35
mean I know
4:36
>> even compared to Drayor, would you
4:37
really would you really consider it more
4:39
broken than Draanor?
4:40
>> Yeah. I mean, well, let's put this way.
4:43
I know what all of Kesh looks like,
4:47
whereas I've only been to one part of
4:50
Draanor. Like Outland is is just one
4:54
continent.
4:55
I don't know if that means the rest of
4:57
it is like flenders in space, in which
5:00
case, you know, you win uh Outland, but
5:03
it just it's just as possible that
5:06
there's the rest of the planet floating
5:08
there with just the spot the orcs were
5:10
living on floating in the in the fell
5:12
void, so to speak, the twisting nether.
5:15
Um because that, you know, we know that
5:19
Outland is in the Twisting Nether. It's
5:21
it's equ it's it's literally falling
5:24
into the thing continuously.
5:26
That doesn't mean the rest of of Dranra
5:29
went to to the twisting nether. There's
5:31
a whole other continent down to the
5:33
south. We don't know what happened to
5:35
it.
5:37
You know, there's there's a whole world
5:40
that that that continent was on and we
5:42
know nothing about what happened to it.
5:45
Did it break up into other pieces?
5:46
Maybe. Did it not? and just, you know,
5:50
just the part that we now call Outland
5:52
came yanking off.
5:54
Maybe it's it's it's unknown. Whereas
5:57
we've seen enough of Caresh,
6:00
quote unquote, from space, although it
6:02
wasn't actually from space, but we've
6:03
seen enough of Caresh to know generally
6:06
speaking, the whole place is smashed up.
6:08
>> And also to be fair, like you can
6:10
literally go as you're standing on those
6:11
chunks and move your camera around and
6:13
see the rest of the planet.
6:15
>> Yeah. where you don't you can't do that
6:17
on on Outland. Like you can you can go
6:20
to Faralon. That's basically the only
6:22
place you can go to that wasn't
6:24
technically a part of the continent. Uh
6:26
cuz it was a bunch of islands, but you
6:28
you have no idea about the rest of that
6:31
place. The place the ogres were from in
6:33
the south, no contact with it. Um we
6:36
know that the ogres came north and and
6:39
tried to colonize uh what we were then
6:42
calling Dranor. We we have no idea of
6:45
what's what happened down there. Did
6:47
they survive? Were did the you know
6:49
ripping of a continent off destroy
6:51
everything else?
6:53
No idea. It is it is up in the air. But
6:58
Kesh
6:59
seems to have maintained for lack of a
7:01
better word spiritual cohesion. Even
7:04
with the world soul practically dead.
7:08
um it seemed to hold itself all those
7:10
floating pieces almost seem to have
7:12
affinity with each other. They stay in
7:14
an they stay in a grouping which is not
7:17
that outlandish if you know about what
7:20
happens sometimes when
7:23
>> planetary objects get shattered. Yeah,
7:26
it was a good joke. Thank you. I didn't
7:27
mean to do it. Um
7:29
>> outlandish. Not not a capital O. You
7:31
know, but if you like looking back at
7:34
like the current theory for how the moon
7:35
got formed, uh, a Mars-sized object
7:38
slammed into the Earth and rather than
7:42
break the whole thing apart, chunks of
7:44
it went up into space at superheated,
7:47
you know, as like superheated plasma,
7:49
which then formed into after a small
7:51
time is like a cloud of guck formed into
7:55
the moon while the rest of it, which is
7:57
more mass than it had initially, jumped
7:59
into Earth. And they even think they've
8:01
found pieces of it in the mantle. Like
8:05
there's objects that have different uh
8:08
magnetic and you know magnetic effect
8:11
which they think might be the the
8:13
different density of other worldly
8:15
material inside the earth's mantle and
8:17
crust in core. Uh so now keep in mind
8:21
that's not that's a theory. It's a
8:23
strong theory. It's got a lot of
8:24
evidence, but it's not, you know, it's
8:26
not like the theory of evolution where
8:27
you practically can't at this point. If
8:29
you say anything about it, you're just
8:31
lying. We we there's still other
8:32
possibilities, but regardless, it takes
8:35
a lot to separate something planet sized
8:38
once it's formed into a planet. Uh the
8:41
gravity of everything there will want to
8:43
hold everything together.
8:46
I don't, you know, I think it's kind of
8:48
interesting to see that cares because
8:50
Caresh wasn't pulled into another
8:52
existence. like the way that um Drraanor
8:58
was. I I believe the Kesh is just in the
9:00
Nether, right?
9:02
It's just fully in there.
9:03
>> Well, the problem is, and I think and
9:06
and not to like derail you completely,
9:08
the problem is is that the twisting
9:10
nether went from being this ominous
9:14
space of like, you know, another
9:16
dimension to essentially being just the
9:18
space between planets. Um,
9:21
>> I'm still not sure about that because
9:22
the Great Dark Beyond has never been
9:23
recconed out of existence and they
9:25
didn't used to refer to them as the same
9:26
thing.
9:27
>> Correct. And and so there's there's it's
9:29
up in the air. Um, but they've never
9:32
specified if Caresh is, you know, in
9:36
the, you know, falling to the void
9:38
because there, but I would suspect that
9:40
because of the story of Caresh, there's
9:42
probably an element of it there because
9:45
you had, uh, Dementius summoned there,
9:49
uh, who to devour the planet and they
9:51
were opening essentially a gateway to
9:53
allow Dementius through. And at some
9:56
point, and we've seen this happen in the
9:57
past with like Cipher of Damnation and a
9:59
bunch of other stuff, sure, you're
10:01
bringing something
10:03
uh you know through, but sometimes
10:06
you're meeting it part way and so it's
10:08
unclear if that happened to Caresh or
10:10
not in part of its consumption and if as
10:12
a result of that it's put it into the
10:14
Twisting Nether.
10:15
>> Yeah. But regardless, I mean, I think we
10:17
can say pretty safely that the place
10:21
done got messed up. And
10:23
>> I want to know if there's other chunks
10:26
of karesh floating around or if the one
10:29
that we go to that has Tazesh on it is
10:32
just like what's left because
10:34
>> I mean we can see it. Joe Joe pointed
10:36
out you can see chunks of it floating
10:38
around.
10:38
>> But is it obliterated and just rocks or
10:41
are other places on it? You know they do
10:44
they still have the life? Do they still
10:45
have the sands? Do they still have you
10:47
know walk you can walk around because
10:49
you know gravity isn't the only force.
10:51
There's magic. So, gravity would have
10:53
done other things, but magic makes it so
10:55
that you can walk around on those
10:57
shattered chunks. Are there other one
10:59
are there like thousands of other ones
11:00
like that, or are the what you see in
11:02
the skybox there? Is that just kind of
11:03
like the world got toasted and shattered
11:06
and these are the chunks that are
11:07
stable? The interesting thing is like
11:10
there's there's the story kind of lends
11:12
itself to an another interesting
11:15
proposition too. Like your point about
11:17
these chunks being inhabited and and
11:19
again to to RC's point as well is not
11:23
abnormal. We've we've been to broken
11:25
worlds in which we can walk on them.
11:27
We've we've been to Argus uh and the the
11:29
the chunk that was ripped out of it uh
11:32
where the seat of the tri uh the
11:34
triumvirant was. Um,
11:37
we've been to Drraanor and all over
11:38
Dranra as a matter of fact. Uh, and we
11:41
know that Dranor to a level sustains
11:43
life. While that that is dwindling, it
11:46
still sustains it to again to a point.
11:49
Um, but Caresh introduced a new variable
11:52
to it in that story, which is it almost
11:56
feels like the world soul of Caresh
11:59
itself is also fragmented and might be
12:03
latching on to these places because when
12:07
you're doing the questing, you're doing
12:09
the stuff with Venari and you're doing
12:10
the stuff uh when before you assault the
12:13
manif
12:15
uh and you're dealing with the waste
12:17
walkers or I forgot what the cult was
12:20
called before they uh forgot their their
12:22
vows to remember one specific vow and
12:24
then go serve the dementius. Um but even
12:28
they're taken aback by hearing the fact
12:30
that the voice is there and that it it's
12:33
faint but it's there and they even
12:35
comment that it's almost like a fragment
12:37
of the soul. Um so there could be more
12:41
chunks of it out there and you may be
12:43
able to sustain all of that stuff. Uh,
12:45
and it may just be a a part and parcel
12:48
with yes, when Dementius came here and
12:51
the planet blew up, it also blew up
12:53
portions of the world soul with it. So,
12:55
it's fragmented as well and that's what
12:57
allows it to sustain life. We've never
12:58
gotten a clear answer on that, I don't
13:00
think.
13:02
>> I don't think they even really talked
13:03
about it very much. There was the
13:05
throwaway about it, you know, the world
13:06
soul possibly still being out there.
13:08
That was basically it.
13:09
>> Well, it wasn't even possibly. It was It
13:11
was confirmed like they heard it saying.
13:13
>> No. Yeah, but that doesn't necessarily
13:16
mean much when they haven't given you
13:18
anything further on it. Uh they heard it
13:21
sing. Okay. It was it did it like song
13:24
it's doing while it's dying.
13:25
>> Yeah. But that's but that's but that's
13:26
also part of the thing with Venari at
13:28
the end too like in the post uh Mana
13:30
Forge quest lines when you're helping
13:33
with the the Venari initiative and
13:36
you're doing the stuff specifically with
13:37
Hemet Nessing Ray. Um, you're getting
13:41
life from other places and bringing it
13:43
to these areas and the whole effort of
13:45
it is to resustain the world soul
13:48
essentially cycling like a Titan like
13:51
the Titans had done on Azeroth and
13:53
probably countless other worlds. Like
13:54
that's the whole point of that quest
13:56
line.
13:56
>> But you know what you think that you
13:58
just reminded me of something that of
13:59
all people my wife used to do a
14:00
criticism of Starfleet for this. Uh, one
14:03
of the things that that Star Trek never
14:05
deals with is the fact that because
14:07
trade between planets exists, the all
14:11
planets currently that that we've ever
14:13
inhabited, this one is a closed system
14:17
other than rocket junk we leave in
14:19
orbit. Nothing really gets off the
14:21
planet. There's there's no loss of water
14:24
or food.
14:27
But now with the the thing in in you
14:30
were just talking about on Caresh Caresh
14:32
is gettinga from other worlds.
14:37
It's essentially taking, you know,
14:39
spirit energy that would have been on
14:41
those planets and will now instead be on
14:45
Caresh. Is what's going to come out of
14:47
that going to be the world soul of Kesh
14:51
or is it going to be a world soul that
14:54
has pieces from other worlds?
14:57
Are they essentially you you're talking
14:59
about it and it's an interesting idea
15:01
that it may be fractured because we've
15:03
seen fractured souls
15:05
>> uh going all the way back to to let me
15:08
hold give let give me finish here.
15:10
>> If what they're doing is trying to
15:12
regrow the soul, but they're using from
15:14
other worlds to do it. You could be
15:17
creating an entirely new world soul.
15:21
But I guess that this is where the
15:23
question comes in because yes that is a
15:25
possibility.
15:26
But the other possibility in and we and
15:29
to a certain extent and we just got done
15:31
talking about this last week with uh the
15:33
harineer uh uh Talison just got done
15:36
talking about this as well. We just had
15:38
the big story reveal uh in game with the
15:41
new patch story quest stuff that
15:43
everybody's been talking about where uh
15:46
there again we know that exposure to a
15:50
world soul can mutate essentially can
15:54
evolve something. It can evolve a being.
15:58
So the question then becomes, are these
16:00
beings and theirma potentially
16:03
warping the world soul into a new entity
16:06
or will filtering the through it then
16:10
cause them to become different entities?
16:13
>> It can be both, man.
16:15
>> Yeah, both.
16:16
>> Yep. Yeah, it can do two things. Who
16:17
says it can't Farnsworth because he
16:20
loves Farnsworth? But that's actually
16:22
interesting because that re that reveals
16:23
back to we've known like since the you
16:27
know the the idea of the world soul
16:29
changing the night elves we've known
16:32
that for a long time and if if we
16:37
extrapolate it from the thing we saw in
16:38
the hariners cinematic which I'm not
16:40
going to talk about but if if we think
16:43
about this really carefully
16:46
what's going to happen to the etherealss
16:48
and the the robot versions of them. I'm
16:51
sorry I can't remember the name right
16:52
now because they're not etherealss.
16:54
They're wearing the suits.
16:56
>> Um the the Shadowlands guys like
16:59
yourself brokers. Yeah, the brokers are
17:01
wearing those suits to keep their souls
17:03
intact. The etherealss have wrappings,
17:06
but there's they're pure spirit energy,
17:08
right?
17:10
That's what they are. They're spirit
17:12
energy now. They're like literally
17:13
beings of spirit. Their physical forms
17:15
have been shredded and destroyed.
17:17
I honestly find myself wondering if
17:19
they're going to become part of this
17:21
composite entity you're talking about.
17:23
Like if the world soul is changing the,
17:27
you know, everything to suit itself,
17:29
eventually they might be on the block
17:32
and not necessarily killed or anything,
17:34
but like the way the the the the
17:38
um
17:40
the earn
17:42
are more in tune with Azeroth now than
17:45
they used to be.
17:47
Well, they're re they're reatuned with
17:49
Azeroth.
17:50
>> Yeah. But but they they now have that
17:53
the old diamond thing. They've got that
17:55
again and this time it's directly to to
17:57
as you know a whole generation of Earth
17:59
and are like literally mini magnes.
18:02
And the Atherealss could be going
18:04
through that too. It might be the sign
18:06
of like what happens to these world
18:08
souls when they don't have titans
18:10
controlling the revolution
18:13
because Amthul decided he thought all
18:16
world souls should be like him. And we
18:19
talked about this I think two weeks ago
18:21
maybe.
18:21
>> Yeah.
18:22
>> Um the the idea of what if Amanthul was
18:25
going around and killing worlds where
18:27
they wouldn't go the way he wanted them
18:30
to.
18:31
>> What if those millions and millions of
18:32
of lives were the actual world? We
18:35
didn't say, we didn't say kill. We said
18:36
reorinated.
18:38
>> Maybe reorinated. Maybe killed. Maybe
18:40
just repurposed them. Maybe forced them
18:41
into a form he wanted. But regardless,
18:46
we may be looking at what happens when
18:48
the world soul itself, whether through
18:51
desperation or opportunity, is in
18:54
control of its own direction.
18:57
>> Yeah. Because the Titan, we have no
18:59
evidence that the Titans even knew about
19:00
Caresh, right?
19:03
We have an inkling that they might have,
19:05
but we don't know for sure. If anything,
19:08
>> there's any evidence about it.
19:09
>> No, no, there's no evidence, but the
19:12
running theory or at least speculation
19:15
is that Sargeras did.
19:19
So, there's little tiny things that
19:21
could be like construed like that, but
19:24
nothing hard. Now,
19:26
>> it does seem like, you know, if
19:29
if the old gods are shot throughout the
19:33
universe to corrupt possible world souls
19:36
and then you have a world soul that's
19:37
being assaulted by the entity that sent
19:41
the old gods in the first place, you'd
19:42
think that would be like even more of an
19:44
emergency and they'd go try to oppose
19:46
Dementius and and maybe they just did
19:50
didn't know about I mean, they we they
19:51
obviously didn't know about Azeroth
19:53
being corrupted until they they showed
19:55
up. It wasn't like there was uh you know
19:57
signals going out that they picked up on
19:59
their Titan receivers.
20:02
>> Yeah. The other thing though to to bear
20:03
in mind is we don't know and just to I
20:07
don't disagree with you. Um but one
20:09
thing I would like to clarify is we
20:10
don't have confirmation that the void
20:12
lords knew world souls existed as they
20:15
started flinging bits of themselves into
20:16
the prime material plane. We we have no
20:19
confirmation of that. We have
20:21
speculation and based off of and a lot
20:24
of this is revolving around uh Zalatath
20:27
and some unreliable narrator sources
20:29
through Chronicle um that that's what
20:32
their purpose was, but it might not have
20:34
been. It might have just been to
20:36
consume. It might have just been to
20:38
spread and propagate. And we know that
20:40
they flung bits of themselves into other
20:42
dimensions because well, they flung
20:43
themselves into the uh at least they
20:46
were capable of getting to the
20:47
Shadowlands at some point. uh but we
20:50
don't know the extent of where or what
20:52
else they've breached into other other
20:54
realms if at all. So we don't know what
20:57
their motivations or their endgame is.
20:59
We have whatever we know from Zalat and
21:02
whatever the Titans have told us and the
21:03
Titan keepers and and watchers and
21:05
stuff, but we also know that all of them
21:08
are unreliable narrators that either A
21:11
were programmed a very specific way and
21:13
to think a very specific way. B, we have
21:15
confirmation even from the Titans in
21:17
hard form multiple times over that they
21:20
lie uh you know or Zelth who has while
21:24
will not necessarily lie to us uh will
21:27
not tell you the whole truth because it
21:30
doesn't serve her to do a creative
21:32
that's a creative approach to
21:33
truthtelling in that she will use it to
21:36
disregard. What was the old thing? I I
21:38
flatter only to disgard. That's that's
21:40
that's [snorts]
21:42
tells you the truth when it will mess
21:43
you up the most.
21:47
>> But I it's it's interesting because
21:49
there's a lot of potential here for
21:51
where a story could go. Um and I think
21:54
Caresh, we're going to wind up coming
21:56
back to it. The seed has already been
21:58
planted. Uh and I don't mean that in
22:01
like the joking way. I literally mean
22:04
that that story hook has been laid out
22:07
there. That thread has been laid bare.
22:09
And at any point in time, we can go back
22:11
to it. And as a matter of fact, the
22:13
story is relatively set up for us to do
22:16
that at some other point. And I have a
22:19
feeling that what Venari is learning
22:22
with Hemet and the group as far as what
22:26
the nature of Caresh is and the
22:28
regeneration of Caresh will become very
22:31
relevant to us in The Last Titan.
22:35
[clears throat] Because
22:37
again going to the the last part of your
22:39
question of how worried should
22:40
Azeroththeians be,
22:42
we don't know because we still don't
22:45
know what happens to a world when a
22:46
Titan is born because Argus while it is
22:50
in pieces that happened before Argus was
22:53
born and we fight against the world soul
22:57
of Argus arguably Argus is born at that
23:00
point. uh it is given a caporeal form in
23:04
which it is able to interact with the
23:05
universe uh not just its b like prison
23:09
binds inside of the engine there uh and
23:13
Argus doesn't blow up further
23:16
and I know somebody said well the the
23:17
the eggshell's already been cracked we
23:19
don't know and the other thing is the
23:23
titans are beings of pure energy world
23:27
souls are beings of pure energy their
23:30
physical vessel. Their form is just
23:34
that. It's a vessel. It's a form. And
23:37
we've already seen Sargeras inhabit
23:40
multiple vessels and forms. Uh we've
23:42
seen the Pantheon completely be
23:44
destroyed by Sargeras. Uh their physical
23:48
forms completely laid bare, spread into
23:50
cosmic dust or bits that have fallen to
23:53
Azeroth. We don't know what happened to
23:54
their physical forms. uh only for their
23:56
souls to be taken back to Argus and
23:58
tortured after being discovered uh by
24:01
Sargeras and later Agamar. Uh then they
24:06
were able to pop out of their
24:08
confinement after we're there fighting,
24:10
gain physical form again into the seat
24:13
of the Pantheon and essentially be
24:16
caporeal again and no planet other no
24:20
other planet exploded. The planet may
24:22
not explode when a Titan is born.
24:24
Although it's worth pointing out that
24:26
the reason that they appeared in the
24:27
seat of the pan pantheon, the reason
24:29
that Argus appeared there, I mean, is
24:31
because they made him appear there.
24:34
>> Specifically, Aman ful specifically
24:36
Aanth channeling the power of the
24:38
others.
24:39
>> Yeah, but they they knew he was doing
24:41
it. Um I don't feel like
24:44
>> if he was doing something they didn't
24:45
want him to do, they probably would have
24:46
stopped supporting him. But regardless,
24:49
Amanthul pulled the world soul out of
24:52
Argus proper and put it in front of us
24:56
deliberately to let us kill it, which
24:58
shouldn't have worked
25:01
and actually kind of didn't work since
25:04
the second his world soul ended up in
25:06
the Shadowlands. Um, everything went
25:09
kubal.
25:10
Just immediately the avatar mean not the
25:13
avatar the uh arbiter lost its mind
25:17
trying to figure out what to do with
25:19
this. This is not supposed to be here.
25:22
Exception fault error error. Um I find
25:25
it really interesting to think about
25:27
maybe like in the in the order of things
25:30
if you don't do something really
25:32
significant maybe world souls just don't
25:35
die.
25:38
I mean, there's no think about it. It
25:40
looks like you look at Caresh.
25:42
>> We kind of already have proof of that,
25:43
though, don't we?
25:45
>> What? That they don't die or that they
25:47
>> Yeah, that they don't.
25:48
>> Well, that's the They're not supposed to
25:50
die. But we know that Sargeras
25:53
supposedly killed one. And we know that
25:56
we supposedly killed one. Except we also
25:59
know that when we did it, it didn't
26:01
really have the effect we wanted. It
26:03
Argus isn't necessarily dead. Also,
26:05
didn't they in the follow-up quest scene
26:07
in Shadowlands after that, didn't we
26:10
confirm that it wasn't the entire soul
26:12
that went to the Shadowlands that went
26:13
to the frag?
26:16
>> You've been talking about that this
26:17
whole time. The fragmentaryary nature of
26:19
these things. I think that's where I'm
26:21
trying to get to is this idea that
26:24
if you if you smash like souls are
26:28
imperishable, but bodies are not. like
26:31
we die but our soul goes somewhere else
26:34
in the game. I mean I'm not trying to
26:36
make any claims about actual life guys.
26:38
Uh but in in the game we know if you die
26:41
the part the thing that makes you you
26:44
goes to the shadowlands where thema is
26:46
taken out of it and used for you know
26:49
basically regenerating the both the
26:51
shadowlands and the cosmos at large but
26:55
your mind remains.
26:57
It could be, you know, you could have
26:59
your memories removed, things could
27:00
happen, but you you know
27:04
you you are still you there. And that to
27:08
me says that with since they're not
27:10
supposed to even go to the Shadowlands,
27:13
a a world soul, it makes a lot of sense
27:16
for it not to be dead even when it the
27:18
world looks like it's dead because they
27:21
don't die. And then that makes me wonder
27:25
why was Sargeras so sure he'd killed
27:27
one.
27:29
>> Yeah, he he what did he say? Chopped a
27:31
planet in half when he found it
27:33
corrupted. But that doesn't that doesn't
27:35
mean anything. I mean,
27:36
>> who said he killed a world soul?
27:39
>> He did.
27:39
>> He said he destroyed a world soul.
27:43
>> But if he if you can't actually destroy
27:45
it, if you can't kill it, can you
27:47
destroy it? Send it somewhere else?
27:49
>> Well, you you made a point. and you just
27:51
fragment it.
27:52
>> Yeah. So, that's where that's where I
27:53
think you go with this, right? And you
27:55
kind of made this point earlier and I
27:57
think it it it applies here that world
28:00
soul fragments and becomes something it
28:03
wasn't or isn't meant to be. And in
28:06
essence, like you said, is caresh when
28:09
it comes back because it's using other
28:12
uh you know, is it going to be the same
28:14
that it was before or is it going to be
28:16
something completely different and new
28:18
and and whatever the case is? Um there's
28:22
a case to be made where that very well
28:24
may be what happens. That in his mind he
28:29
took a still forming entity and
28:33
fragmented it, destroyed what it was
28:35
going to become. Didn't actually kill
28:37
it, but made it force it to become
28:39
something else as a result of that.
28:43
>> So that if if what we're talking about
28:45
is true, what does that mean for
28:47
Azeroth? because we've got stuff and
28:50
from all over the universe. We've got
28:54
>> and we have multiple things that
28:56
directly bring that power to Azeroth
28:58
which has been feeding on it for how who
29:01
knows how long.
29:02
>> We know of at least one we've been to.
29:06
>> There's been so much meddling and so
29:08
much focus on it that who who knows
29:11
what's going to happen when Azeroth
29:13
cracks open if that if that is what
29:15
happens.
29:16
>> See, that's the thing though. I keep
29:17
coming back to this idea. What if
29:18
Azeroth is doing something deliberately
29:20
that Argus was forced to do?
29:25
What if Argus is, you know, Azeroth is
29:27
fracturing itself?
29:31
>> Like, or if already did.
29:34
>> Yeah, that's what I'm saying. What if
29:38
every time you hear about heroes from
29:40
Azeroth going off and doing something
29:42
ridiculous and potentially impossible,
29:44
it's because they're literally part This
29:48
is the Titan's body.
29:51
The body of Azeroth, the Titan, is not a
29:54
big rock thing that moves around and is
29:57
the scale. So, it can it can't even
29:59
interact with planets without messing
30:01
them up. It's it's taken on a form that
30:05
can accomplish amazing works but can do
30:09
it without the scale. It doesn't need to
30:12
be the size of a planet. It's the size
30:15
of everything on it.
30:17
>> So, it doesn't need to crack the egg
30:20
because it is already out of the egg.
30:22
>> Well, we're we're it right. We're kind
30:24
of like we're kind of it like Algolon
30:26
already
30:27
>> kind of like maybe tipped his hand on
30:29
that one a little bit where it's like
30:31
>> what are you how are you doing this
30:33
those that you how can you defy what has
30:35
been you know manifested or fate for you
30:38
>> and then you look at it and it's like
30:39
well because we're all titans we're all
30:41
we all have pieces of it inside which is
30:43
also why I think we react maybe the way
30:46
we do to Azerite uh or
30:48
>> and also maybe how it is that Anduin
30:51
opened the first one gate
30:56
Because all of this was started by the
30:58
first ones to create something that
31:00
could handle some kind of threat, right?
31:05
Something we've never even like, we
31:07
don't even really know what it was that
31:08
Zal thought was coming, but we know that
31:10
the first ones, this is what they did to
31:12
to deal with it. What if that's why we
31:16
can activate the gates? Maybe we're the
31:19
like it's in a weird sort of way we are
31:22
the the recombination of all these
31:24
factors into a different alignment, a
31:26
different way of being.
31:31
>> We can do this.
31:32
>> How many times have a band of
31:34
adventurers from Azeroth showed up and
31:36
some cosmic bad guy or someone is like,
31:40
"You puny, you could never do anything.
31:42
You could never." And then we do
31:43
something and they're like, "Wait, who
31:44
are you? What? What?" Like, we're
31:46
clearly special. We're clearly more
31:48
special than just random
31:50
random things that live on a planet.
31:53
>> I mean, we've beaten old gods. We've
31:55
beaten Titan figures. I mean, you know,
31:58
both uh both Algolon and Argus. We've we
32:01
defeated both of them. Uh we we've
32:04
fought things that dwarf us in levels,
32:08
you know, you know, think about the
32:09
great dragons like, you know, Deathwing.
32:11
Deathwing you could literally have a
32:12
40man raid on his back and we beat him
32:16
twice.
32:17
twice in that fight, we beat him and
32:19
then he turned into a big tentacle
32:20
monster and we beat him again. You know,
32:23
we beat Kathun. Uh eventually, you have
32:27
to start looking at this and going,
32:28
"Okay, there's got to be more to this.
32:31
There's got to be justification to this.
32:32
There's got to be something that makes
32:34
this possible."
32:36
And maybe that's going to be happening
32:38
for Caresh. Maybe the the uh the
32:41
Atherealss and the brokers are going to
32:43
be getting that from their god. they're
32:45
going to be giving to it and getting
32:47
back from it. We don't know, but it
32:49
might happen.
32:50
>> I think the futures of these worlds kind
32:53
of go along with what people are doing
32:57
to them. It's not like they're just
32:58
natural things that are on their own
33:00
track. Like you look at Argus and the
33:03
Dani want nothing to do with it. They
33:04
don't want to spend any time there.
33:05
They're not trying to renormalize it.
33:07
They're they're
33:07
>> Well, some are. The ones that are there
33:09
now, the the Aridar that live there now
33:11
are. And that's actually interesting to
33:13
think about. We're we went to Argus and
33:16
basically kicked the Legion off of it
33:18
and gave it back to the people who want
33:20
to live there. And now we're doing we
33:23
did the same thing with Kesh.
33:25
It's quite possible that we've developed
33:27
something where the the world souls of
33:30
those places can be reclaimed
33:33
and basically a new form of Titan can
33:36
exist, a new entity that is,
33:41
>> for lack of a better word, distributed,
33:43
>> which could have been the first one's
33:45
plan all along.
33:47
>> Yeah, it could have been. We don't even
33:49
know what the first ones like, you know,
33:50
we know nothing about them. We just know
33:52
that they did all this stuff. We don't
33:54
have pictures of them or anything like
33:56
that.
33:59
>> First ones are just trying to collect
34:01
all the different types of world soul
34:02
and they're like, "Oh man, nine in a row
34:05
and they're all titans." Ooh, look, one
34:06
of them went uh rogue and it's now like
34:08
a fell titan. That's kind of cool. And
34:10
maybe Azeroth will be something else
34:12
because it's got this focus of all
34:15
different energies and different places
34:17
from the universe and and maybe Azeroth
34:20
will be not just be like another Titan
34:23
in line.
34:24
>> World Souls is Eevee.
34:26
>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And that and that's
34:29
why you have the Titans setting up their
34:32
facilities trying to influence it. And
34:34
that's why you have the old gods trying
34:36
to corrupt it. They're not trying to
34:37
destroy, they're trying to influence.
34:38
So, everyone's trying to claim and
34:41
flavor it. What's Zalat trying to do?
34:42
Maybe she's trying to
34:44
>> Yeah.
34:45
>> figure out a way to use I mean, you have
34:47
Dementius. Dementius shows up at Hesh
34:50
and he uses void energy and arcane. So,
34:54
why is he why is he using that kind of
34:56
magic? So, I I there seems to be a way
34:59
that you can nourish and grow a world
35:02
soul. And there seems to be a way that
35:04
you can corrupt and influence and make
35:07
make it in your own image forcefully
35:09
because we don't hear we don't hear
35:11
joyous music from Azeroth. The the the
35:13
song that we hear is like in it's in
35:15
pain.
35:16
>> Well, yes. Um sometimes,
35:20
right? We haven't even gone back to the
35:22
song yet, which may or may not have been
35:24
Azeroth.
35:26
One of the things that I think is is
35:28
also really interesting there
35:30
going back to what we talked about years
35:34
ago and Matt and I have talked about and
35:36
you and you've talked with us about it
35:38
here as well, Eric. What is one thing
35:40
that we said about Titan forged races?
35:46
And I'm including the the dragons in
35:49
this as well because they are a Titan
35:51
forged race.
35:53
They're all really sensitive to energy,
35:56
right?
35:59
Like they seem to be almost templates
36:03
where
36:04
>> like look at the
36:06
>> I was going to say you think the earn or
36:08
the vool serve as really good examples
36:10
of this because we've got the frost v
36:12
and the iron and yeah and I mean
36:16
obviously you get humans if you leave
36:17
them alone long enough. Uh, I feel like
36:19
that's like they left him out too long
36:20
and they kind of went bad. Like they've
36:22
spoiled a little bit. Oh no, it's got
36:25
human. Ugh, I hate that. But the the
36:28
idea is what if that malleability is
36:30
because
36:32
they're Titan forged and that is part of
36:35
the Titans and part of the reason why
36:36
Amanthule is so vehemently against ANR's
36:41
plan and uh against Aloon is because
36:46
it is malleable and if it doesn't adhere
36:49
to his plan and it's allowed to grow
36:52
into whatever it wants to be or whatever
36:54
it's supposed to be then it kind of
36:58
undoes his lie if that makes sense where
37:02
like he's very much about the order and
37:05
the structure and it has to be this way.
37:08
What if that's just BS? And what we're
37:10
seeing on Azeroth is the true natural
37:14
state of a world soul much in the way of
37:18
it's just constantly evolving
37:21
because of what's exposed to it in the
37:25
same way of things being like being
37:31
evolved or or forced evolution by being
37:35
exposed to Azeroth, right? We talk about
37:37
like the Titans making like a giantma
37:40
engine to flow the back into Azeroth.
37:43
That has to have an effect. But why were
37:45
they worried about that? It wasn't that
37:47
they were worried about Azeroth bleeding
37:48
out.
37:50
Like I don't think that's true because
37:52
Azeroth would probably be dead by now if
37:54
that was capable. Of all the holes that
37:56
have been rent through reality and
37:58
through Azeroth, she'd probably be just
38:01
be gone. Gone if that was even possible.
38:02
Plus, she had nec she had necrophotic
38:05
parasites feeding on her for an untold
38:08
amount of time.
38:09
>> Yeah.
38:09
>> And that five of them are still there.
38:14
You know, the fact that that Azeroth
38:16
isn't dead is is really testimony not
38:18
just to the fact that world souls are
38:20
imperishable, but to just how powerful
38:22
Azeroth is.
38:23
>> Right. And I keep coming back to like
38:24
how Magny would describe the the
38:27
conversation with Azeroth. It was like a
38:29
child, right? And a lot of people would
38:33
looked at literally that it was
38:35
literally that this was an undeveloped
38:37
sentience or an underdeveloped sentience
38:39
that was nent and and becoming
38:42
something. What if that is not actually
38:47
accurate and that Azeroth wasn't
38:49
necessarily a child but Azeroth was an
38:52
evolving consciousness
38:54
and that's more what it meant. But Magny
38:57
doesn't have the the tools to describe
39:00
that. But he's a father and he
39:02
understands a child growing up and
39:04
learning their own identity and likens
39:06
it to that versus maybe he's describing
39:10
exactly what Eric's talking about and
39:11
exactly what you're talking about where
39:13
this exposure to, you know, other
39:16
worldly animas or to the experiences of
39:19
all these beings, but not just these
39:22
beings, all these energies. Because as
39:23
we've talked before, and I'm I love
39:25
pointing this out, Azeroth is
39:27
technically at the very center of the
39:29
cosmic like planosphere, right? All
39:33
everything touches it. You can get
39:35
everywhere from Azeroth. And I don't
39:38
think that's an accident. And I think
39:40
maybe
39:42
like things like rebuilding the Final
39:44
Titan isn't so much about actually
39:46
putting the pieces back together, it's
39:48
taking the shackles off. It's shutting
39:51
down the research facilities that were
39:53
refunding like a very strict flavor of
39:57
back in. It's allowing the Maggar orcs
40:00
to migrate to Azeroth and bring their
40:03
life experiences here. It's bringing the
40:06
the the the Drai and bringing the light
40:09
forged army here. It's bringing the void
40:12
elves back from their Sojourn and
40:14
letting them rest upon Azeroth. It's
40:17
bringing all these disperate groups, all
40:19
these disperate energies, all of these
40:21
disperate experiences back to Azeroth.
40:25
And it again, it seems like the one
40:27
place in the universe we can all get to
40:29
every single time is Azeroth.
40:32
I I I just there's something there.
40:35
There's just something intentional about
40:37
that. And I think maybe we keep hearing
40:39
about we're going to discover the Titans
40:41
lie.
40:43
What if that's it? What if it's that
40:46
world souls
40:48
like ANR and Aloon have the right of it?
40:52
You just set them, you nurture them, and
40:55
you let them be what they're going to
40:56
be. You embrace nature as opposed to
41:01
embracing structure.
41:03
They Here's where I'm going to play
41:05
devil's advocate for a second. I think
41:07
you've got a good point and it could in
41:08
fact be the endgame we're going for, but
41:11
I want to throw this out there. What if
41:13
the reason Amanthul is the way he is is
41:17
because
41:19
they monkeyed with him?
41:22
>> Who's they?
41:24
>> The entities that exist outside of this
41:26
reality cuz he was just a world soul,
41:29
right? And we know the world souls are
41:31
supposedly tossed into this reality. But
41:33
who threw them?
41:36
>> Remember remember who put them here?
41:38
Remember way back when I talked about
41:40
the Titans maybe have a correlation to
41:42
their natural affinity based off of to
41:45
their like planer
41:48
proximity to whatever plane or uh like
41:52
power source is there. Do you think that
41:54
maybe or the order order realm reached
41:57
in and tinkered with the world soul that
42:00
would become Alanthol?
42:02
>> I've thought about that from time to
42:04
time. But here's the thing I keep
42:05
thinking about. Where do we How do we
42:08
know that the world souls were thrown
42:11
into this reality?
42:12
>> We don't.
42:13
>> Just because we know that the old gods
42:16
are doesn't mean we know the world souls
42:18
are. What if world souls grow here?
42:21
>> Yeah. Like
42:22
>> Amen believes what he believes because
42:26
he he was the first one who supposedly
42:28
woke up, right? That's what we've been
42:30
told. Amen was the first one to wake up.
42:32
But we have no idea if there are other
42:34
titans in group that aren't in the
42:37
pantheon, have never heard of the
42:38
pantheon. The cosmos is big. And we even
42:42
be told that like, you know, that it
42:45
takes forever to get across it, even
42:47
using ships that jump in and out of the
42:48
twisting nether. There could be titans
42:51
out there that have absolutely no
42:53
knowledge of any of this stuff. And why
42:57
does Amandul the way he is accept what
43:01
you've just suggested, which is kind of
43:03
what I'm talking about? What if order
43:06
picked him
43:09
and and chose to embrace him? Maybe he
43:12
was too close to it. Maybe whatever part
43:14
of the cosmos he was in was closer to
43:17
the orderly plane for some reason, the
43:19
the astral plane. the and we know that
43:22
we keep being told that the great dark
43:24
beyond and the twisting nether are
43:26
different things, right?
43:28
>> Well, that's right.
43:28
>> We're told they're different things and
43:29
then we are and then we're not. Yeah.
43:32
>> Yeah. What if the reason we're told that
43:34
they're different things is because the
43:35
twisting nether does interfere with the
43:37
great dark beyond and so does everything
43:41
else. The shadowlands interfere with it.
43:43
That's why there are pseudo shadowlands
43:45
where you can go and steal a dead horse.
43:48
If you're a death knight, you need to
43:49
get a dead horse spirit in order to ride
43:51
around on it. And then there's like a
43:54
there's like a pocket planes of life
43:55
where you suddenly have the emerald
43:57
dreams where you can suddenly touch the
43:59
you know you can touch pure life itself,
44:01
but you don't actually go into the life
44:03
plane. You stay isolated.
44:06
What if Amanthul was in an area closer
44:09
to something like that and has been just
44:12
as affected by it as everybody else is?
44:16
Like Sargeras when he started getting
44:17
into the fell started cracking and
44:20
splitting. Everything he had as a as a
44:22
host body was like turning into some
44:25
kind of nightmarish, you know, green and
44:27
red monster thing. He didn't used to
44:30
look like that. He used to look like
44:31
pure metal. Why did he turn into that?
44:35
Well, because he was exposed to fell.
44:37
And we've already talked about that
44:38
stuff. That seems to be an instrumental
44:39
nature not just of all things Titan
44:41
constructed, but of Titans.
44:45
I mean the void they wouldn't be trying
44:46
to make a void titan if if you couldn't
44:48
make a void titan.
44:50
>> They did. They they had it ready to go.
44:55
I keep wondering about this if if the
44:57
reason Amos doesn't trust Aloon is
45:00
because Aloon is akin to the things that
45:03
tried to make him into a puppet.
45:07
>> Maybe those things tried to make him Oh,
45:08
Eric was talking. I'm sorry.
45:09
>> I heard Eric pipe up. I want to hear
45:11
what he he's got on this
45:12
>> in this line. Amanthul wakes up and he's
45:15
in the universe alone. How does he know
45:16
what to do? How does he know to seek out
45:19
other world souls? How does he know how
45:20
to wake them up? How does he convince
45:22
them that that's the mission? Is it
45:25
instinct of a world soul/ Titan? Or is
45:29
it he has either other motives or other
45:33
directives from someone else? We talked
45:35
I think last week or the week before
45:36
about if somebody else is pulling the
45:38
strings directly or indirectly. But
45:41
yeah, the big I think the big question
45:43
is are world souls just the titans that
45:45
haven't woke up woken up yet and you can
45:47
shade a titan with other energies? You
45:50
can corrupt it. You can corrupt it into
45:51
a void titan or
45:53
>> you seem to be able to do it when there
45:54
you seem to be able to do it to the
45:56
world soul even after it's a titan,
45:58
>> right?
45:58
>> Because that's right there.
46:01
>> That would be avoid titan. But if you
46:03
get to a world soul before it hatches or
46:06
whatever the word is for becomes
46:08
whatever it's going to be, if it's just
46:10
a world soul and then it starts to be
46:13
influenced by void, is it not a void
46:16
titan? Is it just a something else?
46:19
>> What if what if what if they were never
46:21
meant to to get that sort of apotheiois?
46:26
>> What if the what if the natural state of
46:28
a world soul is just the planet and
46:30
stuff living on it and that's it? They
46:31
don't.
46:31
>> Yeah. Wake up. What if the Titans are
46:35
>> like I'm just thinking about like us,
46:37
right? Thinking about what we've done
46:40
and what we're capable of doing and it
46:42
being so, and I'm going to air quote
46:44
unique.
46:46
What if that was the intention all along
46:51
and Amanthul was the aberration
46:56
and he
46:57
>> or the construct
46:59
>> or the construct and he
47:01
>> What did he do?
47:02
>> Yep.
47:08
>> I'm I'm I stopped so you could talk.
47:09
>> No, I was agreeing with you. I was
47:11
Please.
47:12
>> Yeah. I just I'm thinking about it like
47:14
look at what happened with like the the
47:17
earth into the dwarves. What did the
47:19
dwarfs start making
47:21
constructs?
47:23
>> Like what if that's if of all of the
47:26
groups the ones that are closest to
47:28
Amanthul are the ones led by Odin and
47:33
the ones led by master raen.
47:36
Odin and Raden.
47:39
Those were the two chosen by Aman Thu.
47:45
When when Roden got the fragment of Aman
47:49
Thu, it drove him crazy. He had to rip
47:53
it out and put it in the body of water
47:56
or it would have driven him completely
47:58
mad.
48:00
Why?
48:02
Why? You don't hear that for the others.
48:05
You don't hear that for the like, you
48:07
know, other Titan souls went into other
48:11
Watchers. You don't hear anything about
48:12
them driving them insane.
48:15
But but Amenthul did to the point where
48:18
the mi the whole vision that started off
48:20
this whole Last Titan, Final Titan
48:22
thing, you must rebuild the Final Titan.
48:24
Do not forget comes from the fragment of
48:28
Amandul
48:30
because it was that fragment that was
48:32
inside Raden. It's that fragment that
48:34
Roden had ripped out of him. The
48:37
memories and the power was torn out of
48:40
him by the Thunder King and then he went
48:43
crazy.
48:46
Who is who is the Wii of rebuilding the
48:48
Final Titan? Why does it want a Final
48:51
Titan rebuilt? What even will the Final
48:54
Titan look like?
48:57
>> I think Amanthul knows stuff. I think
49:00
yeah, there's plenty of characters in in
49:02
the universe that know something that we
49:04
don't, but if there's anybody that knows
49:06
something about the the big picture and
49:08
what's going on and everything and I
49:10
think having confirmation that there
49:12
will be a Titan conspiracy unmasked,
49:15
it's not like there's going to be three
49:16
other Titans who are behind the
49:18
conspiracy and Amen's going to be like,
49:20
"What?
49:20
>> They tricked me."
49:21
>> Yeah.
49:23
>> I just really liked gardening on little
49:25
planets and making little copies of
49:26
Titans and stuff like that. like he's
49:29
the mastermind and I think all the other
49:32
it could be that the conspiracy is just
49:34
from him and all the other titans will
49:36
say I knew that guy was up to something
49:39
but I couldn't quite put my finger on
49:41
it. It could be that the conspiracy is
49:42
not pantheonwide. It could be just
49:44
coming from him.
49:45
>> But it could even be bigger than that.
49:47
Like what if the entire concept of a
49:49
Titan is [clears throat] wrong? Like
49:51
Joe's just kind of hinted at. Joe just
49:53
said it. Like Joe literally just said,
49:55
you know, what if it was never supposed
49:56
to be this way? What if what we're
49:58
seeing with both um Caresh and Azeroth
50:03
to a degree, the idea that, you know,
50:05
instead of the world soul being stuck in
50:08
this giant construct like body, what if
50:11
the world soul is supposed to be a
50:12
shared soul between everyone? It's
50:15
supposed to fragment. It's supposed to
50:17
break up and be in everyone. And that
50:20
way, everyone is part of the Titan.
50:23
Everyone is Azeroth.
50:25
Like that might be what every world soul
50:28
was supposed to get to do. And in fact,
50:30
it might be that every world soul is in
50:33
fact a fragment of a bigger universal
50:36
soul. I kind of like that. The idea that
50:40
Azeroth is unique and powerful because
50:42
it is completely fragmented or at least
50:45
the most fragmented and that's why we
50:47
all are a part of the world soul and
50:50
that's why we have these specific
50:51
powers. and Amanul's going around to
50:54
other world soul planets and just kind
50:55
of rolling them up like a ball of
50:57
Play-Doh into one big figure and being
50:59
like, "You are Norana now. Follow me and
51:02
we'll make more of us." Maybe. I mean,
51:05
it certainly seems like one possibility.
51:07
But at any rate, I would love to see
51:10
like does Caresh's world soul at this
51:11
point have true
51:14
identity? Can it talk to people? not
51:17
just be heard by them, but actually say
51:19
something coherent. Or is it so messed
51:22
up from what it's been through that the
51:24
best you're going to get out of it is
51:25
some I'm not dead yet? Like we what what
51:30
could Caresh become? What could Azeroth
51:32
become? And man, we have spent pretty
51:35
much the entire show on this one
51:36
question and we didn't even answer the
51:38
second part of it. [laughter]
51:41
I think that if whatever happens in the
51:43
Last Titan does result in Azeroth
51:45
hatching and our planet getting
51:47
shattered, I think based on what we've
51:49
seen some from other shattered planets,
51:50
it could be one of those like, oh no,
51:52
hey, actually we're fine. And then the
51:54
expansion after The Last Titan is we go
51:57
around and we do all our housekeeping
51:59
stuff and we deal with some of those
52:00
conflicts and our build bridges between
52:04
rocks.
52:05
>> Yeah. But the the continents are still
52:07
there. They're just Yeah. You just have
52:08
to cross. And you looked, it's like,
52:10
hey, don't fall into the twisting
52:11
nether. Stay on the bridge and then you
52:12
can get back to uh, you know, Duskwood.
52:16
>> We built our nether boats. So, yeah. No,
52:18
that maybe I don't know.
52:25
>> See, the problem is is we're at a point
52:27
where
52:29
if we try to answer another question,
52:30
we're going to be here for another hour.
52:32
[laughter]
52:32
>> Yeah.
52:34
Yeah. I mean, we didn't even finish this
52:36
question. Let's let's finish it off with
52:39
a a maybe coming back to the question
52:42
from not the tinfoil hat aspect, but the
52:46
idea of what the future for the broken
52:49
worlds really is, if anything, because I
52:52
don't think we really covered that. We
52:53
talked a lot about Azeroth. We did talk
52:55
a little bit about Caresh, but with
52:58
Caresh and Drraanor and Argus,
53:01
is there a future now that we know about
53:06
the the possibility of rehabilitating a
53:09
shattered world? What does that mean for
53:11
the others?
53:14
>> I think for Drraanor/Now Outland, the
53:16
answer is probably no, because we know
53:19
it's getting kind of sucked in the
53:20
twisting nether. There's no world soul
53:21
to like rehabilitate and pull everything
53:23
back together. And even though it seems
53:25
stable, whenever you go to Outland,
53:27
you're seeing it kind of frozen in time,
53:29
whatever that is like 14 20 years ago in
53:32
our universe. So, it's probably going to
53:35
crumble into the twisting nether, right?
53:37
I mean, you guys agree with that?
53:40
I mean, they hinted on that in the
53:41
thrall cinematic from Battle for Azeroth
53:44
>> that that in in game it may not have
53:46
changed any, but in in the lore,
53:49
you know, Outland has continued to
53:51
decay.
53:53
>> And they talk about in the books as
53:55
well. Yeah.
53:58
>> And I think aresh, you know, has a
54:01
chance. Like we said, if there's more
54:03
habitable area, um, then maybe Venari
54:07
isn't just trying to fill up that one
54:09
eco with life and figure out what kind
54:11
of ecosystem they can get back. Maybe
54:14
the eco on other places will be miles
54:16
wide. Or maybe there's they they want to
54:19
be able to have entire areas with no
54:21
eco, but take the species that we spent
54:24
all that time collecting and and spread
54:26
them out and have it be like a true
54:28
planet sized or at least bigger than
54:30
that one chunk. So yeah, you guys say
54:33
we'll be going back there someday. I I I
54:36
didn't think about it before, but I
54:37
could easily say, yeah, it makes sense.
54:39
We go back.
54:42
Matt.
54:45
>> Uh, Farrellon aka Nethertorm is where
54:47
Dimensions was trying to go.
54:50
Faron aka Nethertorm had EcoDoomes.
54:59
Rayanor
55:00
didn't have a world soul.
55:03
Carish did.
55:06
The Atherealss that were working
55:08
alongside Dementius and the Atherealss
55:11
that weren't both had a heavy presence
55:13
in in Nethertorm.
55:18
Draanor is dying. It's the world despite
55:23
the fact that it's got much more arable
55:25
soil and land
55:28
is dying. It's it's it's withering.
55:32
Caresh
55:34
is splintered
55:36
and has less useful surface area but
55:41
doesn't seem to be decaying.
55:44
What if you bridge the two by bringing
55:46
animal life from say outland to correct?
55:51
Oh wait, I did that, didn't I?
55:55
You you've got ecodomes on both worlds.
55:58
You're bringing life from one to the
56:00
other and weaving that life into thema
56:04
of the world soul.
56:07
You're connecting them.
56:08
>> Mhm.
56:09
>> They're both shattered.
56:13
What if you just link all of it? You
56:15
don't have to have it be physically
56:16
connected. But if you spiritually link
56:18
all of it, now all of this different.
56:21
And remember that Dranor when it was a
56:25
single world had so muchma that it made
56:28
the plant life go crazy
56:32
that that you know literally Agrammon
56:35
when he was going by noticed that the
56:37
planet was going to be destroyed by its
56:38
own plants and made a big rock monster
56:41
just as a stop gap because he didn't
56:42
have time. I'm busy but here here I have
56:44
a rock monster. He's a mountain and now
56:46
his name is Grond. But I do go be step
56:50
on those plants for a while. Uh why
56:52
trapped in horrible life? Oh, don't
56:55
worry about it. If you break, you'll
56:56
turn into smaller and smaller things and
56:58
get smarter and more powerful.
57:02
Sound familiar?
57:05
What have we been talking about this
57:06
whole time? The idea that fragments of
57:08
the world soul can shin off and become
57:11
individualized entities.
57:14
Grand
57:15
means that you can say that that's
57:17
happening for orcs
57:20
and ogres and other Drraanor life forms.
57:26
The same process, the same fragmenting
57:28
of a powerful Titan class entity that is
57:31
directly linked to a Titan
57:34
into these beings.
57:37
So why can't the the world soul of kesh
57:41
adopt Dranor? It it is adopting Dranor.
57:46
It is taking Dranor life into itself. I
57:49
think we're going to end up with this
57:51
vast webbing of worlds and we're not
57:55
going to have individual titans anymore.
57:57
We're going to have, like I said,
57:59
distributed titans who are all linked
58:02
together through this soul web. And
58:03
we're going to see it start between
58:05
Azeroth, Caresh, and Drraanor because
58:08
those are the three worlds we've been on
58:09
the most.
58:14
>> And if we're talking about World Souls
58:16
being fragmented, possibly, it could be
58:18
that Argus has enough left in it.
58:21
>> Yeah, maybe parts of Argus that will
58:24
somebody will figure out how to do the
58:26
same thing. or maybe somebody from Kesh
58:27
will go over to Argus and say, "Hey,
58:29
here's what we did to get in touch with
58:31
and reignite it and nurture it. Would
58:34
you guys like help looking into that?"
58:38
>> Yeah, I I don't I can't really say
58:41
anything more because you guys have
58:42
covered that pretty well. Um, [laughter]
58:46
>> yeah, I mean,
58:47
>> also, yeah, the whole Illan thing is
58:49
interesting and I'm sorry we didn't get
58:50
to it.
58:51
>> We'll have to come back to that at some
58:52
other point. Um, but I do think that's
58:54
going to come cover it for today, folks.
58:57
Uh, I do want to thank you for joining
58:58
us on this wonderful tin foil hat, unex
59:00
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59:03
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>> [music]
#Games