The Queue: Dragons, dragons everywhere
@faience
Dang, I mention dragons once in an answer and all of a sudden I’m nostalgic for Blackwing Lair and its utterly ridiculous number of dragons. Was that boss we just fought Firemaw, Ebonroc, or Flamegor? Who knows, because they all have exactly the same model.
But even so, I have crazy nostalgia for that raid, so you get to deal with a Netharion picture for today’s header.
Qftq: Dumb question, but I’ll ask it anyway: Why is trash mobs in raids and dungeons necessary?
The problem with trash fights is that they can be really, really boring. It can be a tedious string of pulls where you stab one mob in the face, then the next mob, then the next, and isn’t anything going to happen in this dungeon? Ever?
But sometimes trash fights can be pretty interesting. There’s often a strategy to pulling them — pull this one not that one, wait for that patrol, hug the wall to bypass this pack — that makes them an interesting challenge. Think Eye of Azshara, where tons of trash can be avoided if you take the right path (and tons of neutral mobs can be avoided if the DPS would just stop hitting the seagulls). When there’s some strategy beyond kill this mob, then this mob, then this mob, even trash can make for interesting encounters.
And sometimes trash packs can be harder than the bosses themselves. When I think of challenging trash, my mind immediately goes to the Suppression Room in Blackwing Lair. This area is densely packed with trash mobs that respawn quickly. Your raid had to move forward in a tight group, AOEing like crazy to take the trash down fast and keep moving. There was rarely time to stop to eat or drink. It was a race to make it through the room and to the boss before the healers ran out of mana and the trash overwhelmed you.
And the boss? I can’t even remember his name without looking it up, but he was essentially Yet Another Random Dragon Guy, which the raid is absolutely packed with. But I remember the run through the trash leading up to him very clearly.
Trash can be interesting, too. It’s often not, but it has the potential to be.
Q4tQ: So I just noticed that Trial of the Champion and the Oculus spend 12-13 levels in the WOTLK dungeon rotation. I personally will be switching to Burning Crusade queue as soon as I get one of those and have it implode, and here we come to my actual question:
Do “endgame dungeons” with advanced tactics (Halls of reflection) or vehicles that you must learn “on other people’s time” (Oculus, TotC) really belong in a “passing through” leveling dungeon rotation? These dungeons are meant to be endgame challenges, done by invested players in past eras when the dungeon finder was still new/novel enough that some people still talked and listened… and before the spanish speaking servers were merged with english (yes I know, european players and other regions have always dealt with language barriers, they’re new to my experience). Indeed, you had to unlock at least the trial of the champion through a jousting tutorial, if I recall correctly. I can’t even imagine the Oculus in the current dungeon reality. No one who has joined WoW in the past 7-8 years can be expected to know how to pilot a dragon or joust.
Like it’s no skin off my nose if they remain, I have the burning crusade queue to fall back on, but I think there’s an argument that the current environment of “don’t talk, just go” to today’s levels in randomly assembled dungeons is not compatible with these particular looks upon past gaming paradigms.
I was chatting about a similar topic with my guild last week, when we were running Ulduar Timewalking. You can’t LFR Timewalking raids, and it’s pretty easy to see why. Can you imagine a PUG handling Flame Leviathan? None of the mechanics are intuitive or explained — you either know them and you handle the encounter or you don’t know it and you’re left a bloody pulp on the ground. It’s not a DPS race and it’s not a challenge to avoid standing in the fire: the encounter’s about coordination and teamwork. If your raid doesn’t have that kind of coordination… well, it doesn’t matter if you can get past Flame Leviathan, because there are more complicated encounters to come. (Yogg, anyone?)
Which isn’t to say PUGs necessarily lack teamwork, but Flame Leviathan certainly an encounter that requires more knowledge than today’s LFRs, which just try to steamroll through everything. (Even if you die, hey, another Determination stack!)
And, as you point out, there are some dungeons with complicated mechanics, too, that make them challenging for the average PUG. So where do these things belong in our modern LFG lifestyle? After thinking it through while running Ulduar, I think they don’t. The game’s Timewalking raids don’t have an LFR mode for a reason: Blizzard isn’t going to take the time to scale it down to an easily-doable PUG level, and so any LFR would just be an exercise in frustration. (Kind of like Antorus LFR on a Monday night.) I think the same should probably apply to other “end game” style dungeons — a PUG is going to be a miserable experience, so make players go in with a known group. Yes, it means fewer players will be running that dungeon, but we’ll all be happier for it.
Q4TQ: If the next Overwatch hero is Brigitte, do you think that was Blizzard’s plan from the beginning (and thus the Reinhardt short was laying the groundwork), or do you feel they decided to go with her after the positive reaction at BlizzCon?
I’m with Anne on this one. There wasn’t really a good reason to do a Reinhardt cinematic at BlizzCon. Sure, it was a great little story, but Reinhardt already had a comic and Eisenwald was shown off in the Bastion cinematic. (Too soon to mention the Bastion cinematic? Probably too soon.) But if the purpose of the cinematic was to tease Brigitte… well, that makes sense.
But on a practical note, I strongly suspect Overwatch heroes take some time to develop. If Blizzard saw the response to Brigitte and decided they absolutely needed to add her to the game… I think it would probably take longer to design and balance her. After all, Jetpack Cat, who could genuinely be the next hero… could maybe genuinely be the next hero… has been “in development” since before the game’s launch.
TLDR: I think Blizzard had a plan and they’re just following it through. Lucky for them everyone did love Brigitte at BlizzCon.
P.s. Though that’s unlucky for them if the next hero isn’t Brigitte, in which case we riot.
P.p.s. Unless it’s Jetpack Cat, which I’m also okay with. (But Brigitte would still have to come next or we would have to riot.)
Q4tQ: At what point do your feel you are “done” with a raid? When you have all the upgrades you want? Do you go for the achievements? Or do you keep running until the next tier of content is out?
Personally, I’m way to easily bored to just keep running the same old raids over and over again. My first priority is just seeing each raid: checking out the scenery, saying hi to the bosses (who are usually very unfriendly), and watching the story unfold. Then I’ll take the time to finish quests and collect gear (particularly if I’m interested in a transmog set), but really don’t feel a pressing need to grab every piece of gear or finish every achievement. Life is just too short to do the same thing over and over and over and over. And with the quick pace of Legion dungeons, there’s been no need to linger.
That’s probably why we’re at the end of the expansion and I still have quests for Emerald Nightmare and Trial of Valor in my quest log. I’ve seen these raids already and don’t feel a compelling need to go back for a quest reward that, at this point, will be a notable downgrade.
But I suppose the most important question about when I’m “done” with a raid is whether my guild is done with a raid. We’re a casual guild playing through Antorus on Normal but we run older raids for quests and achievements and just for fun. When they’re still doing these runs, I’m probably still doing them too. Even though the content is a bit old, you get to hang out with people you like (at least hopefully your guild is full of people you like) and help some of them gear up. Worst case, you steamroll the place, disenchant every drop, and call it a night. You still get to have fun with friends, and that’s really more important than gear, anyway.
RE: Alliance vs. Horde hostilities. I’ve been thinking about the insults the two factions have for each other. The two most common I’ve seen seem to be:
“ALLIANCE DOGS!”
and
“HORDE FILTH!”
Am I the only one thinking the latter is the more insulting one? Nobody likes filth. But who doesn’t like dogs? Certainly not the Alliance. They’ve even got a very good boy advising their high king! Maybe I’m biased but I think the Horde needs to step up their insult game.
People who use “dogs” as an insult are seriously misguided. Dogs are fantastic. Dogs are great. Dogs love us unconditionally. Who wouldn’t want to be a dog? And why wouldn’t they want to be a dog?
So there are two ways to take this. Either the Horde is collectively really bad at insults or they’re doing their best to compliment their would-be Alliance buddies. But the Alliance, taking these kind words as an insult, leaving the Horde confused and hurt. Why can’t we just be friends?
Maybe the Horde really just wants a hug. Has anyone ever tried that as a way to bring this conflict to a close? Anyone? I think it’s worth a shot. And if you get run through with a sword trying, surely someone will resurrect you. Really, there’s nothing to lose here.
And with that tribute to good doggos everywhere, I’m signing out of this Queue. I will see you all back here again next week. Until then, people!
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