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The QueueDec 20, 2016 11:00 am CT

The Queue: Warhammer vs. Warcraft, Order Hall Campaigns, and the Age of Azeroth


Q4TQ: I’m about to get my Warrior to 110 and complete her Class Hall Campaign. For which class should I level/complete the CHC next? I’ve already completed Hunter, Death Knight, and Paladin; I’m leaning against Priest (and not asking Mitch) because I’ve heard the Priest and Pally campaigns are very similar, but otherwise I’m curious what people thought was an interesting/fun CHC of the ones I’ve not done yet.

If you want a different experience, from what I’ve seen so far Demon Hunter and Warlock have a significantly different experience. Druid is also pretty interesting. (No, I haven’t played them, but I tend to spoil myself as part of my job.) I’ve only played my Hunter, Paladin, DK and Warriors this expansion for any length of time, but the stuff I’ve read on the Druid seems a real change of pace, and my Shaman also started being interesting, I just didn’t have time to dedicate to him yet.


The header pic brings back so many feels. I still get a hugenormous case of the sads while questing through Val’sharah, though I’ve managed to quit getting all teary-eyed at the end. Mostly. *sniffle*

QftQ: It seems to me that Ysera joined the night elves in worshiping Elune as her goddess. Does that seem odd for a dragon aspect who was created by the Titans personally? (I sorta recall that each Aspect was created by a different Titan, hence their separate roles and powers.) Are any other Aspects tied to certain Azerothian gods in that way?

There are several things I’d like to comment on here, not all of them interrelated.

  1. Ysera started off as a Proto-Drake, a natural creature born on Azeroth. I don’t know if her species predated the Titan’s arrival or not, but some species on Azeroth did in fact exist before the Old Gods themselves arrived and Proto-Drakes could have been one of them. As a result, after the coming and the Titans and the shaping of Azeroth, it’s entirely possible that Ysera and the other Proto-Drakes had their own spirituality utterly divorced from the Titans.
  2. As others pointed out, Ysera ‘adopted’ Elune’s son Cenarius, who spent much of his time within the Emerald Dream. Exactly how Cenarius is the son of Elune has never really been explained, especially with recent revelations that the goddess also created the Naaru and took part in the ordering of the cosmos at the dawn of creation. We know very little about Elune, much less why she would choose to have a child with one of the Ancients or allow said child to be reared by Ysera. But it’s possible that through her connection to Cenarius Ysera came to know and respect Elune, or even that she was chosen for this role because she’d already come to respect the moon goddess.
  3. It might not actually be worship as such. One of the issues when dealing with religion in a fantasy world with beings of enormous, near godlike power like Elune and Ysera, is that it’s entirely possible to respect and admire a being without worshiping it or seeing it as a worshiper. Did Ysera worship Elune? We don’t know. She never really said.


I had fun last night doing a little RP, but something that I noticed once again was the lack of RP tools built into WoW. There are some interesting addons that help with RP profiles or even making fictional items and books that can be exchanged, but what happens when you use these tools is there always seems to be at least one person who doesn’t have that addon installed and feels out of the loop. They could close down the game, track down the addon, install it, and hop back in; but when you need to do that every time you join a new guild or meet people in the street it can feel frustrating.

I know we recently had a breakfast topic about addons, but do you guys have any RP-friendly features you think WoW should make baseline? I think a profile tab would be swell, but honestly I want just more animations, like the ability to stand battle-ready on command, or do things like /hammer or /readbook for idling reasons. I’ve made a habit of carrying low-level crafting supplies and even some nearly worthless AP tokens just so I have access to those animations on-demand.

Last names. I’d love to give characters last names. Especially since even Elves seem to have last names in WoW – my poor Night Elf is standing around talking to other Night Elves who all have last names, and I don’t. (Since one of my Warriors, my DK and my Hunter are all Night Elves, I keenly feel this lack.)

Other than that, I don’t really know what I’d add. The Emote system and /me seem to do most of what I need from my RPing, but I tend not to use addons or do anything terribly fancy when I RP. I’m curious what other people will come up with though. I might as well ask, what RP addons do you all feel I should get? What am I missing out on? (At present I don’t have any.)


A friend came over this weekend and showed me the game Warhammer (the newest one in the fantasy series, not the future stuff). My first impression was obviously the comparisons between it and WoW. Now, I know there are certain fantasy tropes that are similar across everything in the fantasy genre, usually credited to Tolkien for establishing them. But some were too on-the nose.

The humans and the Empire looked a lot like Stormwind. The dwarves looked identical, and their home area looked exactly like Ironforge. The vampires (the equivalent of undead) had similar architecture and overall look.

But worst of all were the orcs and goblins. They were nearly spot on, they worked together (remember the only race from the horde that Garrosh took with him was goblin), and one of the orcs that I fought, that seemed to be a leader for his group of Greenskins (I know, that’s racist, but what they’re called) was named Grom.

I’ll have more Warhammer/Warcraft related comments, but my first QftQ: How much of this was just similarities in the genre, and how much was one game borrowing from the other?

It’s fair to say that Warcraft, as a setting, wouldn’t even exist if Blizzard could have gotten the license to Warhammer. Indeed, there wouldn’t be a Warcraft at all. According to producer and lead programmer on Warcraft: Orcs & Humans Patrick Wyatt:

Allen Adham hoped to obtain a license to the Warhammer universe to try to increase sales by brand recognition. Warhammer was a huge inspiration for the art-style of Warcraft, but a combination of factors, including a lack of traction on business terms and a fervent desire on the part of virtually everyone else on the development team (myself included) to control our own universe nixed any potential for a deal. We had already had terrible experiences working with DC Comics on “Death and Return of Superman” and “Justice League Task Force”, and wanted no similar issues for our new game.

So yes, by the admission of the person who both produced and lead programming for the first Warcraft game, Warcraft was inspired by Warhammer and had Allen Adham gotten his way, it would have been a Warhammer game. But it’s also clear that pretty much everyone else involved in the creation of Warcraft didn’t want it to be one.

It’s ironic that DC Comics being pains in the butt saved Warcraft from being a licensed property. If it had been, it’s unlikely it would have become the juggernaut it is today.


Do we know just how old Azeroth is? More specifically, how long it has been since the Titans were here last? I just did the Arms warrior artifact quest last night, and my *Draenei* warrior was a little bit disconcerted when Master Smith Helgar told him, “This Forge has been working for longer than your race has existed”.

The age of Azeroth and the period of the coming of the Titans is not precisely dated. Going through Chronicle you see words like ‘Ages and ages passed’ or ‘for eons’ but nothing specific for a great many of these events. How long the Black Empire lasted, how long the Elemental Lords fought among themselves, or how long it took the Titan-Forged to subdue the Old Gods and start the Ordering of Azeroth are unknown.

It’s known that the shaping of Azeroth took place before the ‘deaths’ of the Pantheon. It seems likely that the elevation of the Dragon Aspects likewise took place before that, as the Titans’ power was called upon by their Titan-Forged servants, and if they had already started to notice their creators had gone silent they likely wouldn’t have expected to be able to call upon them.

But we really just don’t know. It’s known that a lot of time passed. Enough time passed between the beginning of the ordering of Azeroth and the elevation of the Dragon Aspects (which were created a great long time in the past) for the Keepers to have grown distant and no longer concerned with the day to day workings of the project, necessitating the Aspects creation. And we don’t even know when the Aspects were chosen, exactly.

So it may in fact be possible that the Draenei/Eredar didn’t exist when the Forge in the Halls of Valor was created. In fact, that forge might well predate the Dragon Aspects, since Odyn created the Halls of Valor out of the original Ulduar complex. We’re talking about huge, ill defined swaths of time here.

Or someone wrote an NPC dialog that doesn’t take into account the character’s race, since every other race (even Night Elves) would in fact be indisputably younger than the forge and no one thought to have that NPC determine if you were a Draenei or not. For that matter, it might be unlikely that a Vrykul who’s been trapped in the Halls of Valor since well before the Sundering would even know what a Draenei is.

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